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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She can file for D. ANY. TIME. SHE. WANTS. It always exists as an option, shitty or otherwise.

And all those things you listed? Perfectly acceptable reasons to NOT be with someone....but then put your big girl pants on and get the fuck out of dodge...but don't try to stay in dodge riding someone else's horse, so to speak.

eta: Sorry, kinda/sorta double post.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:39 AM, March 18th (Monday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brother, she can file for the big D. ANY. TIME. SHE. WANTS

Then you be that man.. maybe the reciprocity you get is what you ask for..

I am not trying to beat any man up. You be who you want.

But relationships are not easy. You likely do much of what I say.. but to do all takes effort.

Perfectly acceptable reasons to NOT be with someone

Fine, then don't... or find that woman who is not looking for a prince charming.. Good luck brother.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, anytime I wanted sex and got blown off, I was expected to just let it roll off my back and keep it moving along with my day. If I pushed too much, I got chastised (admittedly, sometimes playfully) about how she didn't feel like it. I wasn't getting reamed or anything.

But when she wanted to have sex? If I wasn't in the mood?

Ohhhh man. Total ballistic meltdown. Crying, the works, about how I make her feel unattractive, which transitioned into conversations about how I don't compliment her enough, etc.


This is a problem I don't have.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
spareparts
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Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard,

I'm not sure exactly what the list you gave is trying to represent, but what you describe is the complete opposite of myself. The only place I fall down is the not calling her out on ALL of her shit, the stuff I did call her out on was the big things. The little things, unless I was willing to be divorced over the fact she went out with her girlfriends quite a bit (which would probably go against one of the other items you listed) were not really worth sweating over and so I let them go in the name of comprimise.

My XWW never really did anything out of the normal with her A, I caught it within the first month because she invited OM over to our house for a BBQ and I instantly saw they way they were together.

And just for completion, the OM was a guy that could've filled 90% of your lists requirements.

I own my failing in the M in that I compromised too much and created an environment where my XWW effectively thought that she could do what the hell she liked and could get away with it. She truely believed I'd let her have a seperation and when things didn't work out with OM she could come right back. I'm not saying I'm Mr Perfect by any means and I'm sure that she would give you a list of things I didn't do, though some of these would include such gems I heard as "you put the clothes on the radiators in the wrong way", "When you vacuum the house you don't do it as well as me", "you have done all the house work and I don't have anything to do".

I was the one arranging time together, she was the one throwing obstacles in the way, I would buy flowers because I saw them and thought of her. She would get back rubs, just to help her fall asleep. Though having said that the month prior to her affair, I wasn't able to concentrate 100% of my spare time on her, because I was actually in the process of extending our house, so I would come home from work, do dinner for the kids, bath and put them to bed, start painting/building and spend most of the evening doing that for her. Then when she got in, she would be too tired from work, and would fall asleep within 30 minutes. And all it took for her to fall for OM was him telling her how beautiful he thought she was, obviously when I Said this i was only saying it because I was her husband and it was my job to say that, even though I told her daily, and noticed her hair cuts, hair being dyed, new out fits etc etc.

From this I have learned that there is no sure fire list, no method for someone to prevent against cheating. The only guarenteed way for preventing your Wife from cheating is to not have a wife.....


Posts: 515 | Registered: Sep 2011
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know that I completely disagree with tryn here -- except in the sense of scale.

*If* you keep in mind, and *always* look through the lens, that you are never responsible for someone else's decisions, it is allowable to me that the disillusionment of unmet expectations can contribute to one spouse's decision to have an affair.

I think the disillusionment gets heightened in someone who has lost the ability to self-soothe, who doesn't cope well with change, who hits their MLC stage and can't self-validate, ...insert your circumstance here..., but it is there. It's part of the human condition to like bright, shiny, new things -- to consume them, and then look for a new bright, shiny thing.

I think that part of the issue is that we get so bound up in role expectations that it's hard to break out of what we're expected to do based on past performance that it becomes easier to try something new with someone else -- someone who has no historic expectation of us.

This is where StillGoing has some awesome experience. I don't even understand, on some level, where he got the courage to start MMA training when he decided to buff up. I have no history of consistent exercise...and I'd be half-terrified to mention to my wife that I was even thinking about it, because to mention it would obligate me to either succeed or fail. The stupid thing is that I *know* my wife would understand if I failed...but that's role expectations for you. You can't just do something new/different, you have to have a rationale for it, because it's not something you've done before. I hear so many affair stories where someone says how much more creative, thoughtful, interesting they felt during the A. Shirley Glass even gets at this when she talks about beginning discussions about infidelity with what part of themselves the A brought out that wasn't present in the marriage. I get this. It's about people feeling smothered by the role they've cast themselves into and not seeing any way it can change. Actually, let's correct that -- there's no way they can change it without risk. Change costs us something. The more I see of infidelity, the more convinced I am that "fear of losing what I've got" is such a deep, core component.

One of the reasons people stay in relationships is because of the comfortability factor. It seems to me to be exactly the 80/20 rule we all know from business. I think that most of the time, the person withdrawing or affairing or whatever is getting 80% of their needs met. They are, in essence, mostly comfortable. They're mostly able to handle 20% disillusionment because their spouse has a few foibles, a few flaws, a few things that bug the living shit out of them.

Then they hit a stage in life (getting older, getting bored, getting unhappy with the trajectory of their life, stuck in a rut, oh-look-a-shiny!, etc.) where they want something more. They want to change. They want to accomplish something, feel something else, do something different. How do you decide, for instance, to start working out at the gym 3x per week without running the risk that your spouse will start to do something for themselves 3x per week? You get three hours, they get three hours...but now you're not just working out, you've taken on three extra hours of solo parenting time. Suddenly, it's a *six* hour investment, only half of which is fun...and what if I *fail*. Then I've lost 3 hours of me-time because my spouse picked up their own activity!

Wouldn't it be so much awesomer if there was someone who could just support me in what *I* wanted to do without any expectations? They'll just support me and not cost me 3 hours a week. They won't remember if I give up this whole exercise thing two weeks into it -- because there's no past and no future, only the present.

Wouldn't it be great if there was someone out there to bend over backwards to help me succeed without expecting anything in return? Someone who just appreciates me because I'm awesome?

Hells bells, man! I don't even need to exercise, because she already thinks I'm awesome just for fucking being *me*!

I've said quite a few times since I joined this site that part of recovering as a BS is taking care of yourself -- finding the shit you always wanted to do and just do it, because you're living in a consequence-free world when you're married to an other-fucker/WS. You get to make it all about your healing, your recovery, taking care of yourself.

Hmm. Sort of the same concept, eh? Seizing an opportunity to throw off role expectations and re-make yourself into a more attractive version of yourself (a more attractive version to yourself, that is.)

It's an interesting question to me, this thing of roles. Roles are both that thing that provide us comfort and continuity -- what is expected of me? what do I do in circumstance x, y, or z? I mow the lawn, she folds the laundry. -- and that thing delimits our possibilities. Because if we start stepping outside of our role, then it's only fair that our spouse get to step outside of theirs...and then what the fuck will happen? It's CHAOS EVERYWHERE!!! The dogs won't get fed, the laundry won't get done, the city will condemn our yard as a pestilence zone, and the kids will end up in prison!

But it's really more selfish than that, isn't it? Most of the time, *we* want to step outside of our role, while still having our spouse fulfill theirs. Much less scary if they're reliable and dependable to do x, respond y, and expect z. Much better for me if my spouse is *just* the role they occupy. They can be the Morlock, while I'm the Eloi.

So, if I'm going to change, I'm going to have to do it a bit on the sly. Even better, because that way, if I happen to fail or lose interest, there won't be anyone to remind me that I've failed. I don't lose anything if I keep it a secret. I can explore my potential opportunities in perfect safety. What they don't know won't hurt them, after all.

So, let's bring this back full circle: I think that part of what tryn is saying is that we should be willing to be courageous. Be willing to stay invested in our own growth and the growth of our spouse. Don't let the weight of our historic roles guide our future, but always try to keep in mind that our spouses are sovereign human beings who are entitled to change, to grow, to fail, to explore...and part of being married is mutually helping one another to do that.

I think that in most situations where affairs occur, part of what's happpened is that there's been a forgetting of actual unique humanity in both spouses. We look at each other and see the roles they're supposed to fulfill...and fundamentally, roles are boring. They're predictable. They're dull.

Human beings are shiny.

If I'm not careful, I can let myself forget how awesome my wife is as a human being. I can forget that she has a whole secret universe inside of her head that I will only ever know in passing. If I studied her mind and her thoughts for a thousand years, I would fathom only a fraction of a percent of her essential self.

That's what happens when we throw off the chains of role expectations. We can both see and be seen more authentically. Vibrancy is attractive.

Now, I don't think that sort of thing "affair proofs" a marriage. You can't make someone else do anything. Some people see vibrancy and self-improvement as a threat, because they don't feel like they can keep up. Sometimes people don't want to put in the hard work to be more fulfilled, and substitute that with the cheap fulfillment of other-fucking. Affairs are really little more than distractions to keep people from actually being interesting and living an interesting life. They're the lazy man's shortcut to an illusion of having a life worth living.

I think that if you live a life where you're taking care of your shit, where you're growing, where you're fulfilled -- and you have the same sort of view of your spouse's learning/growing/fulfilling journey, you're more likely to help create an environment where affairs aren't likely to be seen as an attractive option. You can't do it by yourself, of course, but you can raise the bar -- and then if you're taking care of your shit, if she's unwilling/unable to meet that bar, then you're not going to be tremendously interested in staying with her for the long term anyway.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a problem I don't have.

Congrats, bro.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn - my wife's list of imperfections is just as long as mine is.

These things are all good cause to feel one way. Our responses and how we choose to act on those feelings are entirely owned by us.

I own my list. She owns hers. Otherwise, her actions are just as influential on my behaviors - which means that logic has to apply to any abuse that is reciprocated. I don't mean to sound all emo and shit since I'm sober and it's noon on a monday but that cyclical shit just doesn't work.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
ReunitePangea
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Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men who are always attractive, always enforce those strong boundaries.. don’t get cheated on.

Tryn, this may be true in many situations but not all. You know my situation from the LTA forum well enough - I don't care how attractive the man was, my WW would have cheated on them. There are some amount of broken issues in any WS that in some cases simply can't be fixed by attractiveness.

My WW fully intended on having an affair, its been her M.O. always. Early on I should have been more observant to better recognize the behavior but I was not in any position to change it no matter how hard I tried back than. With myself and my WW much wiser today than we were before, my hope is that now I can change it.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spareparts.. It would idiotic for me to say that there are not woman who are in an endless search for male approval. Let’s face it, they are out there. But that woman who is "that” selfish, wondering why no man is available?? A good man picks that out before a relationship starts. I refuse to believe you are the “complete” opposite of doing those things on that list. No woman would ever submit to you. I am sure you meant that in a different way. “I let “things go” in the name of compromise.” Of course, you can be in a relationship. Sometimes values or needs are mismatched and compromise is a must. “I wasn't able to concentrate 100% of my spare time on her” I didn’t say that. A woman needs her time and a man needs his time. If you did many of those things I listed all of the time, then you would be one of those “clingy” men that woman hate.


wincing_at_light
Yes.. your observation is complete right. I’m not sure I’m intellectually smart enough to place a scale on those things.

*If* you keep in mind, and *always* look through the lens, that you are never responsible for someone else's decisions, it is allowable to me that the disillusionment of unmet expectations can contribute to one spouse's decision to have an affair.

I say there is a cause and effect for everything.

Hah!

It's an interesting question to me, this thing of roles.
Funny you mention this.. Did you know you get less sex if you are a house husband? Lol..

So, if I'm going to change, I'm going to have to do it a bit on the sly.

I definitely recommend that!

So, let's bring this back full circle: I think that part of what tryn is saying is that we should be willing to be courageous. Be willing to stay invested in our own growth and the growth of our spouse. Don't let the weight of our historic roles guide our future, but always try to keep in mind that our spouses are sovereign human beings who are entitled to change, to grow, to fail, to explore...and part of being married is mutually helping one another to do that.

A given in life is that everything changes. What you do on the outside will change things.

I think that in most situations where affairs occur, part of what's happened is that there's been a forgetting of actual unique humanity in both spouses. We look at each other and see the roles they're supposed to fulfill...and fundamentally, roles are boring. They're predictable. They're dull.

Exactly.
"affair proofs" a marriage

There are no absolutes. I strongly believe a very attractive man on the upper end of the scale is that.. attractive. A woman will not take a chance to risk losing this man.
You can't do it by yourself,

No you can’t.. and this is why you insist on it. And if your wife chooses not to be in the M, then she makes the choice to end it, not YOU. You might file the papers because of her fears or indecision.. If you are not filling all her needs, (you had better know them all), then the blame lies at your own feet.

StillGoing… My attitude these days.. I choose to love my little bitch by filling every need she has. She has needs she has no clue are even her needs! I piss her off when I fill them. Seems to me a woman cannot even tell us thier needs. You gotta read through all the feeling talk. In return for my efforts, my W is going to fill my needs in reciprocity….IF not, She is first going to feel pressure.. A non response the pressure increases.. A non response or compromise.. she will feel even more pressure. The final pressure.. my ultimatum. Her choice, not mine… some other woman will welcome my blessings. My W got a pardon because of the man I once was.. Never again.

See.. my value, I don't need my wife. She can join my good world if she wants and enjoy it with me and I will enjoy her. Her choice.

I know that is tough talk.. it is my value. But I since I started filling every need, my wife has naturally started reciprocity. I have had only a few conflicts since last year and all went extremely well, she chose to reciprocate. Last summer, she finally came out of her depression and things really started to improve. The secret reveled.

ReunitePangea
I understand your stuation. The woman you married is still that woman. She will always not repect you until you make her YOUR woman. If you choose to live sharing, that is your choice. You can still be attractive and she will likely cake eat. It is possible, but very hard, you can be that attractive she will then dump any man only to be with you. If you cannot give her that ultimatum I suggested you give her, I don't think she is ever going to respect you. A woman respect a man who protect his turf. Should you decide to give one.. POST FIRST. This will be a heavy conflict. I know there are men on this thread that can help you word it, do it, execute it in the porper way. If a woman is that broken, why then do you want her? I can respect you Immensely for wanting your M for your kids. I know you are compromising. I am ok with that if you are ok with that. But never expect respect.

peace out...

[This message edited by trynhard at 12:02 PM, March 18th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing… My attitude these days.. I choose to love my little bitch by filling every need she has. She has needs she has no clue are even her needs! I piss her off when I fill them. In return for my efforts, my W is going to fill my needs in reciprocity….She is first going to feel pressure.. A non response the pressure increases.. A non response or compromise.. she will fill even more pressure. The final pressure.. my ultimatum. Her choice, not mine… some other woman will welcome my blessings. My W got a pardon because of the man I once was.. Never again.
I know that is tough talk.. it is my value. But I since I started filling every need, my wife has naturally started reciprocity. I have had only a few conflicts since last year and all went extremely well, she chose to reciprocate. Last summer, she finally came out of her depression and things really started to improve. The secret reveled.

That's great and all but correlation does not equal causality. Her meeting your needs is not because you're meeting hers - and the idea that you are meeting needs she doesn't even know she has is absurd, frankly.

It's great you guys have reached a happy medium but, no, that's not how it works for everybody. In fact I will contest that the vast majority of this needs bullshit is what contributes to infidelity the most - people saying "I need this" then still feeling that hole, blame their partner for failing to fill that hole by their stated need.

Also, wtf.. your "little bitch"..? It sounds more like you are training a dog.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing

Yep.. she is my bitch.. lol. that was joke.. I respect my W to the up-most. She endured things no woman should. It is a miracle I am still married to this woman.

You choose to take what I know and use it.. or not. I know this... the results have been most rewarding and the list is long. A sex therapist taught me this. I did not make this up.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
aesir
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Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn, your theory seems to skip over the fact that the one who is most likely to be dissatisfied with a relationship is the one who is contributing the least.

There are lots of studies on that, and it is not one of confusing cause and effect.

That's right, the one who contributes the least to a relationship is the one who is most likely to become dissatisfied. The dissatisfaction comes AFTER the failure to contribute.

If one were to manage to live their life as the relationship paragon embodied in your laundry list, it leaves very little for their spouse to do except develop a feeling of entitlement. Now watch out when that feeling of entitlement goes unfulfilled for a moment. That is why so many trophy wives are just waiting to be awarded to next years winner.

I knew this old french couple that came into my restaurant 3 times a day for the seniors coffee special and something to eat. Neither one of them ever had time to fulfill that list, they had raised a large family (as French Canadians used to do) in a small house, he worked long hours in a mine, while she raised the children (6 or 8). Then there were all of lifes other struggles. As they approached 90, they still had the same goofy look in their eyes that my teenage employees had when they thought they found someone to exchange body fluids with.

As for human beings being shiny like WAL stated, if I ever have a trophy wife, I hope mine says participant.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
aesir
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Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn, your theory seems to skip over the fact that the one who is most likely to be dissatisfied with a relationship is the one who is contributing the least.

There are lots of studies on that, and it is not one of confusing cause and effect.

That's right, the one who contributes the least to a relationship is the one who is most likely to become dissatisfied. The dissatisfaction comes AFTER the failure to contribute.

If one were to manage to live their life as the relationship paragon embodied in your laundry list, it leaves very little for their spouse to do except develop a feeling of entitlement. Now watch out when that feeling of entitlement goes unfulfilled for a moment. That is why so many trophy wives are just waiting to be awarded to next years winner.

I knew this old french couple that came into my restaurant 3 times a day for the seniors coffee special and something to eat. Neither one of them ever had time to fulfill that list, they had raised a large family (as French Canadians used to do) in a small house, he worked long hours in a mine, while she raised the children (6 or 8). Then there were all of lifes other struggles. As they approached 90, they still had the same goofy look in their eyes that my teenage employees had when they thought they found someone to exchange body fluids with.

As for human beings being shiny like WAL stated, if I ever have a trophy wife, I hope mine says participant.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
RyeBread
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Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey gents,

Not to t/j but I don't post here much and need to get some perspective from my fellow men. WW and I are divorcing. No papers have been filed yet though we've talked about it and I've made myself clear that I want a D. I've agreed to hold off on filing till she has a job and can support herself. This isn't hard for her since she quit her job a year ago and was making more than I was (see below).

Quick background... My wife doesn't work. Not because she can't or because we have little ones that need taking care of. She doesn't work because I've been a sucker. Last summer my WW wanted to quit work to look for a job that she really wanted(her words) since she finally got her college degree. The previous 2.5yrs she had been working part time and going to school. I wasn't too keen on her quitting work for the summer and told her I didn't like the idea but if she felt that strongly about it then I'd support her. We came up with a plan for her to take the summer off and find a job after two months. After that 2 months if she didn't find a full time job she had to find something part time because we couldn't make it financially after that. Needless to say, 10 months later she still isn't working. I get promises promises but nothing. At this point she's milking this. FYI - During her "summer of fun" is when the A happened. She has also borrowed money from her father but I feel that is only manipulating the situation to allow her to continue to stay at home and do nothing.

We are at a point now where she has to work. I repeat, HAS to work. I could take a second job part time making peanuts (which i'll do if I have to) but I feel that it is enabling her lack of personal responsibility. She hasn't changed her lifestyle and goes out with friends and buys things forcing me to sacrifice the things I want to pay the bills. If I have to do that so should she, at least in my mind.

Here is what I am thinking to start:
1. Next paycheck (this friday) take some money and open my own personal checking account.
2. Tell her that she has until May to get a job. At that time I will be depositing my entire paycheck in my own personal account.
3. I will continue to pay the bills until she finds a full time job. We will then split the bills 50/50 when that occurs. Until then the rest of her spending is on her to figure out. Her responsibilities include her health insurance (she has her own policy), her car insurance, her car payment her personal hygiene items, fun money etc.

I've been sacrificing for her "dreams and aspirations" (which change constantly) for the last 2.5yrs, more so the last 10 months, and I'm no longer going to let her take advantage of me. Its time for her to buck up.

I'm looking for anyone who has been in a similar situation or has experience with this. Be gentle with the 2x4's if you can. I am where I am and I'm working on trying to get out of the situation.

Thanks.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn, your theory seems to skip over the fact that the one who is most likely to be dissatisfied with a relationship is the one who is contributing the least.

You must have the courage to conflict. If you don't then you will get a woam who contributes nothing.. The question you must answer or yourself.. Why are you willing to put up with a non contruuting spouse?

But, if you are not stellar first, forget about it. It won't work.

Does your job have reviews? When you have a bad reveiw, what do you do? Some dumb people will stick around until the get fired. You should buckle down and do what they want, if not, you leave and find a job better suited for your personality. One where it is not so demanding. But a less demanding job gets less pay.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure what you think I should take away from there other than tell my wife what she needs and give it to her whether or not she wants it.

Which is fun for role playing nights but outside of relentlessly rapacious fucking with a safeword just isn't my style.

I'm not being snide when I say it's great that works for you guys. I just can't see that as boundaries and self-respect the way you present it.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rye, it sounds like a good plan but talk to a lawyer to see what you can and can't do legally. You may be able to go further than that.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing
No snide taken.. be open with me. I can take it.

OK.. I'll hear you out.. What part is

I just can't see that as boundaries and self-respect the way you present it.

Are you saying there is no self respect in making the choice to love your woman the best possible way? I'm not sure I am following? I have stories I can tell you.. plus those of other men I know who have done exactly the same.

Give me an example and I will try to get more detailed.. But I must go love my job a bit..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, didn't mean it that way. I think showing your wife all your love is great. Though obviously, time and a place.

I mean being perfect for her. I am not interested in being married to someone who can't accept the fact that I'm not going to be perfect all the time. That list? It's something to fix, yes, but it's bullshit when it's held up as a reason to do things that are essentially list items themselves.

I want my wife to have enough personality and strength of will to have her own boundaries and leave the relationship instead of sneak around and use a bucket list of disappointments as an excuse to lie and cheat. She can expect that from me as well.

Bending over backwards to tick those items off just to keep her honest sounds like a fools errand, given our esteemed company.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
HoldingTogether
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Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard,

That's quite the laundry list you made there of personality flaws to avoid if you don't want your wife sucking some other guys Johnson. So am I to assume that you have perfect 100% compliance with all of those many factors? Good on ya mate! Personally, maintaining consistent perfection in all areas of personal relationships seems like an awfully high fucking bar to clear to me. Sounds like an awful lot of pressure to put on oneself. Of course if falling down on the job has the CERTAIN outcome of my wife riding my best friends cock? Well maybe I best get to work huh?

Personally though I like to imagine that it is possible to have a relationship with a little give and take. One where I don't always have to be perfect and my wife doesn't either. One where we can help pick each other up when the other falls down. One where, although neither of us may ever be perfect we love, honor, cherish and respect one another anyway.

That's not to say I think it's ok to throw all aspects of personal grooming, emotional validation and, what the hell, doing the occasional load of fuckin laundry out the window. Heavens no. And I never fucking did. And yet my wife ended up fuckin my best friend. What need exactly is it that I failed to fulfill do you think?

Never mind, it's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer. After all I have spent the last 3 years working on figuring that shit out.

Turns out the need I failed to fulfill was my wife's need for me to fully convince her that I wanted needed and loved her more desperately than she was capable of believing that I did.

See I did love, cherish and want my wife. And I did a whole lot of things throughout the course of our relationship to show her that. Everything on your list perfectly every single day? Shit no! Of course not! But more consistently than any other husband or boyfriend that either of us fucking knew? Absolutely. But you know what? That need of my wife's that I was failing to fulfill?

That shit was a bucket with no fucking bottom.

I wasn't ever going to be able to fulfill that need because her self esteem and sense of self worth were so immensely fucked up that NO one was going to be able to convince her that they loved her that way. Not over the long haul anyway. Because she herself didn't feel worthy of that kind of love.

Sure enough some other douchbag comes along and starts to really go after her. Well he might not want her need her or love her as much as she needs but he certainly gives the appearance of wanting her needing her and loving her more than she has convinced herself that I do. More is better than less right? So off she goes.

And you know what? Both she and I are absolutely certain that if she had ended up being with that fuckstick instead of me the whole dysfunctional dynamic would have ended up playing out between the two of them sooner rather than later.

Soon enough he wouldn't have loved her as much as she needed. Course she would never give any indication of that to him, just like I never got any indication myself. She would have continued to have the long internal conversations with herself about how unhappy with her he must surely be, how he didn't find her attractive anymore, how he was probably just waiting for a chance to get out of this relationship he was trapped in.

All just exactly the same as the ones she kept having about me all without the fucking benefit of including me in the fuckin process so that I might contributed 2 cents to the debate.

I don't know. Maybe you have the right answer for your situation. If so good luck to you brother. God fucking forbid you ever have a bad year though. Heaven forbid you hit a patch of bad luck that knocks the pins out from other you and fouls up your flawless system of husbandly perfection. Cause you seem to be pretty certain of what the outcome of THAT will be.

Or maybe, just maybe your wife might surprise you, its even possible she will be like mine and will have done enough work on herself, is strong enough now herself, to carry on being a decent human being even when you fall down. And hell, if your lucky, maybe she might even help pick you up while she's at it.

Just my thought, I could be wrong. After all I'm just as full of shit as everyone else.

HT


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

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