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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-10
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok, ladies, need some advice here. I think I am getting better at seeing others' situations for what they are (i.e., seeing through the bullshit their SAs are serving them), but in my own personal situation, not so much...

We saw the CSAT for the first time together last week. Long story short, WH failed the SAST-R; here are his results:
S-2
C-1
D-17
X-0
The CSAT commented on how WH's results were not valid because his test showed a lot of "anxiety" - I think the "D" stands for defensiveness, perhaps? So, the results were not valid. Notice how the other scores are very low (I think S might stand for sexual acting out, C for compulsiveness, not sure about X). So, I think it looks like WH tried to "game" the test to make it look like he wasn't an SA.

CSAT asked WH what his anxiety was about and WH said that he didn't trust my motivations; thought that maybe I was doing this so I could get custody of the children. Said that I had "checked out" of the M and he felt I was done. (I have "checked out" because he continues to tell me that my feelings are crazy and I won't put myself out there anymore only to get hurt again and again).

Another gem from the session was that WH "didn't see a direct line between" his masturbation and our lack of sex life. CSAT said that was not true, it is correlated. WH also said that he has masturbated his entire life and never had sexual problems in his other relationships; there were other things going on in our relationship that contributed to his not wanting to have sex with me.

After the CSAT appointment, WH asked if I wanted to talk about the homework we were given: "what do you each want out of your M?" We had a long discussion and the gist is that WH doesn't think he's an SA, he's been doing some "research" and said that he feels that CSAT and Patrick Carnes are uber-Christian, moralistic because they think masturbation is bad. He was really holding on to the masturbation thing, really didn't want to give it up. He said the last time he M was 2 months ago on his last business trip. He also said that there are other ways to treat SA. Said he was forced into going to CSAT or I would D him.

And, an unrelated shocker: I snooped on his personal email account and found that he opened up another bank account last month! He has not mentioned this to me and he is the primary breadwinner, I am SAHM. How would you proceed with this?

I am thinking that I need to D this guy... shall I choose to tell him on Christmas, my D-day?


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Numb, I don't like that he opened a bank account and didn't talk to you. That is not a good sign. I had made it a condition of R that I had a bank account in my name with a certain amount of money in it that he could not access. I can show him proof of the balance, but he can't touch it. Setting up the secret bank account either means he's using it to pay for acting out, or he's trying to syphon off assets before D stuff happens.

As for the test. I have no idea what those letters mean. As I understand it, there is a number of questions, and if you say yes to more than 6 you have a problem. Then there are subsets of scores that indicate particular problems, and they are labeled as Preoccupation, Loss of Control, Relationship Disturbance, Affect Disturbance. IDK exactly what those are, but I'm sure you can read up on it. There are also other subsets of results to determine if it is an internet problem, deviant problem, etc. So just going on raw numbers without knowing the categories, yeah, I'd say he has a problem.

I do not remember discussing these particular categories when SAWH was diagnosed. What I remember mostly is that he had unusually high scores in compartmentalization, which indicated that getting to the truth would be much more difficult, because they are good at hiding everything and lying in general.

So if I were you, I'd call back and ask what those categories are and especially what the one with the 17 is so you have an idea what you are dealing with.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM - I am not sure about the tests either. maybe call the CSAT and ask for clarification. As far as the bank account, that is a big red flag! I think it isn't unusual for SAs not wanting to admit they are SAs and not wanting to share their acting out. I know in my state there is no client privilege for therapists and that causes my SAWH to be wary that it will be used against him in court. I forget has he been to any SA meetings?

Hath - How are you doing today? I really admire how well you handle all of this. Don't think I could be nearly as calm.

Lastin - Hope you are o.k. Just know you are being thought of!

AFM, there was another test yesterday. Thankfully, I got an A. Things are going well, SAWH has an appointment today with his new CSAT. Then we are going to try and finish car shopping. He is going out of town tomorrow and that triggers me. Going to stay busy and work out, haven't done that in the last month.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, an unrelated shocker: I snooped on his personal email account and found that he opened up another bank account last month! He has not mentioned this to me and he is the primary breadwinner, I am SAHM. How would you proceed with this?

NEM, can you post this question on the Separation and Divorce thread?

Before you tell him that you might divorce him, there are checklists of things you should do. Information you should collect. You might have already done some of it, but you'll get good advice on S&D from people who have BTDT.

He's shown you that he is a liar and is hiding money from you. The best predictor of behavior during a divorce is behavior before the divorce. Magnified by a million. So you want to be as prepared as possible BEFORE letting him know that you're seriously contemplating a divorce. Divorcing him might not be easy. He refuses to admit he has a problem, and he is hiding money - those are red flags for a high-conflict divorce.

As for the test, my STBX took that one. It's only as good as his truthfulness. I recall a lot of questions like, "Is your preoccupation with sex interfering with your work?" STBX said no. I remember blowing a gasket because it certainly WAS interfering with his work.

Good luck to you. No matter what you end up doing re: divorce, it would put you in a better position to have done all the prep work in advance. To protect yourself and your children in the long run.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the advice, ladies. I just posted on S/D. I reread the email and it is worse than I thought:

Thank you for choosing Bank X and establishing your accounts with me earlier this month. I appreciate your business and look forward to working with you as your personal banker.
 
As it has been almost two weeks from account opening I wanted to make sure that you have received the debit card in the mail at your office downtown. I'll follow up again in the coming weeks once your company has had a chance to establish your direct deposit to make sure the account is running smoothly for you.

Holy fuck - he is going to change his direct deposit to another bank and not tell me!

He gets paid on the 15th, so I think I will wait and see if his check gets deposited in our joint account. In the meantime, I'll call my L and see what he has to say about this.

I'm thinking that WH set this up as a precaution when I told him I would be Ding him if he didn't make CSAT appt and that he may not go through with it, but I could be wrong and I am going to be really weary and proactive, obviously.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
lastin12
♀ Member
Member # 34709
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I still feel so lost and sad, like I could've done more... made him go to church instead of him asking why he wasn't going and made him continue counseling/12 step. I've cried so much the last twp days, I don't think I have any tears left. And sleep, forget about it. When will I start feeling better? When will I stop missing him? When will I realise I am better off? Thank you again... being here helps!

[This message edited by lastin12 at 1:19 PM, December 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: New York
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((lastin)))
I still feel so lost and sad, like I could've done more... made him go to church instead of him asking why he wasn't going and made him continue counseling/12 step.

Lastin, you've just expressed the problem in a nutshell. YOU couldn't have done anything more. Church is NOT going to help an addict anyhow. And YOU can't MAKE him continue counseling or 12-step programs. This is the problem that everyone here faces: you can't MAKE an addict do anything.

They have to do it themselves. Otherwise, it's meaningless. It's a destructive co-dependent dance, and it's hurting you so much. You've stepped away, and now you need to start using all your energy to take care of yourself.

Are you getting help for yourself? Confiding in people in real life?

(((HUGS))) I'm sorry this is so painful for you.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lastin, I agree with hope. Church doesn't fix this. My H is significantly more religious than I am and I suspect some of that ties into the shame and addiction cycle for him. In other words, more church would not have helped.

NandN- Oh please take care of yourself, I worry for you financially. Immediately after DDays, my H checks our joint savings because he thinks the first sign that I'm gonna run is if I take half or all of it. Also the fact that his first instinct goes to self preservation and holding onto $$ rather than fixing him or the M pisses me off and is a bad sign IMO. My H's other concern is that I'm gonna take him for half the house he owns. At the time that was how I knew he hadn't seen a L because even I knew that if it was his asset before marriage, I couldn't touch it.

What a dick. Does he think you're not gonna notice when his next paycheck doesn't come into your joint account on the 15th? Sounds like he is getting his ducks in a row, I really hope you are doing the same. The folks in D/S are in WAR and war is ruthless.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Numb, this is what I would do. And I kind of did, but in a different way.

I would also go set up an account he cannot access. Move some money in there, maybe out of savings if you can so it is not as obvious as moving it out of checking. Then tell him that day why. Because he was dishonest and set up an account without consulting you. That it was clear he is moving money without consulting you. That of course bills will still be paid (if they would have otherwise from those funds) and you can show him statements, and in the event of D like all assets it will be split up per your D laws. S&D can give you more guidance on this exactly. I would also go get a credit card in my name only and go lawyer up, ASAP. And tell him you want copies of all his credit reports, to see what other accounts are out there you don't know about. Your L is going to probably ask you for one anyway, better that you get it voluntarily than pay the L to subpeona to get it.

While I did set an account and move money, initially it was all laid out beforehand and he was on board as a condition of R. When I found out he had spent thousands of dollars on ED drugs without my knowledge, and omitted that from his first disclosure, I moved the rest of our savings into that account and told him the same day. That he had lost my trust and could not be trusted with our savings.

I am not saying go full on prepared to D. I'm saying protect yourself and educate yourself on your options. He clearly has.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
lastin12
♀ Member
Member # 34709
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am in IC and have been for over a year. I see her regularly. Plus, I moved in with my parents who are the most amazing supportive parents. The don't ask any questions, but are always her to hug me and wipe my tears away.

Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: New York
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lastin - I'm glad you have lots of support i real life. Hang in there.

Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Shutup  Posted: 5:17 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lastin, I'm going to be the bitch with a 2x4 and say something flat out: If you've been in regular counseling for a year, yet you still have the mindset to wonder what else you shoulda/woulda/coulda done to force another adult, let alone an addict, to change themself, you need a different counselor.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8778 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, I personally believe being a spouse/partner of SA requires very specific trauma therapy. And that you have to address that first before even thinking about MC, which also requires a therapist specialized in SA or at least addiction. Going to anyone else is not going to get you the results you need, as fast as you need.

Our first stop in counseling was with a garden-variety MC, basically so I could have a therapist tell him he had a problem that took our insurance. Thank GOD she referred us to a CSAT, and she didn't try to treat him or us. The things she suggested would have been great for someone who was having communication issues, etc but in our case would have been horrific.

Investing in a CSAT to do lead my therapy efforts is the best thing I could have done for myself. I can really tell the difference in the people in my S-Anon group who go to one, and who rely solely on S-Anon for their support.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with Hath and NG. MC is a waste of time with a SA who is not well along some path of recovery.

I loved going to see the CSAT after D-Day. He understood like no one else.

But at some point, I switched to a wonderful, tough, pragmatic psychologist who specializes in divorce. She has carried me along to this point. When I say something about "shoulda woulda" she just shakes her head and asks, "So, what do you REALLY think would happen if you forced STBX to go to church more often? Would going to mass really have stopped him from having CL sex and being obsessed with S&M for the past 20+ years?" Et cetera.

Understanding that you can't fix another person is the hardest thing I've ever had to learn. It goes against everything I've ever been taught.

((Lastin))


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmm. Good point Hope. I guess I never really thought of that since my CSAT is a tough old broad who did divorce her SA. So I am hoping I am covered there. But yeah, after the trauma has been dealt with, if you are headed for a messy D, or if you are having trouble making yourself go through with a D when you know it's the right thing to do, that makes total sense to switch to a divorce therapist.

But like NG said, YMMV. If you have somebody that is not making you feel better, is not helping you develop tools to go forward in your healing, then you NEED to get a different therapist. Because either they aren't doing it right, or they aren't doing it right for YOU. Regardless of credentials.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a therapist in my town that works with divorcees of SAs. She is in the same office as a CSAT. Hopefully I won't need her. My CSAT is a COSA and divorced her SA, that wouldn't get help. Well, SAWH went to his new CSAT today and really liked him. He has a much more rigorous approach and expects really strong commitments to recovery. He also has an SA group at his office once a week. We'll see how it goes.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My pap was abnormal - ASCUS, HPV negative. Not sure if it implicates WH or not. Anyone else have this situation?


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me check my micro book. We are going more I depth on STDs right now. So it is HPV negative?

Dang it is not in the car! I can't check until tonight.

[This message edited by Missymomma at 4:23 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forgot that I had this in my early 30s. They waited a few months and tested again, it was then negative for squamous cells and I didn't have to do anything. What did your doctor say?


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
lastin12
♀ Member
Member # 34709
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I wanted to update everyone. I am finally angry and it feels great.

My SAWH work for the same department and share many of the same friends. I get along with 99% of the people I work with and they know I've been having a difficult time. My boss and work friends have been so supportive. I happen to live (w/my parents) 2 min from work. Last night one of my friends who is a male stopped by to check on me becasue he saw me crying while I was leaving work yesterday. I sat and talked to him for about 5 min and he left. We'll someone told my SAWH and he asked me about it. I told him nope don't know what you're talking about and why does it matter anyway. He proceeded to tell me he knew who, the # on the vehicle and he shouldn't have been in my area. I said well if you know, why did you ask?

He then completely flipped out on me. I'm talking 40 text msgs today. Accusing me of lying and cheating on him. I about lost it. He said why would you lie and then tell the truth, you must have something to hide, I thought better of you, is this why you're not sleeping because you have a guilty conscious... He went on and on. I finally shot back and asked how he slept so damn good all these years. I probably should've thrown in the fact that I know about the massage parolors too, but I didn't. I finally told him I didn't want to fight and to please leave me alone. He said, I'm not going to leave you alone until I get the truth from you. He then said I'm filing tomorrow and you're making this so much easier.

He hasn't contacted me since. I did get really upset and cry, but I think because he was attacking my character.. Yeah maybe it looked bad that someone from work was checking on me, but at the end of the day, I don't owe him shit!!

[This message edited by lastin12 at 9:00 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


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