Thinking of you all.
((((((hugs to SA spouses)))))))
Your H has some issues, Issa (which I know you already know). I would probably say to him, "You've had six OW in the past year and you still can't settle down? Then you have some serious issues, whether they be SA related or not. Even if you leave me, no one is ever going happy with you in a relationship because you always have someone on the side. You're not Warren Jeffs; you don't get to have six wives. You need help."
N & N, it's nice to hear from you.
We talked for almost an hour. The first few minutes were fine, but the he asked why I gave up on him and us. He also asked why I was fighting for us. I tried to explain to him that Iíve been fighting for us our entire relationship and then I asked where he was. He managed to make me feel guilty by saying my lack of communication skills and not confronting him/threatening to leave a long time ago was a problem. He said I showed no self respect by not standing up to him. I tried to explain to him that I believed his words and had no hard evidence. That at times I felt like I was going crazy. I also brought up the fact like I asked him to go back to counseling a few weeks ago and his response was, why, whatís it going to help? He said I should have tried asking him again or made him go. He said itís sad that I could only seem to communicate over the phone or in front of a counselor. He ended with if a miracle happens and I decide to work on things, heís all ears.
Iím not going back, but I really donít know what to think. Iím sad that he thinks I didnít fight, Iím not really sure what he expects me to do. We would still be going through the same old shit if he had never answered that fake ad and I told him so. Why do I still care what he thinks/feels? I almost brought up the fact that I knew that he had paid for sex before and been to massage parlors, but I didnít want to embarrass him. Why do I care? Iím so frustrated!!
Just wanted to pop in and hug you all. I don't post much, but I do read. My heart breaks for you all.
Like Issaquah, I also wonder if it's possible for an SA to go completely dry.
In my SAH's case, no. My SAH was white knuckling by avoiding the hc porn, and IRL acting out- including MB. So, yay- he wasn't wacking off or meeting up w/people during his attempt to stop himself, but that time was such hell in the way he treated me and our M.
The only thing left of him when he white knuckled, was an addict who was not using his drug at that time (5 yrs white knuckle-fest confirmed w/polygraph). As an undiagnosed SA at that time, SAH was a time bomb waiting to explode and A/O again. He did engage in middle circle behaviors that gave him a whiff of his drug- scanning, swimsuit girls, R movies- all without MB, but still slippery slope stuff.
I think the true sign of the SA is the lack of emotional intimacy.
My SAH could stop himself w/AO for long periods, but could not /did not know how to have a healthy, intimate relationship- which is why he had been A/O in the past. In fact, when he was not A/O, he was still an ass because he wasn't numbing his feelings w/his drug and he did not know how do relate while he was sober. It took 7 long and painful months and me prepping for D, after a big intensive/disclosure intervention for him to even start to show signs of intimacy. CSAT has described SAH as emotionally stunted. It is like he was a 13 or 14 yr old.
Right now SAH is meeting all requirements to stay- 2 SAA meetings/week, FOO EMDR w/Childhood trauma IC, CSAT and men's church group. The most impressive progress has been with FOO EMDR. I have seen more change in him w/EMDR than all the SA stuff combined. Much more empathetic,engaged and thoughtful than ever before. A different acting person-but still SA.
Don't get me wrong, though. I have my ducks quietly lined up if needed, and he takes poly-g every 6 months or by my request. His next one is in Jan w/CSAT. As long as I see intimacy improving, IC/CSAT/meetings attended and he passes his poly-gs, he has the privilege of staying in the M and being a part of our family. Lots of vigilance from both of us in R.
((lastin12)) boy does your post ring a bell w/me. My SAH at the beginning had every kind of tatic to put his s#@t on me.
He said I should have tried asking him again or made him go.
My SAH had this kind of talk in his bag of tricks. Do not fall for this kind of talk- it is crazymaking. You are not crazy. This kind of talk tries to put the responsibility on anyone other than the addict. Only he can make himself go get C.
Peace to you all- ccg
I know his words are more games, I just want them to stop without me having to be a bitch to him. It feels good right when I do it, but then after I swear I feel worse. I hope it stops soon and I'll just stop answering the phone all together.
Thanks to everyone...
Lastin - Stay strong! He is just trying to hoover you back in.
Cupcakegirl - Sounds like you two are well onto the road of recovery!
Qvee - Absolutely agree about the lack of intimacy!
Just realized in a conversation with SAWH that it really bothers me that he doesn't take info in from me but that when someone else tells him the same thing he listens. I was telling him for over a year that his IC just stunk. Once our MC pointed it out, then he heard it. Now he has started with a very good CSAT and it just irks me that we wasted so much time and money!
How do you know if the CSAT stinks or is any good? So far, WH's guy has emailed a bunch of stuff following their two sessions, & he had to ask the first time because CSAT forgot to send it. This Fri will be their 3rd session, & his homework was to fill out the 3 circles & I think an emergency plan. He seems to get as much if not more out of his SA group mtgs.
WH's acting out (besides the 2 affairs 3 yrs ago) came in the form of compulsive mb to lesbian porn videos. To my knowledge that's all, but the more I read on here it sure makes me wonder. My gut tells me he's telling the truth, but you know how that can go. He's 31 days "sober" (we're doing 90 days of abstinence too) & feeling very strong & good. I just hope his CSAT is a good one. He's $150/session & doesn't take insurance, so he sure ought to be!
Thinking of all of you. Lastin, stray strong & ignore his attempts to guilt trip you. He should have been the one fighting for you! Numb...hope you're doing okay. I know this is such a difficult time of year to not have peace in your life. 2013 will be better.
Thst you are already getting the 90 day abstinence (which I had to find out about from my CSAT) and already doing the homework is a great sign.
Here is my latest update that I just posted in my S/D thread:
We went to CSAT today. WH took SAST (screening test to see if he is a sex addict) and results were "invalid" (=he lied) on first try; he took it again and we got results: invalid again. CSAT asked some questions, then said that he thinks WH is addicted to masturbation and his pornography use is problematic and the reason that I am feeling "used" when we have sex.
Afterwards, WH said he thought it was a good session. He didn't elaborate much.
He continues to transfer money back into our joint account; he got the checks for the new account and will write a check for whatever is left to go to our joint account. I have the online password to the new account so I can monitor it.
Overall, I think things seem like they are headed in the right direction, but who knows? I am so tired now. Haven't even bought Christmas gifts for my FOO....
ETA: (((((SA spouses)))))) Thanks for all your support!
[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 11:47 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]
FYI/TMI - we haven't had sex since his last attempt to act out about 2 months ago, so I am forcing the abstinence.
married 16 years, 2 kids: 11 DD, 13 DS
In process of R
Also, the 30 or 90 day absitinence usually means no sex, no MB, no porn, no sexual stimulation at all (and this includes him just doing you). So just because he is not having sex with you does not mean he is abstaining in the manner that is usually required in recovery.
From what I understand from my CSAT, this is a critical step in addiction therapy of any kind because the brain has to not have those chemical reactions for that amount of time if there is any chance of recovery. I don't think any CSAT will dispute that total abstinence forever is a not realistic solution, but I do think some do disagree about abstinence periods. For me, it only makes sense. If you can't quit something for 30 days, then you have a big problem. And if it helps rewire your addled brain, then why wouldn't you want to try?
My SAH and I chose abstinence while we waited for initial CSAT intensive/polygraph. Initially we agreed to go for about 6 months, but it was a bit longer since after the p-graph I found out so much more than originally thought I knew.
CSAT did not order abstinence. We read about this and decided together. He also abstained from mb/porn, which he was already white knuckling at the time.
I think taking this break led us to focus on other behaviors. I felt so much safer knowing I would not be "used". It was like a reset for our relationship. We both talked about this and agreed to it.
Hugs and peace. ccg
Right now I do not believe he's acting out, but he is increasing his alcohol consumption - so he might be cross addicting - if, he does have an SA problem.
Okay - back to trying to focusing on myself (trying is the keyword), I'm just trying to make sense of all of this and the past 17 years.
If he's highly motivated (and my H is), can he white-knuckle it for years?
Yes, mine did it for six years. The CSATs told me this is not uncommon. He did go to IC, MC, group therapy, and 12-step meetings during part of this time. And he seemed like he was better. For the first four years he seemed very contrite and seemingly healthy (going to the gym, finding religion, surrounding himself by wonderful people). He even appeared to have empathy and remorse.
But when he fell of the wagon, it was spectacular. One for the record books.
You can never trust an addict.
After I caught him thoughts of SA were in the back of my head, but I didn't say anything - I rug swept and we moved to he didn't have to travel to New Orleans (not a good place for a SA - that's for sure).
After our move he was good for about 18 months - but went back full force and had 6 different PA's. I did catch him looking at porn once, I have no idea about MB issues...
For him, it's not just the sex though. When I went to a couple of S-Anon meetings their SA husbands were all about the sex, with my WH he also gets a real ego boost (comfort - his words) from the infatuation feelings and chase. I think for him the hook-ups weren't as satisfying without a little EA added. I don't know - still not sure???
Hugs to you, ((((Choosing))))
ETA: This is probably a stupid question, but I assume there's no way of knowing if they are truly working on recovery or just faking it, is there?
[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 8:04 PM, December 20th (Thursday)]