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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
wert
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Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The experience of a feeling is valid (I.e., we all feel what we feel), but that doesn't make the feeling itself valid.
Some feelings are inappropriate for their context, while others are rooted in flawed reasoning or misapplied history.

In other words, a feeling can be both subjectively valid and objectively wrong. That you feel it is valid. That doesn't stop you from being a dumbass.

It took me to MC session to break that down for our first MC. We aren't with her any longer.

Spot on. WAL.

My final example was...I feel anger toward OM to the point of wanting to pummel him with a man hole cover until he lies bleeding to death in the middle of the street as I smile at cars whizzing by. Is that valid? Yes. Is it wrong. Yes.

take care...



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A very thoughtful female veteran of SI posted this for a BH in relation to his WW:

...she seems to perhaps be going through the paces, recovering her balance and then life as usual and then what? zzzz's point about the constant focus and stress of her career is right on, it is humbling how she has devoted herself (and see! I have not met her but that is a deep contradiction -- does the balance of all the good she has performed, outweigh her mistakes?) My husband is a great father (but is he...?:)) Because you love her and see these contradictions, you understand and eventually, that empathy brings forgiveness. But does that mean you are obligated to stick around and risk a repeat? no.

For you TC, I hope that your WW is balancing (or can going forward) her mistakes with positives. This gets to whether the A is/was a dealbreaker or not...even if she is remorseful, and only you can be the judge of that.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:32 AM, April 12th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So the big question that no one here ever wants to answer was there anything that merited bad feelings on her end that you need to address? --not saying that her response was justified in any way or that any lack of communication on her end was warranted, but you do have to look into the mirror. While she is getting rid of her dysfunctional qty. 10 50-gallon drums of jet fuel, you need to make sure you don't have any random matches laying around.

This sentiment, however legitimate, really bothers me.

Not that it's something that really does need addressed, but the fact is that there is a time and a place for all things, and in the aftermath of an affair, it is neither the time nor the place.

It isn't that nobody wants to answer this question, it's that it makes absolutely no sense to go after those answers while you are emotionally crippled. In fact, I firmly believe that going after those answers before you've rebuilt yourself enough to do so properly will only inflict further harm.

Yes, the WS may have to wait years for the BS to pull his shit together enough to really permanently fix issues, but the fact is that this is an affair support site and we're here dealing with the A-bomb, not the H-bomb. If the BS has a gambling problem, addition issues, domestic violence, then the WS absolutely and truly has the right - and damned well should - make sure she is safe from that, because just like an affair, there is no justification for suffering that kind of abuse.

When it comes to individual issues, however, like "You don't open up to me enough" or "We don't cuddle enough" or "I don't feel wanted enough" or "You don't help out the way I want you to" then the WS needs to just fucking wait awhile. I am a really, really bad sick person. I won't do anything absolutely dangerous like drive while under the influence of six different kinds of prescription drugs, but unless I am physically unable to move I will wander around pottering about trying to fix/clean shit until I pass out. This is a problem that comes from my childhood, and one I can't seem to kick, but the results are that if you are mowing the lawn with a heel that was crushed under a car and has gone gangrenous, you are going to collapse in the heat and end up in the ER with a life threatening fever. It is at that point you have to accept the people around you are not presently concerned enough with your own well being and you need to tell them to mow their own fucking lawn while you go to the doctor, and if you need to sleep under a bridge again that night for being locked out, so be it.

Years later, when the BS is ready, is the time to deal with that. Get safe and get healthy before you start working out life maintenance.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7108 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dealing with the A-bomb

There are different aspects to dealing with the A-bomb. As you say, getting emotionally healthy is one. But the other is reconciling and arriving at forgiveness if that is the choice for some men. The sentiment that bothered you is related to the latter aspect not the former.

I also need to add an observation/question and it kind of connects to the trynhard debate above.

This thread is a betrayed men's thread. Issues and perspectives related to active R, M healing, etc. for men are going to be different than getting men back on their feet after being decimated. I was not under the impression that this thread is exclusive to the latter concern.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was not under the impression that this thread is exclusive to the latter concern.

I don't think it is. Most of the men posting in this thread are in reconciliation.

I learned important lessons in the process of healing myself (and the ways I looked at healing myself) that were invaluable when it came to understanding how I should reconcile, what I wanted from the marriage going forward, and what I was willing to sacrifice to reach those goals.

(Lesson 1: I've already been made to pay for my "failures". The price has been exacted, and it can never again be said that I owe on that account. Anything I choose to give going forward is voluntarily, not anything that can be legitimately demanded from me. My life is my own to give as I choose.)

Reconciliation is a product of who I am and how I treat myself. It's not a pile of TPS reports that have to be filled out, with checkmarks in various boxes to chart progress. If I don't understand me, my needs, my healing, my deal breakers and how I envision my spouse's place in my life going forward, then I'm going to end up unhappy with the result, because it's going to be the whacked-out, entitlement-minded, blame-that-guy WS who's setting the agenda for what the new marriage is going to look like.

I mean, I see that shit here and on other marriage forums all the time. So many WW's go straight from talking about how much they loved the OM's dick and miss his companionship to how they can fix their husband so they won't trip over extra dicks again in the future. It usually involves him doing a shit-ton of work to comply with what she wants him to be...while he is to give her time and space to do IC, explore her FOO, find out her whys, etc., etc.

She's on a healing journey. He's on a toe-the-line journey.

I've seen it so often that it's practically a cliche, which is why a brother needs to armor up early and chart his own path -- even with reconciliation in mind -- because there's a war going on for his mind and his will from the instant the bomb drops. It starts with blame-shifting and gets more insidious from there.

This is clearly not something that works as a marital model years and years into the future -- but I think it's vital to set the tone early on and make it clear that your healing and how you handle it are your top priority. Not the marriage. Not reconciliation. Not who might have stuck what into your wife's vagina when she was 12 and how she feels about it now.

Your part of reconciling is working on your pain and moving toward forgiveness in a way that will make you the healthiest and strongest down the road. When that's starting to feel solid, then you can talk about marriage issues in a setting where you both get to bring your lists of shit you want the other person to change because it will make you happier and have a hammer-and-tongs free-for-all under the guidance of a caring marriage counselor.

(I don't ever think that taking personal growth advice from a person who has just spent months or years dwelling on your shortcomings and using them to justify lies, abuses and betrayals is a good idea. The WS is not a valid source of input for what the BS needs to work on as a spouse. They're just not qualified...unless they want the BS to follow their example as what constitutes healthy behavior in the context of the marriage. Then they can have an opinion. YMMV.)

I believe that how one heals should inform the reconciliation journey. The goal of reconciliation shouldn't dictate how I heal.

If I've got to pick between me and the marriage, the marriage can -- and should -- go hang.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When that's starting to feel solid, then you can talk about marriage issues in a setting where you both get to bring your lists of shit you want the other person to change because it will make you happier and have a hammer-and-tongs free-for-all under the guidance of a caring marriage counselor.

Seems like again we are really not in disagreement. It's just an assessment of whether "feeling solid" is in place or not. And what to do about being 'stuck'.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah. I agree.

It's less about disagreement than about mental approaches and senses of empowerment.

Some guys feel very empowered where they can approach the post-infidelity relationship as problems to solve and issues to be fixed, preferably as a team, with lots of bonding through working together.

Others need to do things on their own and have their spouse demonstrate they they are trustworthy enough to engage with *their* issues without guidance.

I suspect the approach that appeals to an individual breaks down in a similar way to Chapman's 5 Love Languages model. We've all got a Recovery Language, and we feel safest when our partner can speak that language. If I'm a Distance & Destroy guy, my wife being an Acts of Contrition person doesn't translate.

One of you should write a book and solve this problem so I don't have to think about it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are different aspects to dealing with the A-bomb. As you say, getting emotionally healthy is one. But the other is reconciling and arriving at forgiveness if that is the choice for some men. The sentiment that bothered you is related to the latter aspect not the former.

Of course. Nowhere did I imply a BH should stew in his bitterness forever. The problem with pushing the Forgive, Work, Live stuff is that some people seem to think it needs to be invoked from day 1. I really don't think that's the case, and I think it's detrimental to R because it can lead to shit like resentment and bitterness. The R forum is littered with "Is my WS being rewarded" posts and IMO that comes from rushing too quickly into working on personal issues that caused relationship conflicts, rather than staying focused on getting your feet and dealing with the immediate fallout.


I also need to add an observation/question and it kind of connects to the trynhard debate above.

This thread is a betrayed men's thread. Issues and perspectives related to active R, M healing, etc. for men are going to be different than getting men back on their feet after being decimated. I was not under the impression that this thread is exclusive to the latter concern.

My 3 year mark will be in 2 weeks and my wife and I are pretty solid in R. I'm not sure why men getting themselves back to their feet on their own terms in the wake of an affair would be the sole purview of those in D or limbo. I think it's the first healthy course before making any decisions.

My disagreements with tryn have to do with his overt pushing of an agenda, not the values of reconciliation.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7108 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
5454real
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Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, an affair ends a marriage. Looked at as a contract, she broke it. You can choose to renegotiate that contract and to me the question become where I am negotiating from.
I also need to add an observation/question and it kind of connects to the trynhard debate above.
This thread is a betrayed men's thread. Issues and perspectives related to active R, M healing, etc. for men are going to be different than getting men back on their feet after being decimated. I was not under the impression that this thread is exclusive to the latter concern.

I prefer to negotiate from a position of strength. Trynhard seems to advocate willingly abdicating my sovereignity and negotiate from there. I don't think a healthy R or M can be achieved through surrender. 'Getting back on your feet' first would seem to be a prerequisite. Not exclusive by any means, but inclusive to almost any successful direction in recovery.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The experience of a feeling is valid (I.e., we all feel what we feel), but that doesn't make the feeling itself valid.
Some feelings are inappropriate for their context, while others are rooted in flawed reasoning or misapplied history.
In other words, a feeling can be both subjectively valid and objectively wrong. That you feel it is valid. That doesn't stop you from being a dumbass.

It took me to MC session to break that down for our first MC. We aren't with her any longer.

Spot on. WAL.

My final example was...I feel anger toward OM to the point of wanting to pummel him with a man hole cover until he lies bleeding to death in the middle of the street as I smile at cars whizzing by. Is that valid? Yes. Is it wrong. Yes.

take care...

This is something I've been thinking about as well. I'm going to quote something from one of WAL's wife's posts that I read recently.

The seaweed is next. This in the idea that somehow your spouse’s behavior before the A added to the reasons that you had an affair. Yep, you heard me. The A is 100% you fault. Is 50% part of the overall marital problems his? Nope. If your thinking was messed up and led to you have an Affair, it was and is probably messed up thinking about the dynamic of your marriage. You can become tangled in marital history and lose sight of what you are fighting for, lose your commitment to saving your marriage.
I’m not talking about rewriting the marriage history to justify an Affair. I’m talking about subconscious blame shifting onto the normal problems that a marriage faces. Like when your husband didn’t pay attention to you even when you tried to engage him.

Sometimes I feel like by talking about pre-A marital issues with my MC and wife, I'm somehow buying into the idea that those issues (and my self-admitted flaws) were a cause of the A. My MC has never, ever even said anything approaching that idea, but just the fact that we're talking about pre-A issues even at all at this point. But wincings_sparkle up there hit the nail on the head with regards to marital issues...the WW is hardly in a position to figure out what's involved in a healthy marriage.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife is a pretty smart cookie.

And hot.

A hot, smart cookie with sparkles.

(I'm taking her out of town this weekend for her birthday. I'm counting on her seeing this before we leave this afternoon.)

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 1:05 PM, April 12th (Friday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My MC has never, ever even said anything approaching that idea, but just the fact that we're talking about pre-A issues even at all at this point.

When we went to MC a few weeks after dday, one of the things that struck deep with me was how my wife responded to the MC wanting to talk about our relationship problems before she had her affair and how it may have influenced her decisions, or something like that. My wife said "Our marriage was messed up, just like everyone else. His response was to buckle down and try everything he could to fix us, my response was to cheat. So I am a couple years behind on that and don't even want to go there."

There are some things early on in R that drop anchors and keep you from getting lost in this shitstorm, for me that one was profound. It felt like an acknowledgement of all the shit I had done and gone through while at the same time watching her acknowledge and then take responsibility for her own actions. The MC was taken aback a bit and tried to push the issue briefly but my wife stuck to that, explained her position and we went on to another 3 or so months of very good MC. Which ended with us mixing up nights that we were supposed to be there, showing up when we didn't need to, and we used that free babysitting time to go out to dinner and enjoy ourselves.

MC is a good place to deal with that stuff but I think it's best dealt with when you go in as a team. We both knew what we wanted to work through, we stayed on task and our MC helped us accomplish what we wanted. It's because we went in there together, and I felt safe enough with her to work together, because she had worked to show me she wanted to be that.

Early on, the survival mode has to be weathered IMO. Over in JFO you can watch Bigger wade into some new BH thread with Gjallarhorn in hand giving out the sage advice to survive the first few days: eat, drink, sleep, know it ain't your fault, welcome home, sorry you're here.

WTF I am all over the place. Sorry.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7108 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
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Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You always apologize for being all over the place. Stop it. You're generally completely focused and on-task with your posts. At least, you don't get scattered any more than the rest of us do from time to time.

You've either internalized ADHD criticisms from your childhood, or you've spent your life surrounded by idiots who don't have the intellectual depth to keep up with your connections between disciplines.

I'm just saying...don't apologize to us. Just assume you're smarter than everyone else and let them be the ones who feel bad for not being able to keep up.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not really on either extreme as far as my wife's post DDAY reaction is concerned. She has not once ever talked up the OM or anything like that...in fact, when I thought she did have an inflated idea of his worth I spent like 30 minutes ripping apart his flaws (because we USED to be friends), she's the one who stopped me and said, "You think that I put him on a pedestal or think he's so great or something, and I don't...he was just the person who happened to be there when I was angry and frustrated with you and was available to listen." She's been pretty consistent from the jump that OM doesn't really measure up to me in any meaningful way, which is cool, I guess. I can't imagine how I would've reacted had she pulled some of the shit I've read about on here.

However, once in a while she will do exhibit some blame-shift-y behaviors. She's never come out and said, "Oh, you did X, so that's why I did Y.", but there are little things here and there that pop up. For example, on Wednesday she was supposed to go to our MC by herself to work on the timeline. However, my wife works from home and has been getting bombarded with orders for like two weeks, so she's super busy with orders...so when the time to go to MC was approaching, she asked if I wanted to go by myself this week since she had so much work to do. I held firm, and told her "No. I have nothing really to talk about by myself, and this is your week to work on the timeline. I asked you for it two months ago, and had you done it then, you wouldn't be in this situation now." She became very angry with me, and I could almost see the struggle going on in her head, because she knew I was technically correct, but some small part of her wanted to feel like I was being unreasonable and was wanting to blame me for her not being able to get her orders shipped on time. To her credit, she didn't say as much, but when we talked later, she told me, "Just so you know, I'm really angry right now, so I spent most of the session going over how you made me feel like shit all the time before the stuff with [OM] happened."

Which is fine with me, I guess. We talked about it more calmly later, but once in a while she will pop up with the "You made me feel like shit" routine and I'm not having it, honestly. Listen, I was, at times, a 5/10 husband where the area of listening is concerned. However, I never hit her, never demeaned her, I don't abuse drugs and alcohol, I make money to help pay the bills, and I'm a really good dad. But she had a ton of flaws as a wife, too, and I didn't go complaining to someone who would potentially help me remove my pants.

So for the time being I don't think I really want to hear about all the shit she wants to complain about that I fucked up on, pre-A. I already 'paid' for those crimes with her A (twice depending on how you look at our situation), and I'm not interested in paying a third time. That capital has been spent. So...a question, I guess.

Anyone think of a good way to bring this up in MC?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
dday3302011
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Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My favorite SG posts are the ones where he is all over the place, using dorky metaphors that I have no clue what they're about or what he's talking about. Makes me feel like a concussed running back or something. I always get a laugh though.

[This message edited by dday3302011 at 1:49 PM, April 12th (Friday)]


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
wert
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice thread guys.

(I'm taking her out of town this weekend for her birthday. I'm counting on her seeing this before we leave this afternoon.)

Somebody should help a brother out and point her over here.

You always apologize for being all over the place. Stop it.

Yep.

I talk to myself sometimes. People say it weird. I say, I am the most interesting person I know. Perhaps the only.

We just retired from MC last night, well at least for while - who knows.

As a couple, outside the normal day to day who is going to do shit thing, we only came up with a few concerning points for us. We defined them pretty well in MC and now there are just....ongoing...This shit doesn't just stop one day and it didn't really start one day either.

Early on, the survival mode has to be weathered IMO. Over in JFO you can watch Bigger wade into some new BH thread with Gjallarhorn in hand giving out the sage advice to survive the first few days: eat, drink, sleep, know it ain't your fault, welcome home, sorry you're here.

It does and the generic stuff I think is mainly the way to go. People, couples or whatever, enter into this stuff with such varied skills, experiences, etc.

Nice weekend to you all. Have one for me...

Take it easy...



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When we went to MC a few weeks after dday, one of the things that struck deep with me was how my wife responded to the MC wanting to talk about our relationship problems before she had her affair and how it may have influenced her decisions, or something like that. My wife said "Our marriage was messed up, just like everyone else. His response was to buckle down and try everything he could to fix us, my response was to cheat. So I am a couple years behind on that and don't even want to go there."

One of the mistakes we made when we first went to MC was that we said we wanted to work on our communication with each other. Don't get me wrong, the MC was informed of the affair and all that, but in retrospect I'm starting to think two things:

1) I should've put a much bigger priority on focusing on the A.

2) After about 2 months of MC, I no longer believe that we have/had a communication problem per se, we both have a failure of implementation of solutions. As this has gone along, we're realizing that we had both communicated our frustrations, many times, but neither of us really tried to fix our respective shit. If she blew up about me flirting, maybe I'd try really hard for two weeks and then revert to normal...if I got on her about her drinking, same thing. Short periods of effort, followed by a reversal to the norm. We both harbored bitterness and resentment, but while I was internalizing mine (which I wouldn't recommend, btw), she was venting to the wrong people.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to be blowing this shit up left and right, but another question.

How did those of your who have succesfully R'ed deal with telling people? Because I feel like there's a ridiculous double standard at play in society in this area with men vs. women. Women who get cheated on are the victim, but Men who get cheated on must have been lacking in some way, shape or form. I don't want or need anyone's pity, but I also don't want to deal with people snickering behind my back, because all of our friends/co-workers know OM as well....and we also haven't told anyone family-wise. Any thoughts or advice?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP, your post summed up a lot of stuff for me. THANK YOU. I am waiting outside my MC's office now. I will ask your question.

I was a 3/10 as a husband. What my WW needs to understand is that I might have been a 9/10 if I did not have to deal with her problems and issues. She is a biggest part of that 3 score.

To your question, I have told everyone that I wanted to and I thought would help. Nothing kept secret. My friends, etc. know I am a great guy so there is no negative assessment like you may fear. It's liberating actually; people will share back and you will see how messed up everyone is in some facet. Hell, I could have racked up 2 RA's by now...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:15 PM, April 12th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
5454real
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Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, April 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP, while I wont say that we have successfully R'd or anywhere close(though meandering in the right direction) I think the same principles apply. A strong sense of self worth goes a long way to bearing the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune. What does society in general bring to the table anyway. It's the individuals within that society that I seek.
Those are the people I generally choose to associate with. FOM to use the vernacular. Others? Who cares. Only those who are supportive of my goals(generally R) have an opinion that means a damn.
I don't, and won't make her fuck-ups a topic for general discussion. If this shit blows up, maybe. Right now, who's business is it anyway. Those who snicker, walk up to them and straight out ask if they are enjoying themselves. Should you bring in a puppy for them to whip as well. Small minded people talk about other people. People with great minds discuss great concepts and ideas. Thank them for their support and walk away.
Yea the double standard sucks.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

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