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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-10
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, May 12th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your stories are wonderful to hear! I am still on the fence internall, even though I have been living on my own for 18 months and the final stages of the D are coming.

He took me and the kids out to the family center yesterday and then to dinner. He paid! It was my weekend with them. He didn't necessarily say it was for Mothers day, butearly las week he also took me and the kids to dinner and he paid again!

I don't know if he's manipulating me or what. The therapist said family days would be good for the kids, but nothing was said about him paying. When we went out, it was like old times.

I just don't know.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, May 12th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

torn,

I am going to ask you a question, and I am not trying to be snarky. Do you truly believe that your WH is a SA? I know he has not been diagnosed as such. If so, why do you believe that paying for dinner is an act worthy of reconciliation? If your WH is a SA, that is nowhere near close to recovery. Recovery is a CSAT, 12 step meetings, and working on his issues. Seeing an IC and buying dinner are not recovery.

I don't know if he's manipulating me or what. The therapist said family days would be good for the kids, but nothing was said about him paying. When we went out, it was like old times.

If you really believe that your WH is a SA, then this therapist is not doing you any favors. Yes, you are being manipulated. That is what SA's do. If your WH is serious about reconciling, ask him to see a CSAT to be evaluated for SA. If he is really interested in personal change and recovery (and is indeed a SA), he will accept this as a term of reconciliation. Reconciliation with a SA is not about buying dinners. It is about change and growth and it is hard work. The surface things are not important. At this point, I could care less if my H ever bought me flowers ever again, but I am very happy with the man that he has become, a man who deals with hard situations and reality by talking and action rather than acting out.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TMY, thank you for the candid feedback!

I do believe that he struggles with Sex/porn addiction. He says he is working on 2 things with his therapist. I do see him avoiding things like email and text as those were the seeds of his porn. The IC he sees is an addiction specialist and was referred to him over a year ago by the doctor who gave me the book deceived to read.

I mention his actions recently because he has changed his way of treating me. Not just paying, but asking if I need help with stuff,etc.

Even my family has said that he has done some things that he would never do before.

I do believe he working a recovery program with his IC, but is not letting me in on the details.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question. As a result of SAWH likely being Aspergers (not yet diagnosed) and having some struggles with his current recovery, his CSAT said he might benefit from attending SAA meetings as opposed to the SA meetings he attends now. Apparently because they follow the three circles of behavior model like the Recovery Start Kit does and whatever. I am confused, because when he started therapy, *my* CSAT said he should just do SA, because he needed a strict definition of sobriety and the structure because of his nature to pick apart and avoid/get around rules and terminology. I haven't had a chance to discuss it with my CSAT, and I as a general rule stay out of SAWH's therapy unless it impacts me directly. What are your thoughts on this? Should I have concerns?


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Hath.

I would say, is that going to derail him, what he's doing in SA?

As you guys have told me before, not all therapists are good and they are just people too.

What is the benefit for him to go to SAA? What will be different for him? If you knew that then you could better understand if its going to impact you.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
AimfortheHeart
♀ New Member
Member # 37195
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath, I know only that SAA and the three circle model are helpful to my SAWH. I think it is because, working with his CSAT, he defined what was in the three circles for himself, and has actually put more into the inner circle over time. So he has created his own limits. Which, not coincidentally, are the boundaries I have set - that's fine, I'm glad he owns them too.

We only have SAA around here, so I can't offer a comparison.


Me - BS 63
Him - SAWH 61
D-day #1 8/22/12
D-day #2 11/3/13
D-day #3 12/15/13

Posts: 25 | Registered: Oct 2012
AimfortheHeart
♀ New Member
Member # 37195
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question - TMI warning -

What do you think it means for a SAWH to not have an orgasm, or ejaculate, any of the times he had sex during a year-long A?
He told me that as though it would make me feel better or something, that he thought it meant it "was just physical". He said he got an erection (with the help of Viagra) but that's it. I just think it is very odd.

I should add that sex between us had dwindled to nothing before DDay and our decision to try R. In the past, before we stopped having sex, it was always pretty quick but satisfying and fun for both of us. Now it's super quick, only fun for him, and I'm trying to hang in there and see if it will get better... Guess his little friends on the internet and the OW didn't teach him much.

Actually the quick part is not so much the problem - I figure that might get better as he proceeds with recovery. The part that bothers me is I'm getting a creepy vibe from it, like it's not me there with him. He doesn't even listen when I say something that I want. He's sort of robotic about it.

Otherwise he's being the model SAWH in recovery at 8 months: remorseful, IC w/ CSAT, MC, attends SAA 2-3x week, transparent, gives me cards and flowers.

I don't know what to think. (which I guess has been my normal state since d-day...)


Me - BS 63
Him - SAWH 61
D-day #1 8/22/12
D-day #2 11/3/13
D-day #3 12/15/13

Posts: 25 | Registered: Oct 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope everyone had a wonderful Mother's Day! I had all of my children home, and my SAWH came back from psychiatric treatment, so it was a wonderful day!

Hath - My SAWH goes to SAA. That is what all of our CSATs have preferred. I don't know anything about SA, just that SLAA is considered too lax by our CSATs.

Torn - If he isn't talking about recovery, he isn't in recovery. Recovery is not a secret and has to be shared with the spouse, if there is any hope of reconciliation. That he is changing the way he treats you is a good first step but not enough to take him back in the house.

Aim - Personally, I had to stop having sex with my SAWH, until he could be present. My SAWH has a lot of shame because of childhood abuse and anxiety over sex. He would be up in his head and that is no way to have good sex. For my own health, I refuse to have that kind of sex. It is intimate, connected, sex or no sex. As for the other story about an A with no ejaculation, I doubt it. It is possible but not very probable.

Well, things have been blowing and going here at home. My SAWH went away to a treatment place, not just for SA but for all of his issues. He had some really core self-loathing that was triggered with my pregnancy. (kind of complicated but I started off with 3 and ended up with 2, babies) I had repeatedly said that this was when his behavior just went crazy and he has always denied it. They were able to get down to what was going on with him, he was honest and owned all of the despicable things he had done. I have been carrying a lot of anger because of the abusiveness that went on when he was addicted to drugs. The SA stuff, he had been owning but the drug stuff he had still been skirting around.

So, I am in a wait and see mode. To see if he builds on the good work he did there. This place was very good at making him see that he lives in the Victim and abuses from that stance. For my part, I am so sensitive to him acting like the Victim that it disgusts me when he does this and I can't stand to be near him. Thankfully, that is something he has come a very far way in dealing with. Just hope that all of the good work just keeps going. We will go there together in a few months. I know many couples that have been and say great things about it.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, lots going on since I last checked in here.

Torn,
as TMY said,

The surface things are not important.
When I entered 180, MrWNW had gotten estimates for the house, grants for the repairs, was in IC, hadn't cheated in 9mos, sold two of the vehicles, was selling the houses in a year, getting us a fresh start place then, planning a cruise, making dinner, doing yard work, etc. Surface shit. Internally he was the same. Thus, it was 180 time.

Aim,

The part that bothers me is I'm getting a creepy vibe from it, like it's not me there with him. He doesn't even listen when I say something that I want. He's sort of robotic about it.
That would totally creep me out too. In fact, it made me burst into tears in the middle of sex one time. Since then we have a light on always and eyes open. I absolutely NEED to know he's present.

Missy,
Sounds hopeful. I really wish there was a treatment center around here. I'd go myself if I could find one. Very little IRL support around here. Still waiting to hear from COSA to find out the location of the Friday meetings. Getting frustrated.

I am so sensitive to him acting like the Victim that it disgusts me when he does this and I can't stand to be near him.

Ohhhhh, man, I know allllll about that feeling, all too well. Right there with you!


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.sexualrecovery.com/blog/porn-addiction-erectile-dysfunction.php

Lack of climax is common in SAs. It was the first sign (unrecognized ) that some
thing was wrong in my marriage. It goes along with the need for escalation and is a form of sexual anorexia.

More good news, right? Sucks to be here...:(


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Missymomma, great news about the treatment center! My fingers are crossed for you both for happier times to come.

Hath, that is quite the insight about the autism spectrum disorder. It makes things easier to understand but must raise some concerns for you too.

Torn2bits, have you asked a CSAT or addiction-oriend therapist (marital or individual) for strategies for the two of you to deal with this? It is very upsetting and I would have burst into tears too -- totally understandable and normal reaction. His CSAT has my husband doing a no-porn and no-masturbation also for a few months to give him time to "disassociate" arousal from porn and regain a more normal sex drive. I guess I wonder if you need to do something like this or whether your H is possibly still viewing porn?? Good luck!

[This message edited by cds22 at 8:54 PM, May 13th (Monday)]


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, absolutely no ejaculation and ED are symptoms of SA. What I think is unlikely, is that he was only having this issue with an A partner. That seems a common lie, told by WHs.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Hath and anyone else interested in my random thoughts...

I am an educator. Autism, Asperger's, ASD, those conditions have gone through so many changes during my 37 years in education. There is one theory, and I agree with it, that says that ADD, ADHD, and the others are all "spectrum" disorders, and each is associated with the others.

My husband also displays these "spectrumy" behaviors, as does one of my sons. All three of the men in my lives have one form or another of ADD. They are all very intelligent and creative. All have had some degree of difficulty in school, ultimately succeeding, and SAfWH and DS#1 had significant social issues. DS#2 has NO social issues, being somewhat oblivious to any ostracizing that may have occurred due to his occasional odd behavior

With SAfWH it adds to the difficulty with recovery, it's difficult for him to empathize. It is truly something he has had to learn. Part of that may be FOO but part may be his tendency to be "spectrumy." Mind you, he never has had a diagnosis and isn't likely to. And it isn't about a label at this point, it's more about understanding where he is coming from, both for me AND for him.

I was attracted to his "quirkiness": always have liked people who are different, being so straight-laced and uptight as I am. But I believe SAfWH perceived his differences even as a child and it added to his insecurities, perhaps opening the door to his addictions.

And, I worked very hard to help DS#1 feel good about himself, making sure he was involved in activities in which he would be successful. Despite that, he has fought his own addiction to alcohol, (sober for over a year now, thank God)

It's so complicated. Didn't we all think we were marrying normal guys?


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, May 13th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aim - "Actually the quick part is not so much the problem - I figure that might get better as he proceeds with recovery. The part that bothers me is I'm getting a creepy vibe from it, like it's not me there with him. He doesn't even listen when I say something that I want. He's sort of robotic about it."

I can so identify with this. My SAWH was not "there" with me when we would have sex. In my case, I think it was for one of two reasons (or both):
-he was acting out a porn scene in his head (he would put me in strange postions we had never done before, he would start thrusting really hard, hurting me)

-he was not capable of emotional intimacy and so could not connect with me on an emotional level. He would ask me what position I wanted, then would go somewhere else in his head and do a totally different position.

I am not being eloquent or clear about describing the above and I don't completely understand it, but I can definitely relate to how you feel. It is awful.

ETA: Kat - yes, I thought I was marrying a "normal" guy.... Are you talking about spectrumy disorders or the SA?

[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 9:48 PM, May 13th (Monday)]


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
AimfortheHeart
♀ New Member
Member # 37195
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Arghh. Thanks, everyone, for the info and for sharing your experiences. Really helpful and validating, as always.
More good news is right, Kat.
Lack of climax is common in SAs.

I sent the link to that article to SAWH and suggested he talk with his CSAT about this today. I'm not sure he's told her about the no ejaculation with OW, and I'm pretty sure he's been telling her that we've been having "great sex." I had better sex in the back seat of a car in high school.

Ahhh - now I'm thinking he was always like this and that's why it was so quick. His compulsive porn use pre-dated our relationship, which I didn't know until last fall.
Yep, he seemed like the quintessential Normal Guy - actually, one of the Good Guys.

And Missy, I hear you that it may not be the truth.



Me - BS 63
Him - SAWH 61
D-day #1 8/22/12
D-day #2 11/3/13
D-day #3 12/15/13

Posts: 25 | Registered: Oct 2012
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm. I would have been fine with quirky. Even dealt with a spectrum differences. But the SA? As I've said before, if I'd have had a crystal ball, I would have bailed a long time ago.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there a cranky/mean stage that follows giving up the addictive behavior? So my H has not watched any pornography. Week 1-2 were fine.

Week 3 is not going so well. He has started watching a crime TV show on streaming but he was watching three hours per night for the past three days, basically retreating every night, did not take me up on my request that perhaps we could watch together (though I don't think there is porn available on the tv, we don't have cable just netflix streaming).

Last night I called him out on returning to the same type of withdrawing and avoiding me behavior of the porn era. I told him I had no interest in returning to that kind of marriage and while we can't start MC for at least a few months I did expect us to interact daily and for him to be emotionally present. And he acted like a real brat about it, argued with me, had the FREAKING NERVE to ask why I couldn't show him a little kindness (to which I added the fact that his #ss wasn't out the door was pretty much the ultimate act of human kindness). He texted apologies today and agreed that trying working out in evening, viewing mutual tv show, or even trying meditation might be better.

Today did exercise at night but cranky and surly about helping me set something up in the kitchen. To be fair he was losing his exercise time so I get that he was frustrated but there was a nasty little edge to the whole thing.

The irony of this situation is that when he was viewing porn he was so nice . . . withdrawn and avoiding at times but very mild-mannered and sweet when he did engage with me.

I feel like crying. I am doing so much around the house as he is now so incredibly busy with work, therapy, his reading, and his crime movie viewing. I am devastated in my own right and neck deep in my own therapy, massage treatment, and new gym/trainer regime. And now I feel like there is this snappy, short-tempered jerk in my house.

I don't know if this is going to work out.

[This message edited by cds22 at 10:16 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 4:51 AM, May 15th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't say I know how common it is, as I'm still so new to all this. I can say MrWNW most definitely has a cranky "stage". Only problem is he refuses to acknowledge SA, so his cranky stage is just the beginning of relapse and only worsens. Fortunately, yours is in treatment.

STILL have not heard back from COSA. I get mails about conventions and such, no response on a meeting. Any of you that go, can you PM me, I'll give you my email and maybe you could have someone contact me with a Morgantown, WV #?

Last night, after being confronted calmly and in a loving manner about a recent string of relapses, MrWNW's response was, "No, I'm not going to see an addiction counselor too. I have enough to worry about right now. I am going to focus on one thing at a time. Right now that's the PTSD, Avoidance Personality Disorder, probation and house arrest. I don't need to hear all the time all the shit that's wrong with me. I know I'm not perfect. I accept your faults, and I expect you to accept mine. I'm sorry they hurt you. I'm a man, and like it or not now, all those alpha male qualities are why you fell in love with me in the first place. You can't ask me to be a woman. I already am more in touch with my feelings and emotions than most men. I swear sometimes you want me to be a girl." Of course I replied that being a man doesn't mean being entilted to a harem, etc, but quickly realized there was no point in saying anything and I just cried myself to sleep. He's very lost in the fog.

(sigh) .... heavy heart this morning. Cried myself to sleep last night. I know we can't work if he's not in SA treatment. Monday, before and after court we had such a great conversation, he began making all kinds of positive changes, and I agreed to retry the relationship. He says it's different when we're "us" and I'm into him. He has ZERO clue still it seems what the real issues are. That makes me not in a safe place and I'm re-examining my own boundaries at present. Sad today.

Edit: Oh, and yesterday morning, before all this conversation came up, he started talking about seeing a doctor for ED meds. I knew he wouldn't want to hear SA, so I mentioned how it's psychological, not a physical condition without saying "SA". He agreed with that but then said, "Yeah, but it will help. It messes with my head, messes with your head. This will help with the psychological issues." Awesome, just what I need, an SA on meds to make it even worse. This is also got me twisted inside.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 4:57 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, May 15th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cds,

When an SA is in their initial 90 day period of sobriety and abstaining from porn, sex (even with their spouse), and masturbation, they do go through a withdrawal. My H described a physical and psychological withdrawal.

Last night I called him out on returning to the same type of withdrawing and avoiding me behavior of the porn era. I told him I had no interest in returning to that kind of marriage and while we can't start MC for at least a few months I did expect us to interact daily and for him to be emotionally present. And he acted like a real brat about it, argued with me, had the FREAKING NERVE to ask why I couldn't show him a little kindness (to which I added the fact that his #ss wasn't out the door was pretty much the ultimate act of human kindness). He texted apologies today and agreed that trying working out in evening, viewing mutual tv show, or even trying meditation might be better.

However, THIS behavior sounds like white-knuckling. This is not remorseful, this is not reaching out to a sponsor or looking for a coping mechanism to deal with stress or boredom or any other feeling that he may be feeling in a healthy manner. When addicts white-knuckle and aren't getting their fix, they are assholes. They are "acting in" rather than "acting out".

MC is not something that is really able to be engaged in until the SA has been sober and in recovery for quite some time. That isn't fair, but until they do the work on themselves, they can't do work on a marriage. He may not be capable of being emotionally present.

I am not saying that you should not have expectations of being treated differently, but I think you need to really continue to put your focus on yourself. If he is interested in recovery because he wants to change for himself (and NOT to save the marriage...that will guarantee relapse the first time he gets mad at you), he will follow through. It is ok to put in place boundaries, like I will not engage with you when you talk to me that way. You do deserve to be treated with respect.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, May 15th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

windows,

That makes me not in a safe place and I'm re-examining my own boundaries at present. Sad today.

Edit: Oh, and yesterday morning, before all this conversation came up, he started talking about seeing a doctor for ED meds.

You are right that this is not a safe place. If he is not willing to examine his issues and wants to rugsweep, nothing will change. Add to that the ed meds, and that is a huge red flag. A lot of SA's struggle with ed issues. While he may intend to use these meds with you, he may also want them for masturbation or acting out with others.

It sounds like you need to take some steps to keep yourself safe. I hope you have some IRL support, too.

ETA: I just read some of your other threads about your SO. He sounds like bad news all the way around. His life is really out of control, and when he is talking about "us" I am afraid he is just manipulating you. Please believe you are worth so much more!

[This message edited by TooManyYears at 8:14 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

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