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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
PanicAttack53
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Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, April 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys. Just saw this on another site and thought I'd pass it along for what ever it's worth....

The Guy in the Glass

If you get what you want in your struggle for self
and the world makes you King for a day,
Then go to the mirror and look at yourself,
and see what that guy has to say.
For it isn't your Father or Mother or wife
who judgement upon you must pass,
The feller whose verdict counts most in your life
is the guy staring back from the glass
He's the feller to please never mind all the rest,
for he's with you clear up till the end,
and you've passed your most dangerous, difficult test
if the guy in the glass is your friend
You may be like Jack Horner and chisel a plum,
and think you're a wonderful guy,
but the man in the glass says you're only a bum
if you can't look him straight in the eye
You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years
and get pats on the back as you pass
but your final reward will be heartaches and tears
if you've cheated the guy in the glass

-- Dale Wimbrow


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, April 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Touchdown.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, April 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A question to those men with with a few years under their belts-

At what point do you just sort of...I dunno...give up on having some semblance of "full truth" and just make peace with the narrative you construct in your head? My WW has committed to answering my questions, and she does when they arise, but to some degree I'm just tired of asking them. Not that I couldn't keep asking more and more and more questions if I wanted to, but I'm starting to question whether I'm doing it for my own peace of mind, or as a means to "punish" my WW by making her feel gross and/or guilty. So condensed, I suppose that it's two questions:

1) At some point did you just tell yourself, "I'm done with asking questions, unless some really important ones arise."?

2) When did you reach that point, and did you realize it?

[This message edited by FacePunched at 3:33 PM, April 20th (Saturday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Mikey56
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Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, April 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I realized that I will never know the truth because I wasn't there. No matter how "honest" she is it will only be a version of the truth.

This is something I read about a alot on here. The WS knows everyhing. The BS is in the dark, blindsided, TTed, and trying to figure out WTF just happened to my world.

It sucks.


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, April 20th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I stopped asking anything that wasn't really nagging at me when I realized that even she doesn't remember everything objectively. I can even remember the specific event that shifted the way I looked at that. Kind of a goofy thing, but there was a game we played together for months... she wiped that from her memory so well that it just wasn't part of her narrative anymore. It was excised so effectively that I thought I had made the whole thing up. I log my text chats though, and found entire conversations we had. I showed them to her and she was baffled. Still didn't remember. Still doesn't, I think.

So some things I ask, because they nag me and it's really just that I need to talk about it now, rather than gather information. I've gone through a lot of reasons. I think mostly I just got tired.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7109 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@FP, good questions as usual.

This was the part of R that I wasn't able to navigate and stay married. I'm still trying to figure out why I couldn't but hopefully I can help you with my experience.

1) At some point did you just tell yourself, "I'm done with asking questions, unless some really important ones arise."?

Yes I did. Like most everyone else here, I obsessed, thought about the A all the time, and basically was consumed by it. I think most of us get to a point where that level of immersion into something so painful gets tiresome and flat-out unhealthy.


2) When did you reach that point, and did you realize it?

For me it was around 9 months post-dday, and yes I did realize it. I lived in this unhealthy obsession for so long, I got to a point where I just said to myself, "it doesn't matter anymore, and I don't care enough anymore to keep torturing myself because of her fucked up decisions".

It doesn't end there however. At least it didn't for me, and this is where TT, minimizing, and selective memory can boomerang and bite you in the ass if you let them.

For example, about a year after dday, we got an advertisement from an inn in Santa Barbara the STBXWW and OM stayed in during their A. When I originally asked about it STBXWW told me that it was a day trip. It wasn't. When I asked her about after we got the flyer in the mail, she said "a hotel is a hotel. I know I stayed in a hotel with him that night but I honestly forgot if it was in L.A. or Santa Barbara". I'm pretty sure she wasn't lying. I believed her, but it's landmines like that that can become very disruptive.

I thought I was done asking questions many, many times. Until something like the example I just gave would pop up and more questions would arise. More doubt and pain. It fucking sucks and it tests your patience.

I wanted to stop punishing her and myself with the "details" too. But there was so much lying, so much to cover up, so much disrespect that it simply wouldn't go away. Maybe I just couldn't or wouldn't let it go away. That's why I decided to stop R and leave this shit behind me.

My kids are very important to me, but leaving the landmines and the disrespect in the distance became more important to me than anything else at some point. I couldn't continue to be around her. StillGoing and many others here obviously can. It's very personal. I'd call it a choice but for me it really wasn't. I had to D to save myself. I couldn't dismiss those new hurts as "well she just doesn't remember". I wish I could but I can't.

So I guess my advice would be make sure you really mean it when you tell yourself you don't care anymore. Make sure you're not like me and simply trying to avoid the obsessing and pain. I know the difference because now I really don't care anymore.

The 2nd part of your 1st question leads me to believe you still do care. "unless some really important ones arise?". Not to sound cryptic but they're all important until they are not. Please don't make the same mistakes I did and think you're further along than you actually are. Self-assessment can be incredibly difficult when your whole world is turned upside down.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing and many others here obviously can. It's very personal. I'd call it a choice but for me it really wasn't. I had to D to save myself. I couldn't dismiss those new hurts as "well she just doesn't remember". I wish I could but I can't.

I didn't and don't dismiss them. That wasn't the point of what I was saying at all.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7109 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey FacePunched,

) At some point did you just tell yourself, "I'm done with asking questions, unless some really important ones arise."?

2) When did you reach that point, and did you realize it?

Yes. At about 7 months FWW stopped the TT full court press and gave me information I would never have suspected or likely uncovered. It greatly increased the scope and depth of her As and it heped fit pieces together and for things to make sense (as much as A-crap can make sense). While she said that she would answer questions after that, she never really did answer any more detailed questions.

At about 1 year post dday I saw FWW start to own and work on her issues. Somewhere between 18 months and two years out I realized I did not need to know anymore. As Tryn told me at the time, they were having sex, and we all know what sex is. I realized that if I was going to attempt to R with my FWW I would have to accept her past then and focus on the present and future. I realized her As were about her and the person she was being then, and I saw a difference in the person she is trying to be now.

I know there are details she has withheld that I would consider significant. I presume that in with all the emails and texts with attachments were some nude/graphic photos to and from OM. Will one of her OM someday mail these to me, who knows? I strongly suspect there were other OM than the 4 I know of. Twenty years of M is a long time, and it is hard to believe this crap just started in the last few years.

For me, I cannot imagine a really important pre-dday revelation that would take me off of the R path. I know she had sexual A and EA with multiple OM. I know she felt power and in control having sex with them, and that she had opportunities where they spent nights together and alcohol and drugs were used. I know it was not safe sex and that she contracted a std. I know she loved the attention, and the attention was sexual in nature. If I was to find NC breaches or false R that would be different, but as for pre-dday I believe that was then and this is now.

Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:01 PM, April 22nd (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't and don't dismiss them. That wasn't the point of what I was saying at all.

I know that SG. Sorry I made it sound like that. I meant that you could continue to be around your WW and I couldn't. I would have felt like I was dismissing the landmines. You obviously handle it much better than I ever could.

[This message edited by dday3302011 at 12:47 PM, April 22nd (Monday)]


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The 2nd part of your 1st question leads me to believe you still do care. "unless some really important ones arise?". Not to sound cryptic but they're all important until they are not.

Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to sound like they're not important. If I feel the need to know, I'll ask. But occasionally minute detail stuff pops up in my head...like what she wore when they went to IHOP one time, for example....or if she liked the way he smelled (cologne or whatever). Details that my brain are obsessing over, but are probably not important to my healing, long-term...KWIM?

Please don't make the same mistakes I did and think you're further along than you actually are. Self-assessment can be incredibly difficult when your whole world is turned upside down.

THIS ^^^ is tripping me up quite a bit, honestly. Some days I come out of MC feeling really, really good about everything...and then some days I'm so angry about the whole thing that MC seems like a joke until I reach a place inside my own head where working on my marriage doesn't feel like a betrayal of myself. For example, I'll have the urge to do something nice for my wife....and sometimes I can do it and be happy about it and feel good about doing something nice for her, but on the flip side, sometimes even the thought of doing anything nice for her stirs up angry emotions on my part, like, "Why should I lift a finger to help her; she can go fuck herself for all I care..."
I definitely feel like I'm still on the roller coaster portion...I've heard that the anger stage hits around month 5-6...but I have had ridiculously intense anger/rage from Day 1, so I'm curious to see what happens.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry dday, I misread the context there. Got into an argument somewhere else and I was still in defensive stance, switching to chill stance.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7109 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another question to you fine gentlemen, somewhat related to question asking?

How detailed did you get when asking about the sexual aspect of things...and did it help or hurt, long-term? I mean, I asked what 'kinds' of sex they had, but as far as specific positions and whatnot...did you go there?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...'kinds' of sex they had, but as far as specific positions and whatnot...did you go there?

These are the types of details I did not get and decided I was able to live and move forward without. There was some general information she volunteered, and some of this I believe some who knows? For instance she talked of OM3 joked that she was so loud after oral sex on two occasions at a hotel ron de vu that she could be heard at a nearby restaurant, and how is d*ick fit “just right” to give her O’s. She says she did not have anal with any of them, but from what I read about other WW on SI and knowing there was alcohol and zanax I am inclined to think they did. I know of a table or two, where they did it in OM office after hours. She told me of phone sex a couple times with one OM (I had some records), but why just one, so I assume all or most of them. I know some physical and personal details about the OM I do not need to know.

For me at the time, it was important that FWW share some painful and embarrassing details as proof she really wanted to R and loved me. I now know that at the time I got these details she was not sure of R and did not feel love for me. By the time she committed to working on the M (feeling love for me came later) we had pretty much stopped talking about sexual details.

I tried to figure out from the phone records what days they would meet to go to his house or the hotel for the last OM. She was never able to remember the days or how they would set that up. I think because it was her making herself available to him. Earlier OM with shorter A’s she was more open about the meetings, but still expects me to believe that there were times she met an OM at his house and they did not have any sex.

I spent about 6 – 9 months in a transitional phase where I really did want to know the sexual details left unanswered, but was really wary of ripping off the scab that was healing pretty well. Eventually I got to a point where I presume that she did all of those things I presume she did (I know what sex with FWW is like), and I leave that in the past. I am pretty sure she did things much more often and slutty than she has told me, but not so often nor as slutty as I presume.

Since her IC and our work at R, our sex has become much more vanilla than it was prior to dday (when we were actually having sex). No lingerie anymore, no toys, no role play, no dirty talk. There certainly are no planned afternoon meetings like she did with OM, no phone sex, no stexting. Our sex life is the one thing her A really killed, and I do not think is ever going to recover.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No worries SG, if I were a better writer there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. Peace brother.

Details that my brain are obsessing over, but are probably not important to my healing, long-term...KWIM?

I do know what you mean FP. Not needing or wanting to know the details is where I think I tripped-up actually. In my desperation to escape the agony of obsessing, I thought not wanting to know details was more comforting than it actually is. And I'm not saying it isn't comforting to get to the point where you don't want to know the details anymore, just that there's still a long road home once you've cleared that barrier. I lacked the patience and perspective to put that process in it's proper context: a small hurdle cleared, but by no means a major achievement in healing. Proper context in my opinion looks and feels a lot like what atsenaotie was told by Tryn, "they were having sex, and we all know what sex is".

I definitely feel like I'm still on the roller coaster portion...I've heard that the anger stage hits around month 5-6...but I have had ridiculously intense anger/rage from Day 1, so I'm curious to see what happens

The scenario you described as far as MC goes? I had that EXACT SAME experience myself. Exactly. I was also extremely angry from day 1. I remember people talking about the anger stage and thinking "Oh fuck, what's gonna happen when I get there?". But I never did "get there". I think I was there every day for almost a year after dday. I remember coming out of MC about 2 months after dday, the session went well and we made a lot of progress as far as STBXWW was concerned. We were going out for dinner after and I guess I had a shitty look on my face so she caressed my hand and lovingly asks "what's wrong?". I fire back "well let's see, you had a fucking boyfriend for a year up until a couple of months ago, and you'd still have one if I didn't fucking catch your stupid ass". Not exactly a great way to set the tone for a relaxing, enjoyable dinner eh? But the thought of her thinking things were quickly getting better, and MC helping us so much that we'd soon be able to move on from the massive pile of horseshit really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know why I remember it so vividly, because there were dozens if not hundreds of instances like that, but I do. Probably because of your example FP.

That shit smoothes out though. The roller coaster stops, provided she's not being a complete asshole about things and creating new hurts.

As far as sexual details go, I think that's a largely personal thing. Here's the baseline question I always used when it came to sex questions: Did I ever ask for or care if she did that with a guy or boyfriend prior to me? If the answer was no, I wouldn't ask. If it was yes, I would ask.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP,

1)Yep, hit a point at about a year where I realized just how repetitive some of the questions were becoming. Different variations of the questions weren't gonna produce an answer.
2)Realization came when I was able to produce her answer before she did. Seemed a little redundant.

Any new questions I do expect her to answer. As to doing it as a punishment? Maybe a little if I'm being honest. Didn't feel good about myself when I realized that was my goal and not really problem solving.

The sex thing? I'm one who had to know it all for my own peace of mind. The mind movies were blowing my shit up and feeding into my anger. Definitely was affecting the sex life as well. Was having problems with the sharing aspect. Found out what aspects they didn't share and incorporated those into the sex life more fully.

Definitely something you want to consider before asking though. Once you hear/know it it's there. Personally, that helped me process it.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I spent about 6 – 9 months in a transitional phase where I really did want to know the sexual details left unanswered, but was really wary of ripping off the scab that was healing pretty well.

Heard. That's kind of where I'm at, mentally. Like, I've jabbed my fingernail underneath the edge of the band-aid a few times to see if it'll hurt catastrophically to tear off yet, and if I should wait to ask those questions. The few questions I've asked of an explicit sexual nature have left me angrier than before for a while....but then I'm also able to "forget" them sometimes as well...which is not something that occurs with the stuff I don't know.

Since her IC and our work at R, our sex has become much more vanilla than it was prior to dday (when we were actually having sex). No lingerie anymore, no toys, no role play, no dirty talk.

Ours hasn't become totally vanilla, but it has mellowed out. For example, we went out for her bday in February, and her sister came over to watch our son...well, after the sis arrived, we went to our room to get ready, and my wife wanted to "sneak some in" before we left...normally I'd think it was cool and exciting, but her and POSOM had to sneak around his apartment, because his roommate and I are friends/coworkers, and he would've blown that situation up if he found out. So anything that involves late-night sex or sneakiness is out of the picture for me for now.

Proper context in my opinion looks and feels a lot like what atsenaotie was told by Tryn, "they were having sex, and we all know what sex is"

Here's the baseline question I always used when it came to sex questions: Did I ever ask for or care if she did that with a guy or boyfriend prior to me? If the answer was no, I wouldn't ask. If it was yes, I would ask.

I think part of what bothers me is that my wife was extremely buttoned-up sexually when we first got together, and it took a lot of time, patience, trust and conversations in order to explore each other's likes and dislikes and whatnot. So I think part of the desire to know is whether he benefitted from all the 'work' I put in, you know?

Eventually, that ex-boyfriend thing is where I want to get to, mentally. If I tried hard, I'm sure I could picture my wife and her ex-bf having sex...but I don't really try, and on the rare occasion it pops up in my brain, it's fairly easy to push away.

Not exactly a great way to set the tone for a relaxing, enjoyable dinner eh? But the thought of her thinking things were quickly getting better, and MC helping us so much that we'd soon be able to move on from the massive pile of horseshit really rubbed me the wrong way.

Yeah, I'm like this sometimes. Our MC always remarks how young we are to be in MC (29 and 27, respectively), and that many marriages don't ever come in because they rug sweep it and get on with life, and how we're doing really, really well in her opinion. On the one hand, I like hearing that, because I want a stronger marriage, but I also don't want WW to feel like everything's square now, you know?

I fire back "well let's see, you had a fucking boyfriend for a year up until a couple of months ago, and you'd still have one if I didn't fucking catch your stupid ass". Not exactly a great way to set the tone for a relaxing, enjoyable dinner eh?

I had to ask my MC how I should handle moments like that...because what you said? EXACTLY what I want to say. Sometimes I'm pissed off or distant for days at a time.....and how many ways and how many times can you tell your WW in a calm voice "I'm upset because I cannot stop thinking about you having sex with someone else.", before it just sounds redundant...besides the fact that having to say it out loud feels fucking gross. Our MC said to come up with a codeword or signal or something, anything that can convey why I feel the way I feel at that moment.

The sex thing? I'm one who had to know it all for my own peace of mind. The mind movies were blowing my shit up and feeding into my anger. Definitely was affecting the sex life as well. Was having problems with the sharing aspect. Found out what aspects they didn't share and incorporated those into the sex life more fully.

Definitely something you want to consider before asking though. Once you hear/know it it's there. Personally, that helped me process it.

With the way my mind works, I feel like I HAVE to know as well, and that 'sharing' idea up there hit the nail on the head. I want to know what, if anything, is still exclusively 'ours.' Someone else kind of nailed it, methinks: it's probably worse than she's told you, but not as bad as you've imagined.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, April 22nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I think part of the desire to know is whether he benefitted from all the 'work' I put in, you know?

FP, this is something I hate as well, because without being crass, the answer to me is obvious: of course. My wife did things with the OP in weeks that took me years to get her comfortable enough to do. We had a 12 year (I believe) monogamous relationship as husband and wife at the time, plus another 5 years of dating (living together) where we were exclusive before that (except for a time when I moved overseas and we didn't know where our relationship was heading). Most of her techniques, even if she didn't learn them from me, were refined, honed, and mastered on me. And it kills me because I know how sexual she is now, there was so much we did together that she had never tried before. But that took years to get to that comfort level. Meanwhile, player comes along on Ashley Madison, and she goes through our entire playbook in a couple of fuck sessions. Then starts to do things she hadn't done with me or wouldn't do for me to "keep her stud calling". I don't have an answer for this, but it's something I know I'll have to live with no matter what happens. It's not like you puff your chest out and say "that's my girl, I taught her that". I'm only about 17 months out, so I figure I've got a few more years on this one.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heard. That's kind of where I'm at, mentally. Like, I've jabbed my fingernail underneath the edge of the band-aid a few times to see if it'll hurt catastrophically to tear off yet, and if I should wait to ask those questions. The few questions I've asked of an explicit sexual nature have left me angrier than before for a while....but then I'm also able to "forget" them sometimes as well...which is not something that occurs with the stuff I don't know.

Hi FacePunched,

What helped me to get past some of this was the realization I could never know it all, and that there would always be more questions. Early on I often thought that if I just knew a, b & c I would be satisfied. Then, after I found answers to a, b, & c those answers raised the questions d, e, and f. So I decided I knew what I needed to know to heal. Not necessarily to R, but to heal. She had sex with more than one (3-4?) OM and she liked the attention. It was unsafe sex, and there was nothing held as "special" between us because there was no us in her mind. She did things with/to them that she does not do with me.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't need to ask the details, I can see it in how she has/had sex with me at the time. I noticed that my WW was a lot more willing to try things with me during her A. She seemed to be more salacious when it came to sex. She was more "experimental" and bold. I kept wondering why she was so much more sexual all of a sudden. I wasn't really complaining at the time...but...after pondering this and asking questions I came to realize that she was acting out what she was either saying or doing to the OM at the time. Now I can't have sex with her without thinking about that. Ruins it for me completely and I end up walking away feeling used.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS is spot on again...

there was nothing held as "special" between us because there was no us in her mind

That's the real pain. It does not matter what they 'did'.

I myself waver between taking Tryn's perspective of 'we all know what sex is' and leaving it alone, to asking my WW to take me into the room with her, as my therapist calls it, so as I am not excluded from the A experience, meaning it is no longer something shared between OM. and WW. The latter is unfortunately elusive, as my WW was prone to drinking so as to overcome inhibitions/ guilt/ conscience.

I do not yet know if I will ask for more. But in my case, the more is kind of related to digging into my WW's head and soul. The OM was really into control and degradation. He wasn't into the sex itself. He liked to just whack-off with my WW lying there watching. So more details would just be related to how long did he take, etc., and did you bite your nails waiting... Obviously, my WW wanted a real sexual relationship and thought she could 'fix' the OM. So, really what I want to know is "what was/is wrong with you?". Now that I think about it I know the details and they gross me out. I wish it would have been normal sex, then I could wrap my head around it. Maybe I just want the story to change. Crap.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

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