Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: SoCalBoy (43217)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, March 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wal and wincing do rock...

great posts sister and nell....

and one thing that wal said that really hits home is that we all settled for less.......and that was my biggest sign....and for the most part my only sign....i won't go into the only other sign now....its sexual in nature and lets just say i believed him because i thought i could, though i should and believed the believable!!

m3: love hearing bout baby paddy....we kind of adopted her here...

honest: your legal issues are as deep and as complicated as it could get.....HOWEVER dear heart.....it doesn't matter in the grand picture...you still need to do what you need to do, for your own sanity, peace of mind and most importantly for your future happiness.....

are you happy now????...im betting thats a resounding NO.....so what do you have to lose.....

what will it take to bring you happy?....he will never be that for you....so what will and how will you attain it....map it out, plan it and ACT on it!!!

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:52 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well Nell, Let me give you something to ponder…. I can say with certianty, men and woman DON’T think alike. I know I have science behind my statement. For instance, Men have slightly more white matter than females both in volume and in length of myelinated axons. Using a computer network as an analogy, the gray matter can be thought of as the actual computers themselves, whereas the white matter represents the network cables connecting the computers together. Hummm?

She didn't bang some loser POS because she's a delicate flower who you under-watered.
Clever Nell.. But of course that was part of it. Let me challenge you…

You ever heard of peer pressure? Asch conformity experiments?

A study where there was group of “actors” and one “participate” to study behavior. The actors were told to give an answer to the question all the same one way. The participate was always last. On the first series of common sense questions, the actors answered all the common sense answers correctly as did the participate. On the last question, the actors intentionally gave the wrong answer, to place the participant in a dilemma. What did the participant do? 75% of the participants gave an wrong answer, to bow to peer pressure. Only 25% had the courage to say the correct answer. Proof that some people respond wrongly to how others behave. Most participants exhibited a "distortion of judgment" A different subject but not much difference in concluding that how we behave does have some sort of reaction by our spouses. RSEB reacted just like my W, a "distortion of judgment". It was not the way she should of reacted, but it happened that way. Had the actors just not been dishonest, the participate would have conformed. But when the actors gave the participant a delimma, some people had the power to do the right thing, most didn’t. Do you understand what I say?

RP on the other hand, his W’s secret was always a secret. I honestly believe his W never really left the mentality of being single. Maybe at the time of the “I do” she thought she could stop, but when it came down to the living it, something like a drug addiction, she just gave herself the OK to continue do it. RP’s W ended up married living a singles life. And RP.. allowing you wife to continue being single I think will bring you more misery.

Sister.. thanks for sharing that post from WAL. I read many of his post and I think he is consistent in his belief all the time. My making that post simpler for my mind …my comments are in bold.

He starts that with the “I do” stuff I speak about. We all have this faith in those words. But we still both are not perfect. He goes on to say.. we don’t speak up. I ask Why? people avoid conflict. Good marriages over look, ignore, let go, of many of these “imperfect” things.A good thing when both do it He goes on to say marriage is mutual, but after infidelity a WS will demand more from the BS, but we should stand up because we have a long list too. Once the spouse cheats, the BS is suppose to not only take the pain, but change his past bad behaviors. The WW bad behaviors lead to improvement. She is rewarded. a bit of whine.. hey.. life is not fair Some woman try to set the rules forward and we are suppose to accept. oh.. he said the WW should be happy to SUBMIT to her man now! Then another comment about mutual again. We BS fall into the trap by allowing things to go back to normal and we shouldn’t Same as NJgal says so often.. yes.. we must now be in a new M.. so true so true But then he makes a about US, our tolerance was higher, we were not place in a position to the point where we had a"distortion of judgment" or we are the 25% strong group. We should not forgive unless.. more mutual things.. Then he beats up the IC for telling us we should have been protecting our boundaries which seems to me what he recommends in the pph before. Then.. he says the signal were there, but the “I do” gives us comfort and safety. More about what we accepted..our own tolerance.. Then goes on to say we should expect nothing other than our partner loving us the way it is supposed to be or we should leave.

My conclusion on his post.. It’s good. Pretty much what we say here.

- We should not accept mediocrity in our M.
- Everything for the good of the M must be mutual.
- Stand up for yourself.
.

For those that make the choice to R… We accept life was not fair. We never get even.

Men in war drive over a IED and get legs blown off. No way to get them back. Life is not fair

Women get cancer and must remove their breast. Life is not fair.

Children die. Life is not fair.

People have their life savings stolen by men like Bernard Madoff. Life is not fair.

Unfortunately, I could list so many other things we all face in life.

You fine folks keep working at it.. understand it.. pay it forward what YOU discover.. talk it out.. make it a goal to find resolution and you will get it.

[This message edited by trynhard at 5:53 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: your legal issues are as deep and as complicated as it could get.....HOWEVER dear heart.....it doesn't matter in the grand picture...you still need to do what you need to do, for your own sanity, peace of mind and most importantly for your future happiness.....

Honest, you will get there.. make a plan.. A simple job to start. Lean on those that love you until you can stand on your own. I would give to my parents what I could to help them... your boys will help you. You can take the leap. Yes, the water will be cold but your body will Acclimate..

Gotta.. you still around?


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am wondering if some maybe hiding out here in LTA because you know that your "way" won't fly in either General, Reconciliation or the Betrayed Men's thread.

Sister.. you refering to me? Hiding out?

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C..
So,W will return a day earlier than I from our respective trips and she will find a card with my ten promises to her:
To have fun with her.
To respect her.
To forgive her.
To give her space
To help her chase her dreams.
To admit when I am wrong.
To worry about her.
To protect her
To trust her
and to always be there for her.
Her A is done. It is the past. I am working on the best possible life and my W can choose to join me.

I don’t think you are all over the map.. back and forth. You want your M for all kinds of reasons. I get that. Haven't you been consistant with.. Get back in the M or I will give you what YOU want?

If you want your M, she has got to be 100% in or.. she is going out. Plan and simple… join your happy world because you no longer are going to make her part of your life if she gives you any less… Join me.. or you are going to get what YOU want honey. Not what I want, but what YOU want.
Now.. What you listed is the man you will become. If she wants all that... She’ll get her head back in the M. All you can do is be that man. The rest is up to her.

and to always be there for her.
Yes you will, but only if she is always there for YOU!!!!


Why I admire Nell… She gave her H a chance to see all her beauty. All he wanted to see was her thong. She no longer made him part of her world.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:30 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I have science behind my statement. For instance, Men have slightly more white matter than females both in volume and in length of myelinated axons. Using a computer network as an analogy, the gray matter can be thought of as the actual computers themselves, whereas the white matter represents the network cables connecting the computers together. Hummm?

Nope. Women's BRAINS have nearly 10 percent more white matter than men's brains (connectivity); whereas men's brains have more gray matter than women's (thinking). That's the science. Scientists have theories about what those differences mean, but nothing has been proven, because the brain is a complicated organ. So you taking that (incorrect here, but perhaps what you wrote was a typo) science and posit your unproven theories of gender-based inequities as fact using the science to back you up, what you're doing is manipulating the data to "prove" your own biases. Junk science. If someone is providing this information to you, I would be critical of everything else they're telling you. Because, basically, it's a load of shit.

When you were studying brains, did you not come across studies that showed new neurons formed to take over tasks usually delegated to damaged parts of brains? Happens all the time.

Why I admire Nell… She gave her H a chance to see all her beauty. All he wanted to see was her thong. She no longer made him part of her world.

Thank you, tryn. But he "saw" all my beauty. In fact a few weeks ago, he called in tears to claim he will always love me. I divorced him because he refused to look at HIMSELF and change HIMSELF, not because he didn't admire me. He saw my beauty the whole time; but I took a hard look at the facts... a marriage with the man he was, without any movement on his part, would be untenable to me. So I opted out.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What about this picture?

Image courtesy of University Of California, Irvine

Heck I suppose it could be junk science.. I guess I got that backwards.. It may have more to do with what we ate that day? or drank.

When you were studying brains, did you not come across studies that showed new neurons formed to take over tasks usually delegated to damaged parts of brains? Happens all the time.
different types of brain designs are capable of producing equivalent intellectual performance

You really think men and women think alike?

oh how they want to hop back on that train when it already left the station.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:43 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If someone is providing this information to you, I would be critical of everything else they're telling you.

Nell I think you have made some excellent points, careful of taking those points too far though. However becoming critical of everything I hear, whether that person has ever been wrong to me before or not is something I am becoming increasingly good at after this experience.

RP on the other hand, his W’s secret was always a secret. I honestly believe his W never really left the mentality of being single. Maybe at the time of the “I do” she thought she could stop, but when it came down to the living it, something like a drug addiction, she just gave herself the OK to continue do it. RP’s W ended up married living a singles life. And RP.. allowing you wife to continue being single I think will bring you more misery.

This is spot on correct. My WW tried to give it up just before we were married but after she couldn't stop. When we started having kids she says she tried to stop as well (this I am a bit unsure of, she knows the implications of this would be difficult - not impossible - to overcome if she is not telling the truth). It seemed very much like a drug addiction. For many years of our early M we actually just ran all of our banking / financials separately - kids eventually made this too complicated. She is bothered when she sees couples that share a facebook page, she feels the wife loses her identity. My WW very much wanted to benefits of both a married and a single life at the same time.

As to WAL's post, it is an interesting read with many good points. Maybe it is too soon yet for me, but I have not once been given a list of things I need to change from my WW. She has not once said anything that I did was the cause or reason or excuse to why she was looking elsewhere.

I have rarely -- like *never* -- seen a BH show up on an online forum for whom infidelity was the first marital betrayal his wife had ever engaged in.

Maybe I am WAL's lone exception, but in my case infidelity was the first marital betrayal my W had engaged in, it started day 1. A drug addiction seems a much better fit and that is why I don't think she blames me for any of it.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How about this by Michael G. Conner, Psy.D, Clinical & Medical Psychologist


Men and women approach problems with similar goals but with different considerations. While men and women can solve problems equally well, their approach and their process are often quit different. For most women, sharing and discussing a problem presents an opportunity to explore, deepen or strengthen the relationship with the person they are talking with. Woman are usually more concerned about how problems are solved than merely solving the problem itself. For women, solving a problem can profoundly impact whether they feel closer and less alone or whether they feel distant and less connected. The process of solving a problem can strengthen or weaken a relationship. Most men are less concerned and do not feel the same as women when solving a problem.

Men approach problems in a very different manner than women. For most men, solving a problem presents an opportunity to demonstrate their competence, their strength of resolve, and their commitment to a relationship. How the problem is solved is not nearly as important as solving it effectively and in the best possible manner. Men have a tendency to dominate and to assume authority in a problem solving process. They set aside their feelings provided the dominance hierarchy was agreed upon in advance and respected. They are often distracted and do not attend well to the quality of the relationship while solving problems.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/articlespapers/documents/differencesmenwomen.htm

As a man I am trying to show my competence, strength of resolve, and commitment to our relationship.

Heck RP, Nell can tell me anything. I never take offence. I might learn a few things along the way.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:00 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP.. If she really thinks the following
she feels the wife loses her identity.

She is meant to be single.

Why do you think demand mutually is good or bad? IMO..In a M that what it is suppose to be. It can start today.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:02 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn' ~ I wasn't speaking to anyone in particular about hiding out in LTA. I was talking about some men and women maybe hiding out in LTA in general.

I have done it. When I felt I was treated to harshly in a forum, General, I have retreated to LTA.

I don't blame anyone, it is nice here in LTA. Safe. Supportive. The Tribe is very kind.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8984 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn,
I really like that picture. It would probably be better if it showed the gray matter in the woman's brain and the white matter in the man's brain... because as a stand-alone it appears that the woman's brain has no gray matter at all, and the man's brain lacks white matter altogether.

RP,
I'm glad you were spared the list of Ways You Suck. I got it before DDay and it was a big ol' mindf*ck! Of course, after DDay through the present, I'm amazing. I prefer the current way of thinking, but learned from the first.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is bothered when she sees couples that share a facebook page, she feels the wife loses her identity.

RP, this was (is?) an issue for FWW. She was very concerned if we were to "close", that she would lose her identity. I believe this was also tied to her desire to keep her surname when we married. She talked in MC of keeping one foot always out the door in the relationship, and wearing an "emotional body condom" to keep from being too intimately connected. This was one of the issues I felt I really needed to see some change in for me to stay in the M. I understand that openness and acceptance will never come naturally for her, but I needed a more authentic W to stay M. Only time will tell if she has really made this change, or become better practiced at mimicking authenticity.

As for the WW coming out of the A with a list of issues for the BH to resolve for the sake of the M, in the initial weeks and months after dday there were plenty of things that were identified as my fault and that led to the problems in the M. Once FWW began to understand and own her issues, the issues with me dropped away.

She raised the A last night as we were talking. One of her two points was that the problems in the M were problems in her, and that she does not believe that she would have been as understanding and patient as she believes that I have been if the A shoe were on the other foot. She meant that to be a compliment to me, but I told her how that gets to my concern of having been too patient and too understanding.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:18 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

last nite when i was posting here, i had begun this whole passage on the differences between men and women or lack thereof.....and then i decided against it....because on the whole...it doesn't matter.....it really does not matter...i tell my mom all the time that pfm should have been a woman...he exhibits so so many traits "typical" of a woman...and i should have been a man....because i exhibit many traits characteristic of a man....every time dr phil tells one of his guests to "man-up" all of the things he advises them to do do man up are things i DO DO!!!......but alas i am not a man....

what matters is how you treat people...what matters is the respect you give and the respect you command and demand!!!...what matters is that you could look into that proverbial mirror and like who you see, knowing that you have done the best you could, knowing that you have done "right" by others and yourself!!!!

i do believe in a basic sense men and women are different.....emotionally and physically....but how they differ is irrelevant on the basics of doing right!!! irrelevant on the basics of how you make amends!!! irrelevant on how you treat other!!!

generalizing people does not always work......and when it comes to infidelity there is no general rule that applies....of course there are the basic rules that apply to all, and then after that they need to be tweaked to each individual person and each individual circumstance

of course we have so much in common which is why si is so successful in what it does for people...the stories are all different, the people different...the basics the same...

we could all relate to posts made by either sex, whether it be male or female......change the pronouns and there you go...its your story.....

(((((tribe)))))

now i need to woman up and cook some dinner..

oh...don't tell the world top chefs that either...that cooking is womans work!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haven't been able to follow the recent posts but saw the last page or two...

Look, Tryn. Many of us have told you that we find your generalizing offensive. So you should stop just because of that. If that's not reason enough, you should at least temper your generalizations with the realizations that they don't apply to every woman. We like being treated as individuals, you know, not as examples of the subspecies "female'.

In any case, whatever the average in terms of differences between men and women -- and I think even "scientific" assessment of these are pretty skewed due to bias -- there's a huge overlap in the curves. For example: I have very good spatial awareness. I am off the charts good at this stuff, confirmed by psychological testing (I once did one of those tests where they rotate 3-D objects and you say whether they're the same or different... I didn't get a single one wrong.) I was really good at geometry -- didn't even need to study it, I just "knew" it. I'm good at maps and remember how to navigate cities that I haven't visited for years. My WH calls me his XPS (where my first initial rhymes with G).

That's just to say that this is something that men are supposedly better at than women. Does that make me a man, or a freak? No, it makes me an individual. So to tell me to let my WH take care of directions because men are, on average, better at this is just ridiculous. Similarly with generalizations about sex and feelings. My WH comes home from work and wants to tell me ALL ABOUT his day. I would rather veg out with a bit of quiet time and have to tolerate his chit-chat. Not that I don't want him to talk to me, I'd just prefer a bit of space at the end of the day.

Oh, and Miracle? My WH is a great cook. And what's even more embarassing... he likes to BAKE! (Don't tell the gender police!)


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW tried to give it up just before we were married but after she couldn't stop. When we started having kids she says she tried to stop as well (this I am a bit unsure of, she knows the implications of this would be difficult - not impossible - to overcome if she is not telling the truth). It seemed very much like a drug addiction.

To me this is kind of a copout on your WW's part. She may not be blameshifting and saying you were the reason for her A or more accurately her marrying you while still maintaining a relationship with OM. The drug addiction analogy is kind of right. She knows it's bad but couldn't stop but that means that her A was more important to her than you were and that is just plain wrong. Has she truly addressed why she thought it was okay to have 3 people in the M and not commit 100% to you? She needs to figure that out because without figuring that out neither of you have any basis or foundation to begin figuring out what your future healthy M will look like. Can you still figure it out, sure but she has to fix her issues. IMO, her reference point has always been 3 people and your reference point for the M has always been dealing with a W that was never 100% in the M.

For many years of our early M we actually just ran all of our banking / financials separately - kids eventually made this too complicated.
Whose chocie was this? I ask because while it's a personal choice on combining finances did your W resist because she had one foot always out the door (or both feet never completely in) and was leading 2 seperate lives?

She is bothered when she sees couples that share a facebook page, she feels the wife loses her identity.
My W used to say stuff like this. For her it was fear of commitment. Her FOO issues meant no matter how stable I was she was scared to commit. Like going all in meant she would lose herself. When the reality is by holding back you end up not finding yourself at all because you never commit to anything.

My WW very much wanted to benefits of both a married and a single life at the same time.

As you stated she wanted both so the question is what does she want now and is she doing the work to figure out why she was never able to commit to you and your M 100% and what will you do if the answer is she doesn't know or can't commit.

As to WAL's post, it is an interesting read with many good points. Maybe it is too soon yet for me, but I have not once been given a list of things I need to change from my WW. She has not once said anything that I did was the cause or reason or excuse to why she was looking elsewhere.

You didn't get a list because she was getting what she needed from you and the rest from the OM the entire time you were married. She literally had the best of both worlds and never needed to change a thing. The reason others got the lists is because "something went bad in our M" in our WS mind at some point so they justify why they had the A and put that on us. Your W never had to justify because she was getting what she needed from both of you. The blackhole was constantly being fed so maybe there was never a period where things "went bad" for her. Or she just hasn't said anything to you yet.

That could change though. Whatever issues your WW has that made her think it was okay to have an A for your entire M are still there if she hasn't worked them out.

ETA: I am not stalking your posts to be negative all the time. I think your Dday was a few months ago so you may or may not have hit the boiling anger stage or even come out of the shock stage. I am just trying to point out some stuff you may or may not think at some point in the future based on what I went through. If it doesn't apply please ignore.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:04 PM, March 14th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, March 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs - no worries at all, trust me there are times that I think I could use a whole lumber yard of 2 x 4s.

I think the separate banking really was a mutual decision and not pushed hard on either side. Of course looking back that sure made having an A so much easier I bet. OM1 was a loser so I did ask my WW if at any point she was financially helping this guy - she said no. She did sound suprised when I pointed out that he went bankrupt during the period they were together.

I see this abrieviation used here and I have to ask what it means....FOO....is that family of origin? If so my WW definitely has those issues. Her Mom was married to a guy that she didnt know was also married to another woman with another family at the same time - double life which apparently my WW created her own.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 4:55 AM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Heck RP, Nell can tell me anything. I never take offence. I might learn a few things along the way
.

Tryn, I have to say, if nothing else, I really admire you for that attitude. When I want to bang my head on the table at some of the generalizations, that is what pulls me back.

I know I said that as an old-timer I was going to try to post more, be more encouraging, but the past few weeks have been particularly busy IRL and it doesn't look like there will be much of a let up for at least a few more. But... I want to stick my head above water again on the generalizing issue.

Personally, I'm offended by it. But that's personal. I can decide to read it and get irritated, read it an not let it bother me, skip it, whatever. I do agree that it's junk science and as such is easily manipulated to make a point in either direction. I know when I read things about "women think" "women feel" on here, I'm often left thinking, but I don't think that, I don't feel that. And--granted it's been a busy few weeks--but last anyone checked, I was a card (or vagina ) carrying female.

The bigger issue, though, is that I don't think leading people to think in generalities rather than individualities is always helpful in coping with an LTA. We are all dealing with the common experience of an LTA, but that's the only generality here. Each BS, each WS in an individual, not a package of gender-determined traits. And each of us has to deal with their spouse and their journey individually, not based on "all women" or "all men."

And, in fact, as I think I tried to say in an earlier post. Sometimes that kind of stereotyped thinking about what "men" think and do and what "women" think and do, can actually be at the root of some of the issues that can lead to affairs.

Ok, signing off for another day of craziness.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'morning Tribe,

Laura has some funnies posted up on stupid picture Friday.

As for the on-going generalizations discussion, I believe that all generalizations are false.

I think we come to SI and are often amazed at the commonality of our WS's behaviors after dday. The slippery slopes, excuses given, the redirection, and the TT. Then we see great commonality in our responses as BS. The numbness, loss of appetite, searching for blame within ourselves, and bargaining for our M back. Finally we begin to respond to the A and our WS actively, and again there appears to be commonality in what works (NC letters, establishing and enforcing boundaries, Not Just Friends) and what does not (nice-ing our WS back, questioning the OP, hoping time alone will resolve the issues).

After all of this “by the book” behavior across the board, I think it is reasonable to extends this expectation of commonality further to our WSs and their reasons for the A and their paths to healthy perceptions and behaviors to replace the wayward thinking and behaviors. This I think is where the generalizations begin to seriously fail us.

At the risk of “re-generalizing”, I see some different types of A even here in LTA. Starting with the A I know best, FWW’s problems were related to her childhood, and how she perceived relationships in her life. She was unwilling to participate in an emotionally intimated relationship; she kept a barrier up in all adult relationships. She behaved the way she thought others expected her to; she did not experience authentic feelings. She was impulsive, and did not see future consequences arising from current activities (spending, drinking, eating, or sex with OM). She had poor internal emotional control, most things were black or white with very little gray in between. She experienced feelings as facts, so if she was unhappy around me it meant that I did not like her. If she felt excited and happy around OM, it meant that she loved OM and he loved her. These were some of the issues that my FWW had to work on to be a healthy partner in the M.

My experience in working through A-crap and with a WS is based on this reality. Being able to R my M required much more than better communication and establishment of boundaries. My FWW had to be able to perceive and experience her life authentically before communication or boundaries could help.

I can envision a situation where an otherwise reasonably healthy WS is bored in the M and feels neglected (a well-documented and common occurrence), and slides down the slippery slope after poor boundaries and shared intimacies with an OP create the opportunity for an A and the perceived affirmations that go with that. In such an instance, establishing healthy boundaries and mutual re-commitment to the M including communication may be all that is needed for R after the healing has occurred. However, I do still believe that this is a more rare situation in LTA, that the ability to maintain a long-term infidelity is a symptom of underlying issues with empathy, intimacy, narcissism, addiction, etc.

Finally, I admit to not understanding wayward behavior and why things work or do not work. Five months ago, I was ready to separate, and FWW was willing to give me what I wanted. Now we seem to be doing very well, my needs are being met and I have few wants (and none of my wants is realistically attainable). I cannot explain what changed. In the past when I failed to pursue very clear and attractive opportunities for an A was it due to strength of character or fear? Or was it that there were few opportunities, and had I been a more social, outgoing, and attractive person (like FWW) that the potential OPs would have tried harder and worn down my boundaries?

I do know that Tryn has found something that works for him and Mrs. Tryn. So have others. For some of us what works ends up with R, and for others D; but it is working. As iwam would post, we have found their path of least regret. I think that we all want to help other Tribe members to find this path, and we want them to find it from a position of healthy ego and not humility or “settling”.

I do know that in my sich, the best outcomes occurred when I stood up for myself. Not when I raged against FWW, not when I begged or tolerated FWW. It was the times I knew what I needed, knew what I wanted, and refused to stay in a M that did not meet those needs. Each time I left, or planned to leave the M, it was not in anger or feeling hopeless. It was with resignation that my path of least regret led elsewhere.

Have a great weekend Tribe. I have typed too long and it is time for a coffee.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brooke and ats,
Hear hear. Well said.
And now can we drop the subject and get back to dealing with long-term affairs?

Happy Friday, all! Off to read some funnies down in F&G.

XO - Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate Lock This Topic is Locked
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.