My XH is also covert, he has to keep his public persona intact for his public. Image is everything to this man, he can spin the most unusual thing to make him look good.
Even the affair- it is my fault, because I stopped meeting his needs. Yes I did. With 4 kids to raise, a house to take care of, a husband who wasn't helping much or doing anything to relieve my burden.... yes I stopped adoring him and expected him to lift a finger every now and then. He refused... he worked all day long at a job that paid the bills. I was a SAHM, in his mind I was to do all the work for the house... and I did for the most part...
I'm glad you guys said covert. Yes, it is covert although his family recognizes his NPD.
I just remembered something stupid but meaningful. He will sit down to pee and then he dribbles on the seat. In the beginning I would not look first and sit down on his semi-dried pee drop. I would get so angry and tell him to either lift the seat and stand up to pee or wipe the seat when he was done. It got to the point where I would swear he was peeing on the seat to spite me. Finally he got angry and told me I just needed to check the seat before I sat down. For years now I wipe the seat with alcohol and toilet paper before I can sit down to do my business. In the middle of the night I have to turn on the light and look at the toilet seat It sounds so stupid but really, is this normal?
As for helping with R, after dday 2 he became the model ws - for 6 weeks. When, after the 6 weeks, I triggered he exploded and said "I gave you 6 weeks of doing everything you asked and you aren't over it yet. I've had enough of being your (I can't remember which word he used - it was something derogatory)
Didn't you know you had to heal and forgive on his time.
But don't ask him to forgive you, We divorced in 2003, I was hearing in 2005 about something I did.. in 1985! I don't think he has forgiven me yet.
I understand about the triggering... write out the toilet seat story... and when the next one comes along add that one and keep doing it that way. You will be surprised just how disordered he is. And you might even be able to predict his crazy making behavior. That was my added bonus to doing that exercise.
The memories will come on their own time... write them down.
Warning if you are using a binder you will need a thick one.
if you are using a binder you will need a thick one.
Now he sees me as being as lowly as the rest of the world who fail to be acceptable in his eyes. That transformation happened pretty much overnight. He thought his little fling was the next great narcissistic supply so I was downgraded in his mind to being less than nothing. Not worthy of human treatment. Now that his supply (smartly) took off, the problem now is that I won't "get over it" and finally recognize his greatness again. So something is obviously wrong with me.
I can't believe so many things he has done and said over the years weren't a huge red flag for me. You were either this wonderful person full of greatness or one of the "others" (99.99% of the world). His thoughts on EVERYTHING has always been very black or white. The more I learn about NPD (and the covert NPD my husband is), the more disgusted I am. These are truly some sick individuals.
And THEN I panicked because my much younger son was always empathetic, from a very early age with seeing emotions and offering comfort. My older son is more distant with emotion, a studier of all things including people and I went to a very dark place in my worry. what if.....
Research on the topic led me to solid information that empathy can be taught and that kids often display selfishness to varying degrees. But what if I teach him how to mimic a normal person but he's already broken?? He is smart. Smart enough to learn how to fool a lot of people... How terrible to harbor thoughts like this about your child. And how many places can you have this conversation without being thought crazy, dramatic, foolish, whatever?
I had a really good conversation with DS12 tonight. He is upset with a friend who failed him in a major way. He was expecting an apology from this friend. When no apology came, he was short/abrupt and not friendly at soccer practice. DS shared all of this with me.
We talked about the entire situation. About the failure being a result of cowardice and how that is probably weighing on the friend. And how difficult it would be to apologize for something that you don't or won't change in yourself but aren't proud of? And that the friend is probably hurting for various reasons, including the distance between them and guilt.
I heard myself tell DS that he could give forgiveness without waiting on an apology. That friendship is about caring for someone in spite of their flaws because you judge the friendship on the whole to worth more than the failure.
I had a moment where I applied that to my marriage in my mind.... so I added "and sometimes on the whole, the friendship is NOT worth fighting for and you let it go."
After five minutes DS wails, "Mom! You made me feel bad for friend! What do I do?"
I told him I didn't mean to make him feel bad, only to offer perspective. And that imagining the feelings of others was a valuable skill. As for what to do? Act normal. Be friendly.
DS says he's going to make things right tomorrow.
I am happy because .... well, it sounded an awful lot like empathy. HUGE sighs.
I worry about ws 4 boys. Two show signs of NPD, one is overly sensitive and the youngest is on the fence but I know he feels emotions just doesn't act on them.
I know I have taught ws how to appear to have a heart. I have had to coach him through dealing with employees because he used to have ones that would leave the company without notice and then bad mouth the company. They did it because they knew they weren't valued as people.
So his second "sneak" hearing was supposed to be this morning, but he didn't confirm or serve me. So I'm not going. But to be sure, I check the website, and what should I see on the PO case?
He filed to DISMISS it.
I'm raging mad right now, and sort of amused at the same time. He's going to trial, (someday,) for breaking it, admitting he did it, (to the COPS who arrested him!) and has broken it 3 times total with the third break in the hands of the prosecutor - and he wants to DISMISS IT?? I hate that his sister is helping him. I'm going to go through even MORE hell with this crap now.
So if I'm not served, AGAIN, there will be nothing done. But he's busy filing motion after motion on these cases, divorce and PO, so.... I'm not home all weekend.
[This message edited by SoHurt at 8:23 AM, April 19th (Friday)]
He is arrogant, isn't he?
I am hoping the prosecutor has an ego that matches your X's arrogance.
When he knows he can't win my X works very hard to wear me down. because when I give up, in his mind, he wins.
Hoping you get time to rejuvenate this weekend.
Oh, and yesterday, my oldest told me that N's sister had called his brother to ask if she could serve him so he could be a witness for the Monster. I swear, the man has the nerve of the devil himself. Or IS the devil himself.
Time to get really active in nailing this crap.
What a nightmare! Your son as a witness for him? Zero in as much as you can this weekend. Prayers and hugs, and hope that this will be over soon.
I guess I have gotton suckedin by NPD more than once. My ex husband quit his job to devote his time to pulling "legal" things on me in court. After about 18 months, the judge for the case called him an asshole ( off the record) and his attorney dumped him.
These guys can be relentless PIA.
in other news.. nothing I guess. my NPD has mostly disappeared. Obviously he thinks he is still hurting me. And he is :/ But he has gotton no reaction from me, no attempt to contact him. So I am doing NC ok, I just feel miserable.
Kajem that healing and forgiving thing.. it would be a heck of a lot easier to forgive if these guys were nto kicking up such a screaming fuss about the time it takes and what they need to do. It's all I heard from my ex.
I would like to see how HE would handle being cheated on, stolen from, his fiance getting pregnant by another man and then hiding the pregnancy, hiding the baby, all while the man who got her pregnant was harrassing him, making fun of him, mocking him, laughing at him, AND his fiance was threatening to leave him if HE didn't shut up and take it and BE HAPPY and treat her well at the same time.
I'm praying for you and your kids.. lighting candles too.
Call everyone who needs to know this crap is going down. Don't let his actions fall thru the cracks. Right now he thinks it is you against him in a game of court. What he doesn't know, his arrogance is causing others to join you. You are building a team. maybe he does, which is why he wants to subpoena your son?
You're right, time to nail this down on all legal fronts.
Forgiveness... hmm.. I have forgiven my XH... some. I think I am accepting of things, which in my mind, since I am not angry anymore is forgiveness.
Although I will never be able to forgive him for what he did to our kids. THAT I am SURE of and I keep that thought very close to my heart, and my anger boxed up in a treasure chest. Lest I forget and (sometime in the future) give him the benefit of doubt. I want to remember this is what he is capable of.
I have accepted what he did to me.... and it has been 10 years since we divorced. But I don't ever want to let my guard down again around him.
I decided to make a little list of some of the little things that used to have me thinking *wtf was that?* and wanted to share a couple...
~after spending the day at the beach, pool or waterpark, he would make the same comment every time: "I've been looking all day, and surprisingly you are the most attractive woman here today."
~He would do something, anything, to wake me up in the middle of the night when I was exhausted already. When we fought, it was relentless and incessant, sometimes lasting for hours at a time (like 13) Brainwashing 101.
~He would give all sorts of "assignments" for me to do, then badger me about other things so that I couldn't get them done, then explain my incompetence to me.
I think that the more we share with each other, the more healthy our perspective becomes. I had the hardest time first admitting that he was NPD, but now I sit back and wonder how I never saw it to begin with.
[This message edited by CharlieFoxtrot at 9:47 AM, April 19th (Friday)]
However, the reason I was posting so early is that something loud woke me up. I assumed I'd been dreaming that someone had closed the door to the apartment, as it sounded similar. Then a while ago, I looked at my van.
It has a new dent in the door.
Now, I've had the extinguisher box outside disabled, the light and siding broken, my gas siphoned and now this dent. I don't feel like this is coincidental. Not at all. I'm waiting to hear back from the officer who was here the day the Monster showed up. I'm so mad I could spit nails. NONE of my neighbors are getting vandalized. Just ME.
The best thing about today so far is I got a consult appt with an atty specializing in DV cases. It's only 3 days before the hearing I haven't been served for to dismiss the PO, but at least I have a free hour with her. Then I have one on the 6th with an atty who comes to our dv shelter once a month.
I want so badly for this all to end! I'm tired of finding new damage to my apartment and van. This has got to stop. I just can't afford any cameras or anything to help catch whoever is doing it.
I wish you lived closer... you could stay with me. I have about 7 cops in my neighborhood. And I feel protected because they all work odd hours .. someone is always on the night shift and driving by.
Just got off the phone with DS5. Apparently XN is seeing his behavior too now and realized his methods don't f'n work. So he was in the background telling DS to tell me what he did to W's sister's dog. and kept saying "and what else?" "And what else?"
I asked DS5 what he was feeling or thinking when he hurt the dog. He doesn't know. I reminded him he thinks of our dog as his brother, that when he was mean to the dog, he was hurting someone's sister... that he is a sweet, kind, loving boy who tells really funny jokes and loves to make people smile by helping others and sharing, and when he sees people and animals happy that makes him feel good, that being mean doesn't make him feel good.
We talked about nice things he does, he named some off. I said that was good and so to do those things, that it would make him feel better.
XN is a narcissitic moron totally devoid of love, ALL about control, and involved with a 5yr old who is gonna try to emulate him. What the fuck does he expect?!
I get so angry when I have to remind DS what real love is like, what compassion and kindness is like. He was NOT raised to be this boy!!!
And I (almost) understand XN and can tolerate that.....but for there to be a FEMALE in the house that's the same way! For her to be such a bitch to DS and only show affection towards her blood kids, well it's sickening.
How can any woman look at any kid and not want to help them grow as good people? I just don't understand that.
The positive part of this story is it is the first time in 5 years XN has realized he's over his head and had DS speak to me about correcting a behavior. His solution has been control, fear, and manipulation of course always, and it's only made the problems grow worse over the past several months. I'm hoping for a turn around soon!
Co-parenting with a narcissist is a living hell.
Co-parenting with a narcissist is a living hell.
I take it a step further, and I think you and your son did the same thing in your phone call. My take on co-parenting with the Narc... there is none.. it is RE-PARENTING. on account Narcs don't parent they are parasites sucking supply from their offspring. How can you parent when your cultivating supply... the N wants to be the good parent, the fun parent, the parent that the kids do not get mad at..And they twist themselves to be that parent.
Only that isn't parenting... it's called being a codependent friend.
Really, how can you expect someone who has the emotional intelligence of a toddler be a parent! It just doesn't work.
on another thread it is referred to as : Parenting with a lower muppet.
Parenting with a lower muppet.