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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Finances....
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Money is one of the top reasons people separate. This is legitimately huge, probably as huge as cheating.

While the A was going on, my FWH took money out of our account and loaned it to his stepbrother. He did not discuss it with me, and only told me after I asked him about it. As expected, his stepbrother never did pay it back.

It was not a large amount of money, and if he had discussed it with me I would have probably agreed to lend it, but the fact that he went behind my back still stings. I am uncomfortable around his stepbrother because he is a taker, and he represents another betrayal by my FWH.

The infidelity was way, way worse, but I can see how thousands of dollars in hidden debt and a refusal to address it could be very difficult.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Nov 2010
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The infidelity was way, way worse, but I can see how thousands of dollars in hidden debt and a refusal to address it could be very difficult.

I completely get this. I don't think it's a question of worse. It's actually the same thought process, though. That's what I think people don't always see.

They get so hung up on the "results" of that fucked up thought process and since fucking someone else can be considered the ultimate in fucked up it becomes the focus.

What if other people ain't your thang, though. Do "you" get "credit" for not doing something you don't have any draw to anyway while using the same toxic thought processes to get "your" fix?

If spending money is your "drug" rather than another person there is no "worse" or "better". It's putting your needs and wants over your family and a huge "fuck you" to your spouse who is trying to keep the whole thing going. That's breaking every vow there is and endangering your family literally right where they live.

If the choice is being homeless because the money is all gone or my ex fucking someone else (which he did anyway) I can tell you right now where my vote is going.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
budbusch
♂ New Member
Member # 35946
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I4L,
I will join the rest and agree that lying about finances is horrible. I do not have sound advice but will explain my current situation and what childish extremes you could go though to help you wife “get it”.

My current situation as a single income home is my wife handles the books. Early in our M, BW was not financially responsible. Once the money ran out and we were struggling to make ends meet, I flat out told her she had to take all of it. If she was going to spend money not on bills, she had to see everything coming in and everything going out. It didn’t take long before she “got it”. Granted, I no longer am clear what the finances are but I trust her and I always ask her “Can we afford it?” Yes or No; that’s it.

Now to get childish, you could discontinue Cable/Internet/Phone. You could cook Ramain noodles for a week. Once she sees the extremes you go through to save a penny to pay off debt; she might start to pay attention.

This method is not recommended and not healthy but the fact of the matter is, there needs to be good communication. As you know your wife better than anyone, you should find a way for healthy communication.

Please share what attempts you have made to get her to see your M’s financial responsibilities.


ME: fWH 30
HER: BW 29
OW#1 2001 preM ONS
OW#2 2001 preM cooworker
2002 DS Born
OW#3 2002 preM ONS
2003 M
OW#4 2005 co-worker several months
OW#5 2005 co-worker several months
OW#6 2005 co-worker a few months
OW#7 2010 co-worker a few mo

Posts: 26 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: MD
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, March 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely get this. I don't think it's a question of worse. It's actually the same thought process, though. That's what I think people don't always see.

I agree, and I really should have quoted what UnexpectedSong was referencing.

I just wanted to point out that even after the giant shitstorm that was the infidelity, it still stung that FWH made a decision about our money and then didn't tell me about it. You're 100% right that it was the same thought process.

It's too bad that I4L has not been back to this thread. I am interested to know how he has brought this up and what his BW's response has been. It can be so easy to fall into the trap of "you cheated. I shouldn't be expected to have to change," but that doesn't really solve anything.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Nov 2010
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If spending money is your "drug" rather than another person there is no "worse" or "better". It's putting your needs and wants over your family and a huge "fuck you" to your spouse who is trying to keep the whole thing going. That's breaking every vow there is and endangering your family literally right where they live.

totally agree.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's actually the same thought process, though. That's what I think people don't always see.

yep, raises hand! I was a wayward long before I actually cheated on my husband.. when I hid CC bills from him. Same entitlement attitude.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4457 | Registered: Dec 2010
FaithStricken
♀ Member
Member # 34080
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also believe that financial deceptiveness is a form of betrayal. This can be hiding debt as many have discussed, or even hiding assets or money. However, my FWH's sexual betrayal risked my physical safety. He took a risk with my actual life. That's why I personally find sexual infidelity worse. The basic thought processes for either betrayal (financial vs sexual) are the same with the exception of knowing the risk of disease and death with sexual infidelity.

[This message edited by FaithStricken at 8:02 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 85 | Registered: Dec 2011
Idiot4Life09
♂ Member
Member # 29451
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All. First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding to my post. Second, I want to apologize for not responding soon. I just returned from a business trip I was on for the past two days and I wrote this post right before I left. I'm a SR network engineer who is working on a DR solution for my company and I have been consumed with that for the past 2 days.

I just want to comment on a few things that were posted but I want to go back through all the replies and re-read them.

My affair was in 2009. We are actually coming up to one of our Ddays very shortly. During the affair, my head was up my ass and I did all the classic crap - lying, yelling, blameshifting,etc.

I enrolled myself in an anger management course for only men. I sought help from my own couseler. After a few months, I invited my wife into those session, which was hard because that was my "safe" place but I knew if I wanted to move forward to save the marriage and try to repair the damage from my A, I needed to hear her express her pain and except what I did. I own the affair, that is all mine.

We did the marriage couseling for a while but my wife kind of did not do the home work (not blameshift here, just stating the facts).

I actually kept my anger in check for over a year. I know this will probably cause a stir with some folks here but I felt that since I showed my outward appearance to be all calm, I still had the feeling I had before the affair that she was using me, letting me take all the finiancial responsibility on my shoulders. If this was a conversation pre-A, i would have been in her face screaming. Post A, i did not say anything. I brought it up in MC. The MC would make suggestions and my wife chose not to follow them.

Overtime again, it is has been eating away at me. As a few people said in their post, "what is she going to do when all is gone?", there is college to pay for, I have kids braces to pay for, etc...

Now I'm not sure where in my original post that you can say I'm blameshifting. I agree with the post that said that we are adults and as an adult this needs to be dealt with. That is all that I am asking for.

For those of you that do the books in your family with out the involvement of your other half, you can attest to the fact that you feel all the burden of paying the bills. And I guess the other half that makes this more stressful is that I am the primary income earner for the house so I feel that if I don't keep bring in the money and paying the bills that it will be my fault if lost the house or if the we dont have the money for braces or their college education. That is a biggy. My oldest is 12 and I have yet to have a meaningful conversation with my spouse about how we are going to pay for that. And I have a son two years behind her. That is a ton of pressure for only one person to undertake. I am asking for help and take off the pressure of feeling that I am all alone in this financial battle with the bills. I'm not asking for my wife to go out and make a ton of money. I dont even care if she works. I just want to know that we are in this fight as partners not as individuals.

So that is some of the back story and how I feel. I hope that answers some of the questions that people posted on this thread.


There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face...

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2010
RockyMtn
♀ Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is she in IC? I'm not sure what she runs up the CC bills for. Clothes? Shoes? Spa? I guess it doesn't really matter, but it might. From what you're saying...the amount of debt coupled with the fact that you've tried to work on this (off and on) for years, even via a MC...means that she's in serious trouble. Nothing has gotten through to her. And she has chosen not to take responsibility time and time again.

I don't think this is something you can do with her at this point. If you yelled and screamed at her pre-A and pre-anger management, she is going to have a hard time trusting you as she works through this.

While I do think she is an adult who has to take responsibility for her actions, the A may have played a role here. Did you notice the spending got worse? Even if it didn't, she may feel even MORE entitled now to the spending than ever before. And if shopping is an addiction, she may be soothing herself from the pain of the A.

This is serious stuff. Get a professional involved.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
HopeImOverIt
♀ Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I'm not sure where in my original post that you can say I'm blameshifting.

I didn't see that you had registered long ago, so I apologize and withdraw my comment. Since you were posting in the wayward forum I made the erroneous assumption that you felt your infidelity was somehow related to her hiding debt. Obviously I was way off the mark.

I do think you should consider getting back into marriage counseling. And what about seeing a credit counselor together?


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 254 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do think you should consider getting back into marriage counseling
That would be ideal if his wife was interested in doing the work. It seems she is not. I4L, is this a deal breaker for you? What is your next move? When you bring this up, does your wife in turn bring up your A?


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5758 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Idiot4Life09
♂ Member
Member # 29451
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MissesJai: she does turn the conversation towards the A when it is not going her way.


HopeImOverIt: no worries. I don't post much here because as I type things, I reread it and it sounds like very ridiculous things that I would post. So half the time, I type a whole thread and then never post it.


RockyMtn: some of her cc debit is a result of the A and I know that. What I have offered is to sit down with her and work out a way to get this paid off, even if I have to start making the payments. The only part of that is I did this twice already (pre A) and if I keep doing that, then what she is learning is that she does not need to worry about money because I will come to the rescue.

As far as a dealer breaker, no. She stood by me during the A and after. She is my wife and I just want to make her happy.



There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face...

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2010
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the hardest things for me to learn was not to relate everything back to the A.

It has been a difficult task, particularly since some of the most difficult things we have had to deal with have had quite a lot to do with decisions my FWH made unilaterally during his affair. What I have had to do is realize that some of what has happened might have happened anyway, and some of the things that seemed bad at the time actually turned out better for us.

But, I could do none of that until I dealt with the trauma of the affair. Has your BW done any work to move herself beyond where she was post-discovery? I ask because as much as I felt like I shouldn't have to do any of the work, I realized that if I wanted my marriage to work I had to get over that and start figuring out how to get things to a place where they weren't hurting me all the time. My FWH couldn't do that for me. All he could do was support me and continue to work to show me he had changed.

There could be lots of things contributing to your BW's reluctance to get involved in family finances. Some of them could be historical, either that she saw modeled at home or that you and she established early in your M. But given that she brings up the A when you try and address this, my guess would be that she is unwilling or afraid to make changes, or perhaps she feels like she shouldn't have to. That is the kind of thing that could be brought up in MC where you could work on articulating why you need this from her, and she can assess why she is reluctant, with the help of a third party.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Nov 2010
2Old4ThisCrap
♀ New Member
Member # 38771
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In reading your post, I sense your wife is reluctant for some reason to open up. You mentioned anger issues. As someone who was called nasty names in a previous relationship, even today, if my Fwh starts to raise his voice? I want to curl up into the fetal position. Even though it wasn't Fwh that was the abuser! Is she seeing anger, when none is meant? My point is that anger issues can be extremely traumatic. And I know I've overreacted when Fwh meant no disrespect. I don't know your history, and I mean no offense!! Just something to consider.

You mentioned she's hiding the debt. In what way? Is she going on wild spending sprees? Has she been bringing frivolous purchases home that she can't afford? Do you know about all her debtors, or do feel she's hiding a CC? And does she work? Is she paying them or is she expecting you to pay bills that are unexplained?

Lastly, are you transparent with your finances? Does she have access to all your cards, accounts, etc? Are all accounts joint? How about email and social media? I'm assuming yes, but wanted to verify...

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. I hope I'm not being too nosy. But my gut is telling me that she doesn't feel safe for some reason, and I just wanted to throw out some ideas that might influence the situation without you even realizing it...

Good luck!


Posts: 6 | Registered: Mar 2013
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But my gut is telling me that she doesn't feel safe for some reason

Yeah, because she's hiding shit she doesn't want her H to find out about. Hmmmm. God, that sounds so very familiar. Oh wait....

Jesus, some waywards haven't felt safe. Are labeled conflict avoidant because "conflict" is closer to nuclear holocaust than disagreements.

And that means what, exactly? An excuse? A reason? I wish some folks would explain to me how the very same behavior and thought processes somehow miraculously have "reasons" associated with it when it's a "BS" that's performing them but "excuses, blameshifting, justification" when a WS commits them?

I have never understood that. Guess it comes down to who you can empathize with.

Truth doesn't work like that, though. Thankfully. Toxic choices don't somehow become healthy based on how much you may "like" or connect with the perpetrator.

The OP has posted this before. Yes, she hides and he has no knowledge. Yes he's transparent with the finances and has tried to do it with her.

Idiot4life, yes your wife stood by you. Would she have if you continued to cheat? I ask because she is continuing behavior that is creating lasting issues on your financial health. Just as she wouldn't be expected to "stand by" you as you fucked someone else, neither would you be with her continued disrespect.

Only you know when to say enough but don't let your guilt be an excuse to tolerate this.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hurtbutmending
♀ Member
Member # 31655
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would recommend Dave Ramsey's program called Financial Peace University.
It can really open your eyes to the problems of separate and hidden finances. There are some establishments that offer it for free(religious and military).


BS(me)
FWH(him)
MOW insignificant
married 25 years
2 grown children
DDay Oct 4 2009
R - trying


Trusted too much!


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Finding myself again
Naivete123
♀ Member
Member # 38715
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm new, and a recent BS. I am not good with money. My husband initially tried to involve me in the money, to at least make me aware of what we had in case something happened to him. But he was better at managing money,so I was happy to let him do all the bills. 5 years ago I was addicted to shopping. It seemed I couldn't control my spending. Before I knew it, my paycheck could barely cover the minimum payment(I worked PT retail). I had racked up over 10k in cc debt. I would hide statements that came in the mail, then I switched to online statements, but would get the random statement in the mail. My husband happened to open one, and he was livid-rightly so. He actually thought I might of been having an affair. I never indulged with expensive items. It was little things that I'd let get out of control. Simple things like running to the store for gas and milk, I'd just put it on the cc. I like to think I was at a breaking point with my deceit. I was afraid something like this would make my husband possibly want to leave me. Though I really don't think I could have stopped on my own. So tough love. I was not allowed to use cc any more. Cash or bank card only. My husband ran a cred report ever 3 mos. to make sure I wasn't opening any other cc. I was put on a tight budget.

I know it's hard, but she won't stop. It is an addiction, and as with any addiction it needs to be addressed. It would be no different than if she had turned to drugs or alcohol to ease her pain. Just like they tell us BS that our WS made the choice to cheat, regardless of what the marriage is like. She is making this choice that will ultimately hurt your family.


I WILL NOT drink the Kool Aid.

The grass is greener on the other side. But they put chemicals on theirs.


Posts: 60 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: USA
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as a dealer breaker, no. She stood by me during the A and after. She is my wife and I just want to make her happy.
I can respect that. Just know that she CHOSE to stick by you during the A & after. You are not obligated to make those same choices. Your life, your choice. Same with her. I applaud your wanting to make her happy - just remember at the end of the day, SHE is 100% responsible for her happiness, not you. If she is unhappy, she should do something about that. If she won't, then you have to decide if you can live like this for the rest of your life.
yes your wife stood by you. Would she have if you continued to cheat? I ask because she is continuing behavior that is creating lasting issues on your financial health. Just as she wouldn't be expected to "stand by" you as you fucked someone else, neither would you be with her continued disrespect.

Only you know when to say enough but don't let your guilt be an excuse to tolerate this.

UO hit the nail on the head.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5758 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
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