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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
honesttoafault
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Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bravo Brooke and Ats!! I agree with Nell!

Ats: I loved your post. I agree with it completely. There are many commonalities of the LTA where we can relate. What is also great about this forum is that is like group therapy. We get to know each other's stories. We try to help each other the best way we know how. What helped me so much was the support and also since so many knew my story and remember some of the things I posted, the wonderful members here helped me see reality. They reminded me of things that NPD did before. I was validated that an incident was part of a pattern.

We are all individuals here, but we do share that pain that a LTA inflicts and it is different than a short term affair.

{{{{{Tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
ImNellNow
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Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest, I've lost track. Is WH/PD in the country still or has he gone away again?


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you ATS.

...feels neglected (a well-documented and common occurrence), and slides down the slippery slope after poor boundaries and shared intimacies with an OP create the opportunity for an A and the perceived affirmations that go with that...

Yes^^^ for my case along with the:

addiction, etc.

The 'Etc.' being constant anxiety and perfectionism. The A interaction (being redundant to earlier posts) was a balm/drug for the anxiety. The long distance (2000 miles away) also was an enabler for the duration.

I often wonder about this myself:

was it due to strength of character or fear? Or was it that there were few opportunities...

...when I am on my high horse. Which means me wondering on occasion if the resentment I sometimes feel is related to my not being able to go get what she got. It's a twisted approach to feeling bad about oneself, as in I was not attractive as evidenced by no one wanting an affair with me.

I do know that Tryn has found something that works for him

^^^ and probably for me. Not because it is the best approach in any absolute sense, but really due to my own circumstances and what happened in the immediate months after dday. In terms of carrots/sticks, I have no negative reinforcement options available to me now. Anthing like that, after what has happened over the last year, would seem like mean punishment. The window for that passed last year. All I can do is hold out the carrot, be most 'attractive', fix myself, be 'quality', and get to the place where I can choose to leave if she will not reciprocate.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 2:44 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel I understand what you are saying (finally) Jack.

Do you consider yourself reconciled, on the road to reconciliation, or kind of in a limbo state? Is your WW actively trying to help you heal? Are you happy with the way things are now in your marriage?

Sorry if those questions have been asked and answered before.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8990 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I consider us on the road to reconciliation.

During Year 1, the WW did everything she could to help me heal. Not sure what the WS can really do other than maximizing love languages, listening, talking about the A on demand, etc.

Her one caveat to interacting with me was that I could not be mean and cause conflict when she was working. That negatively affects her job and thus the health and safety of others. As she works a lot, it has been hard for me to respect that boundary...you know emotions run away with you.

Overall, I am happy about the M in its current state if I look at it objectively. To the degree I am unhappy about things, I seriously consider if it really isn't just my problems (FOO, now terrible ADD) that is in the way.

The only thing I am ambivalent about is my WW's self examination. She and her sisters were emotionally abused by her parents. They are all hosed up. One sister is so angry that she has trouble even seeing her parents. My wife is at the other end, she is in denial and still idolizes her parents on some level. She learned the art of self -delusion long ago.

My $1MM question:

We hear so much about the WS fixing themselves, almost as a prerequisite to having a good M. That the brokenness will undoubtedly re-manifest in repeat A behavior.

There is a good chance that in my M, that if I follow the "tryn plan", be quality/attractive that my WW will reciprocate never have an A again, and our M will be good by most standards. What do I do with the notion that she must be fixed?

I know she has anxiety, perfectionism, and conflict avoidance due to her witnessing abuse and not feeling good enough. Isn't it easier for me to work around that than for her to unwind deep seated emotional baggage? Now that I am an expert with new found 'emotional intelligence'...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:42 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All I can do is hold out the carrot, be most 'attractive', fix myself, be 'quality', and get to the place where I can choose to leave if she will not reciprocate.

ATS's first scenario described my STBXWW perfectly as well. Tryn's advice about quality applied to me in the same sense that it applies to MC JACK. In my case though I was in false R for a year and I was pretty much completely drained. It was a last ditch effort to save my M but I ended up doing the work on myself instead.

Soemwhere around the time I started posting in LTA I read somewhere that divorced men lived like 10 years, or something like that, less than their married counterparts. The rationale was they tie their identites, self worth, and well being to providing for their families. Once that's gone some lose their drive or some other stuff like that. I read books and went to different webistes all trying to save my W and my M but hadn't really focused on saving myself. The point was reading that statement made me really start to ask the questions that SMS just asked along with what do I actually want out of my life. At that time I literally said if I wasn't maried with kids what would my life look like and the answer was pretty damn sad. I had lost myself in the M. So I talked to the IC about it and decided to figure out what made me happy and what I wanted again. That was when the true changes started for me.

Detachment got easier and I decided that there was life after marriage. I wanted those 10 years back. If my WW wasn't going to be fully engaged in the M then I was better off by myself no matter how bad I thought it might be. The unknown became more inviting than the known misery I was currently living in.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read Nell as a powerfully quality woman. She can harness her feelings and conflict most effectively. She can read my black and white and tell me I am full of grey matterÖ lol.. I thought these were LTA issues?

I may be wrong, but I believe this is not about generalizing about ďmen and woman thinking differentlyĒ but much more about my comments about the reason behind why our spouses cheated. My saying everyone should be taking personal responsibility to change some things about themselves. I also suppose it could have been me asking the woman here what they thought about that comment that woman who watch soaps, those woman use up all there sex bucket therefore it is empty when the man comes home. And perhaps without these women even know it or why they are not ďin the moodĒÖ Perhaps it was that comment about women argue with feelings, men donít.

My posts have been very specific on the needs of both men and woman. Those entire lists came to me at a very high cost. Am I generalizing those?

I can say in general that woman cheat because of lack of attention and men cheat for sex. Heck, thatís what many of them told us.. right? That is a generalization. Can we accept that simple explanation? I didnít. Does that generalization fail us? I donít think so. Can it? Yes if you do nothing with it and you take the yes and donít expand on to a point where it might just bring resolution.


Blobette

I am not going to stop generalizing. But owe you an explanation. Iím glad you are good at math because you should get what I am sayingÖ

First, it is not my attempt to generalize that men are better than woman nor woman are better than men. I do believe men are better at some things and not others. The NFL has only men for a reason. I also can understand that women are good at many things men are not. I also realize everything has a bell curve. It does not mean the population does not intersect in cases or fully the same in others.

But when it comes to A related things, there are differences. Differences in a womanís needs verse a manís need. These are natural differences in how a woman behaves and how men behave and they are taught to us by our FOO. Some men and women characteristic are almost exact, some are not. But within each one of those differences characteristic there are people who will fall into a manís curve and, the same goes for a man falling into a womanís curve. I donít paint my nails but women do. I might doll myself some, to the extent most men doÖ (BTW.. a womanís need.. not really a manís need unless he is gay.. another generalization perhaps, but every man I know is not that doll up kinda man, 30 minutes, hair gel, cologne, a jacket and off we go..)


I can generalize that in no way as a population, women think, have the same desires, and behave the same when it comes to many aspects of sex. My W and have had openly safe discussions about this many times. She has discussed it with her friends. Her own obgyn told my W, when she figures it out, please tell her. I have had conversation with the men friends. I have had a Physiologist tell me that too, that is fact. You can read it everywhere. And many needs of a woman overlap as to be the same as a man. Our FOO teach us to think this and it is gender based. It does not mean the end result wonít always be the same. I am not saying Wís donít want sex all the time either. I think they do. But how a man behaves, how we think, which is different for a man and woman will result in the door being opened.. or shut.


Iwant likes my graphics.. lol..

What I hear you saying I should stop generalizing and get more specific. I wish I knew the subjects of generalizing you are offended? Was it my belief that ďmen think different than womenĒ? I make an argument. We are different in both grey and white matter. No big deal I think. Why is that offensive? Nell corrected me. Or was it a comment I made that woman generally argue with feelings, men donít. My comment about the soaps was to get you fine ladies feedback. Am I wrong for wanting to know your feedback?

If society is telling women to take her man, sweep him off his feet, carry him upstairs, rock his world. Can a woman achieve the same task men are supposed to do? No. My wife couldnít because I am 195 lbs.. and she is about 115. Could some women do it? Yes. At least some Iíve seen at the gym. Itís rare and not the norm. If men are physically different, why not mentally? We are on this earth, a man and woman, and are suppose to have difference roles. Itís nature to me. You are a woman, I am a man. We think different, we behave different. That is a norm to me. I think it is fair to speak norms. I would never recommend telling you to stop posting any comment you have, and I expect the same from you. You make valuable post and I value each and every one of your post. Now, I gotta go love my wife a bit with a glass of wine and look forward to your future post.

For the newbies.. One thing I do know, that someone from the tribe post here with a troubled mind, we circle the wagons.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:51 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

know she has anxiety, perfectionism, and conflict avoidance due to her witnessing abuse and not feeling good enough. Isn't it easier for me to work around that than for her to unwind deep seated emotional baggage? Now that I am an expert with new found 'emotional intelligence'...
Did she figure out why she had the A? If she never truly figured out why she had the A in the first place and dealt with those issues then she is likely at best a dry adulterer. The issues you listed likely had an affect on her decision making skills when it came to the A. If she hasn't addressed them and you act like they don't exist then you are rugsweeping imo and setting yourself up for a potential DDay or some other blackhole filling activity at some point in the future. If she is addressing them even slowly then it's just how much patience do you have.

ETA: I was in false R for a year because my WW never addressed her issues. She also listened to me and tried to help me cope but in the end she was the one that initially said she couldn't do it anymore bu tnever filed. So we ended up in a miserable limbo like state. She never would address her issues which she acknowledged but thougth they didn't matter. Everybody including the C could see it was those issues that needed to be addressed but you can't force someone to address them.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 4:00 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like generalizations. If the difference between the two means is statistically significant, then I have at least a 50% chance of being correct in making my generalization.

But seriously, just because something statistical is descriptive does not mean that it has any predictive power. So no erason to take offense anyone, ESPECIALLY when we are having intellectual discussions.

7yrs et al: It is a matter of patience. She knows the issues at hand. She knows the pain she caused. She only has a certain amount of emotional capacity on a daily level to handle 'issues'.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 4:04 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Blobette
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Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, thanks ATS. Very nice post. I was originally attracted to the LTA thread because I had a very helpful exchange at one point where our WHs exhibited very similar characteristics -- attention-seeking "nice guys" who were loving and attentive throughout. The mind-boggling part of the whole thing is that my WH was never nasty or unkind to me and to this day has never blame-shifted in any way. He was pretty much instantly remorseful and has worked hard at making things right. That's not to say that things have always gone smoothly, nor that I'm a happy camper. As we both point out, if he was nice to me then and is nice to me now, what's changed? What's to say he's not the same? So we're working on that, a lot. And he has "changed" in that he's actively seeking be of more practical help, which was one of my main beefs since we had kids. Not to mention that he's changed jobs so that he can be around a lot more.

But I do still spend a lot of time brooding about what kind of person can do this thing and whether I can ever trust him again. And the whole thing that Tryn brings up re the fundamental unfairness of it all. My life was really destroyed through no fault of my own, and now I have to live with this sense of failure (which I know is irrational) and the sense that I have a second-rate relationship, whereas before I lived in a fantasy land of thinking I had the best husband ever and I was so, so lucky. Although that may sound spoiled to you, you have to realize how messed up my relationships have been in general -- so having a happy marriage was a major accomplishment for me.

So, that's about me and the stuff I need to work on. MC, I think you do need to get your wife to work on stuff, because if you feel you're doing all the work, making the compromises, you're never going to feel safe. (Not that I expect I ever will.) And what's so hard about this is that our LTA WSs have had such a long time to build up those emotional walls that it's hell trying to knock them down. It's all very well for us to say that they need to do the work and they need to realize the pain they've caused, but the truth is that LTAers are a different kettle of fish -- by definition they're pretty good at avoiding things. So that puts us in a difficult position. I do feel I have to keep pushing WH, although he tells me that I'm over-anxious about this. Perhaps I am and maybe I can let go at this point. My IC was questioning my motivation for wanting to talk to his IC -- once again, that I don't trust him to do the work, and I don't trust his IC to push him. And this is yet another sign of me taking the reins and being codependent. So I do need to let go.

Bit of a ramble...


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest-
You described the LTA forum well.
For the newbies it does take a while to get into the flow of this forum but then you begin to figure it out.

You realize that a number of posters stick around and continue to check in on each other so we do have a continuity that you might not find on the other forums.

We get 'to know' each other and each other's stories and so, we can continue to offer support through the years....yes years.... (sigh)


MCJack- When it comes to how to deal with a FWS after d-day I do worry about those that are taking a very laid back or rug sweeping approach.

From my personal experience, and all of my reading in tons of books, as well as years on SI and other sites there is a pattern....

and that is if the WS is not confronted with the reality of their actions and if there are few if any consequences very often the WS continues in the affair or returns to that behavior over time.

I do think that Tryin's advice and approach can have value to those that are clearly reconciled and in a situation where the WS is remorseful and wants to work on the marriage.

But...if the WS is on the fence,still cake eating, or in the 'fog'....well...being nice and walking on egg shells does not make them commit to the marriage.

I compare it to alcoholism.
Simply stopping drinking is NOT enough. That is called a 'dry drunk'.
Its someone that has stopped drinking but did not do any work on themselves, did not attend AA or IC, didn't even do any reading or introspection to try to figure how they got the point that they did.
They still have that 'toxic thinking' or as they say in AA that 'stinking thinking'.

The spouse that thought he or she would be thrilled if the alcoholic spouse stopped drinking soon realize that many of the negative dynamics in the family are still there.

And... what is the thing that usually works best for an alcoholic to finally get sober? and finally see the light?
its hitting bottom.

it has to be a hard hit too not a delicate little tickle or a reminder....

I have a female relative that is an alcoholic. I am extremely worried about her.
Her life is going downhill in so many ways and yet no one is willing to have an intervention with her. No one wants to be the bad guy.
But, the outcome is that no one has a real relationship with her anyway.
She is detached, depressed, isolated, grouchy, unhappy etc.
Last year she had a DUI and due to the nature of her job this was huge because if she lost her license she could very well lose her job especially if they found out it was due to a DUI.

I was almost relieved because I thought this would finally be her 'bottom'.
She would have big consequences that would wake her up.
But...unfortunately what happened is that the court system treated her very gently.
They bought her damsel in distress story. they believed her when she said that she refused the breathalyzer because she was 'scared' of the cop.
They believed her when she said she was driving erratically due to all the meds she takes (which she does because her health has deteriorated to such an extent due to her drinking!).

anyway..she got off very easy...didn't lose her job, only lost her license for a short time and guess what?

she's still drinking...
and driving...

when someone is in denial about their behavior the gentle approach does not wake them and does not help them realize what they are losing.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal and others,

Follow-up questions...

WS is remorseful and wants to work on the marriage.

Yes^^^for me, and,

WS is on the fence,still cake eating, or in the 'fog'.

No^^^for me.

However, where does one find consequences other than hurt feelings:

and that is if the WS is not confronted with the reality of their actions and if there are few if any consequences very often the WS continues in the affair or returns to that behavior over time.

What might consequences be that my WW can have other than me punishing her? She knows what she did was terrible, wrong, etc. At this point she has had no consequences other than dealing with me and my pain. I don't consider NC, ending the A, going to MC, being honest, etc. as being consequences.

I know you were making a general statement, but was wondering if you had any thoughts or me in particular....?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 5:11 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was making a general statement about newbies and I do remember that your FWW is remorseful about the LTA.

Do you feel that your FWW has done enough introspection as to what led up to the affair and what she said to herself to allow it to continue for so long?

I don't think that we as BS should 'punish' the WS but we can have demands as to what we need in order to reconcile,trust again, feel safe, and heal.

For example even though we were separated my FWH made all of his passwords, cell phone bills, credit card bills etc. available to me.
That was one of my requirements.
Total transparency.

I felt that I was lied to for so many years that now I deserved to know the truth about everything.

He also answered all of my questions and gave me a detailed timeline of his 5 yr LTA.

I feel that a timeline is a very valuable thing to do-both for the BS but also for the WS.
Often, writing everything down in a timeline is the first time that the WS sees in black and white what he/she had done.
They spend so much time compartmentalizing and in a state of denial that this may be the first time they face everything.


Another thing that was important to me was my FWH going to IC and AA.

That got my attention and made me slowly warm up to the idea of R.
I was surprised that he had embarked on this road of self analysis because it was not something that he would have never done before d-day.


[This message edited by njgal480 at 5:59 PM, March 15th (Friday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you feel that your FWW has done enough introspection as to what led up to the affair and what she said to herself to allow it to continue for so long?

I do not know. It's hard to really know isn't it?

The word 'consequences' made me recall that in Linda McDonald's book (How to Help your Spouse Heal from Your Affair) she mentions that it is the natural and logical consequences to the affair which gives the WS the incentive to find and confront inner demons.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ImNellNow
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Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Consequences...
I will tell you that I needed XWH to make amends to me and our family. Acknowledge that he had stolen something of value from us and give something of value to (try to) compensate.

For me, that may have included:
* Post-nup
* Apology to everyone in the family (who up until the apology were either thinking that I was off my rocker, poor XWH, or talking behind my back)
* Giving me what he had given to the COW tenfold (spent $200 on her birthday present; spend $2,000 on mine)
* Spend all the time necessary to figure out his issues and practice learning new habits to avoid said issues in the future
* Do whatever I asked him to do to make me feel safe (within reason... and you'll have to trust me when I tell you that I was excessively reasonable)
* In addition to transparency, remorse, apologies and understanding

I needed to know that he understood that what he did was incredibly hurtful to his family and that he understood that the consequences were so severe that he would not hurt us in that way ever again. That, and realizing what led him to the LTA in the first place would have made me feel safe and valued, and thus loved.

Which would (theoretically) lead to a relationship of reciprocal positivity.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell-
Great post.
And it's great to have you back and posting in LTA!

I think your list of needs was very appropriate.

It's a shame that your WS was not able to do those things for you.


My FWH did make amends by apologizing to my children and other family members as well.
I think he did that based on suggestions in AA.
But, it was one more step that helped in my healing.


MCJack-
I agree with Linda McDonald about natural consequences for the affair.
That's why I do not agree with covering it up for the WS and protecting them from others finding out or worrying if the WS is 'upset' about the fallout.
The fallout post d-day is a natural consequence of their actions.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal,

I got the call that I was needed. Like Batman. Except far more kickassy.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As Tryn very aptly said about the LTA tribe:

One thing I do know, that someone from the tribe post here with a troubled mind, we circle the wagons.

That is what we here at LTA do best. We are a family who may not always agree on the details, but we do agree to help one another to the best of our ability.

MCJack: In trying to answer your $1M question:

What might consequences be that my WW can have other than me punishing her? She knows what she did was terrible, wrong, etc. At this point she has had no consequences other than dealing with me and my pain. I don't consider NC, ending the A, going to MC, being honest, etc. as being consequences.

MCJack: No, you do not have to punish her. From what you have told us, your WW is remorseful and is trying to help you with your pain.

BUT, from the wonderful post from NJgal:

I compare it to alcoholism.
Simply stopping drinking is NOT enough. That is called a 'dry drunk'.
Its someone that has stopped drinking but did not do any work on themselves, did not attend AA or IC, didn't even do any reading or introspection to try to figure how they got the point that they did.
They still have that 'toxic thinking' or as they say in AA that 'stinking thinking'.

The spouse that thought he or she would be thrilled if the alcoholic spouse stopped drinking soon realize that many of the negative dynamics in the family are still there

Just the WS knowing what they did was wrong and realizes how much it hurt the BS is not enough. The "consequences" are there. BUT now the REQUIREMENTS to enter into the new marriage should be some IC or MC to help the WS figure out their issues that they allowed themeselves to do what they did to someone they love.

I agree with Tryn that if the WS is remorseful and is trying their best, and the BS decides to give R a try, then the "Tryn Plan" as MC Jack put it, would be appropriate. But, still IC and MC are probably the best thing for the WS in a LTA. This is not a ONS or a short term A where one "made a stupid mistake". This is a LTA that lasted for YEARS.

Something is definitely wrong.

Even with NPD where it is "legal" in his country, it was WRONG (and illegal) to keep it a secret. All the secrecy and deceit for years with a WS is a big part of it, not just the A. There is a lot going on. As NJgal very aptly puts it, it's like a "dry drunk". The issues are still there.

NJgal: Thank you so very much for all your caring and help that you put into your posts to help us. Your wonderful support is so greatly appreciated. I know that just your kind words and caring has helped me so very much, more than you'll ever know. {{{{{NJGal}}}

Detachment got easier and I decided that there was life after marriage. I wanted those 10 years back. If my WW wasn't going to be fully engaged in the M then I was better off by myself no matter how bad I thought it might be. The unknown became more inviting than the known misery I was currently living in.

7yrs: I'm just getting to that point now. It's 3.5 years from my DDay, the first year was false R. The part I made in bold in your quote is just what I'm coming to. Miracle said to me something that stuck that I have often said I had an "aha moment" or I "saw" something, but then I went back into my shell because I could not or would not face it. The reality was too much for me to take in.

Blobette:

My life was really destroyed through no fault of my own, and now I have to live with this sense of failure (which I know is irrational) and the sense that I have a second-rate relationship, whereas before I lived in a fantasy land of thinking I had the best husband ever and I was so, so lucky

This is one of the hardest things about a LTA. It was that there was two different "realities" going on, and it's hard to reconcile it in our head. Many people on LTA have said, that YOU did live an authentic life. You were true and loyal and loved your WH, even though what you were doing was based on the fantasy that the WS was loyal and loving. That is the difficult thing to reconcile. YOU WERE TRUE and loyal. That is a fact.
Reconciling our new reality and facts is the hardest thing to do. A LTA has a lot of new info to process and can be very difficult.

So, that's about me and the stuff I need to work on

That is stuff you can share here. This thread is different. There is no "TJ" if you know what I mean. It's "group therapy" :smile

Nell: NPD is not here at the moment, but is coming back next week Supposedly he will be coming again in the summer (maybe June or July) and bringing the OC's and OW to the US for a few weeks. NOT to my house if I can help it. Legally, I don't think I can keep him from doing this if he wants to, but I have to try to be prepared. All of this is probably why I have slipped into a deep depression this past month. A lot of suicidal ideation.... a lot of FOO issues and everything coming to a head.

If it wasn't for the people here at the tribe and my crazy neighbor , I wouldn't be here, literally.

I love you all. Although I read as much as I can and don't always answer everyone's posts, I do think about you, and have you in my prayers.

{{{{Tribe}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
TrustGone
♀ Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))

I have a question about stress. I have noticed that I am having a hard time dealing with the stress from my WH#2's affair. This is making me not deal with stress over other issues and is having a domino affect on me.

I have never had a problem dealing with stress before and actually trived on stress in my job. I can't remember a time in my life that I didn't have a great deal of stress going on and it has never affected me this way. I can't concentrate for long, have to make myself leave the house to do errands, haven't worked in 1.5yrs (living off my savings),any holidays are hell for me, anything out of my new normal routine sends me in a spiral downward and it takes me days to get myself back to normal. I would like to sit and have the crying spell of my life, but I can't even cry anymore.

I am asking for meds when I see the doctor on the 28th, so hopefully that might be the answer. I hate to take meds, especially mind altering meds so I know I am desperate to get out of this funk I am in. Has anyone else experienced stress differently than they did before the affair? How or what did you do to handle it now?


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, March 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette, it's not a second-rate relationship, but it's probably a different relationship from what you wanted.

Theres some freedom in that though. Just a thought.

What might consequences be that my WW can have other than me punishing her? She knows what she did was terrible, wrong, etc. At this point she has had no consequences other than dealing with me and my pain. I don't consider NC, ending the A, going to MC, being honest, etc. as being consequences.

I agree that they're not. It's a difficult thing to accept, but the truth is that often when people cheat there are no consequences, whether they're caught or not. It's another part of the appeal. It's a calculated risk. Often people here will say, "well, it damages a marriage even if the BS doesn't know..."

Perhaps it does. Fact is though, the WS didn't want to fix or improve the marriage, if they did, they would have. Sometimes I see "I tried to improve things first (this is usually followed by a huge list of their spouse's faults, and the recitation that they tried to improve their marriage by listing said faults to spouse, insisting they stop and suggesting marriage counseling...) So, that doesn't count. You improve things, truly, by changing yourself, not your spouse.

Now, that doesn't mean you conform to the spouse and not get your needs met, be true to yourself, etc. But you make changes from your own seat of power within your own realm.

When you change how you relate to someone, they are forced to change in response.

But also, don't assume that the WS was unhappy with the marriage to start with. Many are perfectly happy with their marriage. Kind of like people who have a commuting car and a "fun" car.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

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