I was asked once why I wasn't more open about things that bothered me during counseling. My response was that anything I brought up would be brought up as something I was doing wrong in 3-6 months even though I wasn't doing it. He listens to my "complaints" not to give him guidance of things to change, but instead to store those items away in his mental toolbox so that down the line he can pull them out again and throw them at me.
And years later they will still be pulling that item out of their tool box to throw at you. I never could figure out how he could do that when he said he forgave me. He never could forgive, he doesn't know how. And he doesn't want to learn... because holding things over your head is working for him. When he brings it up, (usually in an argument about something else) you have a WTF? moment and it throws you off balance (not to mention off topic) for a bit. You being off balance, he wins control at that time...and to him winning control is winning. And he must win at all costs.
Can you tell, I have been fully integrated into the collective by the covert N?
Keep reading all you can on covert N's... it will make your eyes
and anyone or anything else...
I've been doing some digging online!
I found a profile from a few years ago when he was with an ex ex ex and there was an argument visible. I couldn't believe what I was reading and just how sick he was acting.
If anyone is interested it is below.
It seems every relationship he has had has ended badly, with the ex not wanting to have anything to do with him! I wonder why! She also accuses him of manipulation and guilt tripping her.
His post on a journal site....
Yeah i thought so
WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! oh cry me a fucking river you prat.
Yes ladies and gentlemen im going to change my career choice in a attempt to spite someone....it doesnt matter if i have decided im not happy doing what i originally set out to do.
I mean if i change my career choice OMFG!!! That would be unheard of!!. after all no one in history has EVER wanted to do something similar to anyone else. We have one brick layer...one painter BUT WOAH"!!! FUCK OFF IF THE BRICK LAYER WANTS TO TRY PAINTING!
I think you can get the jist. Its rather amusing and yet sad that someone can just make you out YET AGAIN to be the one in the wrong. Im quite happy getting on with my life and seeing where it will take me. Its fun and its exciting. But when someone wants to come back from the past...bare in mind they are acting hypocritical in this situation...i find it very VERY funny.
Anyone remember this?
"Its amazing how easy it can be to erase someone from your life...and its amazing how reluctant some people are to let go"
you may all laugh now
Grow up kid
and the argument...
Her: I can see that someone has been running to you with what I say.
All I can say is they must have less of a life than I do :)
And I'm not being hypocritical, I'm fully aware that my rant was childish, I even stated that in what I wrote (*gasp* shock, horror) but at the end of the day, its my journal, I shall write whatever the hell I like. I stand by every single world I said, and I'd say in again in a second.
So bite me :)
Him: oh and if you would like to discuss this more you know my MSN and you know my house/mobile number. If you feel you would like to actually sort all this out then im willing to.
If not? ahhh well enjoy life and hope you achieve everything you are aiming for.
BTW. Your post proves you never understood anything about my drama :)
Her: Actually since I'm on a roll here, I didn't want to come back from the past; I'm just annoyed that you felt content to slag me off to all and sundry when I did nothing but be honest. Pestering my friends when our relationship had fuck all to do with them. Telling them to look after me. Trying to guilt trip ME so I'd feel sorry for you and come back. And you acting all buddy-buddy with people you freely slagged off.
So I'm not the hypocrite here sweetheart, you are. I'm just sorry I didn't say all of this sooner.
Him: *bites* Am i conforming to your wishes?
What can i say? if you didnt start slagging me off and inventing arguments i wouldnt have posted this. Like sticking your head in a hungry lions mouth and feeling shocked when it bites.
Quite strange. Before you started slagging me off...after a month may i add i thought hostility was dying down. Well seems some people just like to have conflict. However it has now dawned on me that this EX boyfriend before me was probably a really nice guy that just fell victim of hatred and malicious rumour. Ahh bless. I suppose you have to invent hatred in order to feel happy.
ahhh happy times.
P.S dont worry im not going to the media careers day...i have more pressing things to worry about with the gig and radio night. Sorry to deprive you of a target for your hatred.
Have a good day baby girl xxxx
Her: You know nothing about my previous relationship. Nothing.
And with reference to the hostility dying down, how can it die down when you post negative things about me where you know I'll see them?
I don't invent hatred. And I'm perfectly happy. But whats the point in telling you that when you'll probably come out with some long-drawn out reason about how unhappy I am?
Okay possibly in bad taste that was applied but nevertheless i do wonder.
I post negative things when someone else posts negative things about me. You posted a negative post about me...i retaliated. Thats just how it goes.
I wouldnt come out with a long drawn out reason for you being unhappy. In fact i am glad you are happy. I truely am and im not taking the piss.
Why should i bother trying to convince you that you are unhappy...What im merely saying is that it sometimes feels you need a reason to hate me.
Glad your happy
Her: Oh btw if its not much trouble i would like to pick up my Sims game sometime in easter. If not i can wait longer.
Her: I'm in Newquay over Easter. I can post it to you if you like, either at uni or your house address.
Him: Naaa its cool. Ill be in Chelt for a bit over easter. Was kinda a passing through thing. And im like you. I dont trust the post...someone has sticky fingers and i dont fancy them having sticky fingers with 45 quids worth of CD's. im in no great hurry to get it. It was more of a "before i forget"
If you would like to talk you know the number/hotmail
And she didn't reply.
I could not believe what I read!!!
Does or did anyone else feel the need to go digging for information like this as I do?
After my XH left, I was beside myself a single mother to 4 (not yet teen) kids. I didn't work, I knew what a controlling jerk regarding money he could be while married. I knew my life was about to be made a living hell. And he left me with 4 kids and no way to support them. My career field was left in another state when we moved for HIS career. I capitulated some stuff in the divorce so that it could get done so that money would start coming into the household. His parents were supporting my kids and I while he was living at their house.
I survived, my kids survived.
A year after XH left, I met XSO... we were friends supporting each other thru BS hell. I know a whole lot about his marriage,the beginning, middle and end... because we were friends first. That relationship ended last year, when he discovered he wanted to play house with a 26yo coworker/intern he was mentoring. He was 53. My DD's whom he helped raise thru their teen years... were 21. It is just a little too much ick factor.
I wasn't as much of a mess as I was when XH left. Because I had been thru the mill and lived to tell the tale. I didn't have to dismantle my life for XSO like I did with XH. I don't know. I do know in some ways XSO's betrayal was emotionally worse, than XH's. But XH's betrayal was more cruel. XSO was betrayed by his wife, so he knew exactly how I would be feeling.. and yet he betrayed me. Something I never thought he would be capalble of. And if I talked to him today (which I don't and won't) he would still be full of regrets.. but then nothing would change. Because he cannot/will not do the work necessary to answer the why's. It's one of the reasons his wife gave for her unhappiness in their marriage, early on in their marriage.
With a lot of work on myself I can see some of why I attracted these men to me and why I was attracted to them. My XH was not what my GF's (back then) called 'my type'. XSO would have been my type -back then. The crux of that was.. I had changed in ways I am still figuring out.
You need to ask yourself why you felt attracted to him? why you ignored a bunch of red flags and kept coming back? Why did you compromise so much of yourself to be with this person especially when you now know exactly who he is? Why do you keep focusing on him? - I know the answer to that one.. but do you?
I have some of my answers... not all of them and the one's that I have gotten, are being worked on... so that I can make a healthier choice when and if the time comes that I decide to date someone besides myself.
It is hard work to look at all the personality imperfections that we have. And like any blemish we try to hid with make up so it isn't noticeable. But that blemish we are hiding is actually a wart and like any wart it needs to be excised by it's root or it just keeps manifesting itself over and over again. I am working my way toward the root. It's hard work... I won't lie to you. But once I am finished with it... I will be blemish free and healthier than I have ever been.
I wish the same for us all.
[This message edited by Kajem at 10:12 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]
I don't know why I feel such a strong need to do this. I think maybe it is because I need to build more of a picture. I need more information to justify that I am right and that he is as sick and twisted as I believe him to be. It's almost like an obsession for me at the moment.
It does really hurt to think that they cheated and lied when they knew what you had already been through, in your case your marriage and in my case my previous relationships.
I know I have a lot of work to do on myself but I don't know where to start. Right now my head is so muddled and I feel I will never recover from this.
I have no idea why I keep focusing on him. Maybe because it is all still pretty fresh and I am trying to work it out in my head.
I was attracted to him physically from the start. I think this was helped by the picture he managed to build of himself before I even met him in person. I was told or spun a story rather that his exes had cheated on him, had hurt him badly and that he felt he wasn't good enough for anyone. I really believed him to be decent at first.
I ignored the red flags because as time went on I had started to develop strong feelings or him. I believed his bullshit about being scared to be hurt again and scared of commitment. I thought I could change him.
I think I stay with people who are no good for me because I fall into a trap. They all seem so lovely at first. I have been cheated on in one way or another in all of my 4 relationships. All I really want is someone who gives as much as I do. I don't know why this keeps happening.
I get it, I really do. I am sitting here craving contact with XSO, sitting on my hands, posting like crazy here and a couple (several ) other forums, as well as doing a program for healing from N abuse. All so I can figure out why this urge is so strong right now. I will not contact him...No Contact = No New Hurts. I learned that the last time I contacted him... in October of last year. I have struggled here and there with contact.. but the urge this time is much stronger. I am probing myself trying to figure out why?
I figured I take you on my journey with me.. and ask you the why questions I am asking myself.
I know why you feel the way you do... it is like a drug addiction of sorts. You know he is bad for you... but some part of it makes you feel good. and there are studies that back this up with brain chemicals. You have to keep the end goal in mind, you want him out of your life.. and taking steps to do that is your short term goals right now.
Withdrawals suck... but keep in mind a healthier happier you.... and take the steps to get there.
I intend on keeping NC... how about you?
I am really irritated with myself tonight. I was talking to a friend about this earlier. Considering I know what a complete asshole he is and no good will ever come from being involved with him, this should be so easy. But it isn't. It is like a drug, you are right. It has been all along with him. With his commitment issues and blowing hot or cold. It makes you crave the attention from them even more.
The last I heard from him, he said he was upset that I put the teddy in the box that I gave to him, that it had my scent on it and it made him sad and that he had a parcel delivered for me that day (yesterday) which was a vintage zippo lighter. I don't really believe he did. Obviously trying to make me feel guilty. He gave me the link to the lighter. It was ebay and was ebay and whoever bought one bought it on the 1st July. He said he bought it before the bust up. Ha yeah right. How thick does he think I am.
Why do you think you still feel the need to contact him after all this time Kajem?
it had my scent on it and it made him
Wait for it!
I'm becoming convinced there's a direct correlation between caulk guns and this NPD tool (that attempts to hook our empathy).
Until I can figure it out, I'll just give it the caulk gun award for now:
I even told XH once.. he now struts around like a peacock. Little does he know... the meaning isn't what he thinks it is. Shh... let it be our little secret.
I don't know. Which is why I keep posting all over SI. and a bunch of other places.
One friend pointed out that XSO was my safety net (especially with NPDXH) And that may be it. But I am sitting with it and probing my feelings and digging deep into the question of Why?
I am good at distracting myself and I will keep doing that till the urge passes. I know it will eventually. I just have to hold out till then..
This is why they flee from it.
They are DRIVEN to this.
It's an ingrained impulse.
Like caulk guns.
I was wondering if anyone here has the name of any books they might recommend on NPD? T I think I need some help on to how to figure this all out.
Thanks so much.
What is the caulk reference?
It's the same for me. I think I'm scared of losing another part of my life. I just noticed you said 'covert n' in a prev post. I had overlooked this before and never did any reading on this type because I didn't know it existed. I have read a little, and OH MY GOD. It make a lot of sense!!!!
Covert narcissists are usually too afraid to exhibit any of their accomplishments to others and they commonly underestimate their own capabilities. Their overt behavior projects an innocent, angel-like, good as gold persona which builds them a credible and faultless reputation yet they fail to reach their true potential due to their own self-doubt.
Closet/stealth narcissists repress awareness of their narcissistic traits due to their inner conflict, deep down inside they find their fantasies embarrassing and unacceptable. Deep down inside they realize that their fantasies are ultimately self-centered and are to solicit goodness and power to one's self; to put one's self up on a pedestal, above all others.
Make sense given his sick sexual tendencies.
There is tons of stuff online about it. A good book apparently is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Narcissistic-Lovers-Cope-Recover-Move/dp/0882822837/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372870308&sr=8-1&keywords=narcissists+lovers
This thread is also a really good source of information.
Hopefully, between the two, I will be able to figure out if he really IS narcissistic, or just selfish and self-absorbed with a tendency to quick temper!
I have this fear that I am over-reacting and that he is actually completely normal with normal anger, but I just don't KNOW. How does one know?!
Narcs have no empathy. None what so ever. They may mirror it... but it is usually after the someone else's emotions have clued them in as to what emotion is acceptable or normal.
A win at all costs is another trait. My X and NW hate me so much (10 years later) they will still use the children as pawns in their game to win. (There is no game, we have been divorced for 10 years they have been married just as long) Any opportunity to hurt me no matter what collateral damage the kids will have to endure, is ok with them. Even at the expense of their own relationship with the children. So long as I suffer, it's all good in their eyes.
Blameshifting is an art form with them. As is gaslighting..and just plain making everything to be Your fault... even his decision poop in the second bath is your fault. My XH actually put "I know you, Kajem, are responsible for all the hurricanes that hit florida in 2004, as well as Katrina... they all happened on my time with the children." He actually put that in an email to me, with a cc to his attorney, my attorney and the court. You could put it down to him being mad, except my X actually believes it. He is also an attorney, so he knew who would see it and where it would be filed.
I am glad someone thinks I am that powerful...
[This message edited by Kajem at 1:23 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]
I think the need to "win" is key. And to destroy the BS. Once we mirror the negative truth about them the mirror must be broken.
The complete lack of empathy. The emotions are put on for the audience. The difference between feeling sad and acting sad, feeling happy and acting happy.
I don't know about proud though? Seems like that is one emotion that looked genuine, although it came with some puzzlement as well because no one else was as proud of whatever accomplishment as he was...
@Hurt, the caulk gun reference is a tribe joke, as several of the N's collected them, and many of us had to throw away their stuff, including multiple old half used caulk guns. An odd coincidence and we joked perhaps it could be a diagnostic tool.