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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
I adore you and I can't wait for the day that you tell us that you threw your fear to the side and stood up for your future. (((((honest)))))

The gender stereotyping: Like all stereotyping, it's unhelpful, offensive and perhaps damaging. It really needs to stop. We're not dealing with a gender here, we're dealing with individuals who have all experienced a particular type of extramarital affair. I, for one, am sick of being told that I want or need XYZ based on my genitals.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree wholeheartedly ImNellNow. It is disturbing to me.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a posting by wincing_at_light made over in the Betrayed Men's thread. I hope it is okay with SI guidelines and WAL to repost this here. I feel it is a very important message that you BH's need to see and hear.

Over the last couple of months my mind has defogged and I'm now beginning to see all the warts - flaws etc. of stbxWW. This process has been nothing short of amazing to me.

This is both a good and a healthy thing. I'm going to say this, because BH's often get bombarded with the inverse (i.e., all the ways that you "betrayed" your wife that led her to be vulnerable to an affaair), so it's worth having in your back pocket:

I have rarely -- like *never* -- seen a BH show up on an online forum for whom infidelity was the first marital betrayal his wife had ever engaged in. Fucking other dudes was just the straw that broke the camel's back. On some level, I think that most married people realize on any given day that they are given less from their spouse than they're entitled to by the phrase "love, honor, and cherish." We all fall down on that sometimes. We get crabby, don't have enough coffee, become snappish because of shit at work, forget to be compassionate during arguments, spend too much money on something we want, etc., etc. The list is endless.

Then there's that whole other layer where we each keep an image in our minds of what an ideal spouse should look like (product of television, family of origin, the model of our opposite sex parent, on and on) and grade our spouse against that yardstick -- while never *telling* them about the yardstick, because to do so would be manipulative.

My sense is that in normal marriages, these petty sins and betrayals dismissed beneath the gloss that mature love gives the other partner the benefit of the doubt. Love is patient, in it's very narrowest definition. It is *at least* patient, and immensely more besides.

Before any man chooses to reconcile, the question he should be asking himself first is what else his wife can bring to the table other than just not fucking other people -- because I can guarantee you that when the WW comes back to the negotiation of the new marriage, she's going to ask for a shit ton of concessions (under the guise of "unmet needs" or "pre-A issues)...as though she's been living with this horrible example of a man for years and years as a perfect saint, then one day it was just too much and she snapped.

That is a gallon of bullshit, and every married man I've ever met knows it. If we're honest with ourselves, when our WW presents us with a list of the things we've done wrong, need to change, or have historically slighted her...we've got a list just as long that now has "fucking other dudes" appended at the bottom.

There is some value to be obtained from the process of differentiation that should (and must, I contend) come after a major betrayal with regards to the image of our wives that we carry around inside our heads. It's a good thing to dust off that list and read it in the light of day. Betrayal on the scale of infidelity or physical violence doesn't just happen one day, out of the blue. It's built on an edifice of minor betrayals over years and years. Little manipulations, lies, disrespectful judgments, faulty comparisons against the imaginary standard (on and on) for which any consequence was deemed worth the joy derived from the betrayal. (This is usually phrased as some variety of "finally standing up for myself" or some such shit, like the wife has been silently accrueing these wounds and burdens over endless years, just taking it and taking it until she reached her breaking point. Don't know about you, but that's nobody's wife I've ever encountered. Not even my mom, and she's the closest thing to a genuine saint on the planet since Mother Theresa passed.)

The default shouldn't be reconciliation, not without that honest inventory of your betrayals list that forces you to ask yourself if this person was ever really fit for marriage with you -- because it's going to be clear from her justification pattern that she's got a whole raft of pre-A issues that she's still itching to take you to task for, even while she's telling you out of the other side of her mouth that her A was the price you paid for that multitude of sins. That's the great part about being a BS -- you're told that no only did you have it coming to even up accounts, but that you should have to pay for all of those things again in order to repair the marriage. You're going to have to change, become "better" (however she defines it) and comply with her ideal standard of what you and a marriage should be like so she gets her redemptive kudos for turning other dudes' dicks into marital aids. (You know this narrative -- if the marriage doesn't end up somehow bettah.than.evah, the WW is likely to view the whole reconciliation as a failure and be ready to bail again in five years. In this game, she's always setting the terms for bettah.than.evah without any real consultation with you about what you might want out of marriage. You're supposed to be content with the fact that all of the dicks have gone back into her mental dresser drawer to only be dragged out again in those times when you *really* -- and inevitably -- fail to meet her standard again.)

As Admiral Akbar said, "That there, son, looks like a trap."

Because it is. If any relationship is going to succeed at being truly intimate, there's got to be give and take. That doesn't mean just doing each other's honey-do lists and trading off dinner prep. It has to mean that when she decides to identify some shit she thinks you've got and call you on it, that you also have the freedom -- and the right -- in the context of the relationship to pull out your own list of ways you'd like her to be more like Amy Adams. And if she expects you to be compliant or it means something terrible about your depth of love for her, than she ought to be goddamned giddy about the opportunity to submit to your demands.

If she gets to remake you into her image, then it should be her greatest desire to be remade into yours. I'm sure most of you have heard this same advice in softer language: a man should do whatever he can to please his wife, to show her that she's the most important thing in the world to him.

What I'm saying is that it's reciprocal. It must be reciprocal, otherwise it's just manipulation. There's no give and take; it's you giving and her being the one given to.

And that's an easy trap to fall into if you're a guy who has become accustomed to the little betrayals and expressions of selfishness and decided to cover that multitude of sins with love. When you begin to see your wife rightly -- as the product of her actions, a mix of both the one who took care of you when you had a cold that one time, and the one berated you in front of your buddies because you hadn't cleaned out the gutters after she told you it needed done *two days ago* -- then you remember that compassion has to go both ways if the relationship is to be worthwhile. You have the right to demand as much compassion as you've given; and if she won't reciprocate, then you have the right to treat her with the same disrespect (or, you know, divorce if that's not your ideal relationship model).

In any honest inventory, most of us should be able to come up with dozens of examples where we let our wives breach our boundaries -- treat us in a way that we wouldn't let someone else treat us, but that we forgave or dismissed in the name of love. Fucking other dudes was just the most egregious example; the one that rose to the level of intolerable.

Look, I'm not advising you to be an asshole scorekeeper here. I'm advising you to be honest with yourself. To ask yourself why you settled for less than you deserved while not accepting the same in return. What is it with you, your model of marriage, or your habitual train of thought that let you dismiss the same sort of damage that you've been called to pay full price for?

Why was forgiveness an option for you, while she was stockpiling her resentments for future punishment? Why didn't you demand equal treatment? And why did you stay in or consider rejoining a relationship where there exists such a gap of equality?

Because that shit has got to change. Either she's got to be willing to do better, or she's got to be willing to accept less. Otherwise, you should have no interest in allying yourself with someone who is always going to take more than they give.

Does she want to feel more secure? Than she should be willing to make sure that *you* feel secure -- and not just because you're "not the jealous type". Does she not want to be yelled at when you're angry? Then she'd better be willing to never raise her voice at you. Does she not want you to spend so much time on a hobby? Then she'd best be making a list of the things she likes to do that she's willing to give up to carve out more alone time with you and the kids.

The biggest flaw I see in modern relationship counseling is this bullshit idea that when we identify a relationship problem (i.e., something my spouse is fucking up), that our sole responsibility is to bring that to their attention. Tell them you have a boundary and won't tolerate it any longer.

That's shit. It's a cop out. It's taking something I don't like and making the solution your problem. It takes the "problem" out of my basket and puts it into yours, so I get to blame you not only for the problem existing, but for any failure of the issue to get resolved if the future doesn't live up to my liking.

Here's what I think: if you identify a problem, the onus is on you to work through the possibilities and come up with possible solutions that will remedy it. That's owning the problem *and* the process of resolution, as well as demonstrating that you're willing to compromise in a way that no one feels like they bear the brunt of it. Even more importantly, this sort of approach gives some valuable intel to both parties: the "problem-identifying" partner gets to gauge how invested the "problem" partner is in addressing the issue (i.e., how much their input is valued); and, the "problem" partner gets to gauge how reasonable (or just manipulative) the "problem-identifying" partner is by the solution they propose.

Both parties gain valuable information on whether or not the relationship is worth continuing in light of the issue that's been raised. They're on a level playing field.

So many of us were "blindsided" by our wives' infidelity...and that's a pity, because I can guarantee you that she'd given you plenty of warning that fucking other dudes was in her grab bag of potential responses to butt-hurt if we'd been paying attention to who she was demonstrating herself to be rather than who she was telling us she was. No, we were too busy looking at the mental image of her as "someone who would never do something like that; she luuurves me" to read that sanskrit.

Actions, not words. For most of us who looked back over years of marriage before the cheating, it wasn't hard with a bit of emotional distance to see that fucking around was just one more step in a pattern of disregard, abuse, and disrespect that had been going on for quite some time -- but that we didn't pay attention to because we loved her too much to call her on her shit (or whatever).

If you ever had the thought, "Boy, if that was any woman other than my wife, I'd say that was pretty hinky behavior", you know what I'm talking about. If you ever watched a buddy just absolutely get his shit reamed by his bitch-wife and thought, "Man, that reminds me of that one time my wife...", then you also know what I'm talking about.

If you ever gave your wife the benefit of the doubt when you would have taken someone else aside and said, "Son, you need to stand up for yourself" -- then to believe that your wife fucking other dudes was an aberration is simply an intolerable assertion.

And then you need to set about figurig out why you've loved yourself so little that you let yourself settle for that kind of treatment instead of tossing her in the rubbish bin of your past like she deserved.

"Because I loved her" is not a viable answer. Users and abusers do not provoke authentic feeligs love.

"Because she's better than that; it was a bad day/week/year." is also unviable. She's not better than that. She is who she is, which she tells you by her actions. If you believe she is better than who she has shown herself to be (repeatedly), then you're not married to your wife. You're married to an imaginary version of your wife who just happens to resemble the warm body you crawl into bed with every night.

Don't misunderstand me here: I believe that at it's best, love is aspirational. I believe that it sees the best in us, even when we don't. I believe that the best love even gives us the benefit of the doubt when we fail, and we all do.

What love does not do is call the truth a lie, and a lie the truth. Love doesn't pretend that the abuser is not. It extends grace to the abuser in the hope that the abuser will become something better...and it also loves itself enough to care for its own needs and safety. Love does not break itself so the abuser can feel better about who they are while aspiring to nothing.

None of us should settle for less than we deserve from those we love. We've made that mistake in the past, and we've seen how it ends. You want real love? Demand as much as you give. If your partner isn't up to it, accept that and move on to someone worthy of you -- all viewed through the lenses of honest self-reflection and grace. You can still grade on a curve, but if you're tempted to change the answer in the teacher's edition of the textbook, then chances are you're going to far.

And for the love of God, always remember that you know yourself better than anybody you're married to/dating/in a relationship with. If they're full of shit, trust yourself well enough to acknowledge that they're full of shit (or FOO or childhood trauma or whatever other base they might be working from).

Peace.

Machiavellian idiot savant
Posts: 6307 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
♂ Member



BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel it is a very important message that you BH's need to see and hear.

I read it but a lot of it doesn't seem to apply to me....oh wait, is that the point??? irony of gender stereotyping or just a double standard again?

Nell I get your point, for me I guess some of it just comes from recently being slighted by the member of the opposite sex that I had trusted the most. Now I am left just trying to understand what I must have missed.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As this was in the Betrayed Men's thread, WAL is speaking of WW's. Not women in general, but WW's in general. There is a difference there, RP.

I don't feel Nell was talking about what you post, RP. I can't speak for Nell, but I haven't seen in your posts "a woman needs this" or " a woman feels/thinks" this way.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The post that Sister reposted here was written with those pronouns because it was originally in the Betrayed Men (or Betrayed Husbands?) section. One could -- and this one did -- reverse the pronouns and edit the "son"s to read "lady" or some other female reference. My M is all over that post. It could have started "Dear Nell,".

IMHO trying to understand the person who shat all over her vows to you by trying to figure out Us Wimmenz is doing YOU a great disservice. She didn't bang some loser POS because she's a delicate flower who you under-watered. She's an adult who knew damn good and well that her choices were wrong and hurtful and shitty and she did them anyway. The question now is not "how can I keep WW happy so she won't bang other men?," it is "what is going on in her head and soul that allowed her to have an affair, and is she going to do something about changing it?" Guess what... that's your question to ask but hers and only hers to answer.

The question for you to answer is "what do I want and need from a marriage?" Then, once you've figured that out, the next question is, "is marriage with this person going to allow me those things I've identified?"

While you're figuring out the answers to your first question, WW should be figuring out the answers to her questions. When you've got your needs and wants figured out, it will be a lot easier to decide whether what WW has will bring you closer to a good marriage in your view, or take you farther away.

I'm sorry you--and all of us--are in this situation. It sucks.

ETA I cross-posted with Sister... because I'm verbose and she got straight to the point!!!

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 1:34 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She didn't bang some loser POS because she's a delicate flower who you under-watered. She's an adult who knew damn good and well that her choices were wrong and hurtful and shitty and she did them anyway.

Nell that is Awesome!! Probably the best damn advise I have received yet. I think you are right, I am putting myself in my WWs shoes and trying to figure out why she did it. I would have never done what she did and if I had my wife would have left me right away. Thank you for the questions!


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister, to answer your question specifically, I think it is a "good thing". Really, it is just an invitation to reconcile if you think about it.
Inviting them back to reconcile is cool but at what point does the BS sit back and say I have invited for long enough with no response, time to end the pain?

Someone's WS may not still be in an A but they aren't 100% fully engaged in the M or the recovery of the M either. Which means you aren't truly in R. You are in limbo. I am not talking about the WS that are actually trying but trip up. I am talking about the ones that can't make up their mind from week to week or still have the mindset of them and their problems and still figuring out what they want, etc.

As I started to truly detach I noticed the same patterns over and over that I was stuck in with my STBXWW. It really stuck out when I would come her to post and started recognizing the same thing over and over in my own posts which was me trying to rationalize the relationship with my STBXWW and having the same exact 2 hour conversation over and over with her. Once I started worrying about me and not my STBXWW things actually did get better for me and I actually could see that her actions were saying that she didn't actually want the M but would never file for D. So I filed for both of us.

At the end of the day an unremorseful spouse is still an unremorseful spouse and by focusing on what they are doing instead of what you are doing you just stay in limbo and the same cycles over and over.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:37 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also the Betrayed Men thread is awesome. It can be crass at times but they can be pretty blunt and brutal in calling out a BH that is still in his own FOG. Some good guys in there but it can be "kill an ant with a sledgehammer" at times. I intentionally did not post in there because I KNEW what they were going to say. I got my kick in the pants/motivation to change my situation from reading "Codependant No More", "Love must be Tough", and the help of the LTA gang.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell, of course, you are spot on. That is so funny that you posted about the "delicate flower" because that is exactly the words I was thinking of, too.

And, of course, WAL's post could easily have reversed the pronouns and have it read as the WH or even just WS's.

7yrsflushed ~ You are spot on, too. The Betrayed Men's thread is tough. I can't read it most of the time. It is way too manly for me. But, I think you bring up a good point.

I am wondering if some maybe hiding out here in LTA because you know that your "way" won't fly in either General, Reconciliation or the Betrayed Men's thread.

You would be called on your behaviour or the behaviour you are accepting.

I am not speaking to anyone in particular. I am speaking in general here.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Betrayed Men's thread is tough. I can't read it most of the time. It is way too manly for me. But, I think you bring up a good point.

I am wondering if some maybe hiding out here in LTA because you know that your "way" won't fly in either General, Reconciliation or the Betrayed Men's thread.

You would be called on your behaviour or the behaviour you are accepting


I'll take a shot at answering that. I have found the general and reconciliation threads a bit frustrating because once you fall off the front page your thread seems to get ignored. The first page on those seam to turn over every 12 hours as well. As for the Betrayed Men's thread I have not looked at it recently but when I did before it seemed like a bunch of Divorced guys complaining about their ex - as I am working on R it didn't seem like the right crowd for me. I welcome the opinion on LTA from those who are D or heading that route as it is good for me to see that viewpoint, I just don't want it to be the only viewpoint I see.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are a few posting in the Betrayed Men's thread that are reconciled. Just on pages 19 and 20 there is WAL, hardlessons, 5454real, wert, StillGoing and still-living are all either reconciled or on the journey. But, that is now, and as I don't go there often, I don't know if that is usual or unusual.

I agree that the General forum has a fast turnover. Reconciliation goes at a slower pace and I feel it is perfect for people who are reconciling, but you don't get as much of a cross section of people posting in there if you want a whole lot of different perspectives of people who made different choices.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll have to check out Betrayed Men sometime again and see if it is a better crowd than when I first looked.

Now your not trying to get rid of me are you? You should know I am a BH whose WW cheated on him for 12+ years and I'm still hanging on there. Apparently it takes a lot to get me to leave.....(I'm just teasing you a bit )


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister: Thank you for sharing that post. Just change the pronouns for me and like Nell said, it was written for me. It should be in the healing library.

The question now is not "how can I keep WW happy so she won't bang other men?," it is "what is going on in her head and soul that allowed her to have an affair, and is she going to do something about changing it?" Guess what... that's your question to ask but hers and only hers to answer

Nell: LOL, again, switch the pronouns and I think this is the same for ALL R with a WS.
We have to remember that the old M is DEAD. A new marriage must be rebuilt. I guess, both partners have to decide is this the person I want to build my life with? There are a thousand reasons why, and not just limited to love: shared life, family, friends, history. If both partners are willing, they have work to do.

I love that post by WAL.

Especially:

If we're honest with ourselves, when our WW presents us with a list of the things we've done wrong, need to change, or have historically slighted her...we've got a list just as long that now has "fucking other dudes" appended at the bottom

Of course, pronouns changed for me

This post by WAL does not apply to every LTA or every A. Nothing is "one size fits all". But IMHO, I'm beginning to believe that those who engage in a LTA have some serious issues that have to be dealt with.

One other thing I wanted to add, saying that one "allowed" thier spouse to stay out at night or whatever... We are not our spouses parent. I know if I questioned WH about where he was, he always had some plausible explanation or lies built upon lies about how he was negotiating some deal etc, etc. xWH stayed out late drinking for years and nothing I did or said changed that. The only thing I could have done was left him before he cheated.

I cannot control another human being. I know I became codependent in the way that if I tried to be the best wife in the world and gave WH everything he wanted, he would love me and treat me right. It wasn't even a reciprocal relationship that I thought it was. In a crazy way, being codependent like that is a way to try to control, but all I wanted to try to control was that he would keep loving me. Sounds crazy and it is.

Then spending all that time and energy in doing that and then getting slapped in the face time and time again, is more hurtful. The self esteem is down to zero.

Sorry for the ramble.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP ~ don't you dare leave. You are part of the tribe, and, unfortunately you have the credentials. You have a lot to share.

I just feel some may get way too comfortable here and maybe they need to spread their wings and dip their toes in the ponds of different forums. They need to hear a lot more voices than just the Tribe.

Check out Divorce/Separation and New Beginnings. Even though we are reconciling I read in those forums, too. I learn from everyone here. I need to hear the voices of the divorced and soon to be.

I will never close my eyes and think "that will never be me/us" I want to be aware of what can and does happen in our marriages after infidelity in years to come.

Some have been reconciled for quite awhile, a seemingly good one, and BAM! cheating again.

I will never be naive again about my marriage. That is the one "never" I am comfortable saying.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Applauding Nell

IMHO trying to understand the person who shat all over her vows to you by trying to figure out Us Wimmenz is doing YOU a great disservice. She didn't bang some loser POS because she's a delicate flower who you under-watered. She's an adult who knew damn good and well that her choices were wrong and hurtful and shitty and she did them anyway. The question now is not "how can I keep WW happy so she won't bang other men?," it is "what is going on in her head and soul that allowed her to have an affair, and is she going to do something about changing it?" Guess what... that's your question to ask but hers and only hers to answer.

Just to add, there is no rational explanation for irrational behavior. I've looked, it's not there.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...your "way" won't fly in either General, Reconciliation or the Betrayed Men's thread

raises hand


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP

As for the Betrayed Men's thread I have not looked at it recently but when I did before it seemed like a bunch of Divorced guys complaining about their ex - as I am working on R it didn't seem like the right crowd for me.
The Betrayed men thread is just like this one. The tone and discussion shifts depending on who is posting and what is being talked about at the time. If there aren't any new people posting it generally the regulars kind of just hanging out. Like you I gravitated to the LTA thread because I couldn't really find what I was looking for in the other threads. For me, what I realize that meant now is I personally wasn't ready to confront the fact that I was still searching for a way to fix my WW. It hadn't clicked for me that I couldn't fix her and was better off fixing me. I could say it and type it in posts but it hadn't really sunk in yet.

I don't know if this makes sense but reading in the LTA thread made me realize that, for ME anyway, I believe that I had been conditioned over the years to accept less than what I deserved in the M but continually gave way more than I needed too. So the pattern was when things went bad I did even more to try to make it better which was the wrong thing to do. I eventually came to realize that I treated R the same way. I was putting in way more that I needed while accepting way less from WW. So it was time for me to see if she could pull the weight and she didn't so I had to change myself and get out of the M or be miserable. I also ran the risk of making the same mistakes in future relationships. IC helped greatly with that and reading "Codependant No More".


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
m334455
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Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All I can say is read anything WAL or his wife post. They are very smart people.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny that WAL is getting mention. I do look at that other thread often and saw that post last week.

When I read it, I was struck by the difference between him and Tryn.

...and that I have been positively influenced greatly by such different perspectives and views.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:27 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

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