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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
wert
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Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon -

Wow what a freaking mess. It seems like you are taking the steps you need to and keeping it as above the belt as you can. You know and have been given good advice - can't fix another persons shame. She has to come out of those shadows herself or not.

Others have commented on how your posts have "fascinated" or "enjoyed" the spiral you W (soon thankfully) to be ex is in. I just feel sad for you and for her. What a shitty place. Keep your healthy keepin on and try not to let her cause an more damage than is possible to you and yours. She is a mess and I hope for her sake she figures it out.

take care....



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
tfkeel
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Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she's gone back to the "Small dick" and "lasts three minutes" insults

Yep. I took all this to heart, too. It was nothing but a crock. I found a woman who loved me and cared about me and wasn't just in it for herself.

My new wife says that I'm the best she ever had, and it has nothing to do with "big dick" or "three minutes".

Amazing. How one guy can be both "little dick - three minutes" and "the best".


Posts: 38 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My new wife says that I'm the best she ever had, and it has nothing to do with "big dick" or "three minutes".

Amazing. How one guy can be both "little dick - three minutes" and "the best".

I'd never trust a woman whose main interests AND insults seem to be the same thing. I think women are sort of brainwashed from youth that guys are supposed to be sensitive about dick size and/or stamina, and so it's an easy cheap shot. But if it doesn't bother you, they don't know how to react. I always feel sad for those women that chirp about the size of guys' dicks ALL THE TIME. Out of all the things I could possibly be insecure about, that's way down on the list, because I can't change it, so I better just live with it. I'd sooner be insecure over my weight, or fitness, or intelligence...things I could change (within reason) if I were motivated enough to do so. Plus, I'd never want to be with a girl who's experienced enough penises to be able to determine what's large or small because she's got an accurate standard distribution in her head, due to a large sampling size.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon, the blow by blow is making me nervous more than anything else.
She's abusive...and hacking your phone is invasive. If the genders were reversed, what do you think the advice from females would be?

The picture-ripping...
What can you do to reduce the threat of escalation? Of false DV charges?
Of involving the children - damaging them?

- Put weapons, valuables, mementos, important papers, etc. beyond her reach. Safety deposit, friends house, etc.
- DO NOT ENGAGE in any discussion. Your boundaries. You draw them & keep them firm. Kids and finances only. (& NOTHING in front of the kids. Period.)
- Save the abusive emails. Get a VAR and keep it on you at all times. Record yourself calmly, politely, and firmly stating those boundaries.

Bump this safety thread after you read it:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=474587&HL=17484

You may be a cannon, but she's a loose cannon.
You should treat her as such to protect yourself and your kids.


Posts: 6019 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
PanicAttack53
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Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi again guys!

I need some advice from any of you that have decided to end the crazy train and file D. Those that know me, also know that is what I've recently done.

Here's what I need your perspective on... Over the last couple of months my mind has defogged and I'm now beginning to see all the warts - flaws etc. of stbxWW. This process has been nothing short of amazing to me.

A few examples of this are the realizations that stbxWW never-ever told me once (unsolicited) in 38 yrs. of M that she "loved me". Not even during sex! Another is that I can't ever remember her telling me that she found me attractive, handsome, or that she was proud of me in ANY way... even after I started and ran (for 25 yrs.) a very successful business with only a HS education. The really weird part of those two examples is that she WOULD tell other people in MY presence those things, just never to me when we were alone.

There are so many more of these revelations coming now on a daily basis that it's becoming harder for me to completely detach and move on. I'm also beating myself up over how I could have been so fucking blind to all this shit for 38 years! So I go from anger to sadness to outright disgust of myself. I have been working on this in IC, but can't seem to shake it completely yet.

Anyone else done this after filing for D? If so, how long did it take you to fully process these revelations and move on?

As always, thanks for any and all help on this.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
h0peless
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Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, March 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PanicAttack, I'm still in the middle of it but it's shocking, isn't it? I recently figured out why I was conflict avoidant in my marriage and not in any other relationship I've ever had in my whole life. Mine would tell me that she loved me and that she was proud of me but if we ever had a disagreement about anything, she would bring up any transgression she could think of, even minor ones, to make me feel like a hypocrite. Eventually I just gave up and conceded everything to her, expressing my frustration in stupid and sometimes passive aggressive ways.

I think slowly but surely, we become trained to accept things that should be completely unacceptable. Those things can change the way we relate to our spouses and eventually become really unhealthy. I was the sort of person who chose to be happy in spite of the things that weren't so great about my relationship. She, as it turns out, chose to be unhappy because of those things. I felt that the good outweighed the bad while she felt that while there was a lot of good, the bad meant that she should be searching for something better. I believe you can be one or the other and except for in extreme circumstances where there is abuse, addiction, etc., the latter is pretty toxic in a marriage.

[This message edited by h0peless at 10:36 PM, March 5th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1323 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Arizona
tfkeel
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Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd never want to be with a girl who's experienced enough penises to be able to determine what's large or small because she's got an accurate standard distribution in her head, due to a large sampling size.

That was exactly the problem. I had little experience or knowledge about sex when I arrived at marriage. She had run the gamut.

I felt that the good outweighed the bad while she felt that while there was a lot of good, the bad meant that she should be searching for something better.

She was very resentful of my inexperience, and morally "loose", like you describe.

She, like you said, "chose" to be unhappy. She could have looked at the good instead of focusing on the bad.


Posts: 38 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Mypoorboys
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Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gentleman,
I think most of us, when we truly fall in love, immediately put the,'blinders', on and proceed down a path of unrealistic, self-compromising, submissive, behavior.
PA - I had the same reaction at about 6 months post divorce, even though many of my friends would kindly inform me often about my blindness.
Yes, I suspect we all go back and begin the self-analysis phase of the recovery process.
It can be very detrimental to our well-being, so as mentioned here many times, please take care of yourself first; (therapy, medication, fitness, friends), whatever it takes to maintain your health.
FB - jjct hit the nail again with solid advise for you.
Protect yourself, (legally and financially), for the consequences of failing to do so could haunt you forever.
We all know the routine by now; absolve all joint, financial accounts, physically remove yourself from the toxic entity. Always stay at 2-3 arms distance. Never challenge, keep calm and yes,immediately buy a VAR and carry it on your person at all times around her. She may already have one on her person.
It's a shit storm we all go through and the bottom line is; the sluts will do what they want. We have no control over that, only what we do and how we decide to handle it.
One last point, name calling is for the immature, small minded helpless. No need to stoop to their level by pointing out their weaknesses, faults or short comings. Believe me when I tell you, they already know what they are, but just can't see beyond their noses to smell the stench they have created. It's called, narcissism.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that was exactly the problem. I had little experience or knowledge about sex when I arrived at marriage. She had run the gamut.

This can cut either way, to be honest. My wife has had about 8 partners, including me, and says that our sex is better than the the rest of 'em. She could be lying, of course, but really, who knows. I've only had 3 partners, including her and it doesn't bug me. I don't know that it REALLY matters how many people she's been with. Even if she's been with 100 people before you, it's not going to matter if shr loves your sex life and loves/respects you like you deserve.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
PowerGlo
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Member # 34132
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a great song by the Black Crowes that describes what you explain in your post PanicAttack. It's called Seeing Things...

I find it hard to shed a tear
You brought it all on yourself my dear
Wrong, yes I may be
Don't leave a light on for me
'Cause I ain't comin' home
It hurts me baby to be alone
Yes, it hurts me baby

A hundred years will never ease
Hearing things I won't believe
I saw it with my own two eyes
All the pain that I can't hide
And this pain starts in my heart
And this love tears us apart
You won't find me bent down on my knees
Ain't bendin' over backwards baby
Not to please

'Cause I'm seeing things for the first time
I'm seeing things for the first time, oh yeah
I'm seeing things for the first time
In my life, in my life

I used to dream
Of better days that never came
Sorry ain't nothin' to me
I'm gone and that's the way it must be
So please I've done my time
Lovin' you is such a crime
You won't fine me down on, on my knees
Won't fine me over backwards baby
Just to please

'Cause I'm seeing things for the first time
I"m seeing things for the first time
Seeing things for the first time
Oh I'm seeing things for the first time
Yeah, seeing things for the first time
I'm seeing things for the first time
Yeah, I'm seeing things for the first time
In my life, in my life

This song has helped me open up my eyes.


Married 27 years...
DDay #1 11/11/11 - AFF profile with 10-15 boy toys.
DDay #2 1/13/2012 - still at it with the AFF boys.
1/17/2014 - Divorced
I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life


Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NW Indiana
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Over the last couple of months my mind has defogged and I'm now beginning to see all the warts - flaws etc. of stbxWW. This process has been nothing short of amazing to me.

This is both a good and a healthy thing. I'm going to say this, because BH's often get bombarded with the inverse (i.e., all the ways that you "betrayed" your wife that led her to be vulnerable to an affaair), so it's worth having in your back pocket:

I have rarely -- like *never* -- seen a BH show up on an online forum for whom infidelity was the first marital betrayal his wife had ever engaged in. Fucking other dudes was just the straw that broke the camel's back. On some level, I think that most married people realize on any given day that they are given less from their spouse than they're entitled to by the phrase "love, honor, and cherish." We all fall down on that sometimes. We get crabby, don't have enough coffee, become snappish because of shit at work, forget to be compassionate during arguments, spend too much money on something we want, etc., etc. The list is endless.

Then there's that whole other layer where we each keep an image in our minds of what an ideal spouse should look like (product of television, family of origin, the model of our opposite sex parent, on and on) and grade our spouse against that yardstick -- while never *telling* them about the yardstick, because to do so would be manipulative.

My sense is that in normal marriages, these petty sins and betrayals dismissed beneath the gloss that mature love gives the other partner the benefit of the doubt. Love is patient, in it's very narrowest definition. It is *at least* patient, and immensely more besides.

Before any man chooses to reconcile, the question he should be asking himself first is what else his wife can bring to the table other than just not fucking other people -- because I can guarantee you that when the WW comes back to the negotiation of the new marriage, she's going to ask for a shit ton of concessions (under the guise of "unmet needs" or "pre-A issues)...as though she's been living with this horrible example of a man for years and years as a perfect saint, then one day it was just too much and she snapped.

That is a gallon of bullshit, and every married man I've ever met knows it. If we're honest with ourselves, when our WW presents us with a list of the things we've done wrong, need to change, or have historically slighted her...we've got a list just as long that now has "fucking other dudes" appended at the bottom.

There is some value to be obtained from the process of differentiation that should (and must, I contend) come after a major betrayal with regards to the image of our wives that we carry around inside our heads. It's a good thing to dust off that list and read it in the light of day. Betrayal on the scale of infidelity or physical violence doesn't just happen one day, out of the blue. It's built on an edifice of minor betrayals over years and years. Little manipulations, lies, disrespectful judgments, faulty comparisons against the imaginary standard (on and on) for which any consequence was deemed worth the joy derived from the betrayal. (This is usually phrased as some variety of "finally standing up for myself" or some such shit, like the wife has been silently accrueing these wounds and burdens over endless years, just taking it and taking it until she reached her breaking point. Don't know about you, but that's nobody's wife I've ever encountered. Not even my mom, and she's the closest thing to a genuine saint on the planet since Mother Theresa passed.)

The default shouldn't be reconciliation, not without that honest inventory of your betrayals list that forces you to ask yourself if this person was ever really fit for marriage with you -- because it's going to be clear from her justification pattern that she's got a whole raft of pre-A issues that she's still itching to take you to task for, even while she's telling you out of the other side of her mouth that her A was the price you paid for that multitude of sins. That's the great part about being a BS -- you're told that no only did you have it coming to even up accounts, but that you should have to pay for all of those things again in order to repair the marriage. You're going to have to change, become "better" (however she defines it) and comply with her ideal standard of what you and a marriage should be like so she gets her redemptive kudos for turning other dudes' dicks into marital aids. (You know this narrative -- if the marriage doesn't end up somehow bettah.than.evah, the WW is likely to view the whole reconciliation as a failure and be ready to bail again in five years. In this game, she's always setting the terms for bettah.than.evah without any real consultation with you about what you might want out of marriage. You're supposed to be content with the fact that all of the dicks have gone back into her mental dresser drawer to only be dragged out again in those times when you *really* -- and inevitably -- fail to meet her standard again.)

As Admiral Akbar said, "That there, son, looks like a trap."

Because it is. If any relationship is going to succeed at being truly intimate, there's got to be give and take. That doesn't mean just doing each other's honey-do lists and trading off dinner prep. It has to mean that when she decides to identify some shit she thinks you've got and call you on it, that you also have the freedom -- and the right -- in the context of the relationship to pull out your own list of ways you'd like her to be more like Amy Adams. And if she expects you to be compliant or it means something terrible about your depth of love for her, than she ought to be goddamned giddy about the opportunity to submit to your demands.

If she gets to remake you into her image, then it should be her greatest desire to be remade into yours. I'm sure most of you have heard this same advice in softer language: a man should do whatever he can to please his wife, to show her that she's the most important thing in the world to him.

What I'm saying is that it's reciprocal. It must be reciprocal, otherwise it's just manipulation. There's no give and take; it's you giving and her being the one given to.

And that's an easy trap to fall into if you're a guy who has become accustomed to the little betrayals and expressions of selfishness and decided to cover that multitude of sins with love. When you begin to see your wife rightly -- as the product of her actions, a mix of both the one who took care of you when you had a cold that one time, and the one berated you in front of your buddies because you hadn't cleaned out the gutters after she told you it needed done *two days ago* -- then you remember that compassion has to go both ways if the relationship is to be worthwhile. You have the right to demand as much compassion as you've given; and if she won't reciprocate, then you have the right to treat her with the same disrespect (or, you know, divorce if that's not your ideal relationship model).

In any honest inventory, most of us should be able to come up with dozens of examples where we let our wives breach our boundaries -- treat us in a way that we wouldn't let someone else treat us, but that we forgave or dismissed in the name of love. Fucking other dudes was just the most egregious example; the one that rose to the level of intolerable.

Look, I'm not advising you to be an asshole scorekeeper here. I'm advising you to be honest with yourself. To ask yourself why you settled for less than you deserved while not accepting the same in return. What is it with you, your model of marriage, or your habitual train of thought that let you dismiss the same sort of damage that you've been called to pay full price for?

Why was forgiveness an option for you, while she was stockpiling her resentments for future punishment? Why didn't you demand equal treatment? And why did you stay in or consider rejoining a relationship where there exists such a gap of equality?

Because that shit has got to change. Either she's got to be willing to do better, or she's got to be willing to accept less. Otherwise, you should have no interest in allying yourself with someone who is always going to take more than they give.

Does she want to feel more secure? Than she should be willing to make sure that *you* feel secure -- and not just because you're "not the jealous type". Does she not want to be yelled at when you're angry? Then she'd better be willing to never raise her voice at you. Does she not want you to spend so much time on a hobby? Then she'd best be making a list of the things she likes to do that she's willing to give up to carve out more alone time with you and the kids.

The biggest flaw I see in modern relationship counseling is this bullshit idea that when we identify a relationship problem (i.e., something my spouse is fucking up), that our sole responsibility is to bring that to their attention. Tell them you have a boundary and won't tolerate it any longer.

That's shit. It's a cop out. It's taking something I don't like and making the solution your problem. It takes the "problem" out of my basket and puts it into yours, so I get to blame you not only for the problem existing, but for any failure of the issue to get resolved if the future doesn't live up to my liking.

Here's what I think: if you identify a problem, the onus is on you to work through the possibilities and come up with possible solutions that will remedy it. That's owning the problem *and* the process of resolution, as well as demonstrating that you're willing to compromise in a way that no one feels like they bear the brunt of it. Even more importantly, this sort of approach gives some valuable intel to both parties: the "problem-identifying" partner gets to gauge how invested the "problem" partner is in addressing the issue (i.e., how much their input is valued); and, the "problem" partner gets to gauge how reasonable (or just manipulative) the "problem-identifying" partner is by the solution they propose.

Both parties gain valuable information on whether or not the relationship is worth continuing in light of the issue that's been raised. They're on a level playing field.

So many of us were "blindsided" by our wives' infidelity...and that's a pity, because I can guarantee you that she'd given you plenty of warning that fucking other dudes was in her grab bag of potential responses to butt-hurt if we'd been paying attention to who she was demonstrating herself to be rather than who she was telling us she was. No, we were too busy looking at the mental image of her as "someone who would never do something like that; she luuurves me" to read that sanskrit.

Actions, not words. For most of us who looked back over years of marriage before the cheating, it wasn't hard with a bit of emotional distance to see that fucking around was just one more step in a pattern of disregard, abuse, and disrespect that had been going on for quite some time -- but that we didn't pay attention to because we loved her too much to call her on her shit (or whatever).

If you ever had the thought, "Boy, if that was any woman other than my wife, I'd say that was pretty hinky behavior", you know what I'm talking about. If you ever watched a buddy just absolutely get his shit reamed by his bitch-wife and thought, "Man, that reminds me of that one time my wife...", then you also know what I'm talking about.

If you ever gave your wife the benefit of the doubt when you would have taken someone else aside and said, "Son, you need to stand up for yourself" -- then to believe that your wife fucking other dudes was an aberration is simply an intolerable assertion.

And then you need to set about figurig out why you've loved yourself so little that you let yourself settle for that kind of treatment instead of tossing her in the rubbish bin of your past like she deserved.

"Because I loved her" is not a viable answer. Users and abusers do not provoke authentic feeligs love.

"Because she's better than that; it was a bad day/week/year." is also unviable. She's not better than that. She is who she is, which she tells you by her actions. If you believe she is better than who she has shown herself to be (repeatedly), then you're not married to your wife. You're married to an imaginary version of your wife who just happens to resemble the warm body you crawl into bed with every night.

Don't misunderstand me here: I believe that at it's best, love is aspirational. I believe that it sees the best in us, even when we don't. I believe that the best love even gives us the benefit of the doubt when we fail, and we all do.

What love does not do is call the truth a lie, and a lie the truth. Love doesn't pretend that the abuser is not. It extends grace to the abuser in the hope that the abuser will become something better...and it also loves itself enough to care for its own needs and safety. Love does not break itself so the abuser can feel better about who they are while aspiring to nothing.

None of us should settle for less than we deserve from those we love. We've made that mistake in the past, and we've seen how it ends. You want real love? Demand as much as you give. If your partner isn't up to it, accept that and move on to someone worthy of you -- all viewed through the lenses of honest self-reflection and grace. You can still grade on a curve, but if you're tempted to change the answer in the teacher's edition of the textbook, then chances are you're going to far.

And for the love of God, always remember that you know yourself better than anybody you're married to/dating/in a relationship with. If they're full of shit, trust yourself well enough to acknowledge that they're full of shit (or FOO or childhood trauma or whatever other base they might be working from).

Peace.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would've made that post longer, but Google sent me an e-mail saying that I'd break the internet if I tried to push one more byte through the straw.

So I'll have to save the really important stuff I wanted to say for later.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gold, Jerry. Gold. Also, it's nice to know that when it comes time to renegotiate my contract, I can finally work in the clause about two blowjobs followed by the presentation of a Boston Creme donut every Sunday morning...because frankly, my wife hasn't been on her game about it, and I've been secretly harboring resentment, to the point where I may have to seek out people to whine about my needs not being met. See? Turnabout IS fair play.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:27 AM, March 7th (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
tfkeel
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Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she's got a whole raft of pre-A issues that she's still itching to take you to task for, even while she's telling you out of the other side of her mouth that her A was the price you paid for that multitude of sins.

Yep. Exactly. They are even pre-marital issues. Things which existed in her life long before she even met you. But now, you have become the convenient scapegoat.


Posts: 38 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
nlovemyfamily
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Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

found this on a site about MLC…hope it helps someone here!

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:MRfLUBKBkSYJ:forum.makingherhappy.com/attachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D56%26d%3D1276041464+&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj0DRtxK1wqcERQ40HCkJShlUkowHR3FHo37sNtI2ETQNXIuI0dZv84k9dAHi7Ai8Enq10_2WQKjez_sO4YUsGXYYRmfyo5I1VXoJ9HDTi22KbCh6vXzApTrAXbP_0eTTGZOqbx&sig=AHIEtbQYeZCre4jSJC6paMcoRuo98qbOzQ

[This message edited by nlovemyfamily at 11:58 AM, March 7th (Thursday)]


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So many of us were "blindsided" by our wives' infidelity...and that's a pity, because I can guarantee you that she'd given you plenty of warning that fucking other dudes was in her grab bag of potential responses to butt-hurt if we'd been paying attention to who she was demonstrating herself to be rather than who she was telling us she was. No, we were too busy looking at the mental image of her as "someone who would never do something like that; she luuurves me" to read that sanskrit.

Something interesting as an afterthought to this is we're all blindsided for good reason, despite the lists and the bullshit and the get-fucked attitudes we're given. Truth bias aside, I think most BH's are relationship addicts and quitting your wife is like quitting smoking.

There is a neurological process that rewards cooperative behavior and being trusted/trustworthy by releasing Oxytocin. Most of us are by that time so used to trying to fix this and do that it looks a little like a guy trying to get that familiar high.

Because not getting that unconsciously feels the same as not having a smoke - we know we can live without it but the pull is indescribable. Then the very idea of that life without that hit is intimidating and strange, and you know she's right there maybe I can chase down that elusive smile that will make me feel good just one more time...

... fuck I just went through a whole pack of smokes when I was trying to quit. Not literally just, you know, that's how it happens.

The longer you have been with someone and more trust you place in them, the more difficult it is to literally change your brain chemistry to see the insanity and pain and bullshit. It's how magicians work. Penn & Teller can show you a trick and you'll fall for it anyway. Your brain says no, fuck you, this is what you see.

Training it to see otherwise by detaching takes time and patience and it's unfortunately no guarantee you won't be blindsided again, because those same brain triggers are also responsible for empathy and compassion.

The signs are definitely always there, and I think just about all of us feel kinda dumb for missing them but the game is rigged. Doesn't mean you are destined to lose, just means you're destined to deal with re-evaluating your reality.

sorry, didn't mean to t/j or cherry pick, got this shit on the brain as it were and it jumped out at me.

eta:

I dunno what oxytoxin is but it sounds applicable, I'm gonna incorporate that into a D&D game at some point

[This message edited by StillGoing at 1:33 PM, March 7th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

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Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not going to lie, I'm kind of curious to see how the "new marriage" negotiations work themselves out. Through out my marriage, I've always been really clear that if my wife has something she'd like addressed, I'm down to listen to it, but she needs: a) to have a remedy to the problem, and b) needs to be willing to apply the same sort of logic to herself. Example:

I've always been a morning person...I get up around 4:30 AM to go to the gym, and on non-gym days I get up around 7:00 am. That being said, I don't/can't stay up late. I get tired around 10-ish, and by 12:30 AM I will pass out. My wife is the opposite, always has been during the entire course of our relationship. I NEVER had an issue with that...I'm a morning person, she's an evening person...fine, that's cool. Different strokes, etc. However, a little while before the A started she began to complain when I would get ready to go to bed, saying that we don't spend enough time together. That in itself was a valid complaint...we're busy, I would've liked to have spent more time together as well. But be fair about it. If you want me to stay up late with you, I will from time to time....as long as you're willing to spend some mornings with me. Her reasoning was that she couldn't get up in the morning because she wasn't a morning person. Well, that's ok with me...I can accept that is who you are...just like getting up early is who I am...and since I'm fine accpeting who you are, and you're not fine accepting who I am, you should probably come with a solution that is fair and equitable to both parties...otherwise, I'm not going to dedicate brain space worrying about it too much. I think that's where this...

My sense is that in normal marriages, these petty sins and betrayals dismissed beneath the gloss that mature love gives the other partner the benefit of the doubt. Love is patient, in it's very narrowest definition. It is *at least* patient, and immensely more besides.

...comes in. To a degree. I was semi-ok with the inequality in this particular part of our relationship...I had just decided that in this particular area of my relationship I was willing to carry the heavier load, because, you know, she'll get my back somewhere down the line...UNTIL you start using my "not spending time with you" as an excuse to open up to, and eventually bone, another person (person being generous, of course). That's one of biggest gripes I've had, is that the POSOM felt like he had the complete picture (since he was a really close friend)...took what he perceived, combined it with my wife's complaining, and *boom*, I must be a shitty husband. Except that the WW's never tell the whole story to the AP...about maybe why their husband is annoyed with them from time to time, or seems like he's in a bad mood, or didn't do x, y, or z, because that's not how the couple had decided that the chores are divided. It's so fucking crazy to me that the AP *never* seems to consider for a second that mayyyyybbbbeee there's more going on here. Ugh.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 4:07 PM, March 7th (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, who wants a craaazy update?

This afternoon at work, I get a call from my MIL. SHe apologized for what my WW posted on facebook this morning. I had to inform her that I and all my friends and coworkers had been defriended so I couldn't see it. She said it had to do with child support (she's paying me 250).

Luckily, I suspected she would do this, so I found a "mole" who's still a friend of hers and agreed to send me stuff. Here's the post:

Well women are officially liberated. Thanks for all the bra burning. I now get to pay my ex husband child support each month because I advanced my college education beyond his. Rise up men and start burning those boxers! LOL

Then, later in the same thread:

We have joint legal and physical custody. I still have to pay since my salary is higher. It's just money and I'm not very materialistic. I'm trying to laugh it off

Uh-huh

Anyway, MIL is worried that in the long term, WW might tell the kids bad things about me because she has to pay and suggested fixing the papers and finding another way to do it. She begged me not to tell WW that we talked about this.

Then she broke down on the phone, something I've NEVER heard her do in almost 20 years and said "This is not the daughter I raised...and I don't know if she's coming back"

Wow.

So then, there I am, talking my STBEMIL down off the ledge. Unreal day


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The one thing that really REALLY pissed off my XW was having to pay me CS. The final straw for me in the marriage from hell was that after a fight about the money she had just spent that we didn't have("Just borrow from your 401 AGAIN!"), I asked her why we had bothered to get married in the first place. Her response....."I married you for the child support I'll get when I divorce you!"

Lol


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2070 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 2:20 AM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL, I nominate your post for the healing library. That's some amazing stuff.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14

My dog farted, startled himself, wondered where the noise came from. I wish my life was as simple.


Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
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