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User Topic: Tell me about "kisa's."
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[\quote]I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them.[/quote]

Absoutely applies. Not sure why my WS esteem is so low. He is very smart and very talented but lazy. Its easier to save dumels than to put in the work on his business and his marriage I guess. His father told me strait up, he is smart but lazy and a body that wont do something aint as good as a body that cant do something.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 10:53 AM, February 25th (Monday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

realitybites.

my H is highly educated and it wasn't about women liking him. It was all about women needing him. See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

We have worked that out though and he now recognizes it and validates himself.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my H is highly educated and it wasn't about women liking him. It was all about women needing him. See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

Yes, mine is this way too. I was raised by a man and typically the dumsel my WS fell for wasnt. So he is her KISA, captain save-a-hoe.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H has KISA tendencies.

One of the things that marks it for me is that one of the first (and only) compliments he gave me what that I had the whole "independent woman" thing going on. Then, without saying, he looked for other women who needed him.

He would let the OW complain to him about her sex life, let her talk to him for hours. I think he felt by listening to her, he was letting her lean on him. He has never listened to me talk for hours, or even for five minutes.

He would fix the nursing students (who he also liked to flirt with) food whenever they were around, because he worried about them not having eaten all day. He would sometimes make food for me while I was tending to our son, which I always thanked him for, and other times would practically throw the plate at me and mumble about how he wasn't anyone's servant. Hence why I no longer tell him when I'm hungry.

He had elaborate fantasies about saving people (my BFF, my cousin, a neighbor's ONS, etc) from abusive people (even if there weren't in reality any abusers) and spent time feeling excessively sorry for others. The wife, on the other hand, could take care of herself, no matter what she was dealing with.

He gives change to homeless folks. Yet I've never seen him give a homeless man a $20 before, like he has to homeless girls. Of course, now he has made me his KISA in the money regard and successfully manages to ask me for almost half my paycheck every month to spend on his stuff. That's about to change.

In short, he likes to feel needed by people. Why wouldn't he? He gets people's thanks, he gets to have pretty girls be extra nice to him, even respond to his flirtings. It's how he knows to get attention, and it's a boost to his self-esteem to have people think well of him. I used to be the same way when I was younger, a female KISA, til I grew some (boundaries that is).

It preserves pretty girls in a certain way for him. Also, it makes them more accessible to him. Someone here on SI said that a KISA is really an asshole in tinfoil. Generosity can be a very important thing. I certainly love him for his. It just makes it harder when generosity becomes boundary-crossing and acting single in order to "help" someone, not to mention when it begins to make your family as the people most in need of help.

If you're not keen on being the damsel whose KISA is out protecting another girl's castle, then bump some of Beyonce's awesome music and have the courage to untangle yourself from your KISA, physically, financially, and especially emotionally. It's liberating.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus. Be mindful, compassionate, and responsible… Something valuable I learned on SI. :)

Posts: 3900 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Lalagirl
♀ Member
Member # 14576
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Huge problems. First, women that need "rescuing" are hot messes. People that know better realize that people are in situations 99% of the time caused by their own fuck ups, not other's, so you're "saving" the perpetrator, not the victim.

AMEN!


Me - 49; FWH - 51
Married 30 years 9/2/13
2 grown daughters-30 & 27
5yo GS & 20 mo. GD & GB #4 due 8/15(DD30) and 2.5 yo GD(DD27). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07
Reconciled! Construction Complete.

Posts: 5017 | Registered: May 2007
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Huge problems. First, women that need "rescuing" are hot messes. People that know better realize that people are in situations 99% of the time caused by their own fuck ups, not other's, so you're "saving" the perpetrator, not the victim.

Women that are in crises, even if it's self created are emotionally unavailable. That's the real draw for these guys. The project. The "win" they require for self validating ego kibbles they need in endless supply.


spot on!! My granny says women like this posess the "Jezebel spirit..." I thought it was some old southern term for "whore" until I looked it up. The above quote is described in much of the readings I found on it.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 12:07 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
naivewife
♀ Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

naivewife,

Have you ever confronted or discussed this with your H?

I have confronted him in the individual circumstances that have popped up in the past, but I'm only now seeing it as a sort of problematic personality trait/weakness that needs to be addressed. I will bring this up and I hope this is brought up in his IC sessions as well. Thank you everyone for commenting. It's interesting to see how common this is in waywards but it makes sense.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
Feelthrownaway
♀ Member
Member # 33772
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't believe they get off on being the KISA. They want to save them, help them, make life better for them. This type of person normally goes way out of his way for other people. Giving loans, giving rides to places, helping them with projects , etc.
Nikki, my husband is a KISA. He has always have high esteem he has has a BA. None of those describe him.

[This message edited by Feelthrownaway at 1:43 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


BW- 48
FWH-49
D-day- aug 16,2011
Married 22 years- together 25

What doesn't kill me, scars me.


Posts: 969 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Down South
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They want to save them, help them, make life better for them. This type of person normally goes way out of his way for other people. Giving loans, giving rides to places, helping them with projects , etc.
Nikki, my husband is a KISA. He has always have high esteem he has has a BA. None of those describe him.

Why tho? I mean, these are adults. We all know the best impact would be on a child if that is one's true calling. So why do are they so hell bent on actually saving people? Why not just be an example to be followed?

My WS is super smart, too. No degree because he got bored and wanted to make money instead. I say his esteem is low because he went around saving people vs working on himself.....


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
BaldwinBeauty59
♀ Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH was helping his employee (MOW) get out of her abusive marriage.

Even after D-day WH told me that he felt like I didn't NEED him.

Yeah, so did mine. After DD, he told me that I didn't need him but she did. He was saving her life don't you know...... Only it turns out that she made the whole abused spouse story up.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, so did mine. After DD, he told me that I didn't need him but she did

This must be in the cheater's handbook. I was told the same thing.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
thenon-goddess
♀ Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts are that someone with KISA tendencies probably lacked needed validation as they were growing up. In my WH case he struggled to get his fathers approval. He didn't get much in the way of loving displays from his dad, and no validation when he had an accomplishment. As an adult my WH requires copious amounts of compliments/approval over even the smallest things. If he makes a new meal, for instance, he has to ask someone 3 or 4 times if they like it. It's like it didn't sink in the first time, he didn't even process the compliment, he has to ask again. Anyway, this damsel in distress comes along and it is an easy person to get validation from. Take these
poor women in their awful and abusive situations and then someone who is seeking validation and reassurance and - bingo! You have nearly and endless supply.


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1238 | Registered: Feb 2011
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts are that someone with KISA tendencies probably lacked needed validation as they were growing up. In my WH case he struggled to get his fathers approval. He didn't get much in the way of loving displays from his dad, and no validation when he had an accomplishment. As an adult my WH requires copious amounts of compliments/approval over even the smallest things. If he makes a new meal, for instance, he has to ask someone 3 or 4 times if they like it. It's like it didn't sink in the first time, he didn't even process the compliment, he has to ask again. Anyway, this damsel in distress comes along and it is an easy person to get validation from. Take these
poor women in their awful and abusive situations and then someone who is seeking validation and reassurance and - bingo! You have nearly and endless supply.

Yep. Similar to my spouse as well. He helps everybody but me though...that part I dont get. He would often tell me to figure stuff out, but would jump up to help everyone else. That is what offends me the most.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to bring up something I posted about in another forum, about a topic which keeps getting repeated here, and that is that our WH felt that we did not need them and/or did not help us when we did need them.

I have been doing a lot of reading and spent lots of time on the Art of Love online forum recently. Many men apparently need to feel that they are making their wives/SOs happy to feel successful; it can be essential to them. Self esteem issues would make that even more important. I think that in most long term relationships with independent women we get away from making our husbands feel needed; I frankly did not know that he needed that. Again, I was that independent woman too.

Now that I am more aware of that I am very careful with criticism and very quick to praise. He has blossomed. He opens my car door, he helps around the house, he makes my toes curl every chance he gets. When I truly let him he became my hero. True the dynamic we had fallen into was largely his fault, but I can really help to improve things myself.

And yes, his LTA was largely KISA in origin.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is the problem with that dynamic catlover, your H is still not learning to validate himself. Is it nice to feel needed? Sure, but I am not going to make that a requirement in my M so my H can stay at home and not cheat. He needs to learn how to validate himself and learn that me being ok and not needing him to fix me is ok. That is a sick form of validation.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BaldwinBeauty59
♀ Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow catlover50 that is spot on. Not only did my FWH tell me that she needed him and I didn't but he also told me that he didn't think that he could make me happy but he knew that he could make her happy. He said that I was miserable with his decision to move us far away from our family and friends and that I would never be happy there. He could make her happy because she had so little and any tiny thing made her happy and she was so grateful. Only until she hooked him then the buy me this and buy me that side of her came out. He spent over $5000 on her. She became very needy and demanding very quickly.

[This message edited by BaldwinBeauty59 at 3:03 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
Housefulloflove
♀ Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them"

Yes! He will go out of his way to be the helpful "nice guy" to someone else. Wouldn't lift a finger for me though. I take that back..whenever we were around other people, he suddenly became my KISA with outward gestures. Then we'd get back at home and that all flew out the window. His AP was a damsel in distress. She was addicted to drugs, lost custody of her kids, her husband cheated on her and left her (oh the irony on that one) and he said that all of their contact (that was CLEARLY already an EA) was just him "trying to be helpful" according to him. He couldn't have NC because that would hurt her feelings (nevermind that he was breaking promises and his wife's heart) Ugh..I still can't believe I dealt with that madness. Then it became a PA and all his excuses of the EA turned into blameshifting and rewriting history.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 3:04 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ catlover

I get that. But when I needed him he wasnt there for me. I lost my grandfather and father within 6 mos of each other. He wasnt there for me. When I did ask for his help, he would literally tell me "you're smart, you'll figure it out"...I guess the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the most oil....


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
h0pe4ul
♀ Member
Member # 38446
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! I've gone through the same things with my KISA. One thing I realize is that I am very independent and vocal, things WH hates about me. He is always saying I have to "get the last word" or "challenge" him. (Huh???) I'm grown! I have a graduate degree and know I can make it w/out WH and I believe that these are things that really lead him to cheat. It's his choice I know but I don't know how to be anything other than who I am. I don't want to be anything other than who I am. What attracted WH to me is the one thing that repels him now. All of the OW make him feel like the best thing since slice bread bc they are either not getting what they need from their spouses or are single and lonely (desperate) or are in affairs w/MM themselves....They tell him all of their problems and he is the man in their eyes. I should be so lucky to have a man like him (per the OW) and is something he tells me from time to time....

Posts: 176 | Registered: Feb 2013
BaldwinBeauty59
♀ Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them"

My FWH is highly educated and in upper management. He was suffering low self esteem temporarily because due to the bad economy, he had recently been laid off from his job of nearly 30 years. He tied his identity with his career and felt like a failure to his family. He accepted a job out of state against my wishes and the move was hard on me. I was unhappy with his decision and our new life. Howorker at his new job zeroed in on him as he was the new boss and seduced him. He was ripe for the picking. I truly believe that if she hadn't interfered with our M, I would have adjusted to our new circumstances, his self esteem would have returned after he got over the hurt of being laid off and feeling old and discarded so that he would not have been in a vulnerable position and cheated. She lied and deceived him that she was an abused wife and "needed" his help. Once she got his sympathy she went in for the kill. Doesn't excuse his poor choices. He should have refused her advances and he should have talked to me about how he was feeling and that she was coming to him for "help". He chose to keep his friendship with her a secret from me because he enjoyed her adulation, her adoration, and her hero worship of him. Now that he knows it was all fake, he feels pretty damn stupid. He knows that if he is ever a KISA to any other woman that I will D his ass. One of the boundaries is NO personal conversations with any female coworkers. If she has a personal problem, he is to direct her to another female staff member, tell her to call a relative, friend, whomever as long as it is NOT him.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
Topic Posts: 75
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