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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks. Some shit I really needed to hear. It's been a rough 24-ish hours in my headspace.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That kind of hate gets all Sith and shit and then you're shooting lightning out of your cock and killing small dogs to replenish magic power or something.

And also...this ^^^? Awesome. If only. Thanks again.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...if I truly felt some of the things that I uttered about her why in the hell would I ever want to try reconciliation?

Because feelings change. For me, at least, it was really that simple.

I kept my mouth shut at home very frequently when I was raging because I always knew that my feelings would be different 24 hours now from. I might be incredibly angry today, but more than likely, I'd be okay tomorrow or the day after. Why burn the house down just for the joy of watching it all go down in flames when I'd more than likely feel more amenable to the idea of living there tomorrow?

Being cognizant that "the way I feel right now" is about nothing more than *how I feel* and not about reality is one of the key signposts on the road to emotional maturity, I suspect.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wert
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Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry wert, I get you now.

No worries. I re-read what I wrote and can see how it could be misconstrued.

The activity you are engaged in is what your brain has to focus on. Since you are tuned into rage on this guy, everything is associated with that. IMO you need to occupy yourself with other shit to start tuning him out. Worry about de-associating this guy once you have enough tools to do it. Operate in survival mode until you get there.

Good stuff right there. Nothing wrong with being angry, just recognize that it most likely won't get you what you want. I will say that separating myself out from my brains stupid preaching via meditation was very helpful with OM. I have not garnered some inner peace about him or anything, but I have come to terms with his irrelevance. It's been nice. I mean there are jerks around every corner for my W to meet. It's my hope she is teaching herself not to jump on one.

[This message edited by wert at 2:55 PM, April 8th (Monday)]



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of my good friends, now divorced and was cheated on. He a good man, worked in a plant, good provider and wore a uniform. Great father. He was quality in every about every way. He worked hard to please his wife as she had dreams of becoming a country singer. He even borrowed $5k so she could make a demo in Nashville so she could live her purpose. She would complain to him about him having a “regular man’s job”.. wore a uniform everyday to work. He did really know what was missing in his wife, this hole that needed to be filled. He worked so hard from line operator to get promoted to shift supervisor. Still, he wore that uniform. See, he would go out drinking with his friends separate from his wife. He let her have that freedom too until the early mornings. Nothing wrong with that huh? One day, he discovered she was fucking the owner of a bar.

WTF.. she’s messed up. Well, yes she was. She trotted right on down that slippery slope path because that’s what we do, right? That was part of their demise. But yes there is more. That damn uniform she had No respect for. Dammit, he was doing so much for her, yet she just could not respect him for who he was. That is not what he wanted but that is what he got.

See, a woman needs to respect her man.

A need of a woman is… A man needs to give back to his community.. A man needs to be a leader. Yes, that was on that list. Did your parents teach you that? Perhaps some did and other didn’t.

What my friend didn’t know was and what his wife could not tell him was that she did not respect his job… She tried. Because she wanted and needed someone who she could admire and respect. My buddy loved and respected himself and yes that should be enough, after all, he was a good man. But in all relationships, what you think is not necessarily what your wife thinks. She had this hole to fill he was not filling. She just couldn’t tell him exactly what she needed.

I can never tell you the outcome of something that never happened, but I do know that quality men have something special about them. Perhaps that one item would have eliminated some of her need to fill that hole. Perhaps him putting his foot down when she went drinking single coming in at midnight. I cannot fault him for not knowing, but had he been a different man, my bet is he would still be married to this woman. I know men who’s wives never cheated (or at least never got caught) never stood for that kind of behavior. Plus, quality men have a certain kind of way of communicating, he could have opened her up to a point and just maybe he could have figured out that hole.

I can only imagine his response because I know him… when she cut him down for wearing that uniform. Stop saying that bitch, it’s my job.. go away.. or in his case make up for it by throwing away money in an unrealistic way of going about finding her purpose.

My buddy could have run for local county commissioner. He could have been a leader at his church. He could have join a club and become an officer, been on a charity board, neighborhood board, lead toastmasters, headed something up at the school, the list goes on. When the organization, newspapers, others then speak highly of his efforts, how do you think his wife would have felt?

Now my buddy is divorced because he left her. He also change himself. She can also now see not too many quality men want her. She was a bit too demanding and she forgot to put her mask back on.. Perhaps a quality man won’t put up with that shit in the romance phase. You’d better be on your best behavior. I saw his x-wife working at sub shop which at one time was waayyyyy beneath her ego. Meanwhile, my buddy got promoted because he is a good man. Guess what? He does not wearing a uniform. He is the boss. She begged him to come back now because he is more attractive managing 40+ men and head of softball league. Too late, he’s since attracted a good woman who appreciates him for who he is today… a far better man too.

No, I did not have my buddy’s problems. I have always lead something. Although I am sure we had some of the personalities. All marriages leave the romantic phase.

Here is some of the FOO some seem to dismiss. My wife was the youngest and the only girl in a family with three older brothers. My wife’s oldest brother was 10 years older. The attention my wife got as a child was far greater than a stupid naive kid could give at age 20. My parents were not those type. I could stand on my own without affirmations.

Oh the sex was so good back then. We fucked like rabbits. My W came out of abusive physical abortion relationship to snag me. A fine Catholic woman who killed a baby. And me at the time.. I convinced myself, that was not a baby, it was like a toe nail clipped, no my wife was not a bad woman. All that guilt she stored inside me not knowing.. and me that confident cocky kid there to end her grief. After all, who would make love so good and often and be that bad?

Heck, my marriage was 29 years ago. Hard to remember so long ago, however we save the Pre-Cana books we both wrote to each other. I have the good fortune to jog my memory with my writings. Yep, at the peak of mating season. An easy fuck no real need to be romantic as it came pretty easy for the confident kid completely successful in High School and college. Attention? I was the on one who did it all.. golfing all the time before she took that away.. for the good of the relationship. Sure too, I had my buddies to go out with and come home late. Me a flirt? Never.. got lucky that is.. Just timing I suppose. No way my wife goes out and flirts of falls for the snake charmer. After all, I had that “I do”.

Of course, after I graduated college, I was focused so much on making money.. my sights on my career. Romance? As long as she is fucking me.. all is well. Early in the marriage, that night she came in at 3:30 am after being out with her friends was when I put my foot down. The secrets seem to always come out don’t they? only for her to get that A that off her chest years later. She called that immaturity.

So I moved her away from her close family. Me, I had moved from my parents and already cut that umbilical cord. Never really got cut for my wife. Did I understand that attention? Nope.

For the years following, had kids, never really knew what she was really saying, I shut her down with some simple words. “oh don’t think that”, “you shouldn’t feel that way”.. etc.. She tried to tell me something was just not right, but she just could not describe it… nor was I prepared to listen. Meanwhile, I traveled the country describing to my beautiful wife all the good things I did and saw. Those sporting events with customers, the fancy restaurants, big cities.. etc.. So I do what all men try to do, fix it. I put her through college, I encourage her to get a job.. never interfered with her going out and thinking she all is fine because she could not really tell me her inner feelings without it being critical or me pushing them back at her. See, I was never intimate like I am today. To share those deepest fears and desires.

Let’s see? No attention like she was accustom to as a child (lack of affirmations), lack of romance we all fall into, away from her family, my traveling (mis-match times), focused on totally on my kids, work in front of wife, all under the security of the “I do”..

Along come Mr. wonderful who is also broken.. a man with a lack of romance himself, He’s on TV commercials (wow), multi-millionaire, his wife all concerned with sick his helpless child who never will have quality of life, the heart just wrenches.. a snake charmer by default. Who wouldn’t want to fuck my cute little hot body wife? It only took him 6 months or so.

Me? Wonder why she all the sudden stopped wanting me? Bewildered.. told to crawl back under my rock.

the perfect storm…

Oh her plans were to leave me when my DD was out of HS. Oh how she waited for my one big mistake so she could leave holding her head high with ego intact. Little did she know the consequences because it was far too easy under that heavy security blanket and easy opportunity. It got pretty bad at the end. I myself was snaking charming a woman at work.

Oh how Sigmund Freud nails it with the pain of finding out your new identity. Boy was my ego completely destroyed. Sent me into mental illness.

My wife, “It just happened”

So Wert, in a way you are right. “She wanted to”

Yep.. my situation seems to be very typical…attention. I would say right in the middle of the ole bell curve for reasons. Excuse? No. Reasons? Yes.

Let me introduce myself.. 3 months of weekly listening to way too many cheating men, cheating woman, hours of gut wrenching discussions with my W, 6 months of Retrouvaille, $1000’s in IC, near death.. (me wanting to kill OM), years of reading many heart breaking stories here and over a year of therapy.

One thing I know from all that.. Change yourself because our parents didn’t teach us everything. Search, know and execute ever need of a woman. Leave your wife to fix herself. She does not want to join your happy world.. Protecting boundaries and healthy conflict will weed a bad woman out of you life. You be quality in ever way to protect all your bases, protect every boundary no matter how small, never crawl under a rock, be a man that says things the correct way, have reasonable expectations and enforce your expectations with consequences with courage every time. Protect yourself. This will build back up your self esteem and end your grief. Take personal responsibility for yourself and let the chips fall.

Discover the reason, decide if you want to forgive, execute quality and stop thinking of it as an excuse. Stop fixing your wife and let her fix herself.

You want to R, you start executing being more quality. You keep doing all those good things you already do and you start doing new things I mentioned.

RyeBread

I'm truly curious what you think a woman's role/responsibility is to her husband.

Being Loved…
My wife romances me
My wife says words that build me up
My wife give me positive affirmation
My wife is thankful for the things I do
My wife has sex with me on her own free will and never gives me maintenance sex.
My wife enjoy sex with me and makes a point to get into it every time
My wife does not trade sex for gifts
My wife is adventurous in with sex.
My wife services me by doing her fair share
My wife works hard to build our wealth
My wife holds my hand and kisses me often
My wife never criticizes me, she only tells me what she wants.
My wife corrects my bad behaviors in a loving way.. “I don’t want you to do that”
My wife gives me gifts like new cloths
My wife cooks for me
My wife let me enjoy the things I enjoy
My wife lets me be a man, she does not do those things a man must do
My wife care for my kids in a good way
My wife forgives me when I screw up
My wife is completely open to me when she makes a mistake
My wife has her own things she enjoys and I am not to interfere
My wife does not waste money on selfish things
My wife defends me when I am attacked
My wife will take care of our property
My wife is on time and does what she says she is going to do
My wife believes in God
My wife bring new adventures into my life
My wife is nice
My wife will tell me things in a different way to affirm me
My wife encourages me when I am down
My wife is positive to the best of her ability
My wife does not complain or nag. She tells me what she wants.
My wife visions a good future with US.
My wife does community service
My wife communicate her values to me
My wife makes me laugh
My wife is unashamed to tell me what she wants.
My wife looks up to me because I earned it.
My wife matches our hours together
My wife takes the time just to talk everyday.
My wife is real and genuine, not fake in any way.
My wife does not focus on any other man when I am in the room.
My wife avoid all male relationships outside work unless I am completely Ok with it.
My wife entertains me with different things.
My wife will live her life in fidelity.
My wife keeps no records of wrongs
My wife is kind to other people
My wife Compromises with the things I want.

FacePunched
Go get third party help or you are going to bust that man up and ruin your own future. I have been there brother. Walk away brother.. Make plan.. walk away.. focus only on you being quality. Quality will be attractive and good will come your way.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
dday3302011
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Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps that one item would have eliminated some of her need to fill that hole

Perhaps if he was the CEO of fucking Google it wouldn't have mattered. He wore a uniform so that was the reason she cheated? What a crock of shit. She obviously didn't respect him but it wasn't because he wore a uniform and she didn't like what he did for a living. That's a fucking cop-out of the highest order.

Trynhard, I agree with your message about becoming a better man, in fact this


Protecting boundaries and healthy conflict will weed a bad woman out of you life. You be quality in ever way to protect all your bases, protect every boundary no matter how small, never crawl under a rock, be a man that says things the correct way, have reasonable expectations and enforce your expectations with consequences with courage every time. Protect yourself. This will build back up your self esteem and end your grief. Take personal responsibility for yourself and let the chips fall.

is how we all should try to live and what most of us wish we had known without the A's our WW's had.

But your message is confusing to me. Know thyself, AND know her, know her every need even if she won't/can't tell you. I don't get it. It's not some magical formula we can decipher through your mixed messages.

Take the fucking sales pitch somewhere else. There are people who are hurting badly and who don't need to be sold a paradigm of shit. They're trying to recover from an unimaginable trauma. I think everyone would appreciate it if you'd consider them and their feelings rather than simply your own.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn, the problem I have with your posts is that you take some solid advice and pack it down with borderline insulting bullshit. Like any man that does not fit your description isn't a good man, or perfect man, and that women are subservient little things that need to be told what to do, and that if we don't tell them then we're not man enough to own them.

As with all things, we take what we can use and leave the rest. There's not much worth taking from your post IMO but I will excise them:

Protecting boundaries and healthy conflict will weed a bad woman out of you life.

You be quality in ever way to protect all your bases, protect every boundary no matter how small, never crawl under a rock, be a man that says things the correct way, have reasonable expectations and enforce your expectations with consequences with courage every time.

Protect yourself.

Stop fixing your wife and let her fix herself.

Those are all excellent pieces of advice.

Finally, on a personal note re: leadership - lead yourself.

A king can rule but a warrior is always free. That 40 man softball team wouldn't be much if every one of them were leaders in the way you're saying a man has to be.

The greatest armies in the world ruled Pax Romana not because of its leaders, but because its men could take orders and do what they had to do. True leadership is just self discipline. It's not just some community thing.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7118 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
aesir
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Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trynhard, you are suffering from the delusion of control. Infidelity is an immature subject as far as counselling goes, but I would suggest that the same approach applied to rape victim counselling would be rightly bashed very hard, you know, don't try to look attractive or dress attractive or indicate that you may be capable of coitus... and then it won't happen to you.

It doesn't work that way.

As for the whole dreams of being a country singer, it's not that she could not respect her husband because of his job, it was that she could not respect her husband because he was merely a tool towards her goal of having the country singer lifestyle she imagined. The bar owner probably seemed like an entry into that lifestyle because people went there and partied with country music. She did not need someone she admired and respected, she needed someone she could use. There are people like that out there, who don't respect or admire anyone, and every interaction is a transaction that they evaluate based on them coming out ahead in some way.

Now if every man needs to be a leader, who the hell is following? Women who can't make decisions for themselves, and children not in a position to make their own decisions yet? Not much of a leader that can only push around women and children!

I think you are far too focused on the idea of being a leader, and when your idea is rejected you have to keep pushing it like a telemarketer. This is not a polarized topic we are debating, everyone has rejected it, pointed out several grossly inaccurate assumptions at it's core, and yet you continue to push it as though our refusal to follow diminishes your manhood because we do not follow your lead. If you are willing to look at what is said, and reevaluate your own position, you will find that your failure to lead us does not diminish your manhood.

Now on to the whole thing about hatred. It is not a good idea to go around acting on the hatred, not in ways that lead to further consequences for yourself. I don't think you have to give it up either. While YMMV, I rather enjoy my hatred. It inoculates me quite effectively against that annoying compassion I feel when I see someone who is really screwed up. It is rather nice actually to hear about some misfortune and actually be able to quietly smile about it.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oops duplicate post.

my first one!

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:31 PM, April 8th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take the fucking sales pitch somewhere else. There are people who are hurting badly and who don't need to be sold a paradigm of shit. They're trying to recover from an unimaginable trauma. I think everyone would appreciate it if you'd consider them and their feelings rather than simply your own.

^^^ Guys, I don't get the hostility. I also don't see how anything that tryn has said is 'inconsiderate'. In terms of everyone having the opposing view, we should all remember that threads are often self-selecting.

One question I have, which kind of underpins this discussion:

Are we to believe that all WWs are broken, meaning having a core defect of sorts, or that all W can commit infidelity if the circumstances are right (a coincidental confluence of opportunity, pride, and envy)?

When people are unhappy they often make bad choices. It goes without saying that happiness issues can be based on some type of personality problem (predisposed to cheat) vs. some type of incidence. Kind of like what is on the box of anti-depressants.

Some books I have read reflect this same dichotomy: Heins/ Sexual Detours vs. Glass/Not Just Friends.

At the end of the first chapter of NJF, it talks about managing attraction to other people, and the mistake many WSs make in feeling that because they feel attracted to someone else that there is something wrong with the marriage. Attractions are human. I think the hostility to tryn's remarks reflect an unwillingness to consider it a matter of relative attraction as opposed to an absolute attraction.

I find tryn's take pretty simple and not a 'sales pitch':

Look in the mirror
Work on yourself
You can not fix your wife
Be a quality person
Being quality is attractive to people

Also, I take the issue of leadership to include simple things like making sure your family goes to church if that is important, or making sure retirement is saved for, etc. There is moral leadership, for example, in addition being 'the general'. One can be the leader of the family.

Happy Monday all!

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:34 PM, April 8th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Attractions are human. I think the hostility to tryn's remarks reflect an unwillingness to consider it a matter of relative attraction as opposed to an absolute attraction.

I think this is a good point.

The breakdown seems to be that some guys view the relative attraction balance as a charge to make themselves more attractive (i.e., to win), while others say, more or less, "I'll be goddamned if I'm going to change who I am to someone else's definition of attractiveness. If she wants something else, she can pack her shit and move out, because I can guarantee you there are others out there who will appreciate me."

...which is another form of winning.

None of this can be stated in absolutes, I think. Some guys can use tryn's methods to their benefit -- both personally and maritally -- as a way of recovering. For others, it would be destructive, because you'd be asking them to be inauthentic -- to become someone they have no desire to be in order to please someone else. For me, it would lead to a veritable minefield of resentments, because I can't look at it in any other way than Thank you, sir, may I have another!

I don't view that as leading. I view that as codependency, but maybe that's because I started with a pretty healthy self-image. I liked who I was and how I behaved/performed with regards to my marriage before D-day. If my wife had a different ideal, that's fine. People want different things. Her option was to accept what I brought to the table and maybe suggest a short list of things she'd like me to do more/better...or to accept the risks and consequences of breaking things off and trying again with someone who might be more to her taste.

I mean, to take tryn's example, I'm guessing the uniform dude liked his job. I'm guessing it provided them with a pretty good living while she sat around crooning Miranda Lambert tunes watching CMT all day long while he was at work. It was part of his identity, something he enjoyed doing and that he obviously did well.

His wife carping about it was a not-so-subtle message that she didn't give a shit what he liked or wanted, she wanted him to be/do something else that would make her happy. In the meantime, I wonder what he thought about her aspirations as a country singer. He borrowed money to support her, help her cut a demo, etc.

I wonder if Miss Subway could even sing worth a damn.

I wonder if maybe he should have started this concept of reciprocity by pointing out that about half of the small town, ambitionless, HS choir dropout skanks east of the Mississippi river dreams of striking it big in Nashville, and if she wanted to rise above that level, she ought to get off her ass and do something about it rather than working so diligently on a fat ass while she troughed up at his gravy train. I wonder if that would have gone over any better, all things being reciprocal.

I ask myself how much you're required to give before there's some reasonable reciprocity. That's where I drew my own line.

Some people are just takers. Or they get so low, taking is all they can do. Entitlement is all they can feel. Doesn't make it a permanent character defect...but I can feed that bottomless hole of need, or I can opt out of their sickness and expect them to learn to self-soothe.

Either way, I'm going to be okay. It probably helps that I'm the shit, though. There are plenty of qualities about just being me that hot chicks seem to dig. Add in the potential "quality guy done wrong by scheming ex" sob story, and that's like a magic panty-dissolving +3 Wand of Irresistableness.

But, you know, shit worked out, so I can't complain either way.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack:
^^^ Guys, I don't get the hostility. I also don't see how anything that tryn has said is 'inconsiderate'. In terms of everyone having the opposing view, we should all remember that threads are often self-selecting.

Well, I'd say that it could be considered inconsiderate in that having read his past few posts, the idea he's pitching is that if you fix EVERYTHING about yourself as a man, as well as anticipate/fulfill EVERY need your wife could ever have, then she would have no reason to cheat. And therefore wouldn't. Except that it's impossible. No one person can fulfill every need of another person. It's herding cats. It's the world's most fucked-up shell game.

Are we to believe that all WWs are broken, meaning having a core defect of sorts, or that all W can commit infidelity if the circumstances are right (a coincidental confluence of opportunity, pride, and envy)?

I get what you're saying, but I don't 100% buy in to the premise. I read NJF, and found it to be super informative, especially for people who have an overwhelming tendency to only have friends of the opposite sex. I guess I tend to believe that people who are self-assured and whatnot would a) call you on your bullshit if they didn't like the marriage, b) divorce you if they didn't want to be married, or c) try to work out the issues. They would exhaust all possible avenues before D, because for those people the A is never an option.

I understand the "frog in a boiling pot" metaphor, the slow sliding of boundaries....but even in those cases, there is a point where you think to yourself "Holy fuck, what the hell is going on here?" And at that point, you have a clear choice to terminate the friendship in favor of the marriage, or to continue along with it in some form.

And addressing the leadership thing for a moment:

I think that with most WWs, it's damn-near impossible to keep them happy. If you're an ambitious guy who works long hours? "You never spend enough time with the family." Cut back on work? "I wish you worked a little bit harder to be successful." Sensitive guy who showers them with affection? "I wish you'd be more aggressive sometimes." Asshole in bed/life? "Why aren't you more romantic?"

The thing about most of our WWs, I'd wager, is this:

it talks about managing attraction to other people, and the mistake many WSs make in feeling that because they feel attracted to someone else that there is something wrong with the marriage.

Healthy people know that being attracted to another person doesn't indicate a five-alarm fire in the marriage section of town, you know? For example: I have dated mostly Mexican women...just my thing. My wife is of Mexican descent, and dresses/acts fairly conservatively, is shorter and rounder. Once and a while I'll still see an attractive 20-something white girl, stick skinny going for a punk-ish vibe and wonder what it'd be like to be with her....but I don't confuse those feelings for unhappiness in my marriage.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Add in the potential "quality guy done wrong by scheming ex" sob story, and that's like a magic panty-dissolving +3 Wand of Irresistableness.

Oh man...that story?

Knocks. Em. Dead.

Plus, I get a +10 modifier to charisma since I'd be essentially raising an adorable 6-year old boy on my own.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are some people who would argue that our collective tendency to turn every relationship scenario into a D&D, video game, or science fiction reference is not attractive.

Those people are wrong.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
5454real
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Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I usually don't care for absolute statements. However every once in a while;
Those people are wrong.

is absolutely right.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2082 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good discussion FP:

he's pitching is that if you fix EVERYTHING about yourself as a man, as well as anticipate/fulfill EVERY need your wife could ever have, then she would have no reason to cheat.

I interpret the logic differently than that. I think what tryn is saying is that if you are NOT quality, then if your W cheats, then you can't assess whether she is quality not. If you are quality and your W cheats, then she is NOT quality and you move on and attract a quality woman. Remember the notion that broken people attract broken people that we see here so often? now the inverse or contra-positive, or whatever.

Plus, I think tryn's comments are coming from the perspective of an active R not an M post-mortem.


I guess I tend to believe that people who are self-assured and whatnot

^^^I agree with this. Plus people who are self-assured communicate their needs before firing their need- full-filler. But infidelity statistics are depressing, meaning that either self-assurance is at a nadir, or that the threshold needed has increased.

I think that with most WWs, it's damn-near impossible to keep them happy.

^^^I think this is true only for WWs that are not remorseful and do are not able to R.

What if women are just moths to a flame?

PS IMO Halo is more attractive than D&D, so there might be a hierarchy...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:39 PM, April 8th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
hardlessons
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Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry guys, I tried..

D&D requires an imagination and actual friends, halo requires a xbox.... Hierarchy Deeeenied!!


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PS IMO Halo is more attractive than D&D, so there might be a hierarchy...

This is my horrible admission, and one of the potential flaws in my overall awesomeness: I can't play video games that use a controller.

I mean, I suck balls at it.

If it doesn't involve a mouse and a keyboard, it will eat my lunch.

My kids won't even try to play console games with me anymore, because they say it's just embarrassing and they don't play games to feel bad.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
aesir
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Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is my horrible admission, and one of the potential flaws in my overall awesomeness: I can't play video games that use a controller.

I mean, I suck balls at it.

If it doesn't involve a mouse and a keyboard, it will eat my lunch.

I believe this is the curse of being a man of intellectual substance. I don't know how one can even compare the idea of twitching all over the screen compared to the planning and execution involved in a good keyboard and mouse game, or in the old days just plain text. The planning and thought to reach the desired goal, vs just grabbing whatever powerups as they present themselves.

My favorite thinking mans game move has to be from back in the days of text... So if I create an alt and withdraw negative cash from the bank it will have a huge balance, but be crippled from carrying that negative cash. But if I take that alt to go die fighting that monster that loots the corpse, I can rez with all that free money in the bank. Is a bonus that the monster with all my negative cash is one of the favorites for the powergaming twitch players to kill for loot... Hmmm, negative 2 billion seems about right.

Yeah this actually worked on a few games.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
h0peless
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Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know what? I actually have an Xbox controller hooked up to my computer. It's great for basketball and racing games. My consoles? Great for Netflix. If I'm going to pretend to shoot someone, I'll use a keyboard and mouse. If I'm going to play an MMO, I'll try Chrystal Meth instead.

As for the rest of the discussion going on here, I spend all goddamn day leading a staff of teachers. They're great people, I love my job and I'm good at it but the last thing I want to do after a hard day of being the leader is to come home and lead some more. If I have to come home and "lead" my wife? What the hell kind of bullshit is that. I want a relationship that is a partnership with an equal, not some bullshit father-daughter relationship with the person I sleep with at night. There are plenty of women on this site and it the real world who could run circles around me intellectually and who don't need to be "lead" to do the right thing.

The whole premise is offensive to me on so many fronts. Was I a perfect husband? Absolutely not, but I put a lot more effort into the relationship than she ever did. What did that get me? A broken heart and a dry dick. I loved her and I bent over backwards to satisfy her "needs". The question is, why was she so goddamn needy? You know what I need? Food, shelter and a roof over my head. Those are needs. There are things that would be dealbreakers for me in a relationship but that isn't because my "needs" aren't being met, it's because I'm not getting what I want out of the deal. Big fucking difference. An emotionally mature person can make themselves happy. An emotionally immature person won't be satisfied with anything. That's the difference between a cheater and the rest of us. Not our ability to anticipate and fulfill every "need" that another person has, not our gender or some superficial bullshit role that is supposed to be played based on that gender but emotional fucking maturity. Cheaters are entitled, selfish, immature cowards. Maybe they grow from the experience. Maybe they don't.

To summarize, I much prefer a keyboard and mouse to a controller for most applications.

[This message edited by h0peless at 11:48 PM, April 8th (Monday)]


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