[This message edited by wantreallove at 3:26 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]
So here's my question/dilema.
I firmly believe that my WH will lie and minimize the things that he's done. I have not been invited to participate in his eval, which my understanding was that generally the BS was involved. I've been to a few S-Anon meetings and the women in those meetings have been involved in the eval at this practice. (This is the only practice in the area that has CSATs) I am seeing an IC at that practice as well and am working on my own raging codependency issues. And yes, I realize that are raging.
So I struggle with trying to pull back on the codependecy behaviors, maintain boundaries, not try to control and mind my own business about his eval and also wanting to write a letter with the real history that I know about and provide it to his IC because I know he will lie/minimize.
So can someone help guide me as to what to do in this situation. I'm really at a loss. I know that I can't control his recovery but I am having such a hard time not wanting to be involved in at least the evaluation to get a honest picture.
My STBX did not come clean to his IC or his SA group. HE minimized, he omitted, he lied. And now that I have a perspective of time, I can see that's okay. He told his truth, even though that truth was an outright lie. HE painted a picture of himself (and me!) which was utterly false. It's okay. This showed who he was. It showed what he was capable of of. It showed what he was NOT capable of. Because I'd detached, because I was 1,000% committed to MYSELF and MY RECOVERY, it just didn't matter what he said. I was going to get better.
I was never in charge of him. I'm only ever in charge of myself.
I contacted his IC two times. One was when I was afraid he was going to kill himself. The other was when I found out that one of the OW was a convicted heroin dealer and he did not seem to understand why that was a big deal.
It is actually very helpful for a counselor to let the patient reveal their problems. The way the problems are revealed is diagnostic in & of itself. The timing, the words used, it's all revealing. You need to not interfere, Issa. You know how with little kids you have to stand back & let them learn to (roll over, sit up, scoot, walk, feed themselves, wipe their bottom, everything else) on their own? Same thing is in play here with your husband.
Stand back. You cannot help him.
want - I think you're doing terrific! You are not wrong with telling your doc why you needed STD testing. This is your SAWH's shame, NOT yours. You have no responsibility to protect him from the choices that he made and you have every responsibility to take care of yourself. I am proud of you and the work you are doing. Keep it up - you are doing great! I like how you felt bad, but then had the awareness to realize that you had no reason to feel bad. Again, just wanted to say awesome job!
BUT... IMHO, sometimes it is good to meet with his IC to make sure SAWH is telling you what the IC really is saying. Like, say your boundary is that he attend IC weekly, 12 step 2x a week for you to consider R and stay in the house, that you are not interested in pursuing R without at least that level of commitment to recovery from him. He can do what he wants, but knows if he doesn't you will reconsider your relationship and explore other options. And he comes back and says, oh no, IC says I only need to come 2x a month and 12 step is not necessary, or he says he's not SA, or whatever. THEN (and again, only IMHO) I think it's ok to meet with his IC or talk to him on the phone to verify what he has said, since you have the release to talk to him about it. This is not to talk about what SAWH does or does not do, or tell the therapist what you want him to do, etc but to verify that the therapist said X like SAWH said he did. Because, again, IMHO, if he is lying to you about his treatment (deliberately or because his warped brain cannot process the truth), especially to get around your boundaries, I feel you are entitled to know so you can make decisions for yourself about your own path and healing.
Want, I agree you not not have to carry his shame. Too damn bad you had to tell others as a part of healing and protecting yourself, that is a consequence of HIS actions, not yours. If he doesn't want people to know what he's doing, then don't do it, fucktard. There is no "privacy" regarding actions of infidelity in a relationship. He has got his head in the sand if he thinks there won't be more consequences to face later, regardless of who you tell or not tell. There will always be more ripples in the pond, and YOU did not make them. HE did.
[This message edited by heartbrokennlost at 11:01 AM, February 22nd (Friday)]
You hold your head high. You didn't create the need to be there; you have nothing to be ashamed of! Hugs & prayers that the results are all okay.
ETA: How's everyone else doing?
[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 6:06 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]
It is always a bit jolting and triggery to step into CSAT's office because that is where SAH first read his disclosure letter/timeline. I am hoping that the trigger will fade the more I go and hear good things.
SAH is scheduled to get another poly in August. CSAT suggested maybe setting the poly at one year out, but after 20 years of SAH's crap, I am calling the shots and doing what I think I need in order to feel safe. CSAT and SAH were more than okay with my request. SAH is still attending his 2 minimum SAA meetings per week, getting EMDR w/childhood trauma IC, going to men's Bible study and couples study w/me. He is one busy SAH, and I see many positive changes in his attitude, mood, and overall presence in the M.
Our CSAT gave us a copy of his latest book: Stop Sex Addiction by Milton Magness. Magness added lots of partner info/studies that spouses and partners gave him, and I found this book much more partner-friendly than the last one. I even helped participate in his partner research via surveys. Both SAH and I are so glad we have him as our CSAT.
SAH and I have a one-day-at-a-time battle, lots of IC and MC ahead. But so far, so good.
Peace and hugs to all.
Welcome to a very supportive place, where we all wish none of us were. I read your post in Just Found Out and was going to refer you to this thread. At the beginning of the thread there are references to books that some of us have found helpful. I like, in particular, the newer version of "Mending a Shattered Heart" (Stephanie Carnes) and "Your Sexually Addicted Spouse" by Barbara Steffens.
I didn't start to feel better until about 6 to 8 months out, so hang on, things will eventually get better for you. It must be so hard to have an infant and try to deal with this.
Have you found a CSAT for yourself? I found this to be very important. Also, 12 step groups of people who've found themselves in the same situation can be very helpful. I'll never forget the first night I went to S-Anon - I was finally in the presence of people who knew how horrible I was feeling. There's also an online Yahoo group for COSA members, which is great for extra meetings online and via telephone. The thing with the 12-step groups that I found was that they deal with co-addiction, when what I needed first was to deal with the trauma.
Another book I'm trying is called, "Intimate Treason" by Claudia Black. I found a lot of help in the partners portion of "Recovery Nation" online as well.
Hugs to you and your family.
by - welcome to the best group you never wanted to join. So sorry you are here, but you will find some very wise women with very good advice. Post as often as you want; you will find much support and wisdom here.
I wanted to comment on a few things:
-you do not have to feel guilty for leaving him because he has a "medical condition" if he is not respecting your feelings and doing the things you need him to do to build trust and make you feel safe, just as you wouldn't have to feel guilty for leaving him if he had diabetes and was beating you. Abuse is abuse and SA is abusive.
-Is he seeing a CSAT? He needs to see a CSAT rather than a regular IC, because a lying, manipulative SA will snow a regular IC.
-Just because your family supports him and wants you to stick it out does not mean that that is what you have to do. Do what you want to do regardless of what your family thinks - you are the one M to him and you have to live with his actions and deceit, they don't. They don't get to say what you do with your life, you do.
Hugs to you, keep posting.
I want to add my voice to those who tell you not to feel guilty if you cannot stay. SA is insidious. It causes trauma to the partners that is beyond the comprehension of most people.
Support groups for you will help you understand that you are not in anyway responsible for his addiction. And that includes his recovery. You must take care of you and of your children.
If you decide to try to stay, you absolutely need the support from others. We here, can help, but you need support from others in real life.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 9:53 AM, February 9th (Saturday)]
I let church people tell me I had to "forgive" and to live with her just like nothing ever happened.
I was utterly racked with guilt because I had a very faulty understanding of forgiveness, and it kept me bound to someone who hurt me over and over and over again for years.
And that includes his recovery.
Yes. Correct. I let church people convince me of the utter lie that God somehow "needs" me to do HIS work and that He would "use" me to "fix" my wife.
I really like that analogy about someone having diabetes and beating you.
That is precisely, precisely what this is all about. People who have "medical" conditions still CHOOSE to do what they do. No woman gets off on murder charges because she has PMS and a pistol.
And adultery? God put this in the same list with theft, murder, and perjury. Funny, I don't remember reading any of His words that talks about "SA". I think His basic words for "SA" are "HS".
There is also good reason in not wanting to be married to someone who has such a depraved indifference to your emotional welfare.
[This message edited by tfkeel at 7:05 AM, February 9th (Saturday)]
I have been hit with another minor setback. So SAWH has been under the impression since December he would be starting the Recovery Start Kit group in January. Then after he failed the poly, his CSAT referred him to a CSAT who specializes in predator behavior to ensure the kids were not at risk. The results of that would determine if he would go to regular group or if he needed to go to a special predator group instead. He passed that evaluation, much to my relief. Because of scheduling conflicts on the CSAT's part, SAWH met with his CSAT yesterday for the first time since December.
I was expecting him to come home and say he was starting regular recovery group today. Instead he said the CSAT wants to work with him further on his IC , that he's not ready to start group yet until he can pass a poly. I see the reasoning in that, but I have issues.
1)Is SAWH being truthful, or has yet again misinterpreted what CSAT has told him?
2)Why is it different now? Was there something in the written reports from the poly or the special eval that changed his mind? Or was the higher level CSATs of the practice advising him to do something else?
I am disappointed and frustrated. Defeated. And I know I can't do anything about it, but it bothers me tremendously. What ELSE is there that I should know? Ugh.
And sometimes we get wrapped up in a kind of co-addiction, causing us to be powerless to change or leave the relationship, at least temporarily, whether that's a result of guilt, or the machinations of the addict or our own FOO issues. We need to get healthy ourselves.
Not easy to do, after years of abuse at the hands of a charming, clever and manipulative SA.
Edited to add, that still doesnt mean they arent fully responsible for their actions, all of them. Addiction isnt an excuse.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 12:18 PM, February 9th (Saturday)]
Cupcakegirl, I added the book to my wishlist but it says it doesn't come out for a few months...is it brand new/not yet released?
((hath)) I don't know what else to say but know you are heard and lots of hugs!
Now for my update. We went on a night getaway that was my WH's idea and it was mostly fun. I had a major trigger when I started packing my stuff since I flashed back to when we went away in September and I could feel something was wrong but didn't know what. But WH handled it well. I had a few moments that were hard on the trip but was happy that we were able to go and spend some time together. He has scheduled more appts with his IC which I was pleasantly surprised by but I am getting frustrated by his lack of moving forward on a 12 step group. I am going to my first S-anon meeting tomorrow evening and I thought he would send the email to get the location for SA but he hasn't yet. I know it's codependent to agonize over this but I am. I told him last night that I was going to go to my meeting and if he wanted me to arrange a sitter for the kids so he could go to his meeting then he needed to tell me, otherwise I was going to assume he would be home to watch the kids. He simply said Ok. He shared a lot from his C and showed me some paperwork he received about incorrect thinking and he said he thought it would be good for me to go to the next meeting so I can hear the C talk about what the addiction is like. (She said I could go and my IC said it would be good for me to go). WH and I have also been talking about the difference between white knuckling and working recovery. How do you know what this looks like? I just want to feel safe again, but I know that I am M to a SA so safe may be a relative term.