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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 11
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Narcissistic tendencies are present in everyone. Being selfish can be considered a N quality. There is a broad spectrum of NPD from extremely selfish to sociopath and psychopath. It boils down to a lack of empathy and how the N views other people.

extreme narcs view other people like objects to be owned, controlled etc. think a dog who loves it's master unconditionally. No matter what the master does to the dog the dog loves him. That love is called Nsupply. Narcs thrive on it. (note they don't actually even have to get it.... but think they are getting it. ie... he sends a card to a kid and he feels really good about sending the card to the kid... because now he knows the kid will be thinking good thoughts of him.) (caveat to that.. any attention is N supply- so when he pushes your buttons... it's supply)

For me... My XH is a covert N. He is not openly narcissistic by any means. He even had our MC therapist confused. But the red flags were there all along our marriage. He only does things for the kids that will generate some supply for him from either the kid or an audience I call 'his public'. He will attend an awards ceremony so he can get congratulations on having a DD that does very well in school. Take her to the library to do research ... no way, it's not convenient. There is no audience at the library to slap him on the back for being such a good daddy.

Lack of empathy... my XH has no empathy for anyone. I firmly believe he is only capable of a few emotions... anger, calm when he is getting supply and frustration when he isn't... after frustration seee anger or rage. He uses people to get what he wants... He ALWAYS has an agenda, he believes everyone else thinks like him... and has an agenda also. There is no win-win situations with him... he will not be happy until he wins and you lose. And he doesn't care about how many people get hurt in his actions to win... and you lose.

Once his mask fell off and I wan't buying the false person anymore... I was expendable. I truly believe that my purpose in his life was to be his uterus. If he could have had kids on his own... he wouldn't have needed me.


Keep reading lots of very good information here.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4040 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(note they don't actually even have to get it.... but think they are getting it. ie... he sends a card to a kid and he feels really good about sending the card to the kid... because now he knows the kid will be thinking good thoughts of him.)

This is interesting. Mine likes to prove he is a good person, and then talks about what a good person he is.

Example: He took up a collection at work to help pay for a plane ticket for a co-worker to go see his sick mother. Noble, and kind. But he was quick to tell me that that was proof of what a great guy he is.


He ALWAYS has an agenda, he believes everyone else thinks like him... and has an agenda also.

I very much identify him with this statement.


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
PhoenixRisen
Member
Member # 35912
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((WTF)))
I was the one who recommended that book (another SI recommended it to me too).

My ex fit the profile almost to a T... it was like the author was peaking in my window and writing about us. But there are some things that weren't 100% match (like your ex, mine didn't like to be the center of attention at group events, at least not at first. Once he hit 40 his behavior got undeniably worse and it was harder for me to keep making excuses for him (maybe that is typical of co-dependent which I think I have a bit of too) but I didn't realize it was NPD until I filed for D when a friend suggested it... then I got that book, and then he went off the deep end with a few rages and said a few things that were almost quoted from that NL book about what an NPD typically says/thinks. Then I remembered some weird things that happened over the M that, at the time, I thought were my fault (again perhaps co-dep thinking patterns??) like I broke something or lost something and realized he had set traps for me (set things up to break when I touched them) and hidden those objects, I found some in his trunk once) and blamed me for being clumsy or forgetful.

Talk about a fu$king-mind trip

I dont know if your ex is NPD, but even if he has some of those traits its a tough relationship to be in.

PS Zebra duck: NPDs look like a duck, quack like a duck, & walk like a duck, but it's really a zebra playing a duck for everyone else.

Here is a great song (dare I say tribe anthem?? Oh the tribe are us SI's who have/had NPD exs.. we're a good group)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my7sxZ0KfHU&feature=fvwp&NR=1


Posts: 413 | Registered: Jun 2012
CharlieFoxtrot
♀ Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is a tidbit of something I found from Melanie Toni Evans, and thought it could be helpful::

It is important to understand that a narcissist does not return to you because he or she loves you, misses you or is humbly and genuinely repetent. A narcissist comes back to get control of you, so that he or she can gain the upper hand again.

There are two things a narcissist may do when you make it clear that you don't want anything to do with him or her by employing firm No Contact.

He or she may disappear (Usually when they have found another individual to suck narcissistic supply from)

He or she may employ ANY tactic to try and hook you back in.

In my experience with narcissists I have seen a lot of games that a narcissistic will employ to try and drag you back in to the fray.

The worst insult to a narcissist is when you want nothing to do with him or her. A narcissist always wants to believe that every person they have had a relationship with still wants to hang on.

The narcissist wants to believe this person has never recovered, never found anyone as 'wonderful' as his or herself, and will always be available to extract energy from in the future.

Narcissists cannot bear to be discarded, or be meaningless to you.

Narcissists are like crocodiles. They like to store corpses under rocks and go back for a chew at whim when it suits them. They also like to profess that every ex they ever had would have them back in a heartbeat.

The narcissist's ego of course is monstrous, and this makes them feel so important.

I want to list the common tactics a narcissist may use, so that you are aware and can spot them if he or she tries them. (Please note this is not a complete list)

The narcissist may:

Totally ignore you and never contact you, believing that you will be the one that will break and go back to him or her. This is especially true if the narcissist has told you previously. "I know you can't live without me". "I know we are meant to be together, it's just not time yet", or "Its destiny in the future that we will be together". The narcissist has implanted into you the words to make you feel like you are bound to him or her.

Tell you about all the women/men they are seeing that are better than you ever were. This is an attempt to play on your jealousy, loneliness, fears of loss and lack of self-esteem to get you to react.

Using friends, family or children as allies to pass on messages to you about how wonderful the narcissist's life is now, how much the narcissist has changed, or misses and loves you, or proclaiming how bad a person you were in order for you to contact him or her. The narcissist knows you will try to prove your integrity and gain justice.

Feign accountability and admit it's all his or her fault. Promise he or she will go to counselling, get help and get better for you. Profess his or her undying love for you and tell you that the two of you are soul mates and meant to be together. The narcissist knows you may fall prey to believing words that have no substance or action backing them.

Play tit-for-tat games, attempt to discredit your integrity, tell you that he or she uncovered information about your alleged lies or your lack of credibility, and blame you for everything the narcissist did in an attempt to hook you back into an argument where you try to justify yourself.

Remember the narcissist is an empty void without the ability to sustain and supply his or her own good feelings. The narcissist is a tortured self who requires 'attention' from the outside in order to function.

By not responding to any of these attempts you will no longer grant energy to the narcissist whereby he or she can project on to you, manipulate you, or continue to abuse you.

By maintaining strict No Contact you have the ability to break free, heal and empower yourself and build your life to a level where you will never consider playing these painful relationship patterns again.

wanting_to_forgive~ gather your strength and search for truth in everything he says or writes. You'll find a lot of us can relate, so post here often and let those who are further removed from the murk help you.

Nature_Girl~ I am only part of the way through a book by Sandra L. Brown titled Women Who Love Psychopaths, but it is one that is helping me

Here's my favorite NPD song::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtF_eOwvtkY

click, ignore...


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's my favorite NPD song::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtF_eOwvtkY

What a fabulous way to start my day!!!


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
CharlieFoxtrot
♀ Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It always brings a smile to my face!!

I was in Home Depot today, thought of the tribe when I passed by the caulk/stripper aisle... it truly made me wonder if an SI NPD survivor works there....


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine likes to prove he is a good person, and then talks about what a good person he is.

Oh god mine does this too

How!!! I mean how in god's hell can you be a good person if you obliterate your spouses heart over and over again. Good to who? Cause it wasn't towards me


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2251 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, March 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just found this song today. It may have been posted before, but I've been too out of it and busy to keep up. But in case someone needs this one, like me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR7-AUmiNcA&feature=youtu.be


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Coraline
♀ Member
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, March 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you guys give me some advice on dealing with the *other* narcissists in my life? I'm going to be moving back to my hometown, where me RAGING NPD ex-stepmother is still very active in my half-sister's life and my sister's life. I haven't spoken to or been around her in years though, except at my sister's wedding, where we did not speak at all. She is a SERIOUSLY messed up woman, and she was VERY enotionally abusive to me during the 17 years she was married to my father. I don't want to see her, don't want my kids to be around her, etc. But she'll be at birthday parties for my niece's and nephews, and therein lies the problem.

I cannot adequately explain how much damage I feel she dis to everyone in my family. My half-sister is dysfunctional, but her issue is that she's always pretending she's just oh so nice and couldn't hurt a fly and, and would never do anything to hurt anyone's feelings, all while she's being completely obnoxious, sitting on people left and right, and NEVER apologizing - just always acting like it was an accident and she didn't know she was acting like a spoiled brat and then pretending like things never happened. She just cheated on her husband and now they're divorced and she is STILL lying to our whole family about it, even though the OM had her listed on twitter as "my lady" within a week or two of her D being final. I mean, hello, we're not idiots.

My sister who still speaks to her is a MESS. She's trying to get her shit together, and she's doing pretty well now, but she's got 3 kids by 3 different men, none of whom are any good. She dates these total losers and then will NEVER LET THEM GO, no matter how bad they are to her or whatever. Like, even after they break up, she keeps contacting them and says she sees no reason they shouldn't still be "friends" even if the guy cheated on her or was a controlling NPD asshole. She's just a mess. And then, well, I married my husband, so clearly I'm my own hot mess.

I attribute this crap to the abuse we suffered at the hands of my stepmother. I went through a LOT as a young adult. I made bad decisions, dated awful guys. I had no sense of boundaries or any idea how to just LIVE in a normal world, without someone controlling my every move and telling me what to think and reminding me of what a constant disappointment and failure I was. I cannot overstate the horrible impact she had on my life. I was so relieved when my dad finally divorced her.

I've been living away from my hometown all this time, so avoiding her has never been an issue. Now I will be back, and I don't know how to deal with parties. I feel like I can't miss children's bday parties because that would be mean and petty, but I do not wish to be around her. I especially do not wish my children to be around her, because as long as they aren't she can't trash talk them to whoever will listen, which is EXACTLY what she WILL do. I know I shouldn't care, my kids probably won't ever know, but it's just the thought of HOW TOXIC she is. So help me. Can I avoid those parties or is that awful? What can I DO?


Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, March 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nature_Girl~ I am only part of the way through a book by Sandra L. Brown titled Women Who Love Psychopaths, but it is one that is helping me

This is the most powerful book I've read on disorders yet! Pretty scary.


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Coraline,

I've found I've learned a lot in an emotional abuse support group. It's one I found when contacting a domestic abuse center. I recall there was one woman there whose abuser was her mom.

Reading and understanding helps, but being in a group helped me to see myself in what others were experiencing. I found there was a lot of denial in abused women, and I certainly had thick denial.

Good luck!


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, March 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Google daughters of narcissistic mothers.... I bet you find some information.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4040 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
PhoenixRisen
Member
Member # 35912
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, March 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Coraline))
minimize contact as best you can. I have had 3 NPDs in my life (one was female and I think more likely BPD)
Each one cause absolutely chaos and HELL.
The hardest part (for me) was realizing it and not thinking this person was a loved one who loved me and was just treating me badly due to stress.
SO YOU KNOW!
You have so much power having identified this person as NPD.
I'd treat him/her as a drug addict which means zero trust, never turn your back, and of course don't try not to leave your kids unchaperoned.
And any filthy lies the NPD spews is just that: lies; an attempt to manipulate the listener.

Posts: 413 | Registered: Jun 2012
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is starting to freak me out.

I was away for the weekend. Let him come to the house and get some things/feed the dog while I was gone.

My car was in the garage because I rode with a friend. I was just in my car, flipped my visor down and there was a picture of him taped to it with "I love you want_to_forgive" written on it and circled with a heart.

Can you say creepy?

[This message edited by want_to_forgive at 5:34 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
Coraline
♀ Member
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh yuck. You guys don't have kids, right? So you can go hardcore NC other than D-related stuff. I would do that. That is yucky.


Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, we each brought our own to the marriage, his is eighteen and a wonderful kid. Mine is three months from eighteen and also wonderful. The are both graduating from HS in a few months.

Best thing we ever did was not bring another one into the M.

He is currently living with his mom in a house he owns. Still has all of his things in my house. I have a lot to be greatful for. Because we have been through so much, we had already separated a lot of our finances. Two houses, one completely in my name. My car is in my name with low enough payments that I can afford it. I already paid most of the household bills.

Really, it's just a matter of the hearing and then finding it in me to cut him off completely. Even if he isn't on the sociopath end of NPD he is still extremely manipulative.

He came to my work crying today. He told me his blood pressure was through the roof and his heart was racing constantly. I wouldn't talk to him about our marriage but did talk about some of his foo issues. After he left he sent me a text saying "blood pressure back to normal, maybe you should be my counselor." I feel like he is making me responsible for his happiness. How messed up is that when he hasn't cared about mine for all these years.

Plus, he asked me for this divorce! For the second time in seven months!


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I just re-read my last post and am embarrassed by it. Of course he is making me responsible for his happiness. That is the way he operates.

I have been doing more reading and was getting more and more confused. He does have traits that fit NPD, but not as many as I would like to be able to slap that label on him.

Then it hit me. My daughters father, who I was with for eight years, has every one of them. Textbook. He is one of the reasons I have justified staying with my current spouse for so long. Because he isn't as bad as my previous long term partner.

So now I really have to dig deep and find out why I keep doing this to myself. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good book on learning to love yourself?


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
Coraline
♀ Member
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 1:41 AM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oooh, manipulating you with guilt; if you won't be there for him, his health will suffer. Bull crap. My husband never tries to get anyone back. If someone wants to leave him, he doesn't care. BUT he is a master at manipulating me with guilt. I don't know if that's his specialty with everyone or if he just knows it works well with me, but he does it very, very well. You have to ignore it. His health is not your problem, because he's taking it further than his happiness. He's trying to make you responsible for his health.


Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Want_to_forgive,

It seems each subsequent relationship I have gotten into, the person has been less and less NPD. I figure I will one day be free of NPD... hopefully.

I've sent you a PM.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4040 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems each subsequent relationship I have gotten into, the person has been less and less NPD. I figure I will one day be free of NPD... hopefully.

If NPD is a type and we have a type that draws us to them, it is co-dependency I think. I like the book, "Co-dependent No More" a lot. Permission to take care of YOU and not everyone else is a huge step in healing. Defining self care and positive and not selfish. Not justifying or making excuses for why someone's behavior that makes us feel bad is really ok because they "didn't mean it" that way.

Remember the NPD is highly evolved in the ability to be charming and fun and charismatic. They are at the core addicts and need the supply, the ego kibble. That requires social skills and the ability to capture the attention and care from others.

Healing is a process. I find that patterns in my own thinking (when I make excuses for others) are easier to recognize.

((((tribe)))))


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
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