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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be clear, I would not have literally punched my wife in the skull.

Just because one spouse chooses to be abusive via infidelity never changed my boundary about not being an abuser.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Marcus Aurelius had some good shit, yes.

"He was a man who looked at what ought to be done, not to the reputation which is got by a man's acts."

eta:

And for every new BS to live by:

"Give thyself time to learn something new and good, and cease to be whirled around. "

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:25 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...opportunity to grow...
...that clueless...

My WW did not mean it as an opportunity to grow. More along the lines of acceptance.

She is clueless in part I have to admit. I really can't figure which part though.

She know's she broken. She is very religious yet lives knowing that she willingly chose to finally complete breaking all 10 commandments.

Her words and that of M.A. make sense to me now as I have hit the acceptance phase of this sh*t. I see her for what she is and all the things I was in denial of during the M.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Cannon
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Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh. I've just lost any little vestige of respect I may have had for XWW after this weekend.

She invited one of the dudes she cheated with up for a visit this weekend (which seemed to include a "sleepover" last night).

Anyway, my oldest boy's little league opener was Saturday, and she sent me an email asking if I was going with the other two kids because she wanted to bring "a friend". I took her bait like an idiot and asked who the "friend" was which she refused to answer.

I got pretty hot and said I didn't care as long as it wasn't PA#1 or PA#2, because I think that would be incredibly disrespectful to the kids to bring them around. She said that's why she was asking if I was going with the younger ones, and that our little leaguer wouldn't see them "in the crowd" or would just assume he was a friend of hers.

After she decided that was a bad idea, she said she'd be available until 2, but the game was at 2:30. I said I'd cancel my other plans with the young kids so SOME parent would be at or son's game. TO her SHAME, she agreed with that. Didn't offer to cancel or delay her plans - just was willing to miss her son's opening day for her fuckbuddy.

The game ended up being rained out, so I took all the kids to a breastcancer fundraiser carnival instead. She started in on the texting then, saying she wanted to change her name back to her maiden name, because my name "had no meaning anymore" (as if I give a fuck)

Oh, did I mention she didn't call the kids last night either? Guess she was busy, had a dick in her mouth, something.

Goddamn I was (and still am) livid. I took the kids to church today for Palm Sunday (and to get a little peace) and she texted later saying "thanks for taking them...I drove by the church on my way to brunch" (trying to rub it in, of course)

Oh, the best was Friday, before her sex romp began (and she knew I knew fuckbuddy was coming) she asked to come by the house to get a couple of things. I said she could, but I may not be home from picking the kids up from school, but she was welcome to go ahead.

When I got in, she was waiting outside in her van. She came in with me, made sure I saw that she was getting two wine glasses, then started to leave. I said, "Didn't you want to get the blanket and those clothes?" to which she replied "I already got them".

So, to get this straight...you got what you needed, waited until I got home, then came back in so I could see that you got two wine glasses for the weekend? Rock on, ho

[This message edited by Cannon at 2:12 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Canon, you keep coming out on top. You got some extra QT with your kids that you will always remember.

Your STBXWW keeps on showing you what she is really about. Maybe this is a question for our oracle WAL, but I wonder do A's change people (like a switch) or do they just remove mask layers revealing what was there all along?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
wonderingbull
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Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but I wonder do A's change people (like a switch) or do they just remove mask layers revealing what was there all along?

I truly do believe the A substantially changed the ex.... The OM she chose is a charming, deviant and violent NPD...

There was something he did or they did that truly flipped a switch... I know her physically roughed her up.... There was never any violence of any kind in our lives...

When we did try a version of R she got very violent with me... To the point that she stole my dog at gun point... She hit me and shoved me a few times and I had to call the cops... It's like the OM flipped a "violence" switch...

The sex changed dramatically too... It was like she was trying to be a porn star... Fun for a while for me but there was never again any intimacy...

There would have been no one or anyone anywhere that would have believed the ex would do what she did....

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was sort of wondering what MC 'should' be like? I like our MC in terms of comfort level, but the sessions seem to have a nebulous feeling, like there's no clear direction we're headed, outside of "How has the past week been?", which sort of acts as a springboard of sorts. I guess I feel like we're lacking direction.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1587 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So here's some unrelated irony: I decided to put up another couple of books today, one that I've been giving away for free for years under a Creative Commons license about my time spent working in addictions. (The other is the one I think of as my "Angry Man's Guide to Surviving Infidelity" that several of you have read and given great feedback on.)

So I get this e-mail from the kind folks at Amazon about the addictions one telling me that they're always on guard to protect authors' copyrights and asking me to provide documentation that I'm the copyright holder. Part of the backstory here is that I've had to contact Amazon in the past because people were swiping this manuscript off free sites and trying to sell their own Kindle editions.

So I find myself in the curious position of having to prove to Amazon that I'm who I say I am...despite the fact that they've had my name, credit card info, bank account, etc. (as well as one small press novel put out by a different publisher as far back as 2003) for years and years.

And the fact is that I have no idea how to prove that I am who I say I am and that I own the rights to this novel that I've given away more than 10k times over the last four years. I mean, I guess I cold always give them my driver's license number. It's not like I ever officially registered the copyright. The whole point of the copyright laws is that you don't *have* to -- it's just an extra layer of protection in the event that you want to sue pirates.

Just goes to show that no good deed ever goes unpunished.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe this is a question for our oracle WAL, but I wonder do A's change people (like a switch) or do they just remove mask layers revealing what was there all along?

I used to think that I had a stock answer for this ("circumstances don't change character, they reveal it")...but at this distance from D-Day, I don't know that I believe that anymore.

The truth is that I don't have a good take on this issue because in my case, the infidelity is all tied up with my wife's first manic episode as an undiagnosed bipolar. She was changing dramatically during that time period -- emotionally, mentally, sexually -- but I don't know how much of it was the affair/secrecy/entitlement, how much was mental illness, and how much was the two factors feeding off of each other.

I do know that she had to do a hell of a lot of work to recover and rebuild herself from the crater of her own self-definition that she left behind...and at this stage in our recovery, that's what really matters to me.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Happydays
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Member # 38681
Default  Posted: 3:53 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, to get this straight...you got what you needed, waited until I got home, then came back in so I could see that you got two wine glasses for the weekend? Rock on, ho

@canon, man you have some patience bro. The entire post was a running chainsaw running through you head first. You clearly deserve a standing ovation for what bore and how you reacted.
It's time to show you too are moving on.


BH 33
FWW 32
DS: 3 year old.
Dday 10/14/2012
No remorse so:
Divorced 02/15/2013. No alimony, no CS, got apartment. Won all battles and mind games off the courts.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Mar 2013
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cannon-

Wow. Jesus. You are a much nicer person that I would've been.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1587 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And the fact is that I have no idea how to prove that I am who I say I am and that I own the rights to this novel that I've given away more than 10k times over the last four years. I mean, I guess I cold always give them my driver's license number. It's not like I ever officially registered the copyright. The whole point of the copyright laws is that you don't *have* to -- it's just an extra layer of protection in the event that you want to sue pirates.

That's good to know, I thought it was just a checkbox for KDP. Not that I have the balls to actually try to publish anything. I think the "Your shit is too creepy and doesnt have a happy ending" rejection letters from Weird Tales may have cut deeper than I previously thought.

Speaking of, would you mind throwing me a PM of your experiences with KDP in case I find my testicles in a drawer somewhere? If you do mind you can throw other shit instead, that's cool. Except spiders. Don't throw handfuls of spiders. That's not cool. Handfuls of spiders are on the Things That Are Never Cool list, which means even if it involves anime or a Neil Patrick Harris cameo. Writhing pack of tentacle dicks that can only be defeated by a pixie vagina that explosively orgasms Shining Fluid of Goodness? It works in anime. Handfuls of spiders don't. I forget what I was talking about because my kids are "doing homework" which means I need to go put someone in the foul box for 5 minutes and dress down the other one for holding the instigators head in his lunchbox and shouting creative non-obscenities.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, I see you've been reading Pratchett again.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3299 | Registered: Dec 2011
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PM shot, sir.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
RyeBread
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Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, March 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Yesterday I was catching my therapist up on all the shit WW has been putting me through since the last IC appointment 4 weeks ago. Finally my C stopped me and asked "So what are you going to do about that?" At first I was a little pissed that I wasn't able to finish my diatribe. Then my C goes on to explain that I come into IC and give verbal diahrea about WW. She said that I have made progress but I try to make myself "right", basically be a victim. I didn't realize I did that. I always thought my WW did that, which she does. But really it doesn't matter. For some reason it clicked. I gave up control of my life to the M and my WW. I lost myself big time and I'm mad at WW instead of myself for giving me up like that. I'm really the one responsible for getting back some power. For me that involves a D at this point.

I have been dealing with some major guilt about wanting a D. I felt selfish for it. Like, who am I to walk away from trying. But you know what? I know that it's over for me. In my heart I know it. Even if I said "OK lets give R a go." I know I wouldn't be able to put in my share of the effort. The A was the dealbreaker for me period. I don't have to prove shit, I don't have to justify wanting to go, I don't have to defend myself anymore. I don't want to be here and that is good enough. I've posted on SI to others that very same thing because I knew it intellectually, and I thought I had that view. Maybe deep down if I was telling that to others I just might believe it too. I don't just believe it now, I KNOW it. I have some sense of peace that I can move forward from this without guilt. WW has played on that a long time and I let her. I am susceptible to that kind of manipulation (thanks FOO) and am much more aware of that.

I don't know what I am getting at really other than I feel like I had a breakthrough and feel in a way liberated with a new level of understanding of myself. +1 for IC. Time to buck up and get this D rolling. I've been procrastinating for a variety of reasons but there is really no excuse. I want my sense of self back. I have some attorneys researched and it's time to make some calls.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, March 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That sounds great, Rye.

You're letting go of outcomes...or rather, letting go of the dream of a different past. Instead, you're taking control of your life and ready to face it with courage.

You're accepting the reality of now. Doesn't mean it won't be hard. Doesn't mean you'll always like it...but you're not fighting for what *was* out of habit. You're fighting for what you choose, recognizing that some things aren't worth saving. It's looking at the world with eyes wide open.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good IC, but it's even cooler to me that you let her get to you -- and then, instead of getting pissed off when she threw you a curve, you dug into it and found your way through to an answer.

Awesome.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
DWBH
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Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're letting go of outcomes...

That is one of the most liberating feelings; it took me 7 months after DDay to reach that point, but it felt wonderful when I finally let go. For me, it was all fear-based. Fear of the unknown, fear of how it would affect my children, fear of being alone, etc. What I realized in April of last year, right before I discovered SI, was that I no longer feared any outcome and told my W what had to happen for us to even have a chance at R.

I feel fortunate that we're making it work and still together, and I still need to remind myself occasionally that the outcome can't drive my behavior now.


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, March 29th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm asking this in all seriousness...what is the functional difference between "letting go of the outcome" and "not giving a shit"...?

That's not supposed to sound mocking, by the way. Apologies if it does.

I understand that going through life attempting to corral people into making the choices you want them to make and being the person you want them to be is a surefire path to unhappiness and crazyville. So I understand that, to a degree.

I guess what I'm saying is: that when it comes to the ones we love (be they family or spouse), isn't part and parcel of that loving relationship sharing your accumulated knowledge, experience, and wisdom with them to at least try to help them to make sound choices? Not force them to, but 'nudge'? Otherwise aren't you just treating your loved ones with the same "hands off" attitude and emotional distance we associate with a random person on the street?

I mean, if I'm not to SOME degree emotionally invested in the outcomes of the choices of the people I choose to surround myself with, then why surround myself with those people in the first place?

I mean, I'm fairly new to the whole counseling scene, and whatnot...but it seems as if "letting go of the outcome" can seem to be (to me, anyway)....I don't know....emotionally lazy? The easy way out? I just have a hard time understanding how you can love and be close to anyone and NOT be emotionally invested in the outcomes of their decisions, you know?

I know that was rambly, sorry. I have to get to work.

eta: Also, does "letting go of the outcome" mean that you cannot have a preferred outcome? That you really don't care what happens?

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:47 AM, March 29th (Friday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1587 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
hardlessons
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Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, March 29th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

difference between "letting go of the outcome" and "not giving a shit"...?

Not giving a shit I believe has a healthy dose of apathy and anger. The feeling you get when the DGAS meter is pegged in the red..

I think letting go of the outcomes means that you are Not going to corral others or try to control their actions by your actions. Because as much as I would like to think I have control I really don't and if I do is that really what I want to be my role?

Does this mean that you have to accept what others do? Hell no, boundaries are still in place, your expectations for treatment are still in place. In a cynical world you would liken it to being a Rope salesman, give them all the rope they need/want..

In my world I want real interaction from my W, I have lived by defined roles all my life and that sucks. Part of that role was trying to control outcomes with my behavior and that didn't work out so well. Good question FP


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, March 29th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

.what is the functional difference between "letting go of the outcome" and "not giving a shit".

Functionally? Nothing.

Letting go of the outcome, to me, is rooted in knowing that no matter what happens life is going to go on and you're going to be okay. Sure, the circumstances of your life might change -- you might be a bachelor, for instance -- but you know that if that comes to pass, you'll still go on to a fulfilling, desirable life.

I don't think that precludes having a preference, by any means. Nor does it preclude having a goal and working toward that. To me, letting go of the outcome means that I will work towards that goal in a reasonable fashion and in a way that respects myself and my boundaries, but I won't sacrifice any of the essential pieces of myself in order to achieve the goal. I won't compromise who I am or what I believe in just to claim the prize.

Here's an illustration: You want a new job. You even need a new job. You get called for an interview at a great company who has advertised for a position with outstanding benefits, a high salary, lots of prestige, and doing something you know you'll love. You go to the interivew, having prepped all of your shit, gotten a haircut, bought a new suit, polished up your resume, etc.

You nail it. You impress everyone. You start to feel pretty confident in your chances.

A week later, they call you in for the second round of interviews. You're elated. In the second round, the interviewer tells you that you're their top candidate, but they need to see how you're going to fit in with the office culture. They tell you that at times, in order to protect the company's reputation, part of the job might entail lying to the press about certain activities. Maybe this job has some ties to the defense industry, and occasionally you'll need to fudge some numbers, maybe, because telling the truth will put American troops in harm's way.

You really want this job. You also have issues with lying to people. Do you tell them you're cool with that? That you're not cool with it? That you'd need to have a deeper understanding before you can say one way or the other?

Letting go of the outcomes means that I'm going to be true to myself first. I'm going to stand up for my principles...and if I get the job, great. If I don't, then that's also great, because I didn't compromise myself in order to get it.

There is a degree of emotional investment, because you really want that fucking job! You want all of the ways that it will transform your life circumstances for the better -- but you're also not willing to re-draw your ethical lines in order to get it.

If being married to someone means I have to sacrifice core pieces of who I am and what I believe in order to maintain the relationship, then I'm letting the relationship re-draw the lines of what is acceptable for me in terms of how I view myself. I'm letting the outcome (keeping the relationship) determine my ethics rather than letting my ethics determine whether or not the relationship is viable, useful, beneficial, or desirable.

I realized a long time ago that I'll never be wealthy because I don't have the desire to do the sorts of things that it takes to be wealthy: go to business school, for example. Regularly work 14-16 hour days in order to get a business off the ground. The guys I know who are wealthy don't even care about what it is that they're doing/selling. They care about the *business* of doing/selling, not the products or services: hardwood flooring vs. big tobacco -- doesn't make a difference. I'm not built like that. I have no doubt that I *could* be, if I wanted to set that as a goal, but it's not something that would particularly fire me up, you know? The outcome of being wealthy would not be worth all of the years of toil and sacrifice, missing time with my kids, etc., in order to obtain it.

I'd still prefer to be wealthy, all other things being equal, but not at the cost of sacrificing the things that are important to me.


Machiavellian idiot savant

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