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User Topic: Husband looking for insite
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Red  Posted: 8:55 AM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MeanBean, Please review the guidelines and refrain from posting to other members in such an aggressive manner.

FLAMING & ATTACKING: Please refrain from attacking another member, publicly or by using the Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others. This includes members and non-members.

“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 44928 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I scanned the whole thread and I think there is one pivotal piece of advice missing:
Get the book “Not just friends” by the late Dr. Shirley Glass.

Dr. Glass is the person that defined the term “emotional affair” and I will make the claim that no book I have read or heard off does as great a job of explaining and defining what an emotional affair really is. There are numerous spouses that have been in EA’s without acknowledging it as an EA that have had their light-chain pulled by reading this book.

To me this is a pivotal issue: Your wife doesn’t necessarily see her actions as wrong. She is changing her behavior to please you, but not because she thinks it crossed any line. If she has her “aha” moment when you two read that book… Well it’s definitely worth the try.

On the NC… Your WW wanting to come in and be around OM (even if not talking to him), her actions of sending the coupon… this is comparable to the recently dry alcoholic that orders a beer simply to have one in his hands, to smell it, to carry it around but with no intention to drink it… Never works. There is always that sip. There is always that sense of sacrifice. Your WW needs to see her actions for what they are and then she won’t want any contact with OM for the REAL reasons – not because she’s sacrificing anything.

And I too think the OMW should be told.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really feel like there are things you don't know. I just read the entire thread. You've been concerned about this for 6 years? For a reason. This did not just turn into something recently.

Once busted, she showed where her loyalty lie by talking to him about you. Like he was the one who mattered.

Now, everthing seems so much better. I'm guessing secret cell phone.

Not trying to be rough on you, and if not for the 6 year thing, and her convo with him about what you knew, I might agree that it was an early EA.

But you can't just discount those things. They are hugh red flags.

I don't know if it's an EA or PA or both, but it's something, and I feel like it's been going on for a very long time, and may still be going on.

Have you considered a polygraph to determine the extent of their relationship?

Even if you are totally right, and it was just the beginning of an EA, she is NOT showing the remorse needed for R.

Total NC is a must, as is transparency. Reading Not Just Friends mandatory. Genuine remorse - not there. Trying to make you fee safe - not there. She says the right words but does not follow up with the right actions.

Edited to add, since he and I cross-posted, ANTYTHING Bigger advises you to do is GREAT advice!

[This message edited by sudra at 9:45 AM, January 5th (Saturday)]

Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1492 | Registered: Nov 2010
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Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for your advice, update as of today is that I believe she has got it. I should say my Gut and monitored Intel tells me this.

Bigger, to your point I have already downloaded the book “Not Just Friends” to our tablet that she uses as an e-reader about 3 days after the initial confrontation. She is I think, no I know, is afraid to read it.

I have read it. In the book (the introduction) it talks about how friends with all this new ways to electronically communicate can sometimes start crossing the boundaries and not even know it. From what I saw (chat logs for 3+ months), this is where they were at. There was no bad talk about their marriages, no bad talk about their spouses, just to much communication that I was not aware of, until I found it, that showed an increasing amount of emotional attachment.

Once confronted, she made some poor choices in trying to juggle her “friendship” that went against what she agreed to “not delete stuff”. After the last, she pledged to not delete anything going forward. (line in the sand)

She had agreed to read to book, but as of yet has not started, again I believe she still does not what to put herself labeled as in an emotional affair, she said that she did not like that word.

It has been 3 weeks since or last heated discussion about this, She said that I could trust her, I said no I cannot, and it sucked being married to someone you do not trust, that you could not trust someone 99% you either do, or you do not.

I said I can no longer trust your words as they have lied to me, I will now only trust your actions. I summed it up by saying the only things I know is that you were in an emotional relationship, that you said was inappropriate, he said was inappropriate, you said you would let me know of all contact and not delete things and you lied twice about it. I told her again to get her head out of her ass.

This seemed to hit home, she has not initiated any contact, and he has not even responded to any of her previous attempts of friendly or manufactured attempts by her.

All our conversations since have been about us, and rebuilding trust. She said that we should use this as a learning experience and has spoken of their friendship in the past tense.

Where am I at? My Gut tells me she now understands, this I can cross check with her actions. Will be asking her to complete what she committed to do, read the book.

When I say I can see just about everything, I mean it, these two are not very sharp on electronics, Crist she does not even know how to delete her internet history.

[This message edited by Overcomming at 7:47 AM, January 18th (Friday)]

ME 43
Three Kidos

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I must join those that are warning you to prepare yourself (as much as possible) for the discovery that your wife has been involved sexually with this "friend". Six Years!?! Six Years!?!

Trust your gut from long ago. Your M can only be healthy when your WW is remorseful AND transparent.

When I uncovered my WWs A I did not at that time have proof of her sexual involvement with the AP. I SO wanted to believe that my WWs involvement was limited to a EA, it wasn't.

My WW also contacted AP post D Day, this proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt where her loyallty was.

I completely agree with what I have read others post on SI that; "EAs that are only EAs are as rare as unicorns" and "Thirtysomething adults don't just "flirt" if they have the opportunity to do more, adults know how everything works"

Where I disagree with many SI members is the opinion that an EA is just as bad as a Sexual Affair.Really!?! How many STDs have been transmitted from EAs!?! How many children conceived from EAs!?!Crossing the Sexual boundry is HUGE!

For a short (almost happy) time after discovery I thought I was dealing with an EA - confirmation of the sexual affair was to me emotionally what a firecracker (EA) is to a nuclear bomb (PA)!!

This is why I am encouraging you to please please prepare yourself emotionally!!

Take good care of yourself, know that you did not break her so you can not fix her. You have NO responsibilty for her choice to lie, cheat and steal from your M!

Also, PLEASE PLEASE tell the APs betrayed wife!! It is simply the right moral thing to do. Ask yourself, if the APs betrayed wife had found out first wouldn't you want to know??

[This message edited by whatlysbeneath at 8:20 PM, January 5th (Saturday)]

Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 131 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
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Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still here, still reading

Update and a question:

Things have been quite for the most part, she is very open to my questions and wants to and feels that we are reconnecting and we are closer then we have been in a long while.

But, always a but, Last Saturday night she was working and used her work email to send him an email at his work. Nothing out of the line, just asking how his daughter was feeling (she was sick). Told him she does not check her work email, but will check more if he responds, she tells him she cannot access it from home. I can see it as I have access but she does not know.

Sunday afternoon, she can tell I’m upset, I tell her that I had just reread some of the past stuff and was triggering a little. Around 8 I left unannounced to drive around, (cell off).

When I came home around 9 all lights were off, kids in bed, she came down to the kitchen, started crying, and said she was worried about me.

Told her that the way she was acting (made that up) told my gut that she has had communication with him and has not told me. Told her it must have been from her work, a phone call, message, email or something (I of course already knew)

She then spent the next 15 min with me drilling her and her denying. Very tough
We went to bed, she was trying to cuddle me, I could not sleep, after about 2 hours I went to the basement, had some Jaeger, and listened to the conversation (had it recorded, but she does not know)

Went back to bed and fell asleep at some point.
In the morning we got up, me for work, and she was helping get the kids out to school. She came back into the bed room, sat on the bed and said that there was something she needed to tell me.

She told me that she did email him from work. I asked her why she didn’t tell me last night, she said she was very worried about what my reaction would have been considering my state, but she decided that she needed to tell me.

Monday night talked, Told her that I knew if I didn’t press the issue, she would not have told me. Tuesday more connecting, Wed she calls me at work and tells me she started reading the book “Not Just Friends” and would like to talk about it that night. We talk and go over the quiz in the beginning, we both score the friend ship around a 2 (Strong friendship, with some potential)

I have some questions that I had written down that we openly talked about.
Thursday, I had some more questions, she openly was there to talk about things, I thanked her.

Friday (today) now my question, he responded to her email from last weekend on Monday, nothing but answering her questions (typical friendship stuff like past communications). She does not know that he responded, and will not know till she goes to work tonight. I could delete his email and I believe she would not know, (web based).

Should I delete it or watch?

I’m leaning watch, as this would be a method of communication that I could monitor, all the past one they stopped when she became aware that I was monitoring.

Have a great weekend.

ME 43
Three Kidos

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Watch and don't delete it.

Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1215 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Told him she does not check her work email, but will check more if he responds, she tells him she cannot access it from home.
This is NOT "Nothing out of line". It is So disrespectful. She doesn't care about how you feel AT ALL right now. She knows it is wrong, so she is telling him that they can talk through work email behind your back. She is taking this further underground!

she came down to the kitchen, started crying, and said she was worried about me.
In my opinion, that is BS! The way I see it, she is not worried about you! She is worried about how much you know.

She then spent the next 15 min with me drilling her and her denying

My FWW did this to me too. Before I knew she was cheating on me, I found an email to a guy..Nothing too bad, but it was her ex boyfriend. I had JUST seen the email, and she denied, denied, denied. I was dumbfounded. I had NEVER known her to lie to me before. That's the first time I ever questioned my blind trust of her. I found out later that lie was just one of many over the previous 2.5 years!

I asked her why she didn’t tell me last night, she said she was very worried about what my reaction would have been considering my state.
She didn't tell you, not to protect you, but to protect herself. She was, and is, hiding something.

I knew if I didn’t press the issue, she would not have told me.
Absolutely right! And you might wanna get used to this pattern. She doesn't want to tell you anything, unless she has to. You're going to have to face the fact that she is not trustworthy at this point.

Should I delete it or watch?
Don't delete it! Watch and see what happens. Let her think she has a secret way to communicate with he OM for a while. But prepare yourself for when you get that undeniable proof. IMO, you are eventually going to get some undeniable proof, and maybe when it's right there in black and white you will stop denying what has been going on for so long.

I really hope I am wrong, but I really don't think I am. I see so much of myself in you, and my heart is just breaking. You're acting so much like I did when I first started getting worried. I just want you to stand up for yourself, trust your gut, you know the truth. Best of luck to you, and remember we're all here for you!

[editted for spelling and format]

[This message edited by faithfulfool at 10:25 AM, January 18th (Friday)]

Me: BH(33)
Her: fWW(31)
Married 8 yrs, together 15. no kids
D-day: 7/15/11
TT thru 4/24/12

Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: The South (USA)
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Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your WW is "fishing". Trying to re-establish communications and taking it underground, behind your back!!!!

You've done the bounderies and NC talk......and she continues to break both.

I would continue to monitor her email and see how far she takes it. It's gonna get bad now that OM responded.

Posts: 1545 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
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Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, July 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Update, Good news (if there is any) this was a low grade EA that was growing by the day, I spotted the changes and confronted.

My wife kept lying about the contact for two months which caused extreme damage.

She then after two months went total transparent, letting me know of just about all contact and not deleting things, thought I was settling in, but it’s tough to see your wife on the phone with another married man for 30-45 min every few weeks, and ongoing texting and FB messaging. But that was the deal, and she was sticking with it.

Unfortunately this just made me go crazy; always looking over my shoulder, wondering what would be next. Things between us grew great, we were connecting again.

After so many lines in the sand that have been crossed, I was feeling week, but after 3 months I told myself that she would not be attending a summer scout camp where he would be, I told her for 4 months this would be very bad for the marriage. Told her I would not be attending with our son, that he was old enough (13) to be more than fine by himself.

About 1 month out I get the feeling that she is planning to go, this set off some sever anxiety, as I know what it would mean. She saw my pain, but was insistent on going.

(New Comers LISTEN)
The day before she was to come home, I made the call that I should have made 7 months ago, and spared myself the worst hell I would not wish on anyone. I called his wife, she to had concerns, told her what had taken place, told her if there was any chance of them continuing their friendship that she would have to know the back story.

We talked for 30 min, and then met for another 30 min, and I gave her some screen shots of all their communication and call logs of all their calls, and SHE THANKED me about 5-6 times.

She texted me the next day, that she talked to him and they are just really good friends, but because of the amount of time and energy they were spending on each other that she was demanding that he befriend her on FB, delete her cell #, and email.

So there after 7 months it’s over, for now. I told her that night that I had talked to his wife, and she is pissed. I told her just 4 hours before you were saying how much we have grown and how close we are to each other, now I’m dealing with her sorrow.

Bottom line, if you’re reading this, take the advice of the kind people who post here in an attempt to help you, if I had made that call 7 months ago, things would have ended with a lot less pain.

ME 43
Three Kidos

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think she lied and most people who get away with their affairs do it again. We are just so happy to have our families stay together that we ignore the truth. I believed i caught it in time and 15 years later he did it again. I knew the first time was a lie as he said and acted exactly the same way the next time around. His AP's BH was fooled and accepted everything she told him, while she was throwing herself at him all over their workplace. The WS counts on our trust to fool us, because we love and trust them and why would we ever think they would cheat?

Posts: 2175 | Registered: Mar 2011
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Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, July 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read this whole thread and I am so glad you contacted the OM's BW. you did the right thing.

I hope your wife can pry her head out of her bum.


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
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Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, July 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I didn't read *all* of the thread here, but I wanted to say that I'm really happy for you that you caught this and I'm impressed with how you dealt with it. My WS started a friendship with a coworker that gave me the willies and I begged him not to have too many interactions with her (she was getting a divorce and he helped her move, let her mother invite him over for a family "thank you" meal, etc). I would cry and say that it didn't seem right, but he would tell me I'm crazy.

He started talking about her a lot randomly in conversations (e.g., I would show him a pair of shoes and he would tell me how much she likes shoes). They would run errands together on weekends. He played the "helping her out since she left her husband" card. I never had a reason to doubt him before, so I tried not to be the jealous type. I have male friends I go to the movies with, go shopping with, etc after all.

Family members starting warning me something didn't seem right. "He's allowed to have a friend!" I would tell them.

Fast forward 6 months and I found out they started a PA in February (clearly an EA earlier than that). He tried R for about a nano-second, took the A underground. I found out and yadda yadda, we haven't spoken in 2 months and I now live on the opposite coast.

If I had been more vigilant like you were, maybe this would have all been avoided. On one hand, I'm glad to find out his true character after 10 years (the A and his poor handling of R after the fact). On the other hand, how many A could be avoided if the BS wasn't afraid to do what you have done...

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
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Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, July 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is it, line drawn, she is extremely up set, as expected, but no more, told her she is free to have this friendship but not as my wife. I will not go back to where I was, no more. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Thanks everyone, including MeanBean for your 2 x 4’s

ME 43
Three Kidos

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read this entire thread with great interest. I am relatively new here, but I have survived my WH EA and like PA(just barely). I could FEEL your pain...the loss of appetite, inability to sleep. Nothing can compare to dishonesty/betrayal from your spouse. You tried so hard to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she clearly will have to be watched. I wish I had done things differently when I discovered my WS EA over a year ago. I would have acted "normal" while continuing my private investigations. I could probably have got more info. All WS did was become more secretive- got a second phone- private email and lied constantly about his whereabouts. WS and OW both told me they fell in love, feel like soul mates, have a deep connection, feel like they have known each other forever....BUT, they said they will never discontinue contact. That would be me trying to "control" him and who he could have for a friend. They said they will just remain friends because they have "integrity and standards" and will never act on their feelings. (Apparently they are also not even human.) Once the lies start - it is very difficult for them to stop. WS become intoxicated with OW or OM. Be VERY watchful and don't let your guard down....I hope it will be OK, but I am very worried for you. I drew the line and am filing for divorce. Of course, my WS blatantly refused NC - so he basically left me with no option.

Me: 50
WH: 50 pro cake-eater, NPD, SA
Married 33 years
D-Days 3-4-12, 8-19-12 (EA, probably PA)porn,ashleymadison, etc, etc
4 sons, 3 daughters
8 grandkids
Divorcing - finally

Posts: 120 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Utah
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