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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-10
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, January 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, my loving friends, this may be long. But I need your broad shoulders, and hugs and wisdom, and just general presence in my mixed up life.

I am back in the darkness. It's mostly of my own doing.

About a month ago a picture appeared on my SAfWH's computer. It was of one of his former students, he coached her, she was serving a tennis ball. NOT sexy, not suggestive, and I am 99.99999% certain he didn't even know it was there. I am also 90% certain he didn't use pictures of his students as part of his conscious SA acting out, although he admits there was a hidden part that was salacious. I believe that. He had progressed to very ugly, violent porn by the time I discover his SA. Anyway, that set me back, a lot. I felt like I felt 3 years ago. We talked it out in MC, he seemed to get it, we move on.

MC suggested that we try to journal some of our issues. Since I am wont to "stuff" because I just don't want to deal with things, she suggests this may be a way for him to process things if they trigger me, rather than just react badly. He agrees, but is obviously sceptical.

We are theater goers. Not the movies, don't even watch much tv together. There are often theater scenes that trigger me. Well, one scene in particular did. And his response to that scene, rocking and bebopping, REALLY triggered me. So I wrote it out. VERY carefully. I wrote a few sentences on HOW I FELT, asking that he respond with just an acknowledgement of MY FEELINGS and possibly a plan of what we can do next time, short of skipping the theater.

Long story short, he completely blew it. His response was that he was reacting to the music, not the scene on the stage. Even if that were the case, he didn't even address the problem...MY FEELINGS about the situation.

We talked it out in MC. He knows it. He went to extra meetings. Talked to sponsor, did recovery work, did it all.

BUT I AM A MESS. I am bitchy, short tempered, nasty. Damn it! In December I was actually starting to feel that I could begin to let down my guard. That I wanted to be affectionate. Now the walls are up and reinforced. I don't know if I will EVER be able to let anyone in again.

I truly hate who I have become. I liked the loving, caring, giving person I was before all this. But I am so afraid of being hurt again....I am so wary of letting down my guard.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2931 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, January 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Kat)))

Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
putonahappyface
♀ Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, January 27th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry, Kat. I don't think any of us will ever be who we were before; I just don't think it's possible. But we can be strong, happy & feel contentment again. At some point you'll have to decide if that's more possible with him, or without him. Hugs & prayers.


BS (me) - 49; SAWH- 50 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 20 &16
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: found lots of porn on phone: SA discovery


Posts: 708 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi SK,

I will give you my perspective on what you have written.

First, the picture....

About a month ago a picture appeared on my SAfWH's computer. It was of one of his former students, he coached her, she was serving a tennis ball. NOT sexy, not suggestive, and I am 99.99999% certain he didn't even know it was there. I am also 90% certain he didn't use pictures of his students as part of his conscious SA acting out, although he admits there was a hidden part that was salacious. I believe that. He had progressed to very ugly, violent porn by the time I discover his SA. Anyway, that set me back, a lot. I felt like I felt 3 years ago. We talked it out in MC, he seemed to get it, we move on.

SA is not just about sex. We know that from our reading and studying about it. SA also involves a huge fantasy component. The way I see what you wrote, it is stuff that for my H would be middle circle behavior. My H did have fantasies that were nonsexual (at least they started that way). I remember once discovering a file folder on his computer. This file folder had pictures to me that seemed bizarre. A fancy car, a yacht, and pictures of a television news anchor from another state. Come to find out, the woman was someone my H had went to high school with and looked up to go with this bizarre fantasy. I am not saying that your H was engaging actively in a fantasy at this time, but much like scanning the temptation is there, and that is why it is triggering you. The image doesn't have to be sexy or suggestive to be middle circle behavior.

Now on to the trigger...

We are theater goers. Not the movies, don't even watch much tv together. There are often theater scenes that trigger me. Well, one scene in particular did. And his response to that scene, rocking and bebopping, REALLY triggered me. So I wrote it out. VERY carefully. I wrote a few sentences on HOW I FELT, asking that he respond with just an acknowledgement of MY FEELINGS and possibly a plan of what we can do next time, short of skipping the theater.

Long story short, he completely blew it. His response was that he was reacting to the music, not the scene on the stage. Even if that were the case, he didn't even address the problem...MY FEELINGS about the situation.

We talked it out in MC. He knows it. He went to extra meetings. Talked to sponsor, did recovery work, did it all.

We KNOW that triggers are very real! We feel them for a long time. I know at first I had troubles even going to the grocery store or the mall with my H for about a year, because I knew he struggled with scanning, and I felt like everyone was a trigger! I love to dance, and two years ago we started going out dancing again, and on our first outing I was majorly triggered. At that time, my H was approximately 1.5 years into recovery. It was rough. We had a big fight about the trigger. He was angry and defensive, but then broke down and acknowledged my trigger. Now, we go out dancing 3 times a month, and I can honestly say I am over the triggers there.

Last year I triggered badly during a romantic get away. We had went with a few other couples to a microbrewery and nice hotel. My H got really (uncharacteristically) drunk and passed out as soon as we got back to the hotel. I was very upset and felt rejected, and it triggered those abandonment feelings. On our way home, a 3 hour drive, we talked about it. Instead of anger, he acknowledged my trigger right off the bat and took responsibility for the acting out and intimacy avoidance he has done in the past. He was very upset with himself for getting that drunk, and hasn't drank more than 3 beers at a time since. There was a huge difference in how he handled this trigger than the dance club trigger of a few years ago.

I don't feel that your H did a good job of handling your trigger, and that is why you are feeling insecure and the need to protect yourself. He had the opportunity to do exactly what you asked (you even laid it out for him) and he chose not to, to either defend himself in some way or to deflect blame from his past acting out behaviors. I think the most important thing a SA in recovery can do it to acknowledge our feelings with true remorse and to make amends to us. I know that my H's amends letter to me was very powerful. Not that I didn't know the things he needed to make amends for, but to see him stating it in black and white and see that he sees I was wronged. That acknowledgement and understanding does bring some degree of security and fosters trust.

As for going to extra meetings, talking to his sponsor and doing recovery work, that is all nice, but unless he intends to truly handle the next trigger differently, it is meaningless. It is very hard for a recovering SA to really get to a point of empathy. They spend so much of their life and energy avoiding feelings, that to feel for someone else really is foreign and a behavior and skill they must learn and foster. How is he saying he is going to handle your next trigger?

Finally...

I am back in the darkness. It's mostly of my own doing.

BUT I AM A MESS. I am bitchy, short tempered, nasty. Damn it! In December I was actually starting to feel that I could begin to let down my guard. That I wanted to be affectionate. Now the walls are up and reinforced. I don't know if I will EVER be able to let anyone in again.

I truly hate who I have become. I liked the loving, caring, giving person I was before all this. But I am so afraid of being hurt again....I am so wary of letting down my guard.

Yes, you do have some personal responsibility in your own healing. I can relate to that feeling of darkness. I think in many ways our recovery is much more difficult than the recovery of a truly remorseful addict. We have so much crap we have been dealt that sometimes it is overwhelming to even get the shovel out and start. I am not a model recovering spouse. I struggle greatly with my own crap. I think the main difference for me is that I know and acknowledge that a lot of it isn't even him anymore. When he was acting out, it was easier for me to always point the finger at him and have him be the bad guy. Now I have to look at myself, my FOO issues, my dysfunctional behaviors, my lack of or inappropriate coping mechanisms.

Gently, I think you need to acknowledge where you are at, and what you can do differently, but you cannot also take 100% of the blame on, either. He isn't giving you what you need. Why should you be expected to be a loving, caring, giving spouse when he is not mirroring those behaviors? He has had 3+ years to work on recovery, and he is not yet to a place to be in a real partnership with you, so why would you want to let him in?

I know that sometimes you talk about just continuing on in a platonic relationship with him, but will that ultimately be fulfilling to you, or will you always feel that sense of longing and that internal conflict? I know for myself that it would have been very painful to continue on in a platonic "romantic best friends" context with my H. I would not have been able to begin to leave the darkness.

I don't have any easy answers. I don't know if there are any. Be gentle with yourself. Your triggers are REAL, even if he cannot or will not acknowledge them. You are reacting the way you do because you do not feel safe. This is not a defect of yours.

[This message edited by TooManyYears at 10:36 AM, January 28th (Monday)]


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Kat)))) Love ya, mama. I think we can all identify with what you are feeling. It sucks.

Million, we have similar stories, but I am about 20 months out now. I suggest you read my story here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=421531
It is a stupid long read but I think in your case it will open your eyes. I wish I could tell you not many have our story, but sadly many do. We just don't talk about it.


Puton, I have not put the house in my name. Not sure that's a good idea. The market is super bad, and I am a SAHM. No way I could carry the mortgage on this house, regardless of its worth. And if you knew where I live and the real estate numbers out here, you would question why I would have ever bought a house in the first place. The truth is if we had to sell we would break even and maybe make a small profit, more as time passes if the market stays the same. So it's the standard split the profit on the sale arrangement. Otherwise we have negative net worth so I am more more interested in him absorbing all the debt. Ack, I will address the rest later, I am out of time.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Kat)))) Love ya, mama. I think we can all identify with what you are feeling. It sucks.

Million, we have similar stories, but I am about 20 months out now. I suggest you read my story here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=421531
It is a stupid long read but I think in your case it will open your eyes. I wish I could tell you not many have our story, but sadly many do. We just don't talk about it.


Puton, I have not put the house in my name. Not sure that's a good idea. The market is super bad, and I am a SAHM. No way I could carry the mortgage on this house, regardless of its worth. And if you knew where I live and the real estate numbers out here, you would question why I would have ever bought a house in the first place. The truth is if we had to sell we would break even and maybe make a small profit, more as time passes if the market stays the same. So it's the standard split the profit on the sale arrangement. Otherwise we have negative net worth so I am more more interested in him absorbing all the debt. Ack, I will address the rest later, I am out of time.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bless you, TMY, and thank you for that LIGHT...your kindness lifted me a bit. You are right, he denied the middle circle behaviors at first, but, no doubt, that's what they were.

Our MC, my IC, was clear with him. And he took ownership for both things. My belief is that he still is working on steps 1-3, not completely ready to give up the idea that HE has control over this, not really ready to ask for help. Still white knuckling, in that regard. That's part of the reason I don't let my guard down, nor should I.

I am working on self care. I have been eating compulsively, and feeling nasty afterward. My weight isn't a huge issue, really, but I feel terrible. I need to stop and take care of me. That's my job for right now.

One day at a time. Practice not perfection.

Thanks for listening...


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2931 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, January 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you all for sharing your stories - it really is so helpful.

((((Million))))

((((((sK))))))


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
wantreallove
♀ Member
Member # 37534
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night we had a big discussion on the events of the night before. The baby was fussy and we couldn't really do anything, but that was ok to me because I enjoyed touching him on his shoulders, back, and arms. Just rubbing and massaging and kissing lightly. I also texted him yesterday telling him how sexy he's been looking. In response I got comments of how that was nice but he really needed more. I was devastated. I heard that unless I give him sex it's not enough. And so I told him I was hurt and I named all the things I had been trying to do to show him how much I love him and I felt like it wasn't enough. So then he came home with chocolates, a bear in a mug, and a card that said he was the "dumbest smart guy" and that he loved me. So after going to my son"s hockey practice I initiated and we made love and it was awesome! Then this morning I awoke to him curled up snuggling me. It was wonderful! I felt so loved! We made love again twice. I was feeling like he was starting to understand what I needed. But then later this morning I get on the computer and check the history and see that right after he apologized and I left for the practice he got onto some pictures labeled "busty women" and "famous asses" and "sexy girls in sports bras". Things he should have known to stay away from. Yeah sure it wasn't porn but it sure wasn't something he should have been looking at! Is this just something that I have to accept early in recovery? Is this a normal slip for someone who really has only attended one meeting and one therapy session? Am I upset when I shouldn't be? edited to add: should I confront him on my knowing he was looking at this?

[This message edited by wantreallove at 8:12 AM, January 29th (Tuesday)]


Me,BS 32
SA fWH (masame5) 34
Married 12 yrs 6 kids age 17-1, and expecting #7
D-day 10/9/12 (caught him through fb chat) D-day #2 11/19/12 thru 11/21/12 (found out about all the rest of the A's.)
8 AP, 12-7-12 WH sober date

Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2012
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wantreallove, my experience with early recovery is they have to do 30/60/90 days of abstinence first, to do the necessary chemical changes in the brain to enable any sort of chance at recovery. Any reputable CSAT will likely suggest this. So I am not sure if your SAWH has done this or not, but my guess is he needs to do it again if he is still looking at questionable web sites. If he is doing that in plain sight, you have no idea what he is doing that you don't know about.

You have mentioned before he has struggled with computer use and wants to change. One of my therapy group friend's husband has a severe porn addiction only, to the point he can't be around any computer at all without a filter. So she just uses Net Nanny and only she has the password, so she doesn't have to monitor his computer use at all. That might be an option for you. But I should add her husband is older, retired, and not tech-savvy, so it would be difficult for him to find another source of porn.

As for if you should tell him what you know, well that depends. Have you defined this as one of your boundaries? If not, then yes you need to tell him, but outline what is acceptable and what is not. He can't really follow them if he doesn't know what they are. If you had already listed this in your boundaries, then it is a different, more confrontational discussion and consequences will have to be given. In either scenario, the risk is that he will take his porn/inappropriate internet use underground (via another computer or smartphone), but you have to drawn the line so he knows you have one.

Have you had a chance to talk with his IC? find out what his diagnosis and treatment plan is? Give her your perspective on what is going on? I think you need to if you haven't. It will help you immensely to see what is really happening in his sessions.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wantreallove, my experience with early recovery is they have to do 30/60/90 days of abstinence first, to do the necessary chemical changes in the brain to enable any sort of chance at recovery. Any reputable CSAT will likely suggest this. So I am not sure if your SAWH has done this or not, but my guess is he needs to do it again if he is still looking at questionable web sites. If he is doing that in plain sight, you have no idea what he is doing that you don't know about.

You have mentioned before he has struggled with computer use and wants to change. One of my therapy group friend's husband has a severe porn addiction only, to the point he can't be around any computer at all without a filter. So she just uses Net Nanny and only she has the password, so she doesn't have to monitor his computer use at all. That might be an option for you. But I should add her husband is older, retired, and not tech-savvy, so it would be difficult for him to find another source of porn.

As for if you should tell him what you know, well that depends. Have you defined this as one of your boundaries? If not, then yes you need to tell him, but outline what is acceptable and what is not. He can't really follow them if he doesn't know what they are. If you had already listed this in your boundaries, then it is a different, more confrontational discussion and consequences will have to be given. In either scenario, the risk is that he will take his porn/inappropriate internet use underground (via another computer or smartphone), but you have to drawn the line so he knows you have one.

Have you had a chance to talk with his IC? find out what his diagnosis and treatment plan is? Give her your perspective on what is going on? I think you need to if you haven't. It will help you immensely to see what is really happening in his sessions.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never did respond about my limited experience with EMDR. Basically it is a way of having your brain reprocess how it deals with traumatic memories. You have to light up certain parts of each side of the brain in sequence for it to work. So in my case, I held these vibrating buzzer things in my hands, and they'd go off back and forth while the IC walked me through a sequence of memories. Then there are exercises you can do at home utilizing the same principles to reduce anxiety, like patting your upper arms in succession (google butterfly hugs).

There is something new out there called EFT, which is along the same lines but is used proactively to address stress and trauma instead of after the fact. It's worth a google search as well.

As spouses of SAs we are all horrifically traumatized, so any avenue of trauma therapy is worth pursuing IMHO. In fact, I would say it is more important (and thus worth paying for first if you can't do both) than the SA's treatment. The SA has to be in the right place to gain any benefit from even the best therapy, while the spouse is already in triage and needs emergency help right away whether they realize it or not.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 10:31 AM, January 29th (Tuesday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
wantreallove
♀ Member
Member # 37534
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath, Thanks for the reply. No he has not done any sort of abstinence period. He is really at the very very beginning of this. We seem kinda behind the curve on this whole thing. He only had one session with a regular IC who said (I wasn't there but it's what he said) that he has sexual compulsion issues and mentioned sex addiction. Supposedly she wants to treat him aggressively but he doesn't have another appt until next week and then 2 weeks after that. She mentioned getting him some info on some meetings but didn't do that at that session. Basically they just talked over the initial stuff and she asked a lot of questions. She said she has no problem with him bringing me to his sessions but said the next one should be just him but after that the next one I should come. I am very nervous given that she is not a CSAT and that it seems like this addiction is not being taken very seriously. Maybe I'm just not being patient. I'm not a patient person. But WH says he wants to try this IC because she is much closer and we have already set up these appts.

As far as him doing it in plain sight...maybe he doesn't realize I check the pc history? (And I'm pretty sure he was in our bedroom with the door shut but our little kids were home with him since I was gone.) He's said before (and his last MOW) said that I am an "amazing" detective but really I'm just scared and following up on things. That stupid hypersensitive stuff. I don't know if a filter would help. He's somewhat tech savy but not totally. He did half a computer networking degree so he probably knows a lot of stuff I don't.

As far as boundaries I don't think I have set good boundaries at all. He said he wouldn't look at porn and he knows it upsets me but beyond that the only official boundary is if I find anything about another woman I am gone and R is over. I am reading Deceived now and it is talking about setting boundaries. I am just now realizing that I need to set more boundaries. I feel so far behind on this stuff. I start IC (with a regular C) on next tuesday and haven't been able to go to a S-Anon meeting yet. Wanted to this weekend but the younger kids and I all had pink eye and the baby had a terrible cold. He went to one meeting with SAA but he said he felt like what he had done was so much less then what these guys had done and he didn't feel comfortable. Says he wants to search for a different group. I think there is another one, SA I think, that also meets close to us.

I am also struggling where does codependency end and my self care for my safety begin in something like this. There is so much to read and think about and do when you are new to this situation that I feel so overwhelmed. I already have so much to do with the kids, and their activities, and their schoolwork, and the house, and volunteering at church, and just everything. I know this is important and needs to be taken serious. I am reading in every spare moment and trying to treat it as serious but feel like I am the only one who thinks it's a big as I feel it is.

Thanks for listening.


Me,BS 32
SA fWH (masame5) 34
Married 12 yrs 6 kids age 17-1, and expecting #7
D-day 10/9/12 (caught him through fb chat) D-day #2 11/19/12 thru 11/21/12 (found out about all the rest of the A's.)
8 AP, 12-7-12 WH sober date

Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2012
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I have had a few ask how I am doing. I have been trying to unplug so I have more time for me, as well as my family, so I haven't had time to really post for a while.

Basically in December I took a large dose of Fuckitol and was phoning it in. SAWH realizing very quickly I was checking out of the M, and I guess that was a sort of bottom for him. Unfortunately, his CSAT just had a baby so he was unavailable for a month. He valiantly tried to be Superdad and help me any way that was apparent to him, as I was not really volunteering any info to help. As a family, we had a really good holiday. As a couple, we were in limbo.

He did his potential offender evaluation, and I happened to share (out of pure frustration) that once again, I had been somewhat blindsided by being contacted by some expert that was supposed to help him. His first CSAT, the poly guy, and now this specialty CSAT all called me and drilled me for info, when I was expecting to be the one with all the questions. That it was triggery and frustrating not to be prepared for it when it happened AGAIN. In that moment, I think he truly realized how the impact of what he has done to me and our family will be lifelong. He gained a new respect for my endurance of pain.

So he asked, what can I do? I don't know what to do, his regular IC was not there to guide him. I remembered in one of my recent group sessions another spouse had just discovered the Five Love Languages and shared how it helped them. I read this book not long after DDay, but I was in too much shock for any of it to take and honestly I was not ready to speak to him in ANY love language, LOL. So I had bought it and read it again, and had got the kids' version to assist in my parenting. Told him he should read it, and told him what my love languages are.

It took him a week before he really read the book in earnest. I had figured it was 50/50 if he'd even do it, and since I had checked out I didn't care. But once he did, the changes in him were amazing. He clearly read Acts of Service first, because suddenly not only was he trying to do things for me all the time, he was actually doing things that were helpful instead of what he thought was helpful. He was always asking should I do this or this first, and how to you want me to do it? What else is important for me to do today?

Then later it became apparent when he read the Words of Affirmation part. Not long after DDay, I had pinched the six statements a WS should say to their spouse when they are feeling really hopeless from a Serj post here and told him he needed to do them at least weekly. He would try, forget half of them, and then it would dwindle to nothing. Then he'd remember or I'd tell him if he asked, and the same thing would happen. Now he's doing them every couple of days, all of them. And others. When I have a trigger, he drops what he's doing and tries to give me words of affirmation to help.

He totally recognizes what he did, what he became, all his past wrongs in the path since discovery, how it continues and will always impact me and the kids no matter how it plays out. He sees more clearly where he is and where he needs to go. He sees how a lot of his thought processes are flawed at best and just plain wrong at worst, and is open to being told when that presents itself. He understands how far he needs to go to heal himself, and how far I need to go to heal myself, and how far in the future we would need to go as a couple to heal the M. Very very daunting stuff, and it's all on the table now.

It has really changed my whole outlook of the prospect of recovery for both of us. I have no idea if it is enough for us to stay together in the long term, but it certainly makes this purgatory we were in a whole lot more pleasant and hopeful.

I have changed quite a bit. I am eating a whole lot better. I actually went to a cardiologist for irregular heartbeat, when I normally have to be forced to take Tylenol, LOL. He said I had various fairly bad vitamin and mineral deficiencies causing it and put me on supplements that have made a huge difference in my health and my attitude. I go to IC and a chiro twice a month and get a massage once a month, foregoing other expenses because I feel it is necessary to my healing. I stopped going to 12 step for a while, because I need the time for myself and it's the only time I have. I use it to paint, to write, to do creative things to restore my spirit. I feel myself changing inside for the better.

So I am still waiting for the post nup to get the final blessing before we sign. I am still waiting for his CSAT to greenlight him to go to group recovery (the one that does the recovery start kit). Both should be resolved in a few weeks. I still need to figure out what I need to know about any other potential mental illnesses he may have and how that should be done. But right now, I am ok. We are ok.

And right now I am just trying to live in the moment. That's not something that is easy for me. It is something I need to learn to do.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I have had a few ask how I am doing. I have been trying to unplug so I have more time for me, as well as my family, so I haven't had time to really post for a while.

Basically in December I took a large dose of Fuckitol and was phoning it in. SAWH realizing very quickly I was checking out of the M, and I guess that was a sort of bottom for him. Unfortunately, his CSAT just had a baby so he was unavailable for a month. He valiantly tried to be Superdad and help me any way that was apparent to him, as I was not really volunteering any info to help. As a family, we had a really good holiday. As a couple, we were in limbo.

He did his potential offender evaluation, and I happened to share (out of pure frustration) that once again, I had been somewhat blindsided by being contacted by some expert that was supposed to help him. His first CSAT, the poly guy, and now this specialty CSAT all called me and drilled me for info, when I was expecting to be the one with all the questions. That it was triggery and frustrating not to be prepared for it when it happened AGAIN. In that moment, I think he truly realized how the impact of what he has done to me and our family will be lifelong. He gained a new respect for my endurance of pain.

So he asked, what can I do? I don't know what to do, his regular IC was not there to guide him. I remembered in one of my recent group sessions another spouse had just discovered the Five Love Languages and shared how it helped them. I read this book not long after DDay, but I was in too much shock for any of it to take and honestly I was not ready to speak to him in ANY love language, LOL. So I had bought it and read it again, and had got the kids' version to assist in my parenting. Told him he should read it, and told him what my love languages are.

It took him a week before he really read the book in earnest. I had figured it was 50/50 if he'd even do it, and since I had checked out I didn't care. But once he did, the changes in him were amazing. He clearly read Acts of Service first, because suddenly not only was he trying to do things for me all the time, he was actually doing things that were helpful instead of what he thought was helpful. He was always asking should I do this or this first, and how to you want me to do it? What else is important for me to do today?

Then later it became apparent when he read the Words of Affirmation part. Not long after DDay, I had pinched the six statements a WS should say to their spouse when they are feeling really hopeless from a Serj post here and told him he needed to do them at least weekly. He would try, forget half of them, and then it would dwindle to nothing. Then he'd remember or I'd tell him if he asked, and the same thing would happen. Now he's doing them every couple of days, all of them. And others. When I have a trigger, he drops what he's doing and tries to give me words of affirmation to help.

He totally recognizes what he did, what he became, all his past wrongs in the path since discovery, how it continues and will always impact me and the kids no matter how it plays out. He sees more clearly where he is and where he needs to go. He sees how a lot of his thought processes are flawed at best and just plain wrong at worst, and is open to being told when that presents itself. He understands how far he needs to go to heal himself, and how far I need to go to heal myself, and how far in the future we would need to go as a couple to heal the M. Very very daunting stuff, and it's all on the table now.

It has really changed my whole outlook of the prospect of recovery for both of us. I have no idea if it is enough for us to stay together in the long term, but it certainly makes this purgatory we were in a whole lot more pleasant and hopeful.

I have changed quite a bit. I am eating a whole lot better. I actually went to a cardiologist for irregular heartbeat, when I normally have to be forced to take Tylenol, LOL. He said I had various fairly bad vitamin and mineral deficiencies causing it and put me on supplements that have made a huge difference in my health and my attitude. I go to IC and a chiro twice a month and get a massage once a month, foregoing other expenses because I feel it is necessary to my healing. I stopped going to 12 step for a while, because I need the time for myself and it's the only time I have. I use it to paint, to write, to do creative things to restore my spirit. I feel myself changing inside for the better.

So I am still waiting for the post nup to get the final blessing before we sign. I am still waiting for his CSAT to greenlight him to go to group recovery (the one that does the recovery start kit). Both should be resolved in a few weeks. I still need to figure out what I need to know about any other potential mental illnesses he may have and how that should be done. But right now, I am ok. We are ok.

And right now I am just trying to live in the moment. That's not something that is easy for me. It is something I need to learn to do.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wanted to throw out something I don't know that I have ever said. In my dealings in workshops, group therapy, and 12 step meetings I have seen all sorts of people and couples pursuing different routes of healing from SA or being the spouse of an SA. I have seen people that don't do therapy at all, and rely solely on 12 step and have made significant progress. I have seen people that did Recovery Nation or similar instead of a CSAT that have made progress. I have seen people that have only done group therapy and no 12 step at all, and make progress. I have seen people that did IC only with CSAT and nothing else for a long time, and made significant progress before trying group and 12 step. So it is possible to progress with any number of theraputic avenues as an SA or a spouse of an SA and make progress in recovery.

What I DO know is this. The people that do multiple avenues recovery more quickly and make more progress in general. The people that do either IC or group with a CSAT as well as 12 step the first year go so much farther than the ones that just do one or the other.

What I also know is that a couple cannot just have one of them pursue a theraputic avenue and not the other and make any significant progress quickly. Too many spouses think they can't afford therapy for both and they should let the addict have it because they are the ones that need it. So wrong, I've already stated it won't always help the addict if they are not ready but it always helps the spouse with trauma already incurred. And many spouses go to help themselves and stay with addicts that don't have any intention of theraputic efforts at all, and that doesn't help either. If you are going to have any chance of making it as a couple, you BOTH have to be doing it in some form.

And if you have to do it alone, you need an exit plan if you haven't split already. There are many I've met that heal just fine on their own, but again multiple avenues of treatment increases the speed significantly, especially in that first year.

Off my soap box. You don't have to agree with me. I am just saying what I am seeing. YMMV.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wantreallove,

I see a lot of red flags in what you have posted. Operating under the assumption that your WH is indeed a SA (he needs to be diagnosed by a CSAT), he is not anywhere near engaging in recovery.

Red flag number one...

He only had one session with a regular IC who said (I wasn't there but it's what he said) that he has sexual compulsion issues and mentioned sex addiction. Supposedly she wants to treat him aggressively but he doesn't have another appt until next week and then 2 weeks after that. She mentioned getting him some info on some meetings but didn't do that at that session. Basically they just talked over the initial stuff and she asked a lot of questions. She said she has no problem with him bringing me to his sessions but said the next one should be just him but after that the next one I should come. I am very nervous given that she is not a CSAT and that it seems like this addiction is not being taken very seriously. Maybe I'm just not being patient. I'm not a patient person. But WH says he wants to try this IC because she is much closer and we have already set up these appts.

A regular IC is not going to be useful in dealing with a SA. That would be like me taking my Jaguar to the mechanic down the road. The mechanic down the road may do a fine job with domestic cars, but will not be able to diagnose and treat my Jag. BTDT metaphorically (my H did see several regular IC's through the years when he was still trying to "manage" his addiction). Regular IC's are not attuned to the manipulative nature of SA's and do not fully understand the treatment program that is most successful. A CSAT has actual training and specializes in SA.

Red flag number two...

In response I got comments of how that was nice but he really needed more. I was devastated. I heard that unless I give him sex it's not enough. And so I told him I was hurt and I named all the things I had been trying to do to show him how much I love him and I felt like it wasn't enough. So then he came home with chocolates, a bear in a mug, and a card that said he was the "dumbest smart guy" and that he loved me. So after going to my son"s hockey practice I initiated and we made love and it was awesome! Then this morning I awoke to him curled up snuggling me. It was wonderful! I felt so loved!

He pressured you to have sex??? Really???? That does NOT sound like remorse at all. That is intimacy avoidance and manipulation at its finest. Feeling "loved" because he bought you a bear and had sex with you. I am sorry to say that when we confuse sex with love, it is a sign of codependency with the SA, the idea that "he loves me if he will have sex with me". Easy to fall into that trap when many of us have been sex starved. Even if he is not a SA at this point, he should NOT be making those sort of demands of you at this point in your relationship!

Red flag number three....

But then later this morning I get on the computer and check the history and see that right after he apologized and I left for the practice he got onto some pictures labeled "busty women" and "famous asses" and "sexy girls in sports bras". Things he should have known to stay away from. Yeah sure it wasn't porn but it sure wasn't something he should have been looking at! Is this just something that I have to accept early in recovery?

So, you have all this wonderful sex, but no intimacy (because SA's are NOT capable of intimacy until they are well on their way in recovery) and it isn't enough for him. It will never be until he is really in recovery. And no, he is not even close right now. Yes, looking at sexy pictures is a way of acting out. It is a way the SA minimizes and bargains with the addiction in an attempt to "manage" things. They can rationalize that it isn't porn, so it isn't really that bad. But it will lead down the slippery slope and soon enough he will be doing all of it again, if he didn't already masturbate to those images.

Red flag number four...

He went to one meeting with SAA but he said he felt like what he had done was so much less then what these guys had done and he didn't feel comfortable. Says he wants to search for a different group.

He is completely minimizing the idea of SA and bargaining. Of course he can always find an addict who is much worse off, who has gotten in legal trouble or lost a job, etc., but at their core they are all addicts. If he feels that he is not an addict or that he would never do any of those things, he is wrong (unless of course the CSAT evaluates him and he is not a SA at all). I could NEVER have predicted the acting out that my husband has done even 10 years ago! My H may have at one time said, "I am not that bad", but at his core he was!

I am reading in every spare moment and trying to treat it as serious but feel like I am the only one who thinks it's a big as I feel it is.

This should set off your internal red flags. If HE does not see this as a big deal, he has not reached rock bottom. Most SA's never do. Rock bottom for a lot of SA's involves job loss, legal difficulties, loss of family, etc. They don't usually quit until they are so broken, and even then, some don't. If your WH thinks he can bargain, rationalize, or minimize this away, then he is either not a SA (which would need to be determined by a CSAT) or he is nowhere near entering recovery. I would insist on a CSAT evaluation.

Right now you have a choice. You can escape into your family duties and numb yourself however you see fit (I know I personally numbed myself for years with workaholism and alcohol) or you can get healthy for you and your children. It is easier said than done. I am still on that journey myself, 3+ years out. Do try to get out to S-Anon. Make it a priority to get yourself help IRL. At this point, if he isn't going to take this seriously, you still need to for YOU. And if he gets on board, that is great too. However, right now YOU have to come first.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hath,

What I DO know is this. The people that do multiple avenues recovery more quickly and make more progress in general. The people that do either IC or group with a CSAT as well as 12 step the first year go so much farther than the ones that just do one or the other.

Very true. My H refers to this as having many tools in his toolbox. I think other than the fact that he hit a hard rock bottom, the fact that he has a super CSAT, has made connections in both his CSAT group and 12 step group, and has utilized Recovery Nation, podcasts, and workbooks, has all made for a more comprehensive approach to recovery. I think that when recovery permeates all areas of the addicts life, it does make a difference. Addicts are masters at compartmentalizing, so when they limit recovery to an hour a week, it just isn't going to work.

I also agree with the importance of recovery as a spouse. I think it is a codependent approach to think that the SA's recovery is more important. If anything, the spouse's recovery is more important IMHO. I think we need it far more, as most of us are caregivers to children, and we need to be healthy for them, too, no matter what the SA chooses.


SK,

I am working on self care. I have been eating compulsively, and feeling nasty afterward. My weight isn't a huge issue, really, but I feel terrible. I need to stop and take care of me. That's my job for right now.

One day at a time. Practice not perfection.

I am there with you. I have to take care of me. I have a hard time with it still. I am still practicing! I don't know if self-care will ever come naturally to me, but I will keep trying.

Everyone, be good to yourself today!!! YOU ARE WORTH IT!


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
putonahappyface
♀ Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wantreal,

I would have to agree with TMY. I also read your post to read that he looked at the images on the computer while you were out, & before you had sex. This probably concerns me even more - it would make me wonder if he didn't have to look at those images in order to perform with you (he probably knew you all were headed there, right?). This is very SA & porn addicted behavior. His brain is wired to respond to that, so he needed the "fix" first.

I highly recommend the abstinence period. My SAWH can feel the difference in his body & brain. I am anxious to know if his body will respond to "just me," but we're not there yet. I'll have to report back at some point with a tmi warning.

Again, he needs a CSAT & a 12 step group. I 2nd the rec for S-anon for you. I went to my first mtg Mon night & it was great. A little unsettling, but great to have fellowship with kindred spirits.

Hath - great advice as always. Thanks!

[This message edited by putonahappyface at 10:06 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


BS (me) - 49; SAWH- 50 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 20 &16
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: found lots of porn on phone: SA discovery


Posts: 708 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
wantreallove
♀ Member
Member # 37534
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Happyface and toomanyyears, it is nice to know that I am not going crazy. And yes he did view the pictures before the sex. He said he didn't know we were going to have sex (he thought that the gifts would simply earn him some kissing at best since he said he could tell I was really upset) and he said he only viewed one link (didn't admit to the other 2 and I didn't let him know I knew about them.) When he admitted to viewing it he said he just clicked it, then after viewing a few pics realized he shouldn't and is saying that he didn't MB.

As far as responding to me he seems like he can. With the last MOW he had ...performance issues that he has never had with me. There have been a few times where we are laying in bed not even looking like we would have sex and he is able to respond to me...or at least I hope it's me.

We just had another hard situation. He feels like I run around telling people and that it will just keep following him. That he will beat this if it just quits coming up. Because of you all and the reading I've been doing I can see this is classic white knuckling. He is mad that when I first found out he was cheating I called my brother and sister because I didn't want to be alone and I truly thought he was leaving me. Then I called my dad and stepmom for support since I figured I wouldn't have anywhere to live and the kids and I would end up with them. Lastly I called his stepdad because his stepdad is overbearing and a very forceful guy and I figured that since I wasn't strong enough to give my WH a tongue lashing that his stepdad would. I never called his dad or his friends or anything like that. Oh and I called 3 of my best friends for support. Because of the number of people who know the circle has gotten bigger but I have worked to contain the fact of the multiple A's to only 2 of my IRL friends so that I had some IRL support. I didn't want anyone to know the bigger details so I worked to protect him. I told everyone how he was working so hard to make our relationship work again and that we were doing okay. He has choosen to tell his mother the whole truth about the number of the A. He's told 2 coworkers and his stepbrother about his last A and supposedly one of them about how many A. I guess I don't know what is okay and what isn't in this situation. I don't want to go around telling people.

The situation he got mad about is that I had some questions that I asked my doctor at an appt I had for pink eye on Sunday but since it was my primary I asked him my questions and we talked about if I might need meds or not. We decided not and he was great. I love my doctor. Problem is, I forgot this is also my WH's doctor. And now he's mad because his business is out there for his doctor to know. I said maybe he wouldn't connect the two of us together but he said he knows because he's asked my WH about me and the kids. I feel bad that he was embarrassed but I also feel a new feeling. I am starting to feel like this was important for me and my health. It's my doctor too and discussing what is happening in my life with my doctor should be ok. He got mad when I went to my midwife back in October for STD testing because he thought I should have just simply asked for testing without allowing them to know who had cheated or why I needed the tests. At the time I felt awful that I had "betrayed" him like that. Now I feel like it's not my fault and I did nothing wrong. I DIDN"T CHEAT so I didn't do anything to need an STD test or even a talk about depression meds until HE cheated. Maybe this is me being too uncaring with his feelings...or maybe I am starting to release some of this codependent thinking? It's hard though because we've been doing pretty good the past couple of days. He even said for me to ask away when I said I had more questions but that he could wait to answer them since we were both in good moods.

You all have been so wonderful at helping me to start to see all of this in a healthy way. Thanks! I finally got an address/time for S-anon. The bad thing is it's on Sundays and we are supposed to do something for the super bowl this sunday instead of any meetings. One of those stay home and hangout with the kids as a family thing. So I might now go until next sunday.

[This message edited by wantreallove at 3:37 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


Me,BS 32
SA fWH (masame5) 34
Married 12 yrs 6 kids age 17-1, and expecting #7
D-day 10/9/12 (caught him through fb chat) D-day #2 11/19/12 thru 11/21/12 (found out about all the rest of the A's.)
8 AP, 12-7-12 WH sober date

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