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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura.

I have to ask THE question. Does that outfit make my nose look too big?


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, Dip, but it makes your butt look huge!

Ah, my dear tribe, I have missed so much lately but I'll weigh in a bit randomly -- and I'm glad to "see" Nell and Dip and Miracle again.

First, my IRL new "healing house" has a little beach. the kids LOVE it. WH is slowly building an oyster reef off the pier. I'm going to get some "fucking duck" eggs this spring in honor of Laura. I suspect I will think of her lovingly and offer a prayer for her happiness whenever I play with them.

Ah, in no particular order:

ATS -- you can find those posts from 2010 if you look on page 4 of ICR. Those old LTA threads are still there.

RSEB -- "ripe for the picking" Sorry -- I'm going to call you on this one. It shows me that somehow in your mind you're a passive participant. It shows a bit of a lack of accountability. You're a woman, not an apple. I also, not that any of it's my damn business, think that this same mentality is part of the problem dynamic with your BH at present. It's reactive. Many women are socialized as children to be a bit more passive and reactive -- but we certainly don't have to continue that as adults to gain the approval of the parents that as children we are essentially dependent upon for our very lives.

As for safe/unsafe, etc. I suppose we all see LTA differently. I see it as group therapy, honestly. And because of that I believe we need to be challenged by each other.

What else caught my eye? Blame of the BS. I'm afraid I've always been immune to the "how am I to blame" question since my husband began his LTA 13 years bafore I married him. In my view it's a character flaw.

Is the affair relationship a real realationship? Of course it is. My WH and the OW attended each other's graduations, baptisims of their children, we vacationed with them, were at each other's childrens birthday parties, we attended her BH's mother's funeral (I suppose WH finally developed SOME shame -- he didn't want to go to that ) She supported him and our family through some of the worst of my initial battle with bipolar disorder. It was certainly a real relationship, and perhaps closer than my relationship with WH, then and possibly even now. And I know she loved him, and I think he loves her as well, he certainly moped enough when they went NC. It's a damn shame they didn't marry each other and leave the other ten of us out of it. (Me, her BH and the 8 children we have between the 2 families, unless they've had more, who knows?)

But, there you go.

Hmnn. I saw a few other things I wanted to comment on.

To those of you who are much newer here on LTA -- no matter what your "this long since Dday" you're certainly hurting more than those of us who have been here longer, but I want you to know that if YOU want it to get better, it will get better, bit by bit, no matter WHAT your spouse does or does not do.

And a special note to our lone WS, RSEB -- please don't let whatever guilt you feel about what you did then cloud your image of who you are today. I certainly don't want my worth to be permanently defined by my worser moments, nor should it be, and that goes for all of us. I know I said to OW and WH that they had done a terrible, hurtful thing and been crappy spouses, but that certainly didn't prevent them from waking up and deciding to be good spouses from that point on.

I struggle very much still with anger and resentment. I still have not found a way to overcome this. I often wonder if the only way to find peace with it is to leave the marriage. I don't know. I still think of it often. That is my struggle. Last night The Pharoah and I stayed up a bit late and I had so much fun with him. We watched a couple of shows we like, cracked jokes, made weird things out of LEGOS. It was fun and very spontaneous. I can't give those things up. Say all you want about "quality time" with children -- Quantity time is darned important too.

Anyway, if anyone (anyone?) who is still married is not angry anymore, help me out.

Be at peace, friends. I know I'd like to be.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What else caught my eye? Blame of the BS. I'm afraid I've always been immune to the "how am I to blame" question since my husband began his LTA 13 years bafore I married him. In my view it's a character flaw.

m334455 - I feel the same way as my WW OM1 was there even before we started dating. The difference in my situation is I never knew this person existed, it was a completely secret life. My question to you is how do you get through the fact that you never even knew your spouse when there wasnt ever an A. That's how I feel, I can't even dial back to a time when it was just us because that time never existed. I have never known my WW when she wasnt cheating. How do you know if you will even like the new person they are trying to become if you never knew them without.

And to fess up (I will duck when the 2 x 4s start flying) I haven't stopped my WW relationship with OM2. It's complicated - OM2 lives in another state so it isnt frequent. Unlike OM1, I know this person very well and know this person is not a threat that my WW would ever leave me. OM2 started as a A that my WW turned into a swinger relationship after it started - I have put things on hold on my activities though just cause I'm not into it anymore really due to what I learned afterwards. I think part of the reason I haven't stopped OM2 is because I dont know my WW with just me and fear her leaving me more that way than just letting OM2 be as I know that situation is not a threat to her leaving me. How's that for some messed up thinking? Ugh.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone,

I am at work and i just read your post Panda, I have like 2 minutes right now but I had to write one quick thing in response to this:

And to fess up (I will duck when the 2 x 4s start flying) I haven't stopped my WW relationship with OM2. It's complicated - OM2 lives in another state so it isnt frequent. Unlike OM1, I know this person very well and know this person is not a threat that my WW would ever leave me. OM2 started as a A that my WW turned into a swinger relationship after it started - I have put things on hold on my activities though just cause I'm not into it anymore really due to what I learned afterwards. I think part of the reason I haven't stopped OM2 is because I dont know my WW with just me and fear her leaving me more that way than just letting OM2 be as I know that situation is not a threat to her leaving me. How's that for some messed up thinking? Ugh.

PANDA, YOU ARE NOT SECOND CHOICE!!!...PLEASE DO NOT LET YOUR WW CONTINUE THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH OM, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR HIM IN YOUR M. You are allowing him to remain out of fear, not good my friend. Do not live like this, with the mind set that you cannot live without your WW. YOU ARE A KIND MAN AND YOU DESERVE TO BE IN A COMMINTED M...you all do.

And M333...I will respond when I have more time later on.

Have a good day everyone.
RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP ~ I will not touch your situation as I have no understanding of "swinger" relationships. It isn't something I can relate to at all.

However, I do understand how one can be betrayed in those kind of relationships (i.e. breaking the rules that were set in the beginning), though. And, if your WW broke the rules that were established with OM2 than there should be NC, imo, with OM2.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:35 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8950 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks RSEB & Sister

Maybe I should define OM2 situation a little better. I call it a "swinger" as I think that is maybe the best way you can understand it but I can assure you it is not really a "normal" swinger relationship as I now understand them. I would say most that participate in that lifestyle those type are relationships are primarily physical with very little emotional attachment involved. To put it more coldly say some couples enjoy going to the movies, well these couples into that type of lifestyle go to the club or whatever instead were they swing.

My situation with OM2 is not really anything like a typical swinger couple situation. I think it really was a way that my WW could have an A without having to go through all the difficulty that a typical WS goes through of hiding the A. OM1 was a straight up LTA, I never knew that person and it lasted 12 years - OM1 was a boyfriend to WW before I knew her. When OM1 moved away and the LTA could no longer continue is when the situation with OM2 started. My WW's As all seam convenient and were likely not difficult to set-up and continue if that makes any sense. Maybe all A's are like that but my WW didn't have to go to great lengths to find people to have an A with. Prior to me as I now know my WW had a history of cheating before me. It seems to be a pattern she has always known.

RSEB

"with the mind set that you cannot live without your WW"

For me it is less that I cannot live without my WW and far more that I can't live without being a daily part of my kids lives. I am strongly independant minded type person - but my kids are everything. The whole OM2 situation does not bother me in the least, I am not jealous or concerned of my WW running away with OM2. Strangely my WW and I have always had an excellent strong M, we really don't have many issues outside of this whole LTA thing. Apparently unknown to me though, I have never been in a fully committed relationship in my life though so maybe I don't know what I am missing out on.

[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 1:11 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyway, if anyone (anyone?) who is still married is not angry anymore, help me out.

I am interested in the answer to this one as well. Even though I am getting divorced I know as soon as she moves out there will be a major detoxing of my system and I don't want anything to do with her. I have to deal with her because of the kids but the resentment has been steadily brewing over the last few weeks as S and D become a reality. We hopefully go sign the initial Separation agreement this Wednesday. I have basically been 180ing since I went to see the L but I am still going to be in the house with her until she moves out this summer.

I have been hanging out with my brother and friends doing what I want to keep busy and be okay but the closer we get to signing papers and her moving out the more the anger seems to seep back in. I just want the whole mess to be over with but it never truly will be because I have to deal with her because of the kids for the rest of my life. There is no way to completely cut her out of my life. I am hoping it will get better with time and distance but it doesn't seem like it right now.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 1:43 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunitedpanga,

you said
When OM1 moved away and the LTA could no longer continue is when the situation with OM2 started.

I believe your DDay was oct of 2012. That is still fairly recent as this rollercoaster goes. Has your WW gone to IC? or you two MC? My point is exacty what you wrote, she went from the SECOND OM when she could no longer get her validation or high from OM#1. There ARE issues underlying this.

In my M I obviously spent the 6 years in my LTA avoiding the issues that were in my M. I was and find myself still afraid to appoach and face these issues head on, but I do, which is causing a whole new set of issues. For example my BH yells/gets excited/loud very quickly, it can be over anything. I have told him it is nerve racking to talk to him because I don't know when he will "start yelling" over what for most is nothing. We had an instance last night, it boiled down to a misunderstanding/miscommunication. However he took the conversation into "you can't say you were wrong". I told him why does it have to come to who is wrong and who is right. I said why does it have to put us one against the other. I didn't and still don't understand his reasoning. He does it quite often. Anyway we got into a conversation about him and his yelling. He was SCREAMING by then, "you don't f'n get it, I am gonna yell, I have always yelled and you have to get used to it and not take it personally". I told him I do, and most people would and don't like to get yelled at. He said that I wasn't going to change him. I said that I don't want to change him, but that I am working on myself and he can work on himself. Now I don't think I am being unreasonable. But that is my point, in the past, I would have kept quiet, now my BH "thinks" I am doing this to "assert myself" like I am better then him. See, another battle I have to fight. All the years of things I was able to not face because of my distraction. The MOM made me feel better, now it is my job to make myself feel better, follow my gut, and get what I deserve...the only problem is, I still find myself afraid and trying to put one foot in front of the other.

Your WW needs to put her efforts into herself, not distract herself with anyone else. The OM#2 does not belong there, this is a journey for JUST the two of you, no detours allowed.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have never known my WW when she wasnt cheating. How do you know if you will even like the new person they are trying to become if you never knew them without.

I don't know. You don't. You don't even know if she'll stop cheating -- or only stop for a while then begin again. The only person you can control is yourself.

I don't think a WS becomes a different person. I don't want my WH to morph into some other guy. I just want him to have enough respect for himself and for me to quit his crappiest behaviors as much as possible. If he wants to be with someone else -- have at it. It would probably be the death of our marriage at this point, but that's his choice. He's a grown man, he knows what he's doing.

I like my husband. I'm happy to see him. I feel affectionate towards him and I care about him and I also love him. Not the way I used to. But that was his choice. If he doesn't like the result of his choices, perhaps he'll make better choices with other people in his life in the future.

Anyway, R is a crapshoot at best. At least at first.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ReunitePangea

Tryn I hope the last couple of days of posts on here have not scared you away. Often I have felt ignored in the LTA forum and not part of the group, except Tryn has read everything I write and responds with such great thought out responses. While I don't agree with every post I am able to form my own opinions on my situation with his insight. Don't stop the amazing things you do Tryn, you are appreciated.

Thank you RP.. Of course that builds my ego.. lol.. You may not agree with everything I might say, but you want to be where I am at in my M.

Me? Scared? I have fears but I have courage. When I am not around, I am loving myself, my W, my family, friends or job. That’s all. I pay it forward hoping to keep people move forward in grief until my next obsession.

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:57 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB -- there is a book you should read. "Too Good to Leave, too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kirschenbaum.

The more I read your posts -- the more I think you might be best off as one of those people who has an A and winds up with neither the AP nor the BS.

Your BH seems like a real jackass, IMHO.

No one should be walking on eggshells in their relationship.

Well, I still don't have a response to my question, but thanks for what y'all have shared thusfar.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle - Thank you for that most powerful post.

This is how YOU deal with pain and how YOU decide to R or not.

the first...your ws does everything he can to show you who he is now without giving you grief about any of it......its really important that he understands that you need him to "get it", that you need to "feel" his remorse, "see" his remorse and finally believe his remorse

The second....you have to want it, choose to do whatever it takes to achieve it and commit to it 100%.....
And this is when YOU must decide to change.

H&C.. That list is brief and vague. And perhaps YOU left out the most important part

Iwant points out…

My own self discovery she points out? Guilty as charged!

as for "we teach people how to treat us"....( i love dr phil btw(ME TOO iwant but I like Dr Jenn far better)),..i agree and that goes for ourselves too..we need to teach ourselves to treat our bodies and minds better...improve our inner dialogue to reflect what we dream, what we choose for our future....how we often talk to ourselves dictates what we are willing to accept from others.....we have to change that inner dialogue to reflect that we are good people who deserve the best in all aspects of life....and thats where it starts..

Iwant just told me I was the blame for my spouses A. Humm as this relates to me...

I allowed my W to give me sex once every 2 weeks when my sexuality is 2-3 times a week.
I allowed my W a man to enter her personal world.
I allowed my W while she was in her process of her bad, to put me in my place and accept her bad treatment of me so I ran… ignored it, buried it… it was not safe… I did not confront.
I allowed my W to contact her OM on 15-20 minutes calls while I only talked with her 5 minutes after 2 days of not being around her.
I allowed.. the list is far more.
Like some post that followed.. What we “allowed.”
My post are about YOU empowering yourself to free YOU. I is an attitude, “here was something about ME and now I must change.” You can change to have a M were you not longer worry about being disqualified by your spouse.

Once you know quality yourself, then are you qualified be the one who disqualifies. A quality person takes steps toward giving others a chance to make the decision to change.

If you don’t change, YOU will likely be disqualified over and over. Because once you do start a new relationship, everyone is at their best behaviors until those mask come down. Be prepared! You must know quality. And quality may not be what you think it is.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:16 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3.. I no longer am angry or bitter at my W.

Although… The other night we went out to dinner with one of my customers who is also a now a friend. We have known each other for eight years now. He is single and his GF just, out of the blue, broke off their relationship. He was dating a few new woman and telling us about them My wife digs those kinds of discussion.

So may wife made some sort of comment about.. “of course me and tryn been married for over 28 years. We haven’t dated anyone for years..”

My wife triggered me. I thought to myself, No, I have not dated anyone for years. You just ended a relationship 4.5 years ago… and it lasted 9 years!.

I’m not really bitter or angry. It was just a thought.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to share my life today.

My wife is the most beautiful lady today. It’s no wonder.

Every morning I bring my wife coffee. She always gives me a peck when I do it. I might just sit on side of the bed sometime to see what is going on today. I listen. I might give her a quick neck rub.

One of the biggest changes I made was to make sure I try to always build my wife up. I try hard never to be critical. I use many words to affirm my wife and I do it everyday. To approve and affirm you W and kids everyday is THAT important. I do it in such a way it flows in my normal conversation. I try hard not to criticize her on the phone, at home or everywhere. I try hard to never cuss around her or cut others down. I thank her. I give her not too many I love you’s, just the right amount.

My W fills my needs. It is her choice. I do this by sticking to what “I want”. She takes it as criticism. She can take it anyway she wants. I don’t argue or debate. I tell her what I want and she gives it to me or not. The more important that need is she does not fill, the more pressure she will get. It will be her own choice to change. I do this by sticking to what “I want”. On some things, I compromise.. if her need is that strong.


When she begins to get very negative about her job, I never try to fix anything nor tell her what she should or should not do. A critical mistake many men make. I just listen. I might sometimes try and lead her to a better place. “One day honey, we will be retired and I will look back at all the hard work you have done in great appreciation, I think Tampa would be good… ”

She calls me almost everyday before she goes to lunch to let me know what’s going one. This is her choice to be transparent. A boundary I once never enforced. She just thought I didn’t care. I might invite her to lunch or she might invite me. She comes home after work about the same time everyday. Should that ever change her plans, she calls me.

I travel a lot. Some day trips, some overnight. I bring her these stupid gifts for my trips. She laughs about them. Every greeting we kiss. I sometimes just grab her and make out with her at that time. I never forget V-day, her B-day and Christmas. I put thought in every gift. I never forget.

Most nights, I will pour her or she pours me a glass of wine. We will just sit and talk to each other for sometimes an hour, sometime 10-15 minutes. I always slip in nice words about her and to approve her and affirm her. When I listen very closely, she does the same for me. I listen. It is part of our natural conversation. We solve family problem at this time. I might compromise, she compromises. It is all done in an “matter of fact way” When it gets too deep, emotions start to be not good, I lead her out, I lead myself out.

Most times my wife will fix dinner. I always make a point if I am not busy does she needs me to help, chop something up. Sometimes in the morning, I will invite her to dinner at a restaurant so we don’t have to fix it, or I will offer to make dinner, on my own without her having to ask me.

When we go to dinner, you might look at us and we are telling each other stories, discussing politics, whatever. We are not the couple you see looking around at dinner in awkward silence. I try always to grab her door. I might offer to get her coat. I make sure I compliment the waitress staff on the fine job they did. I always pay. I don’t look around at other women in the restaurant. I will always slip something in to woo her. I take her to different conversations all the time. I try hard to avoid complaining about my job, and others. I am very good at staying way from words that criticize anyone.

And the hardest thing in any relationship is conflict. When my wife makes a mistake or acts in bad behavior, I bring on conflict in such a way just to let her know I want her to stop it. I don’t want you to do that. I am stellar to the best of my ability myself, I don’t do it, so you stop it. You cannot be a hypocrite. At first there are no consequences, they might be implied, but I will lay on the consequences should it ever get that far. My wife rarely takes it that far, she does not like conflict. No matter if she wants to treat me well or not, she is going to treat me well and she is going to fill my needs. And I have developed something about me that when I conflict, I do not criticize. It is always an invitation to join me. It is about me. It is her choice to fill my needs or not. If she makes the choice to not fill my needs, she is going to get pressure and conflict in the form a comment about reciprocity or consequences. It is going to be in a way to force her to make a choice. Either I am going to have to accept that choice.. or.. not. I have always learned to “reset” the moment so she will feel safe. That is super important. If you run away, you teach your spouse to run away. Don’t it. Take a break.. make sure THEY know you take a break but will be back with a new attitude. Be very careful how you conflict, it is that important in all relationships.


Yes, Nell, my wife is going to “submit” to me. She is going to open up to me and I am going to know her most inner feeling and thought. I take them all in both the good and bad. I work on the bad that is my job and I insist on only good from her, always her choice though.. She is going to submit to me because I submit to her. If she does not like the bad feelings or thoughts I have, does not want to work toward the better of the M, and me, there is not much I can do. I make sure she has a fair chance. By the time my pressure ends and I have had enough.. our M will be way over before that point.

My wife wants to shut down to protect herself and feel safe. I must then open her up and sometimes it takes conflict to open her up. It must be done is way so I don’t offend her or drive her back under her shell. I may have to say things, do thing to in a soft way, safe way, so she will open to me. I understand to be intimate we both must submit and both must not punish each other into silence.

I must think hard about what I did when she correct me. I want her to correct me. I want her to be a bitch when I deserve it. I want her to conflict with me. I try hard to think about what I did and I apologize. As much I might defend my actions for good reason, must understand her reasons. But, I must always think about this… just because one person does it one way, everything can be done differently. Just because one way is better than the other, the end result may be the same. Sometimes, it should not matter.


My wife is a conflict avoider like most folks. I sometimes bring the conflict out of her much like I have done with you fine folks. I sometimes do it with more loving ways. I do it so she can be most intimate with me. I must never fear knowing her inner thoughts and feelings. I want her to “submit” to me her greatest fears, her inner feelings, so I may then behave in the most loving way. I want her to be open so I try to avoid shutting her down and know sometimes it takes some uncomfortable conversation to open her up.

I do my part around the house that includes more than just cooking dinner. I try hard to just empty the trash without her asking. If I spill something on the floor, I sweep it up, I don’t wait for her to be my maid. I do my own chores around the house. I respect my wife not only in this way and I don’t tell her how she should do her job, how to handle others, I let her decide on her own to do her own thing. My wife is not my slave. But I must always do my job first. I finish things when I start. I don’t leave things undone.

I am not her pool boy. If I am doing my chores, I expect her to do hers. She should not expect I jump at her beckoning call. She must sometimes do it herself.

I let her have girl friends. I understand woman need to have GF to discuss housewife of LA things. That fulfills whatever that need most every woman has. If you woman does not have GF, you have a problem. A woman needs other woman GF.

I avoid addictions. I try not to fall into the pressure other place on me to get caught in that trap. I make those people not part of my life. I will not accept my kids, my wife or any friend being a drunk. The will feel pressure from me, I will try and help them free themselves for that addiction, but I don’t accept it, not one bit! Sure, I will feel pain eliminating those from my life, but addicted people will bring YOU down.

I take the pain. I cry on my own (it’s been awhile) and do not call myself a baby. I know it is good for our brains. I cry for others. I understand pain. I share my pain with those who want to be intimate with me. But never share my pain to my W to make them feel guilty. It gets to a point where it is not attractive. I am just beyond that point. That took a long time. I try to never tell people how they should feel. Not my W, not my kids, not my friends.

Pain is part of life. It is a given. I will face more pain in my life and I will take it like a man. I will get sick and die one day. I am at peace with it. People I care about will die. I can love myself enough to protect myself from others who may cause me pain.

I try my best to be positive. To see the good in evil is not easy for me. My positive is to dig deep and eliminate evil from my world. I do it with a plan. I build my courage in steps to execute the plan. I accept the things I cannot change and accept that with time my plan will be executed. Once I eliminate the evil from my world, I do not let that evil back in. I walk away for that evil. I see evil as an opportunity to improve my life, not take me down further. I pull myself out of evil with actions, I do not stand still. I can say this today because I have become a different man. I have looked enough at myself to know I was not what I should be. When I met my wife, she was always nice, caring, loving, and was lost in her own way too for horrible things that happen to her. It does not matter what happen to her, she is part of my world now. I can’t undo her past nor our past. I can only work on now.

My W lets me do man things. She is not going to take away the thing I enjoy. I insist on it. Fishing, golfing.. sports. An I let her do her woman things.

We do many things together. I try to mix things up every month to do something new and different. We might to game, we might go to a play, we might go to a movie, we might go to a comedy club, we might go to the casino, etc. I make myself interesting. Sometimes the best things are the things that turn out not so pleasant but this can bring funny memories to both laugh about. I try hard to keep her young. We are around others that are fun.

I work and make a good wage. I try hard not to complain about problems at work, but I will share the stories at work. I never place my work in front of my wife. I NEVER PLACE MY WORK in front of important things going on with my wife despite her saying..Go ahead.

I pay attention when she is sick. I am there for her by offering to be there when she has even minor things. I offer to take her to the doctor. I check on her. I touch her. I am there if she needs me.

I make a point to romance my wife. It might start in the morning or lunch. It might be a sexy story. I might be with a funny toy and joke. It might be with a long make-out kiss teasing her. A woman needs us to make out with her. I think it takes about 4-5 seconds for a chemical to be released. I give her time to settle down after coming home, but I keep her interested. I flirt. If she rejects my invitation, I always invite, I try hard not be disappointed, because I know she will give me sex anther day soon. I might just ravisher her sometimes. I never trade for sex, I never accept a limp dead blow up doll. I have stopped in the middle. I tell her want I want and how to do it. I accept a push back when she is not in the mood. If she ever chooses not to give me her sex, I look at ME first. Am I being romantic enough, am I giving enough. I understand I need sex and my wife really needs it only when I need it. That is usually with every woman.

At very rare times, my W will romance me, if she does not finish what she started, I finish it. I know as a man I must initiate. My wife is not an initiator. I am ok with that.

I give to charity and serve my community by serving on Boards of Directors. I give my talent to those men in need of help with damage relationship. I earn my respect from my W because she sees me for helping others. I try to be a model man in our society. I earn my W’s respect enough she comes to me for advice. I take my W’s advice.

I touch my wife often whether she knows it or not. It might be my hand gliding across her back. It is a hug. It is my hip glancing by her. It is a kiss. A back rub free expecting nothing in return many times.

Yes UK, I have forgiven my W. I forgive her my never making her feel guilty. I try hard never to reminder of her failures. I try hard to keep this bad within myself. I do this so SHE does not disqualify herself from giving to me. My best friend is usually my vent and he is a friend of my M, not an enemy. And, I let go the bitterness. It’s a so what attitude. I have the power within myself after the process of months and months of trying hard not to make my wife feel guilty, to now know that pain and keep now control within. It is not hard these days. I can easily take my mind to another place. It is my brain, not anyone else. It came with continued focus on ME and my own behaviors.

When my wife is successful at anything, I make sure I recognize her. I recognize my adult kids. I recognize my W’s family’s accomplishments. I recognize her friend’s successes. My friends, my co-workers.

I try and make my wife laugh. I’ll tell her funny stories that happened to me, others, share a joke.

I don’t waste my money. I don’t buy play things I cannot afford. I have a personal responsibility to my kids, my W, my way of life. I fight hard never to over-extend myself. I have never done it. It cost me extra to protect myself with insurance to avoid disasters. I pay it and sacrifice things many people think are more important. I respect my W needing her play things. I don’t allow her to spend our money we cannot afford. I expect my W to control my own greed at any expense of our M or family. I am completely transparent in our wealth. I seek input on how we invest from my W. I expect her to contribute for our future. I give our money to help others. I give it is such a way I feel it will be best used to better others. I expect others to respect my gifts.

I have had people steal $10,000’s from me no different then my W stealing love from me. I take personal responsibility for that happening and have changed myself to understand risk. I mitigate those risk. I take preventive measures. I know bad things happen in life. With risk can come failure, but also great reward sometimes. I spend extra time calculating those risks in both my business and personal life. Once I make the choice, I leave it in God’s hands. I can only control the choices and decision I make.

I try hard to give my employer what they need to make money. I try to do the best job and balance my own personal happiness along with that. I take criticism because that is what business managers do. I try and give them what they want to the best of my ability. I owe that to my family and my W.

I dress nice on many occasions. I went and bought a man cologne to wear on special occasion. Sometimes, I wear a jacket just to out-dress other men. I make myself above other men.

No, I don’t track my W. My own boundaries protect me. I am keenly aware when I am not being loved and I address it. Plus, If she wants to go down that path again, so what. I will hurt for a short time only. Nobody want a chip implanted in their own body and be tracked. I know I need my freedom, and I respect my W’s own personal freedom.

I believe in a higher power. I am not afraid to grab my W’s hand and say an occasional prayer. I respect her faith no matter how strong or weak. I am not pushy in my faith. It is the right amount.

And the most import part of all the above is.. YOU must do the above day in and day out. YOU must be consistent. Not so easy as I have tried for about a year now.

I leave all change up to my W. I do not try and fix her. She is invited to join all that I give to her. This is all her choice. I must be attractive and that is all I can do. If I am doing the best of my ability, that is all I can do. I don’t fault her for choosing her own path in life. It is her life, not mine. She can join me or not.

My ego is a belief. My ego ends my grief. Life is full of good and bad. Nice and mean. Accidents and intent. I take full responsibility for my own actions and that is all I can do. I can only control the things I do, not others. All the things I do in life are the consequences of my own personal decisions, whether I was aware of them or not. And if life does not go according to plan, such is life. I continue to move on not allowing myself to fall into depression and stay in grief. I end it.

I know this about me and many others who have helped my outside this forum. YOU become quality, your feelings will resolve themselves. I repeat, you be quality, your grief will end, your feelings will resolve themselves. You might have fear, but you will have courage, confidence and know your good will always come. Attractive people attract other attractive people. So therefore, beyond all else, you must be attractive.

Can you see how you can empower yourself and leave the bitterness behind you?

I don’t need my W. I can be happy on my own. I can also pick thousands of different women who would love to have the man I describe above. I am confident and very well schooled beyond what my parents taught me. And I am sure I have a few more things to learn. Execution really is the hard part.

If my W wants to join who I am today.. Fine come join me. It is the gift I give her and my children. This is no mask I wear like everyone wears during courtship. This is now burned into me. And she knows today, I no longer accept mediocrity and just accept unloving behaviors. I am going to be in a MUTUALLY loving, caring, giving, intimate and sexual M.

I attribute my working on myself ended up resolving my feelings.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:30 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3.. I was kind of a jackass and changed.

Nell called me a jackass under her breath when I say she should SUBMIT.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:23 PM, March 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow Tryn, you are quite the quality man, if I batted for the other team I would want you, lol.

RSEB - I agree with some of what M3 observed. As a BH myself, while right now I have a fair amount of anger for what my WW did, I have never yelled or raised my voice during this whole thing. I have gone out of my way even when I told her that I knew to not yell or scream about it. I don't think it does any good. Now my WW has lost some control in our M, to be fair though I had granted my WW freedoms well beyond what I ever should have. I used to not even know what she did at times. Once she stayed out to past 3 in the morning (bars close at 2) and I never even asked where she was. Those type of freedoms are gone for her but no yelling is involved. I feel if I yell and scream all I do is create a place that my WW does not want to live in and that doesnt get me anywhere close to where I want to be. Your BH can be angry without yelling and screaming.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well ReunitePangea.. most of those things I listed are things might you already do. You have an advantage over me... you are calm. I never was that man and allow myself to get rattled. Not these days.

I can't live without being a daily part of my kids lives.
I can respect that.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has your WW gone to IC?

No, she has not so far. I have suggested that she should go. Like others who made mistakes on Dday that you would have done differently if you knew better I did to. I should have made this a requirement for her, I still can but I havent yet.

or you two MC?

No, we haven't at all. I guess we could but to me it seems like punishment for me as I didn't do anything wrong, it is her issues that need fixing not mine. Yea, yea I know, typical stupid guy thinking. Also, we are both pretty content with our M as a whole I feel. In our case its not like she started the LTA half way in our M to avoid issues, it just always has been there since day one.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette-
Glad that you posted again after such a long break.
I agree with you!

Co-dependent definitely described the old me!

I am the oldest of 4 kids and was the surrogate mother starting at age 14 because I had a BPD/alcoholic mother.

And then...living with my FWH-a functional alcoholic throughout our marriage like you-I gave and gave and gave....

and he got a pass to detach and do his own thing whenever the pressure got too much for him...he also knew that I would hold down the fort with the house, family,kids, my job.

I was the 'reliable' wife.

The MOW was the 'fun kinky drinking buddy'.

The main reason that I agreed to R was due to the change in him. And that change brought about a new and much improved marriage.

Like you I would not settle for less.

Laura- I love all of your pics! Thanks for posting them again.
I love the dream cloud pic....
and those parrots are gorgeous.

Reunite- I would not be able to continue to R if I knew that there was an OW still in the picture.
Does your wife see this OM?
Are they in a PA now?
How does that make you feel?

M33 and 7 yrs-
anger.... hmmm.. it took me years to get to a peaceful place.
I was on that emotional roller coaster ride for over 4 yrs post d-day and would cycle through all the 5 stages of grief (as described by Elizabeth Kübler-Ross).

Kubler-Ross states that when a person (or a survivor) is faced with the reality of impending death or another extreme, awful fate, he/she will experience a series of emotional "stages": denial; anger; bargaining; depression; and, acceptance (in no specific sequence).

I think that all of the BS cycle through these emotions but the sequence and length of time we spend in each stage is different for all of us.

I think that it was only when I finally reached the acceptance stage that I finally started to let go of the anger.

For years after d-day- I would think of an aspect of the LTA and shake my head and say... I can't believe that my husband did that!


and then...
are the LTA relationships real?

well...once again the answer is different for every BS/WS.
all of the relationships really happened but were they all 'real romances"?

and the answer is No.

In some cases there were emotions involved and lots of contact, in others the LTA lasted for years but there was no 'love connection' between the affair partners.

No sharing of their lives outside of the affair bubble.

In my FWH's case he and the MOW shared a real toxic,unhealthy, relationship, definitely not a fairy tale romance of any kind.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, March 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

laura: thank you so much for the pictures......and the kind words.....

i too would love for you to pass on to strong my absolute happiness for her...

ok pangea: in no way shape and form can any marriage succeed when there are more then 2 people.....with exception to those people who BOTH openly agree and negotiate polygamy or and "open" marriage....and personally i don't agree with either....i believe that a marriage should be sacred and only between 2 people....anytime other people are brought in you will have complications......complications that can be extremely hurtful to one or others...

its a set up for hurt...


tryn: first and foremost, in no way shape and form did i say you were responsible for your wifes"a"....she is solely responsible for that poor choice.....your choice was in accepting less then what you needed and not seeking the help of counselling ...it is solely on your wife that she sought out her needs in another man instead of talking to you, going to counselling with you, going to retrovaille with you BEFORE she made her poor choices.....

as for teaching ourselves how to treat ourselves...there are many who have a destructive inner dialogue, and that would include blaming yourself for your spouses choices....

and as for being a good husband/wife...well not for nothing but take a good look at honest...she was a terriffic wife, as was I.....we both loved our spouses unconditionally....and yet we still got socked!!!!!

in most instances when one person is not getting their needs met and they go outside the marriage to do so......its because of something within themselves lacking...the ability to do the right thing, to try and fix it the right way.....i was one of those people.....and look at what happened there...i didn't cheat...he did.....he was never faithful from the getgo!!!! she was married.....so it matters not what your part in the marriage is when you are the bs......

and when you use the word "submit"...i see a leather wearing whip snappin badass!!!

people should never "submit" but rather join in and and do whatever it is your doing together....

and tryn i am so happy that you are happy....the only thing that still sticks out to me and has from way back when is that you do not share your fears and conflicts within with your wife because you are afraid of how she will take it, because you know that she will take it as critisism...so you are dealing with it "alone" instead of with your partner...and im sorry but i believe that our "ws"s need to be able to hear them, listen to them and reassure us as necessary......afterall most of them carried on with their affair partners alot longer than that might be needed......

it also cannot be a life sentence for the ws.....so i agree that it shouldn't go on forever.....the ws, if truley remorseful should be willing to give to their bs that time they need to process the anger.....the anger needs an outlet, while i dont believe that the anger needs to be directed AT the ws, the ws should still know that the bs is still processing....keeping secrets is a major nono...especially about fears, most if not all anger is based in fear!!!...and that is where counselling comes in.......a 3rd party to teach them how to communicate these fears without slammin each other.....teach them how to talk, how to fight fairly and how to deal with the enormity of there sich.....

hello m3...love your beachy thing...and love that you love legos....it was a favorite with my kids and me....and quality time with the kids tops all of it!!!! and the fucking ducks eggs totally sent me roarin...

...oh dip.....i have missed you and your humor!!! i have missed everyone's humor


((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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