I don't get why I am still holding on after I finally see all these things and so much more.
The million dollar question that only you can answer.
Get the book The New Codependency. Read it. You will see a lot of yourself in it. You may find keys to help you break out of this funk you're in, and probably have been a good portion of your life, as I have.
You sound like a great guy....very generous, loving and nurturing....but it also sounds like-as I did- you're trying to "love" this woman back into the M, and you're trying to "fix" everything on your own.
You need also to implement the 180 RIGHT FUCKING NOW. You will only become more frustrated and crazy if you don't.
Get a grip on who you are as a man, as a human being. You have gone so far over what you should have to put up with concerning this very unremorseful WW of yours....at some point you are going to have to put your foot down.
I know it's hard...we all do. But it must be done if you want any peace in your life....peace in yourself.
Book and 180. Those are your first two baby steps.
Do it now.
Here for you, man.
She seems to have always been one foot out of this marriage!
1) Get into IC asap
2) See a lawyer, figure out your rights
3) Separate finances. Open your own account where she has no access to it, the checks or debit card for it. I would stop putting money in the joint account, especially if its for bills. I've seen too many times on SI where a BS put only "what was needed" in the joint account never dreaming the WS would blow that money. Guess what? They did exactly that almost every time. Pay the bills directly and put pocket money at best in the joint account. If she pushes back then you can always remind her that she maintained her own account so you're simply following her example.
Look, I'm gonna go back to my original point: you are making some of this thing too complicated and it's only going to end up tying you into fucking knots. All those details that you keep going over in order to convince yourself that your wife is (and probably has been for quite some time) totally fucked up in the head? Un-fucking-neccisary. The fact is that you're wife has chosen to betray you, the one man in the world that she is supposed to care about and protect above all others, in the most horrific way possible. That is all the info anyone needs as evidence that she most definitely has some seriously fucked up thought processes. All the other shit in your relationship, the kids, your work, extended family? All that shit is illuminating but ultimately can start to become a whole fucking mess of trees obstructing your view of the fucking forest.
Your WW's affairs are the singular pivotal number one issue that needs to be addressed and handled right now. You get lost in all of this other shit and you open the door to letting the discussions you need to be having with her get fucking sidetracked and deflected. Which I guarantee you is exactly what she would very much like to see happen. Do you want to see all of the conversations that start off with talking about her affair end with you arguing about some other petty and ultimately probably debatable issues from your marriage? Or would you rather talk about the central, mammothly important and completely objectively and unarguably fucked up and detestable actions on your WW's part? Laser fucking focus on the central issue at hand is what is called for at this stage of the game. Go ahead and let her try to defend the indefensible, even the most muddle headed WS is gonna have a hard time pulling that off when the harsh light of reality is truly and totally focused on their actions.
As to the subject of divorcing your wife... Look, neither I not anyone else on this site know for certain if that is the path you ultimately need to take. We don't know this woman, you do. I would suspect that she must have SOME redeeming qualities that drew you to marry her in the first place. Unless she has been an Oscar caliber actress for your entire relationship, logic would dictate that that person is still inside of her somewhere. There are really only two questions here: A. Wether it is possible to dig that person back out from under the pile of shit it's burrowed itself under. And B. Just how much pain humiliation and bullshit you are willing to put yourself through to get there if it even is possible. Those questions are gonna differ from situation to situation. Only you can ultimately answer them when it comes to yours.
Either way though you need to have a serious fucking reset with your WW. You need to figure out what you need to see from her in order to make this relationship work. You need to explain to her, as clearly and as simply as possible, in plain fucking english, and as focused as a fucking laser beam exactly what those needs are. And then you need to make her understand exactly what the stakes are: namely divorce. And probably most importantly: you have got to fucking mean it. Let me repeat.
You have got to fucking mean it.
If you go into a conversation like that with the idea that you are going to get the reaction you want from her, if you go into it like its a fucking negotiation... If you attempt an ultimatum talk that is anything other than the simple and calm explanation of your steadfast and resolute intentions? If your motivations are anything other than simply giving her the heads up as to what your deal breakers are? Then you might as well put POSOM's dick right back into her mouth yourself. I kid you not.
She is simply not going to do the work neccisary to fix this shit unless the stakes become high enough for her.. The work she needs to do involves hard painful introspection, it involves ownership of some pretty fucked up behaviors, it involves empathy and it involves hard work. Some one with her level of disfunction is simply NOT going to sign on for all of that unless the personal stakes are high enough. Unless something they care enough about is on the fucking line. Trust me, I am a recovering alcoholic, so I got an idea about this kind of fucked up thinking from some very painful personal experience. There is a reason they call it Rock Bottom.
After you have your reset? Well, then its time to sit back, 180 and see just what she does about it. There's a chance she will pull her head out of her rectum and get with the program. There's probably about an equal chance that she won't do a single thing differently than she is now. Either one of those will tell you everything you need to know about what kind of person she is. It will also tell you just how important being with you is to her. If the answer to that is "not important enough to do the hard work"? Well then is that someone you really want to be with in the long run?
Look, I know how hard this shit can be. Trust me, my story is as fucked up as anyone's on this site. I am sorry you are here, but if this was gonna happen I am happy that you have found us all here at SI. It can be a lifesaver. Truly.
As a side note, while the betrayed men threads can be a great resource and a real comfort for us BH's... I can't help but notice this is the only place you are posting. I would strongly urge you to branch out a bit. Read the healing library, start your own posts in Just Found Out and General. You will find some great and very helpful info and people in those places. By all means hang out here as well but I wouldn't make us exclusive.
Strength, wisdom, happiness and peace to you brother.
[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 10:47 AM, December 28th (Friday)]
[This message edited by Confusedmnman at 9:40 AM, December 31st (Monday)]
i think a short amount of time and distance will show you that you dont need to be married to her in order to love her.
The fondness can reside in a corner of your heart, until its no longer necessary to keep it there, or more accurately, until something else needs the room.
The truth is, you were together for a long time, there were good times and great memories. The easy thing to do is to demonize the whole thing, to say she is a monster, and wrap it all up in a box labeled "Evil, Don't open".
But those are YOUR memories, your past, so why burn the good?
And then one day you will meet someone who reminds you of those good times, and will show you that even your worst times can be as good or better than your best times of days past, when spent in the right company.
Or even better yet, you'll find all that in yourself.
Regarding PhatDaddy's deal with _Pretty Woman_, I would have led with this gem by SG:
Wasn't that movie about a whore? I admit I've never seen it but that sounds kind of like how you'd expect an exchange with a high class whore to go.
The best thing I ever did in plotting my recovery was to stop expecting my wife to make sense or to be someone I could rely on.
SLH just said it (again) up-thread:
The key to recovery (IMHO) is to stop thinking like a team. That comes later. Reconciliation comes later. Understand yourself as a free agent. Realize that everything you're thinking in the short term is habitual thought patterns rooted in a reality that no longer exists -- you know, the one where your wife was faithful, on your team, and had your best interest at heart.
That's all bullshit. Any WW who tries to convince you otherwise is trying to keep her safety net in place while *she* decides what she's going to do.
Fuck that noise. I mean it.
I will be the first in line to say that you can reconcile a marriage after infidelity. You can. I'm living it. You stop thinking about it. You heal. But all of that is just pissing down a hole until you work on re-discovering yourself, on staying because you want to rather than because you're forced to.
Stop pining for the "love of your life" that your wife was before she started riding random cocks. She was a fantasy you created in your own head. That's what you're in love with...and if you had the courage to split from your wife today, there's a better than 90% chance that you would replace all of the wonderful, unique bits that you luuuuuv so much about your cheating wife with some other woman within a year. Srsly. Compatibility is not that hard to stumble over.
We spend so much time holding ourselves to some ideal husband standard, even while we're pissed off -- can't give her a reason to doubt me, to think she really did deserve to cheat, to maybe be tempted to look elsewhere again. Got to bring my A game. Got to restore comfort/sanity/luuuurv to the marriage so things can go back to normal.
If your WW is willing to walk away because you don't have your A game handy a few weeks after she was fucking anybody who told her that her breath didn't stink, then you need to let her walk. You need to separate the fantasy of the woman you married from the dumb slut you're actually married to.
You need to demand more of yourself than settling for the girl you don't take home to mama. Yes, there's more to your wife than being the slutty, good-time girl she was during the A. Yes, she's a fully-formed human being who is more than who she's been fucking (blah, blah, blah -- don't care.)
Point is: she needs to prove that she's worthy of you. You need to demand that she's worthy of you...and if neither side of that satisfies you, you need to be willing to walk.
If your wife is a dumb slut, stop trying to talk yourself out of her being a dumb slut. Accept that she's a dumb slut, understand her for who she is, and decide from there if that's enough for you. Plenty of men have been happily married to dumb sluts for generation upon generation. It's when you settle for a dumb slut but actually wanted more that you start to feel unsatisfied.
If you let all of those soggy, feelings-based memories of your fantasy wife cloud your ruminations, you'll never get a clear idea of what you deserve. You'll settle for less than her best effort to make amends (or worse, you'll settle for "effort" instead of "achievement" -- remember, kids, the grade of "E" is what they gave the kids too stupid to earn even an honest "F".)
When your wife shows you who she is, believe her. Agree with what she's revealing about herself...and get busy with the business of healing yourself and deciding what you want for your future. From the moment she opened her legs, you became a free moral agent.
Sure, she'll make demands of her own, usually about you continuing to occupy the same sort of husbandly roles and duties that she walked away from during her A (and likely during the first part of any sort of reconciliation while she's getting IC, "focusing on herself", doing her "self-healing" and whatever else). She'll probably even get strident about it, carping about how you expect to fix the marriage if you don't put any effort into it. My point is that she's jumping the gun. You're jumping the gun.
Don't default to reconciliation as though divorce is the alternative if shit doesn't work out.
A cheating wife is a get out of jail free card. It's a slate-wiping opportunity to re-evaluate your entire life and decide what works, what doesn't, and what can/should get tossed. Why? Because no one blames a guy for divorcing his slut wife.
You will never again in marriage (hopefully) have a stronger bargaining position for demanding and deserving what you want out of life.
Don't settle for less than you can be just to save your marriage.
World of WarCraft cock drops:
Cock of the Whale
Mercenary Cock of the Prophet
Feverflare Cock of the Monkey
Spirit Cock of Eluding
Rockslab Cock of the Necromancer
Bandit Cock of the Elder
Star Wars: The Old Republic cock drops:
Fervor Dread Cock
Anti-Armor Vile Strategist Cock
Rakata Cock of Vicissitude
Mandalorian Raider Cock
Repulsive Annihilator Cock
Old School AD&D random cock drops:
Cock, Cursed Backbiter
Cock of Berserking
Cock of Delusion
Cock of Vermin
Cock of Strangulation
Flask of Cocks
The ultimate random cock drop:
THE COCK OF VECNA.
Sorry, carry on.
You da MAN!
You are right on so many levels with that post!
That's exactly what my thought process is right now: Fuck that shit. I didn't-don't-ain't gonna- deserve that bullshit, and I'm not living with it any longer!
My priority is me and my kids ( even though she says this whole 8 months of fake R has been all about ME, anyway....ok, sure...whatever).
Tomorrow evening we tell them that I'm moving upstairs, so that we can give each other space. The boys (15,18) are smart...they'll know this is the beginning of the end, but I'm not making a big deal out of this IH Separation deal...so they won't, either. They know "what time it is."
By May, I'll be out, the house will be on the market, and my wife will be free of having to deal with the whole situation....and I will be free to continue to find out what makes me tick and start living my life with a whole new spirit and perspective.
Never again will I allow a relationship define me, except my relationship with God.
I can't wait. If I had the money, it would already be a done deal.
DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
Sorry, carry on.
I just finished a playthrough of the original Torchlight. Diablo clones aren't really my thing, but that was pretty old school fun.
Happy New Year, guys.
Me, finally living the life that was intended. Guard up!
Brain at full attention! and my boys and God at my side.
Honor, dignity, humble pride. What men should be made of.
I told her that we should be up front with them, that the lesser deal we make over it, the lesser deal THEY will make over it. I don't want them imagining anything right now, and I want to protect them as much as I can.
We agreed that we would tell them tonight.
We are all home. Me and the boys have been watching the football game, and she has disappeared into the bedroom, reading one of her paperback novels.
I don't want to be a pushy bastard that can't wait another day to move out of the BR, but I don't get why she doesn't want to go ahead and get this over with, either. I mean, it's obvious to me that she is ready for us to move on as much as I am. I just don't get it.
Guess I'm gonna have to go ask her, and risk being the pushy bastard.
Tomorrow I tell her that we will tell them together, or I will tell them myself. I'm not going to drag this shit out for any reason...I've been living in limbo long enough already.
It just sucks that I'm the one that has to move upstairs, away from the comforts of my master bedroom, when I haven't done anything (A). But I just can't stand to even be in the same bed with her. She snores.
Thank God that I learned how to start detaching. It has made this so much easier. I'm finding that, the more I learn about myself, and start putting me first, the less I'm able to tolerate a lot of the bullshit that I've been putting up with the last eight months....NINE months.
I noticed last night that, while we were talking about what we've learned about ourselves, she was talking to me differently...almost like she does when she's talking to someone she really doesn't know and wants to come across very professionally. My God, I really don't know this woman anymore at all, and I don't think she knows me as well as she thinks she does.
But I'm doing ok....spent the evening with the boys, watching football and cracking jokes. Lots of fun. Too bad she had to go spend her evening on her little island.