I don't believe that was the case from the beginning but I do think that over time the LTAs could become routine.
In my FWH's case she was a co-worker so they got together in very predictable ways-twice a year work conferences, 2 other times per year for overnight work trips and then there were every other month after work happy hours with other co-workers and this would end with a BJ in the bar parking lot for him.
All very strange if you ask me.
Not at all what my dating experience was like with him or with anyone for that matter!
Yeah, doesn't sound very romantic, does it ?
My H was an expert at compartmentalizing. He didn't think of her at home, rarely texted or called from home; she was a part of his "work" box. He behaved the same at home, was never mean, and since he takes emergency calls and tied his rondevous to those I never suspected a thing. Perhaps at the beginning, when they were meeting twice weekly for a few weeks, then every week or two for several months I would have suspected, but I had just become a partner. I remember clearly how supportive he was during this time. Later, it was every few weeks up to several months between, so easy to not notice. If he hadn't gotten a DUI and the notice came and listed what road he was on I doubt I would have ever known.
I'm glad he didn't rewrite marital history or bad mouth me to OW, but it's a bit disturbing that his conscience didn't bother him a bit more! He had his own unwritten rules; never slept over, even when the were at the same conference once (actually I think this was at least partly because she talked constantly and she annoyed him!), she never came to our house, even when I was out of town ( interestingly, he didn't even tell her the two times I went to visit my folks and did not go see her while I was gone), he never gave her a gift (apparently she would pout for weeks after her birthday), no contact at all on holidays or our trips, no dates out, no talk of emotion and talk about the future was all in the negative ( I'll never leave my wife or family). I was getting ready to disparage these rules, but actually, for someone as broken as he was, I realize he was trying to be loyal in his own way.
But I am still waiting for him to figure out what he got out of this. I know they say there's no such thing as bad sex, but to betray the wife you love for bad sex makes no sense. Of course the numerous calls and texts during the day, although mostly his holding her hand professionally, were way too numerous and also a betrayal. We both wonder if that was what he was mostly getting out of it; the self esteem boost. He has admitted having a much lower self esteem than he lets on.
Anyway, that got a lot longer than I planned; just ruminating.
and yes, routine, habit ...just another meeting...its just what you do after a time without a second thought...and i think because they were already doing it for so long, it was easier to do it then not....its actually an issue most people have with coping comforts like eating things that are no good for you...you always tell yourself, just one more time and then i will be good....and it never is JUST one more time...it just leads to the next..
and then add in that we bs's never caught on...it made it easy
And throw in conflict avoidance and threats and continuing is just easier. Although on Dday #2 it had been 2 months since they had been."together", she had gotten more insistent and strident in calls/texts (breaking the rules by calling at home and if he didn't answer she would call every few seconds--then scream and cry that if he didn't take her calls she would tell). Clearly she was getting desperate as he was getting progressively more distant.
Again, lots of fun, eh?
And my FWH never saw the OW when I was out of town.
I have lots of email evidence and in one the MOW sounds drunk and extremely pathetic where she says she is tired of begging to give him a BJ (but she didn't state it that delicately).
Then she goes on to say that she was angry that he didn't want to go out for drinks when she knew he had nowhere to go.
When I checked the email date I realized that I was away at the time.
My FWH could not remember the details but did say he never discussed me with her but she did at times overhear conversations he had with other co-workers and in this case he may have told another co-worker I was away.
He never allowed her into our house.
That was one of his 'rules'.
Another thing they did was never change the rendezvous location for the BJs-it was always the same bar parking with other co-workers inside for happy hour.
I kept trying to figure out why a woman would agree to something like this.
And decided that she just went along with whatever she got.
She wanted the attention, the ego boost, the power that she felt as she got married men to cheat on their wives.
Meanwhile, my FWH did not want to vary the location because then it would seem like a date.
They could have agreed to meet at many other bars and have much more privacy but they did not go anywhere other than the usual place.
The after work watering hole.
The same routine time after time.
So in his mind he was going out for drinks with co-workers and if the OW happened to give him a BJ then it just happened it was not a planned thing?
thankfully for some of you they get smart...and do smart...
heart you have a pm
Let's hope smarter is forever!
About them having 'rules'.
So many similarities I see as well. The LTA was based on being a distraction by design so as to not interfere with or hurt the M, and also make these once or twice a year work conferences more 'fun'. So many empty promises, huh? So really the LTA was just a sick, secret game...and all games have 'rules'. When broken, including a day, the game is over.
I am reaching the part of the acceptance phase where you see in a more honest way what your prize is for going through this shit. Not feeling good...no reason other than what is going on between my ears.
Someone suggested how dealing with infidelity is a huge moral test. I wonder what a passing grade is.
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:21 PM, May 4th (Saturday)]
I am hoping mine is a M with a whole, healthy partner. Is that unrealistic?
I did have a confrontation with my husband after listening to my recordings. He told her he missed her and that he loved her, etc. the usual fog stuff.
After visiting my dad in the hospital and listening to his crap I walked they the door and woke him up. I just said the simple words, "I want a divorce". I told him I don't want to fight, there is no need. I told him I just wanted to figure a simple way to get it done that was best for us financially and for our kids. I didn't see any need to carry on this farce any longer. I was very calm and unemotional, I was done. Just end the misery and get out. He reacted with venom. He knew I didn't care and was panicked. Usually he threatens to it ell the kids and I panic. This time I just asked he wait til the weekend as that there was no need to wake up the kids. He was scared and woke up our son and told him I was throwing their father out. This got a reaction from me! I walked up to our son, hugged him and apologized for getting woke up. I also said it was not true that I was kicking their dad out. Unbelievable! Our son went back to bed looking upset. For the rest of the night my husband went on a tirade calling me names and insulting me. For the first time I looked at him and saw him for what he is, an ass. I didn't cry and his words didn't bother me. He has already hurt me enough that this didn't even bother me.
I went to work the next day and he was desperate. He started telling me I couldn't go home to our house. I didn't care. I just wanted to make sure we worked out something with the kids. A lawyer would settle the house later. I ended up at home anyway. My time is spent working, with my dad who has brain cancer and my kids. My husband doesn't fit in.
About 2 or 3 days into it he finally broke down and apologized for what he's done to me and our marriage. He says I am the one he wants, etc. I don't believe it yet. He won't do some of the things I need him to do. He has done some without me asking. The bottom line is that he is a rig sweeper and doesn't think discussing it does any good. I want answers, explanations and reassurances but he disagrees. He thinks we just "move forward" but I have heard that plenty of times before. To me that means he continues cake eating.
My dad had to be moved to a nursing home. This has broken my hear more than anything. I am so sad over him. My focus is my dad and kids. For the first time in a long time I have quit worrying about my husband. I have decided not to pay any attention to him. I guess a 180. I am so busy with my dad, my kids and work that I just don't care what he's doing.
My birthday was last week and he treated it better than any birthday I've had in a while. He keeps telling me he wants me, etc. I am being careful to keep him on the bottom of my priorities. Before I was always hanging onto him, feeling insecure, scared he was contacting her, etc. now I DON'T CARE. My attitude is either he is last or he leaves. My dad needs me and I haven't been the mom I should be because of him. He is now LAST. I have to spend my time where I am appreciated and needed.
I don't know where we are headed but i do know that I am in a much better place than I have been. I feel at peace. Losing my dad is going to be an absolute hell but I will know I was there with him all the way thru and that he got the best care we could give him. I gave him all I could.
Thanks so much for your kind words. As always, I feel for everyone going thru this. It's not a fair way to live and no one deserves it.
I am so sorry about your dear dad. You are doing the right thing by focusing on him, your children and you. Yes, it sounds like the 180 and it sounds like you are or have detached, and that really is the best news. (((gotta)))
p.s. please don't reveal your source!
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
i think you are on overdrive...and by the grace of god you seem numb to him......i hope it lasts
so theres an old saying...keep on truckin.....and thats exactly what you need to do ..keep on truckin!!!
And answered some questions.
Told me that he got into a sexual relationship with her only because she was available. And he was in a perfect storm of work stress, poor boundaries, self- esteem, unresolved CSA issues, etc, and crossed that line without thinking it through. He said she was nothing special, and if he had been actually looking he thinks he could have done better. ( that warmed the cockles of my heart--I wish I could tell her that, that and that he wouldn't have even dated her if he was single)
He said that he regretted it immediately, but it became habit and was so compartmentalized that even he would sometimes forget how annoying she was or how bad the sex had been. He said by the last few years when he would occasionally go over sometimes he wouldn't bother to sleep with her or have ED and neither one of them were bothered by it. He figured that she too realized the sex was bad and felt ashamed as well. Of course that didn't stop her from being threatening if he didn't answer her calls, or getting hysterical and call him a fucking bastard and scream and cry. He felt trapped and could not talk to anyone.
As I've said before, he doesn't make it sound enticing. But I can see why he's SURE it won't happen again! Me? I will need to see more work before I have more confidence.
Up until then,even with all that my FWH was doing, I would still second guess my decision to R and wonder how I could forgive such a betrayal.
I think WH and his OW had fantastic sex. We were with her and her family often. Apparently the they were never anything but just friends lie was secret code for "I wanted to marry her but she married some other guy she was dating behind my back without telling me instead."
Really. How did I rate below that?
Honestly? I hate myself for staying. I really do. I'm up this late just hating myself. I'm still thankful I stayed for many reasons, mostly Baby Pedro who is a spectacular little child, but I still haven't been able to get rid of the self-loathing that comes from staying with a spouse who is a cheater.
Don't hate yourself. I do understand what you are saying. It's not so much as a self loathing, as you said, but more that by now we start to think why didn't we have more self esteem to kick them to the curb immmediately?
I'm coming more and more to the conclusion why so many people feel that an A is a deal breaker. In order to R, there has to be many conditions in place, especially a remorseful WS who is willing to do the work on themselves to see why they did what they did. And then the long painful process of trying to rebuild a new marriage and new trust. The BS has to recover from a great trauma too.
We want to stop the loss so very much. We would rather have the "old marriage" back than to have to face this deep and utter betrayal.
We are in denial.
I want to believe all the lies and charm NPD throws at me. All the crap about he loves only me and is only with OW because of the OC's blah blah blah.
Then I see him calling her 10 minutes here, another 15 minutes there, etc until it adds up to at least an hour every single day. He says it's about business. BS
So he went back yesterday. I asked him to call me when he arrived to see if he got there safely. Did he call? Nope.
In the movie The Devil Wears Prada, the bf says to the main character "the person who you are on the phone with all the time is the person you are in a relationship with"
In my case, the LTA is NPD's REAL life. His FULL life. Kids, bills, work, tuition, etc etc. I don't know what me and the DS's are to him anymore. A place to stay for a while? Trying to fulfill his fatherly duties to an extent with the DS's? Cake eating?
DS 18 says that NPD doesn't love anyone but himself. So does my therapist. NPD does what's good for him.
And, M3, I do understand what you are saying about self loathing. I HATE myself for almost falling for it again. I wanted it sooooo badly. I just wanted to be loved. I wanted security, trust and loyalty.
I didn't get that from my parents.
I guess I just have to find that within myself and can no longer look for that in a relationship.
M3: I totally understand what you are saying about the self-loathing - that's something that went through my head a lot.
Honest: YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN HIM. SERIOUSLY. ((Honest))