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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

calliing herself a sex ninja (look it up) , telling him she had two orgasms with him

Two whole orgasms huh? Sounds like she attended a Buy A Belt sex ninja academy.

Sorry your wife is being a bitch and is back to cheating. Go get a lawyer ASAP.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7101 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@jjct

the only measure I have for true remorse is within me. As in: how would I feel? what would I do? - if I were the cheater.

Since, in my imagination, *I* wouldn't avoid accountability - it's beyond me how remorse could be anywhere near true without it, kwim?

Exactly the way I think about it too. It's the part of me she likes to call "unforgiving". Maybe she's right, I am unforgiving. Or maybe, just maybe I saw all of her ugliness that she's so good at hiding, and decided to be smarter about it this time and give her a thorough vetting process rather than just believing in her like I did before.

At the end of the day, there's so many things to forgive because of the massive disrespect involved, it comes down to a fundamental question we need to ask ourselves. Can I forgive her?

Some guys rugsweep it and move on. Some guys instantly tell her to fuck off and get out. A lot of us fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes, wanting to forgive her, not knowing if we can, and looking for clues and insight into how she really thinks and feels.

If you like what you see, good for you. Move past it, forgive her, be happy. I couldn't do it.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
tfkeel
♂ New Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the end of the day, there's so many things to forgive because of the massive disrespect involved, it comes down to a fundamental question we need to ask ourselves. Can I forgive her?

When it happened to me (27 years ago) I was very confused about "forgiveness" and what that actually means.

I grew up in a very conservative church where it was taught that "forgiveness" meant that I would accept her back just as if it never happened. That I would open my heart and life to her completely just as I had when we said our vows.

This teaching, I have come to know, over the years, is very faulty. Forgiveness only means that "I give up the right to hurt you in return".

She blamed her affair on my low sexual abilities and small equipment. It's true, I was not very experienced at sex, and by contrast, she was hugely experienced. So, she would say "I have to bring myself down to your level" and tell me about other men that she had and how they were much more capable and much more well-endowed than me.

I told her after about 2 years of trying to "reconcile" that "...it's like some guy comes up to you and amputates your arm. You can forgive him for doing it, you can visit him in prison, you can even invite him to watch the super bowl in your living room. But, guess what? Your arm is still a stub. You will never be "whole" again, it doesn't matter how much forgiveness you come up with."

Although we stayed "together" in that we continued to live in the same house (until she died) - things were never the same for me. The thought of having sex with her made me want to puke.

She had an absolute disrespect and even borderline hatred of me that should stop me from continuing any kind of marriage or even any kind of friendship with her. Today, given the same situation, there's no way in hell I would have stayed with her.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 3:36 PM, February 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 37 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome aboard keel)))
I see 2 meanings for acceptance.
One is 'acknowledge'. "I accept that you did that". The other is 'letting you (back) in'.

So, though I accept that she cheated, I will not accept an unremorseful, rug-sweeper.
It pains me thinking of all the people trying to do what they believe to be & what they've been taught to believe is the 'Christian thing to do'...and confuse the 'letting in' acceptance as a necessary component of forgiveness.

It's got to be torture. Especially faced with ongoing - continual - disrespect and hate.
I believe it's possible to divorce and forgive.

dday - So, she blames her inability to be accountable on your meanness, huh? Lovely.

I found I have a low threshold - like ZERO - for listening to any kind of judgement or analysis of my supposed faults.

I default instantly to STFU and make me a sammich mode when I hear that.

In prayer - I said I can't forgive. Straight up. So any measure of it I have, it's because I asked the big guy to do it for me, to put it in my heart. I don't get the credit. He does.


Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@keel

Forgiveness only means that "I give up the right to hurt you in return".

I completely agree with your definition of forgiveness. It's the only one that rings true in my ears.

If you can't reach a point where you're unwilling to hurt her because of what she's done, then get the fuck out. End it. What's left at that point?

Some people get there. I though I'd get there. I didn't and I didn't have the patience to see if I ever could.

@jjct

dday - So, she blames her inability to be accountable on your meanness, huh? Lovely.

Yep, pretty much. The key word being "BLAMES". To me that's what so many of these A's are about, blaming someone else for your shitty behaviors. How else could an otherwise normal, responsible human being act like such a sociopathic, cock-sucking, lunatic? Simple. Accept no responsibility for the situation. Play the victim. Many WW's are experts at victimhood and blame. That's the construct of their lives, and in my xWW's case, it always had been.

Here's a definition of accountability that most sane folks would agree with: "The obligation of an individual to account for their activities, accept responsibility for them, and to disclose the results in a transparent manner."

It's when you have to, in detail, explain the meaning of "obligation", "accept responsibility", "disclose", and "transparent" several dozen times all while your guts have recently been ripped out and stomped on that the definition can become problematic and your need for her to understand it futile.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, February 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MBPs two cents again,
Hate to constantly state the obvious, (jjct, pardon my reiteration),
You see, when guys like jjct and myself and others on this board who have truly experienced unremorseful, hurtful, despictable Adulterers, not those of us who are in R, or those that are trying to deal with the constant back-and-forth of blame and confusion, then it is much clearer to deal with the issue of forgiveness, ie. if it is still, 'Staring you in your Face', then there's no separation from it.
So, I guess having divorced the Sociopath makes it much easier to see a clearer picture of what transpired.
I know, It always seems that I'm very negative on the Reconciling issue, but to forgive, (turn the other cheek, which I think was never really mentioned in any Bible), comes down to a very personal place for everyone.
Living with and facing the perpetrator day in day out has to be extremely burdensome.
Forgive? Sure go ahead; blast her with a plethora of explicatives, right on, walk away and never look back,(but dont' forget to take your pride, dignity and kids with you).
Point is, if you are struggling with issues like; forgiveness, blame, self esteem, then you, as an individual has to make the decision/s, not her! She already has made that decision and it, 'will never change'. Can't go back to how it was, unless you yourself have behaved in the same manner, but that's not who we are here.
Please stop making it all about her! It's about us! Take her out of the equation.
God, or whatever forgiveness has been implanted in our minds pertaining to decency, religious belief or just parenting is a choice we make, not her, never her.
If you are struggling, then find a good therapist. Stop being co-dependent. Believe me they are not worth it.
Don't have to be disrespectful, but God dammit! Don't be submissive.
We are the victims and believe or not adultery is still a crime in certain states, (very few thanks to the wonderful legal system), but non-the-less, a crime.
Finally, when the lioness sees a weakness, it will attack.
These adulterers already know our weaknesses and have taken full advantage, so don't do that!
Forgive them? Out of the question!
If the tables were turned, do you think they would forgive you?
If you answer yes, then you are a much better man than I.
JJCT, I like the one in the blue top and shades the best. Bet she has a, 'Tramp-Stamp', on her lower back.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive." Sir Walter Scott.
Me- DDay June 2012
New Home, New Car - Sept 2012
Girlfriends - Sept to present
JJCT - Us Yankees know how to party also! Keep inspiring us.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, February 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

having divorced the Sociopath makes it much easier to see a clearer picture of what transpired.

And that issue revolved around me. As in:
Why did I allow the erosion of my boundaries?
Why did I allow? This that and the other...
Reminds me of Edgar Allan Poe's opening to "The Cask of Amontillado"
The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge.

(EAP played football too, in the rough and tumble days of no sissification/feminization - no facemask football, so I respect him.)

When I looked into me, and examined why I allowed myself to suffer so much abuse, I found a sad thing. A shallow thing. A one who would trade so much of my soul for a busted nut - in the woods or wherever!

Being not that? Fixing that silly shallow nut-busting dumbass within me? Was the best thing I ever did for myself.
Now I'm deep.
LMAO!

(and it's probably why tramp stamps feel comfortable around me...well, that, and I'm older lol)


Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, February 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I'm deep.

Lol. That's just flat out funny.

For real though, not being a dumbass is about all I'm looking to accomplish and all my father ever expected of me. 'Bout time I had the same expectation of myself, no?


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whelp, here we go.

WW found a place and will put a deposit down on Monday.

So, someone tell me why I feel like shit and am having second thoughts now. Maybe because I know I'm about to crush my 10 year old? The permanence of it all? Facing a lack of money and life of relative poverty? God help me, even the thought of some other dude screwing my WW...

Fuck, I hate this. Someone tell me I'm doing the right thing here. If I'm sad is that telling me something ?


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
impastit
♂ Member
Member # 28951
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon, I think you are doing the right thing.

My dd11 and I are closer than ever. I rebuilt my life and went through 8 jobs in 3 years till I got the right one. I scraped by and have made it so far. My dd11 is just fine.

I wasn't going to get past XWW banging other men while we were married. Fuck that.

If you can go as much NC as possible it hurts less. Not sure it ever goes away completely, but it becomes bearable.

I think you are doing the right thing.


"Get over it." Classic. Classic sociopath!

DDay 4/6/10 Filed DDay, smelled it coming, again
She moved to her happy place 5/2/10
D final 11/18/10
Thank God I got the dog.


Posts: 569 | Registered: Jul 2010
Cannon
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Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks man.

The more I think about it, what bothers me I'd the "doing", not being "done".

I don't look forward to this process , and wish I could just fast forward about three months to when things are settled...


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, February 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We actually had a pretty nice conversation last night, drunk and in the hot tub.

There was no tension anymore, and we were able to talk candidly and openly which was nice.

I asked her to come clean about things, especially if there were any other OM (as if four isn't enough....). She said there weren't. I had a few details of her affairs filled in, and affirmed there were "only" 4 sexual encounters. Two with OM#1 before our first separation, and two with OM#2 after it (though she had the gall to say the "timing was not ever right - that first she lost hope and I had it, then she had it and I lost it. I had to remind her she NEVER had hope - she was cheating on me the entire time with one dude or another after our separation in 2010)

I did get confirmation that she had orgasms every time with the OM - and this time she didn't say it out of anger or to hurt me, so I believe her. And, guys, I ain't gonna lie, it hurt me. Badly. In some primordial way. I'm literally going to need therapy to work on this one. Sigh.

Anyway, we have an overnight trip sans kids scheduled next weekend for her cousin's wedding, but I'm going to cancel it. It's best just to go ahead and break. I'll drive her to the big city so she can go (I don't want her to miss the fun and she still has restrictions from her DUI).


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon,
No one knows your situation better than yourself, but aiding and abetting the enemy will not get you where you should be.
Obviously, your WW has some issues besides being an adulterous slut, (just like my ex. They are toxic people. I may be wrong, but I get a sense that you are afraid to, 'pull the trigger'.
Believe me friend, being codependent, submissive and played out is not the way to continue your life.
Yes, this will be a very painful experience, but you didn't ask to be treated this way.
My advise; drop the issue, remove yourself from your Hopefully, soon to be ex. and God's sake man, pick yourself up by the bootstraps and get back your dignity, confidence and respect you deserve.
Classic Sociopaths are experts in deception. They lie, will continue to cheat and tell you whatever THEY think you need to hear.
Don't take my word for it, put the question to the board.
I truly wish you well. Start really thinking about yourself and your kid/s.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cannon, coming from the other side(5+yrs), maybe it would have been better ripping off the band-aid quickly.
Mine seems remorseful, stopped cheating, got sober etc. M should be great, but the spectre of the OM will always always be there. I'm not as invested in the M as I once was, the "spark" is long gone, this M will never be what I wanted it to be(or thought it once was). But I see my kids daily and still have a roof over my head.

Good luck, my man.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
SecondHelping
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Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm trying to figure out my fWW. She is mostly transparent and caring and trying to help me and herself through this.

For me, R is the #1 thing in my mind right now. Nothing comes before my thoughts about the A and R. fWW and I talk and she answers questions, but she NEVER asks me any questions. She says she just doesn't have any.

Right now she is taking an EMT class and just found out about some medical issues, and these items occupy her thoughts all the time (admittedly the health issue should). The A and R seem to get a very small portion of her thought time.

I don't know if it's because she is selfish or just hoping it all goes away, but it's very odd to me.

In short--showing all the signs of R, but R takes back seat to her life.

Anyone see this before and have recommendations?


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, Kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 464 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 5:48 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, someone else please tell me they see the ironywith STBEW's facebook post today:

And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Matt. 6: 16-18

Lent is not a time of suffering...it is a time of reflection which often means removing things from our lives that might distract that process. Whether or not you chose to give up something for Lent this year or not...I wish all the peace of God's unconditional love.

This came at a good time. I woke up feeling a little weak and uneasy about my decision. It immediately brought me back to reality .

As for an update - STBEW put down a deposit on an apartment and will be out in mid March, and I'm checking in on legalizing our prior mediation agreement. It's actually happening.

We are going to tell the kids Friday night, which I'm worried about. My oldest son (10) is at a bad age for this, and he's very sensitive and internalizes things. Any advice?

[This message edited by Cannon at 6:40 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon,
My 8 yr old has problems. Most kids will display some issues unless they are very young.
I would suggest therapy for the kids and just be the best Dad you can. Don't bash your SlutWS in front of the kids and give them much needed love and attention. Reassure them that they will be ok and that both you and their Slut Mom will always love them.
They are smart and will eventually see through all the shit she has and probably eventually decide to live with you.
God Bless,
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dude, the irony of WW's quoting scripture is mindblowing.

My oldest son (10) is at a bad age for this, and he's very sensitive and internalizes things. Any advice?

Quick back history...I was 11 when my parents divorced. I had a friend over from school and we were playing in the backyard. My mom called me in so I went inside to find my dad home from work early. First thing my mom says "your dad doesn't want to be in the family any more." Then turning to my dad she asks "Do you have anything to add?" My dad said no. I balled my eyes out. My mom then tells me to go back outside and play with my friend and not to tell any one.

Moral of the story, whatever you do make sure you remind him that you love him no matter what. That he is the most important aspect of all this. Hug him, be there for him, listen to him, get him to a therapist to make sure he is coping and handling the D as best he can. If he is mad at you two, let him be mad. Constantly reassure him that he is a great kid and he will be alright, that you are there for him no matter what. If you feel it, cry too. Show him that you empathize with him. I hope the STBXW can do the same.

Your situation brought back some issues for me. Hope I wasn't too preachy. Best of luck to you.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the advise guys. I'll let you know how it goes.

The thing I found ironic about the fb post is that it's a Bible verse advising against fasting publicly just to be seen by others, but to do it in private...but she put that on facebook!!

And tonight, she just casually dropped that she's at a church "hosting for the homeless" , but neglects to say that it's court ordered for her DUI conviction

I swear, this woman's need for attention is boundless. It's only recently I've learned that I could never ever fill it.

I tell you guys...now that there's a date and endgame in sight, I'm really feeling better already. Looking forward to the day coming up VERY SOON now when I don't have to deal with the bullshit anymore. And I'm actually wondering why I waited so damn long.


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, February 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing I found ironic about the fb post is that it's a Bible verse advising against fasting publicly just to be seen by others, but to do it in private...but she put that on facebook!!

And tonight, she just casually dropped that she's at a church "hosting for the homeless" , but neglects to say that it's court ordered for her DUI conviction

I believe there is also a scripture that says something to the effect of, if you do good deeds openly you have your reward. But if you do good deeds in secret you get rewarded openly. Pardon the paraphrase.

Either way its pretty predictable for WW's to put on a show for everyone. Always trying to make themselves out to be the worlds greatest mom/wife/daughter. It's the smokescreen they like to throw out so no one knows how F'd up they really are.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
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