Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: DevastatedWH (43169)

General Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Tell me about "kisa's."
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder if part of it is a pride/shame thing as well. WS might feel that since he or she is still married to you, that you have enough food, roof over head, etc. then she or he is "taking care of business" at home and can extend that kindness to others, and then focus a lot of energy on "saving" others. Of course, this brings up boundary issues as well as intimacy issues. By doing that, the WS neglects to invest and even pay attention emotionally to what's happening at home and misses all the ways the family STILL needs support. Creates a situation - "the AP is in need" - to step over the boundaries that are there for a reason. Another "justification" for an A - "s/he needed me". Maybe the WS assumes that simply by being home, they are doing a great job as a spouse and their BS needs for nothing. imo that also brings in compartmentalization and projection - the WS can tell him or herself that the BS doesn't really need him or her the same way the AP does because the WS him or herself feels stable at home. But not inside.

ETA: The idea of "I am head of my castle, I am a good provider, so my castle is protected," and then noticing someone else's castle is in trouble and going to check on them... Except then not having the good boundaries to be a team with your family, and letting yourself go down the slippery slope into an A while maintaining that role.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 3:44 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
h0pe4ul
♀ Member
Member # 38446
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's exhausting to have to validate someone's feelings all the time. There has to come a time when the person needing that validation has to find that strength within themselves. I am not saying we shouldn't encourage others or build up our WS...but, as soon as we don't give what they want, they will go right out and find what they need elsewhere. More than needing validation, it just shows me there is no real committment to the other party, only to themselves. To be with someone just bc they make you feel good is a shallow thing bc relationships to me are give and take....not take, take, take....not give, give, give...both sides need that balance of give and take. A relationship where nothing but giving is draining and where nothing but taking is selfish. Not gonna work either way unless both parties involved are OK w/how things work in their relationship.

Posts: 161 | Registered: Feb 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to bring up something I posted about in another forum, about a topic which keeps getting repeated here, and that is that our WH felt that we did not need them and/or did not help us when we did need them.

I don't think this is a KISA thing. I think it's a validation thing.

There was a period of time where my wife was openly chatting with OM until I confronted her about it, we had a big argument and she promised me she wouldn't talk to him anymore. During that time, there was a conversation/argument that involved the following exchange:

Me: "Why is it you only seem happy when you talk to that guy anymore?"

Her: "He has a lot of things going on. It's just great to feel needed for once."

Me: "But I need you." Granted I said that last in a kind of whiny and plaintive voice but she was already back to typing away at him anyway and I'm not sure if it was even heard or not.

That exchange isn't necessarily verbatim but it's close enough. See, I *did* need my wife at that time. We also have children that needed her. She really was wanted and needed, but not in the way the OM expressed "need" - and she got her 'ego kibbles' or whatever people call that kind of validation.

I will say that I did feel pretty emasculated by being totally ignored there. Unnecessary. Just some dude who smelled bad and got in the way around the house. I think there are a lot of BW around here who feel completely undermined in the same way though. The "you aren't so special I need you around" kind of thing is pretty universal IMO.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Pudding
♀ Member
Member # 37168
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is very helpful. My fWH is definitely a KISA. I think he was brought up very traditionally to look after a woman and he has extended it too far so he becomes the shoulder to cry on, the last person at a work function who makes sure all the girls get home safely etc.

We have discussed this and he now recognises it and we are discussing what kind of help is OK and what is not. He still doesn't get it right all the time.

Funny thing I note is that when I am triggering bad, the one thing I DO NOT want is for him to be my KISA. I do not want to be put into the category of one of his helpless damsels. I am independent, can look after myself. I don't want a lift home. I want to walk myself. I am above needing his flirty gallantry. He can keep that for his ex OW. That is in the past


Posts: 220 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: UK
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There has to come a time when the person needing that validation has to find that strength within themselves.

Amen to that!


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's really just predatory behavior of looking for the "weak" to feed themselves.

I've definitely seen this too. Or seen people outright take the role of predator in order to find someone to abuse - they save someone, and then the person owes them forever, or if their whole goal was to prey from the very start then they become the next abuser, which then calls for another "KISA"... Sick, sick, sick. And the "damsel" might have their own KISA complex of saving the abuser from him/herself, or else a learned helplessness to keep themselves searching for and "needing" KISAs. Like you said, tending their own drama llamas.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silverhopes and Stillgoing..

GRAET points!


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 647 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that a person needs to provide their own validation; and that's what IC is for. I do think, however, rightly or wrongly, that many men feel better about themselves, and their wives, if they feel that they are being appreciated for their efforts. I also know that my own fWH lost sight of me and himself for a time and that likely no amount of validation from me would have reached him (and I did try). So they need to do the work on themselves too.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1651 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
IrishLass518
♀ Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During one of the last arguments I had with xWH he shouted at me "You don't even NEED me! You do everything around here." He was right, he was gone so much playing fanatsy KISA that I became capable and self reliant.
What he didn't understand was that I never NEEDED him, I was always capable of making my own money, running the household, paying the bills. I just really WANTED to be with him for the rest of my life and that is so much more powerful. Now, I am happy alone and I am very capable


Me: 45 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 22, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 11
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1465 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, February 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With the X it was definitely not about control. It was about making himself look better to make himself feel better.

Before I knew the phrase KISA, I called it 'picking up strays'. It didn't matter if it was a man or a woman; the X always found the most down-trodden person in the crowd and befriended them. They could be the most screwed up, white-hot mess of a human being, but he was their best buddy. He has serious self-esteem issues, and this made him feel better about himself.


I promise to surround myself with amazing souls and love them fiercely.

Posts: 19154 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
luvedmypbear
♀ Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex is a KISA

during our most recent R attempt, he "had to help the female bartender close the place and take out the garbage for her".....and he "had to give her his number becuse she was going through a really tough time"

but

he never in well over 14 years has ever taken the garbage out for me.......or listened when I was going through a tough time
and he wonders why no more R ever for us!

[This message edited by luvedmypbear at 6:27 AM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
trebleclef
♀ Member
Member # 33488
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lots of great points in this discussion - and all of them apply to my STBXWH/KISA.

The #1 thing that attracted me to him 43 years ago was his gallantry. Had no idea the trouble that would bring.

What started out as admirable has grown to become pathological and damaging. Both of his OWs were DID (dumsels in distress)
He wanted to buy OW1 a dinner theatre ticket (to see MY show) because "she doesn't get out much", wanted to bring her home for supper "because she's worked so hard today" and when I said no he took her out for supper instread. He hauled rocks for her ( wouldn't for me) fixed up her place, fixed her car, drove her around, gave her parenting advice, gave her MY foot massage bath for her poor tired tootsies, took her out to eat every day. She gave him ego kibbles. And used him as a sugar daddy. MOW2 was an immigrant who needed him. To help her with English as a second language, he signed up as a tutor (neglected to tell me for months) He spent weeks and $ renovating her new love nest room. Even her BH tried to tell me, "oh he nice man, he helping business". (Really? 20 Business calls a day at all hours? )

I am so sick of hearing how "nice" he is. He has made a career of it. but it is not about the people, it is about how he is SEEN.

Interestingly, some narcissists love to be KISA because it makes them look good.

I think this describes him.
Also:
- lack of validation in FOO. Looking for approval
- bottomless pit in terms of needing pats on the hand/head.
- thrives on the "everybody loves D"
- engages WAY over the normal convention with absolutely everyone but particulary females. ( I had to meet him for business the other day and as I listened to his tired old lines to all and sundry, I thought to myself that he uses his charm to grease all relationships. He's just a gigantic "tube of lube", lol)

He told me that:

OW1 reminded him of his sister who died of alcoholism that he wasn't able to "save".
He needs someone to "take care of."
( how about me?)
MOW2 admires his business acumen and gives him validation.

He has now rewritten our history so that "Treblclef" didn't admire and pat him enough and he was justified in getting that elsewhere. I think the sex was just a bonus.

The term "knight in shining armor" is one he has used himself forever - as a compliment of course. I'm sick of hearing it. He has such an overwhelming need to impress and get attention and strokes for doing it!
No "secret" deeds for him. His pathological need to be seen as the good guy has taken over his life and affects every decision he makes.

I have to keep reminding myself that there is a huge difference in being SEEN as the good guy, and BEING a good guy. For him it's all about what people will think of him and what he will get back.

Like many things, being a KISA is a good trait that turns malignant in excess.



True remorse isn't followed by a "but".

Posts: 1807 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: Alberta
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is naturally empathetic and chose to become a doctor because he honestly wanted to relieve suffering. He likes to be useful and helpful. It's part of his personality and it can be very positive.

However, there's a dark side. Because of an abusive, alcoholic FOO, WH is uber sensitive to feeling like a failure. When he's under a lot of stress, mistakes don't feel like mistakes--they feel like proof that he is an inferior, unworthy person.

So, when WH thought he may have made a big mistake in research (turned out he didn't), this triggered shame that he wasn't good enough and fear that I would find out that he didn't deserve me, and a general emptiness.

What could he do to avoid these awful feelings of insecurity and weakness? Enter WH the KISA. Time to duck into the phone booth and don the Captain Save-a-ho tights (Thanks, NikkiD)

It wasn't that WH really cared about OW. He wanted to feel better, and being a KISA let him feel powerful and important.

Once upon a time there was a beautiful, sweet princess (friendless, workaholic, damaged OW with zero self-esteem).

A wicked witch trapped the princess in a tower. (OW manipulated WH for months until he saw her as an abandoned, innocent victim of child abuse who desperately needed him.)

The princess sent a secret message to her noble KISA. (OW told WH that if she died, her body would rot alone in her apartment because no one cared about her.)

Valiant KISA galloped over hill and dale to the tower. (WH drove to her apartment and found her naked, sobbing in her bed.)

The KISA swept up the princess and rescued her, and they lived happily ever after. (WH fucked OW.)

However, WH actually loves me and our family is the most meaningful thing in his life . . . He was hit with guilt, shame and fear of losing us whenever he couldn't keep the A compartmentalized and separate from us. So, he would try to end the A. OW would get desperate, hysterical, and threaten suicide, and *fanfare, please* KISA would ride again.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 12:43 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like many things, being a KISA is a good trait that turns malignant in excess.

Isn't that the truth!

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 1:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.

Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.


Posts: 5522 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
CantacceptThis
♀ New Member
Member # 37289
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This has been an eye-opening topic. I'm wondering how does it jump from listening/providing advice to the DIDs to screwing them? And in doing so, jeopardizing EVERYthing??

[This message edited by CantacceptThis at 3:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


Me: 41
Him: 40 (PA with ex g/f from 20 years ago)
DDay: 10-20-2012, then more details on
10-25-2012 (worst day of my life)
The trusting ship has sailed...no clue when or if it will ever dock again!

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Midwest, USA
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.

Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.

Wow I'm speechless. It is EXACTLY my situation. My WH said he felt I didn't need him. Well duh after not being helped with 2 kids for so long no I'm not gonna need his help. They are idiots, the lot of them


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.
Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.

Cheese-its........that's it. We need to get some male insight on how in the hell it goes from helpful to fycking


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 647 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
onel0ve25
♀ Member
Member # 35974
Default  Posted: 1:43 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband is definitely a KISA!

Affair #1: He was "saving" HoWorker from her evil husband who worked 2 jobs to support her and their child which caused him to not provide the unappreciative spoiled gold digger with enough attention.

Affair #2: He had to "save" Army Whore from the horrible situation between baby daddy #2 and her daughter. The girl told everyone he was molesting her, and CPS got involved, so she just HAD to have a shoulder to cry on about her horrible choices in men. And while I understand that is a HORRIBLE thing that happened, I don't feel an ounce sorry for her, I only feel sad for her innocent daughter.

Boundaries now include: NO HELPING ANYONE BUT YOUR WIFE, MOTHER & SISTER! I don't care if the woman needs CPR or for someone to talk her off a ledge, you scream for help & get your ass home. Sad...but HE put himself in the situations to require such boundaries.


Me: 21, 1 EA/PA 5/10-6/10
Him: 24, multiple online EAs, 2 EA/PAs 7/10-2/12
Our littles: Bunny, 3 & Teddy, 5 <3
A couple of mad hatters hoping for a happy ending...
Together 7 years, Married 3 years
I won't stumble upon something behind me.

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jun 2012
SusanR
♀ Member
Member # 29368
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In MC, we discussed this phenomenon. He said he was attracted to me because I was smart, capable, strong, and independent and than he picked somebody totally opposite to have an A with.

I believe it was more about him needing external validation. I was pretty wrapped up in my work and hobbies and staying sober. I think he wanted someone that "needed" him and he knew I didn't.

Doesn't make what he did okay but it helps me to understand his weakness. I actually look for ways to make him feel needed now. I have given myself permission to be weak at times so he can be my KISA.

It's a fine line to walk (being needy but not too needy) but I see him "light up" whenever I ask him for help, ask him to take care of something, or state that he is better at something than I am.


Posts: 1922 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
Topic Posts: 75
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4

Return to Forum: General Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.