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He wont propose because I dont view health as importance as he
My friends always tell me when I don't know what to do - don't do anything.
You can begin to deal with this tomorrow. Stop talking to him today, gather your family or friends around and call a counselor to also support you.
And keep posting....
I considered changing numbers but that requires some planning since it is my only work number.
We often tell the WS, you'll read it a billion times on here, you gotta be willing to lose it all if you're going to recover. I'm sure if you asked for a showing of hands of who got rid of a car or sold a house or quit their job or moved out of town or changed their number or quit their hobby organizations etc you'd get a hefty response.... spouses willing to do anything to heal their BS.
So I ask you, what are YOU willing to do to heal yourself? I'd be willing to bet a month's salary if he threw a fit, gave some ultimatum, over your number, you'd change it to make him feel better. Are you worth less than he is? Again, as I asked pages ago, have you asked yourself WHY you accept less for yourself? WHY do you accept painful love? WHY have you always accepted less than healthy?
I've kept interested in this thread because I truly feel you're dealing with an NPD. I almost didn't post because I'm recovering with an NPD. I didn't want you to see that and get hope an NPD can recover. Not just most don't, rarely EVER do any of them, and I keep separating on the table always because I know that fact.
NPD and co-dependents go hand in hand. There's a lot of (a LOT of) brokenness in me that allowed me to stay so long in such an unhealthy chaotic mess. (Won't call it a relationship because it was more a pile of shit that I begged to eat daily than a relationship.)
The only reason I'm in recovery with an NPD is because that NPD did give up everything. ALL passwords, 100% full disclosure, full transparency, full access to anything at anytime, quit social media until he can define what appropriate boundaries are, quit his social organization (and it was his whole life for many years, so that was HUGE, even to my family and friends), got into IC, is setting up MC now......
......and it is STILL rocky, more like tumultuous at times.....
So I certainly, certainly, certainly would NOT even look at another text or email without allllllll those things being put into action....because even then, honey, both of you have a long road ahead of WORKING to get healthy. Better days await. (((hugs))) (...and hug yourself today, too.) :)
[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 6:48 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]
If you guys only knew him! He's wealthy attractive extremely likable. I was the envy of many many girls and even some guys. Everyone thinks he hung the moon and I'm the one who needs help
Suspicious, people who manipulate in relationships are extremely likable. They have to be, if they weren't - no one would let them get close and you have to get close to manipulate people. You have to figure out what makes them tick before you can manipulate them.
My s/o thinks my father is one of the nicest people he's met. He can't reconcile my stories of my father with the man he sees. Most people who know my father think he's wonderful - that I'm fortunate to have such a generous and loving parent. Its very common for everyone to see people like your boyfriend and my father that way. Only the spouses and children see the manipulator.
I learned by the age of 10 that my father used what was important to me to manipulate me. If there was something I really liked, it was either taken away from me or I was berated for liking whatever it was. If something made me feel good about myself, like all A's in every class except a B in gym, I was berated for the B in gym. Suddenly gym was the most important class ever and if I wasn't getting the best grade of all of them in gym, I was a failure. I was in the wrong. I could do no right. I'd never be successful in anything if I got a B in gym. A's in chemistry, trig, french and english were irrelevant, all that mattered was that B because I suck at gymnastics. As we all know, if you can't do a cartwheel, you'll never get into college, get a job or find a man who will marry you. I heard all that. Did the B in gym matter to my Dad? Not a bit. What mattered was I was feeling good about myself and that was a no-no, I needed to be made to feel bad about myself, because you can't manipulate and control people who feel good about themselves.
By twelve, I knew my father's opinion about me was nonsense and what mattered was how I felt about myself. Which is good, but I also learned self defense mechanisms to protect myself - which aren't good. I don't reveal much about myself, especially anything that is important to me. I equate the word 'promise' with 'I'm lying to you.' If anyone uses the word promise in a sentence, I believe they're lying to me. It doesn't matter if it's a plumber saying 'I promise to be at your house at 10am to fix the leaky faucet' or my s/o saying 'I promise love and fidelity.'
Why does the word promise have a different meaning to me? Because of my father. He will want me to do A, so he will promise B (something he has deduced I want - not because I have said I do). I'll do A. I'll go to collect on B and will be told "I lied." Just that simple, he will say "I lied," as if it's acceptable to lie to people to further his objectives, because after all, what he wanted me to do in his opinion was good for me, so I'm wrong in thinking his method of lying to me was wrong.
Your boyfriend's texts and emails are littered with that mentality. The rules of healthy relationships don't apply to him. Never. Ever. He's somehow special and gets to manipulate people and when caught, it's your fault, not his. Always. You need to stay firm and end it with him before you take destructive self defense mechanisms you learned to protect yourself from him into your next relationship.
I read his side of the boiled over pot on the stove and I saw my father's tactics. Your boyfriend used it as a lesson to get you to say he was right. When you didn't, you were at fault. If you had boiled the water the way he told you and it boiled over, it would still be your fault and you would have to tell him he's right. If you had boiled the water his way or your way and it hadn't boiled over, you would still be wrong because the food didn't taste right. You are always on the losing end of any discussion, issue or act because he designs it that way. You have to always be made to see he's all powerful and always right.
You texted him that you were ending the relationship and wanted no further contact with him. How does he respond? Not with "I understand. I'll miss you, I love you, I hope you have a good life. Good bye." Instead, he tells you what is wrong with you and you're the hinderance in making the relationship he has with you work.
You can leave a boyfriend, fiance or spouse who loves you in a way that is unhealthy. You don't have to stay in the dysfunction. You don't have to be loved that way. No matter how strong you may think the love is between you, how good that love is and you won't ever find it with another man - none of that trumps how destructive it is to you.
A healthy, once in a lifetime love is never destructive to you. What you have with your boyfriend is very destructive. Just because everyone else thinks he's the greatest person ever, that doesn't make him so. What it makes him is a person who has learned honey catches more flies with people he doesn't have direct control over and vinegar works ever better with people he does have control over.
If someone has to use honey or vinegar to catch your interest and maintain it - there is something wrong. I'm not talking about being considerate or nice with honey, I'm talking about being overly generous, attentive, etc.
He used honey early on in your relationship with him and about the time when most relationships would begin to think about the commitment of marriage, he switched to vinegar. It has nothing to do with what you did. It had everything to do with he knew marriage was important to you and he could use it against you to control you.
You have now told him the relationship is over. He's going to pull every tactic he can to reel you back in. Why? Because he doesn't want to start all over with someone else, it's a lot of work to gain control over them. Love to him is power and control. He has to constantly prove he has control over you, he will change the conditions hourly.
I know 36 seems old. It's not. You've barely started life. Look at him as a blessing, he has taught you what love is not. Some people get to 70 without learning that. You've learned it early and have decades to enjoy learning what love is, with a man who also knows that love is not control and power over another.
If you must, read his texts and emails he sends for the next few days to reinforce what you have with him is not love. Then block him. Heal your heart and mind and then move onto what love really is with a new man. I know that man is out there for you. I know in a few years you will return to SI to tell us all about him and give hope to everyone else who is untangling themselves from a man similar to the man you once untangled yourself from.
[This message edited by Matisse at 7:25 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]
I considered changing numbers but that requires some planning since it is my only work number. Plus I'm a masochis. And my mood changes every 3 minutes
Of course your mood is all over the place - you've invested years into this person and you're withdrawing. Being moody and anxious and changing your mind a few times an hour is normal.
However one thing is for certain: even 6 months ago, judging by your pain-filled writing, your gut was SCREAMING at you that this was not a normal, healthy relationship. Judging by his words about you, you've been centering in on the same issues in him since you've gotten back together: he's not trustworthy, he's selfish, he's controlling, and worst of all abusive. YOU know that, your gut knows that and your mind even knows that. Your heart knows it, too.
But you're grieving the relationship and future you wanted to have. The relationship you did have was controlling and abusive, but you really, really wanted him to hear you and see you and love you, and you wanted it so much you could imagine it perfectly - and of course you wanted to get to that place you'd imagined! Who wouldn't?
But that's not who he is. And that's heartbreaking, so of course you'll keep feeling hope and regret and fear and then anger and resolve, then cycle back again.
But trust in yourself, in your consistent gut instinct that has told you over and over this is not right. Your eyes have been opened, even if you didn't want them to be, and as much as you want to close them again and slip back into your dream, the alarm has gone off and it's time to keep them open now.
Sending you lots of positive thoughts tonight.
You go shopping one day to buy a blue pair of shoes. You know exactly what shoe you want. But, you see a little bit different shoe and choose it instead. After wearing it for a while it sucks. It wasn't what you really wanted, but you limp along with this show because you chose it. But, it wasn't what you really wanted.
Just because you are still wearing this blue shoe, doesn't mean you have to keep wearing what you don't like, what doesn't fit right, what looks and feels all wrong.
Get rid of the wrong blue shoe and hold out for the right shoe!!!!
Break away now.
This isn't a good place for you and he will never understand. THat's how you know something is wrong with him. RUN because you will end up like me,,, 52 and WH still doesn't "get"it. He's off with someone else and my 2 sons are devastated....
Ok, Suspi. Let's have a little laugh together, k?
At 2:00 pm, you posted this:
I sent a text saying I don't want to marry him and to stop contacting me. I think he will stay away
Your text was perfect. Very clear and succinct. You pointed no fingers. Your response was "Suspi says ENOUGH. Beat feet, dude."
You posted HIS response at 3:23pm.
He gave you his Top 10 list, which I won't comment on, and then writes this:
You're saying that marriage is going to fix these problems.
Ummmm....what? Remember how I said that he was talking *at* you? Well, that response from him is a prime example. How does he read "I don't want to marry you" and come up with "marriage is the magic answer to all of our problems?"
**cue the laughter** It is ridiculous. It is crazy-making. It is the complete and total mindfuck that so clearly defines an *abusive* type of relationship.
Look. We aren't beating you up. The majority of us have dealt with this exact type of thing. Heck, *I* was *you* one year ago. I was constantly posting the texts that I was exchanging with Sultan. CONSTANTLY. I think that I posted every word we exchanged for about 3 months. Guess what? I got the same exact responses that you are getting. <--Those people were ALL RIGHT. But you know what I did? I ignored them and continued engaging and trying to *explain*. Why? Because Sultan communicated with me in the exact same way that your WBF is communicating with you. Sultan wasn't always overtly abusive.....he responded in the exact same manner as what you are dealing with. His responses are written in order to get you to feel the need to defend and explain yourself......and really all it is, is a way to shift the focus from him to you. Sultan was ACTIVELY fucking another woman, telling me that if *I* weren't so angry that he'd be home and life would be grand.....and I would respond with *explanations* of why what he was doing was wrong. You know what everyone told me? "NC" "Stop engaging" "(really bad words)" and the most prophetic of all "HE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE." I should have listened.
Circe nailed this conundrum for you:
you're grieving the relationship and future you wanted to have. The relationship you did have was controlling and abusive, but you really, really wanted him to hear you and see you and love you, and you wanted it so much you could imagine it perfectly - and of course you wanted to get to that place you'd imagined!
The sad fact of the matter is that, due to whatever crazy thought-processes he has, he is not ever going to be able to give you what you are seeking.
So, as UO alluded to, it is time to *take your ball and go home*.
Don't respond to him anymore. Block him in every single way that you can. KNOW that whatever *bullshit* he tries to throw your way is just that....bullshit. He sucks.
Suspi, you know this relationship isn't *right*. You *called* it in those past emails that you sent him....the ones that you pointed out that you thought he was abusive.
There is a member her called Painpaingoaway. She's got some AWESOME spiky stilettos which are much more attractive than the *bitchboots* that we speak of. Can someone *conjure* up those stilettos for Suspi???
Also.....notice how your WBF has very masterfully and subtly *changed* the focus. HE is a cheater....and yet, he's *boo-hoo*'ing over the fact that you don't trust him and feel resentment. And he is pointing to YOUR non-trust and resentment as the *problem*.
I keep thinking about the very long discussion about the water on the stove. I can just imagine how someone as abusive as he is can make such a drama about something like that. You spill water, he gets nasty about it, then it becomes Exhibit A in Why You Are Not Good Enough. Seriously, any normal person would say "silly sausage", have a laugh about it and help you clean up.
That scenario has been in my mind all day.
Block his number and black hole his emails.
I bet that in less than a week he will show up at your door to make sure you understand YOU are the one who is fucked up and he is the one who wants nothing to do with you.
If he doesn't then it's probably like quitting smoking. Once you are a week out the world looks a lot sunnier and it gets a whole lot easier to breathe.
Suspicious, You are lucky to have received so much great advice and counseling here. It would ave taken you six months with a really good therapist to have gotten all of this. Actually, the truth is that no one person could have provided this wealth of perspective and practical advice.
I read this entire thread last night, with the exception of one of the REALLY long letters your boyfriend wrote to you. I just couldn't get through that much nonsense. At the end of reading everything, I was totally exhausted and in a state of mild shock. I just stared at my iPad for about 45 minutes thinking about what I wanted to say to try and get you to see the light.
Really, it's all been said. Now it's up to you. If after reading all of this 50' times, as you have done, you're still confused, then I just don't know what to tell you. So, this stud is wealthy and the envy of many, huh? (so was oj simpson). You had intense times with him and want them to return (heroin provides an intense time, too).
You made a good choice by saying no to him. You told him straight and thst was good. Now, it's time to realize you fell in love with a toxic man, one who lured you in with his charm, money and body. (I'd question the depth of the conversations you had, personally). You have two choices. Keep taking the heroin and pay the consequences, or get sober.
If he won't leave you alone, start thinking restraining order. Maybe he'll understand that.
[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 11:59 AM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]
A few things here...
The phone number. I work for a huge company. I am a flexible which means I get my hours at various offices. I also have two kids 5 & 7...one who goes for counceling because he is on the autism spectrum. Im the hub of my household. To sum this up is if I changed my number it would be a humongous pain in the ass! Still, if there was a need to do so, I would. No question about it.
Two, this fools charming behavior...so the fuck what! They are usually charming. Who gives a shit if others think he is mr wonderful and this is all your problem. Let them think all they want to bc they arent living your abuse. Let them step in your shoes and get verbally and emotionally whacked around of they so desire. Save yourself.
Third, which is what I wanted to respond to last night but I fell asleep....the silent treatment. Baby girl, go google the women's crisis and read what are symotoms of abuse. One is seperating you from loved ones (which is what he is trying to do by guilting you into not talking yo anyone), controlling you (at this point, what you eat, but it gets worse, as I tell you from expetience), and the silent treatment which is used to make ***you*** believe **you** did something wrong. Wh did that to me on my birthday 8-9 yrs ago bc I asked him to do something that annoyed or hurt. He didnt talk to me for days. Not 3 days but days. And he was totally pissed off. I didnt know til about two years ago this was abuse. He doesnt do it anymore bc I told him what it was and he doesnt want to get into trouble if we do go bf the courts. He has a great coach or two or more. He does now talk **at** me and wont let me get a word in edge wise. He also tells me things for my benefit. Does this sound familiar? Right.
Change your number. Tell people its bc youre getting out of an abusive relationship. If they say its not something they believe, well they werent in the relationship, you were. Let them go experience it.
Actually, I wouldn't inconvenience myself any further with this guy by changing numbers and such.
Just go dark.
If you see his text pop up. Get up and walk away from the phone. Go to the restroom, get a piece of gum to chew, find a TV show to watch, anything to distract you from the momentary urge to read and answer. Then when you are more in control, delete it.
No need to say anything to him again ever. You made it crystal clear that you wanted NC and you didn't want to marry him. That was THE RIGHT DECISION.
Think of him as an annoying gnat that keeps buzzing by your face, swat him away (delete the messages) and go about your day.
I also think you should read and re-read the bit below from UO everytime you want to try to reason with him or respond to him, or make sense of his action and words.
I have a hard time believing others don't see glimpses into his dysfunction. They just aren't affected by it so can dismiss it and focus on the parts they can enjoy.
People cherry pick all the time and with no problems. When you aren't close to someone they don't have the same impact...
Point is, these people don't look like they should. The look "human". They're not. Your "arguing" with someone that has an endless supply of military grade weapons and the ability to use them with laser precision. He's not hampered or constrained by the inconvenient things like conscience, empathy, compassion, care.
You fight by putting as much distance between him and yourself. You don't respond because he's reloading and using you words to home into your location. You go dark and run. Otherwise I hope your affairs are in order. I'm dead serious. "People" like this will kill you. Emotionally or physically. For some whatever is easier and more fun.
Please. Don't be a statistic.
Well everyone, I have updates.
I know I'll get a ton of' I told you so's.' You guys were all right! I should have listened.
After I sent him the message that I didn't want to marry him and not to contact me anymore, I started feeling guilty. I'm too nice for my own good and I didn't want to end 4 years on such an ugly note. He did do so much for me, and we went through a lot of hard times together. So I thoguht sending him the below text would end things on a good note.
"I'm not a mean person, and I dont want to part on such ugly terms. I want you to know some things. These are my true feelings and I can't say whether they are based on a relationship I created in my head or what actually happened. But I want you to know that I will never kiss another guy without thinking of you. And comparing his kiss to yours. And probably never being satisified. When I think I'm falling deep for someone I will think back to us and compare and will most likely tell myself there's no comparison. when he touches me I will think of you and realize there is no comparison to the way you made me feel. Every time I hear the word nugget, oscar, babe and countless words I havent even thought of yet, you will be in my head. Anytime an inside joke begins to form i'll think of all of ours. When Im looking into someones eyes, i'll compare if im looking with the same intensity I looked into yours. When Im hurting I'll always wonder if it hurts as bad as this did. Anytime I have a feeling that makes me feel....alive...i will think back to all the feelings u felt in this relationship. I will never think about mexico or look at the ocean without thinking of you. I will always think of you when passing your intersection. Everytime I cry my heart out and think im going to die, i will wonder if it was better or worse than this.
but unfortunately everytime i dont like what i see in the mirror, gain a pound, find a new wrinkle, or zit, or age spot or I am extremely hard on myself or whenever i think im not good enough or special enough, i will also think of you. And that is why im so sad i coudl literally die. I hate to say goodbye but i dont see any other way"
I then shut my phone off and went to bed. Woke up the next mornign to calls and texts from him. He apparently even came by the house because one text said my light was on and he could see the tv on. He asked that I would give him one more conversation because he wanted to tell me something. Said he knew it was probably the last thing I wanted to do, but would i please do it.
He told me that he read that text 50 times and realized he feels the same way. And aplogized for procrastinating for so long and that he was now sure (and was never more sure of anything) that he wanted to marry me. He asked if I would go away on a trip with him. I was very wary of this and thought it was just a way to buy more time. I asked what the trip woudl accomplish. His repsonse was we could reconnect and hinted at a proposal. I told him if I went on a such a trip with him and there was no proposal I woudl be devastated and he said he understood and was sure that proposing was what he wanted. That he was ready to start the next chapter in our lives. And I was the love of his life.
I was not sure WHAT to think. Confused would be a huge understatement. I told him I needed time to think about it.
The next night he said he was going to the gym. I went to the same gym on a whim bc and walked around looking for him. I didn't see him. I walked around three times and I did NOT see him. So I send a text asking what hes up to, and proceeded to start my workout. 10 minutes later he walks by and acts surpirsed to see me. I dont know something just clicked with me and I got angry. Very angry. I asked where he'd been and what was he doing? I pleaded with him just to admit he was not there and it wss ok if he was at his house downloading music or what ever. I walked out and he followed. He swore up and down he was there the whole time. I didn't believe him. I dont think he was out with a prostitute, it was more like a misrepresentation of where he was and what he was doing which i had had issues with before. with him.
I got in my car to leave and he jumps in the passengers side. I asked him to leave me alone. To please get out. He woudn't. Was swearing up and down he was there and asking me to touch his sweaty shirt as proof. (which is funny bc it did not look as sweaty as Ive seen it beofre). I dont know, I was like really upset about the events of the week and it all came down on me in that instant. It really didn't matter if he was at the gym or not, sweaty shirt or not. I just wanted him out of the car. He swore on his mother's life that he was there and I coudl go ask the attendant . I just said youve done that before (swearing on his mohters life) and he got out of the car without another word.
He Tried calling but I didn't answer. I was so lost and confused. Upset. Hurt. You name it.
I will cut to the chase because this is gettign long again. We spoke last night and NOW he needs time to think about a proposal. I asked why he was so sure just two days before and now this. His repsonse was the gym incident.
I feel like such a fool and am fully prpepared to hear how stupid I am from all of you. I know it. I actually thought he'd seen the light. And you all told me that would never happen. I realize now it won't . and it makes me s.a.d.
theres emaisl back and forth between us that I may post if think it will help. Ones where I outlined all my faults and asked if he could live with them. And his response to all of that.
I dont know what I am looking to get by posting this here. I needed to type this all out. Everyone was right. I should have listened and went dark on him. Never sent that text. But you know I dont regret it bevasue it is the way I feel. I just regret that I fell in love with the wrong guy. He will never be emotionally ready to commit his life to someone. Or maybe he will and Im just not the one. I know this is not supposed to be about me and how im not good enough, but i cant help but feel that way in this very moment.
I've been following but not posting.
Okay, so you needed more proof that he's a controlling, abusive partner. I hope you have it now. As long as you play by his rules, he's all charming and ready to propose. But deviate in any manner, such as showing up at the gym where he is *supposed* to be but isn't, and then questioning him about it, and you must be punished. That's against his rules and you are now being punished by his withdrawing the proposal that he might have made on the trip.
Extremely manipulative and dangerous, in my opinion.
If you marry him, this WILL be your life.
[This message edited by sudra at 8:58 AM, April 6th (Saturday)]
If this was all so easy none of us would be here. Emotions and patterns and the way we do things are hard to break.
For some reason unknown to you right now you seem to not be able to stop communication. You text him again and you show up at the gym. Not saying you are not right that he probably was not there but you are the one now who is chasing him....and I mean no 2x4 with that....but just so you can *see* that you are perpetuated your own misery.
Its like we BS's in the beginning of detaching are still testing the WS to see if WE are not crazy. If that makes sense. We keep putting outselves in the line of fire so to speak one more time to see if they really are the assholes they seem to be. But we just did not see it before, whether it was love hormones or that mimicking mirror everyone talks about when attraction first starts or WHATEVER it is we just did not see it in the beginning.
But you ARE seeing it right now, your brain knows it but your heart has not let go. But your brain, that really logical part of you is screaming at you that none of this is right or OK. You are just too nice and too caring to let go and he feeds on that.
You are getting there. Baby steps. Pretty soon you won't want to beat yourself up any more and you will stop chasing him. You will see he was never worth your time.
youre right i totally asked for this by going to gym and responding to requests to communicate. dont know what to say...
Take another read of the abuse cycle. He went hot and heavy with the sweet until he got you hooked again and then the lies and gaslighting started again.
Read up on emotional abuse and manipulation so you can be prepared for what he does next. Despite your text to him, he's not special- he's just like all the other men who try to control.
Four years is a drop in the bucket compared to decades when you choose to spend your life together. One day you will find a man that will make you feel like four days with him should last a lifetime and a lifetime feels like four days because its not a struggle, it's not a fight, instead it's a true companionship.
So he wants the girl who will pine and waste away thinking of him, (every man she kisses she will see him....) he wants the girl that will always put him first above herself, who will have to forgive him anything because she is so lost without him, that she could never recover... He wants the insecure girl who will forever question if she is good enough, pretty enough, fit enough...
But he doesn't want the girl who expects him to be where he says he is. He doesn't want to be held accountable. He refuses and withdraws his love.
And what are marriage vows if not a promise to be accountable to one person...?
Seems pretty clear to me, that this is what he is showing you.
I get that you want him to feel what you are feeling - to know what he has done - to see what he is losing. That desire for - if nothing else - at least some sense of closure.
Sorry to say, but I think it is clear, that you are not going to get it. He doesn't understand. He is either unwilling, or more likely, (by what you've posted here)simply incapable of understanding.
It takes a while to wrap your head around that - that someone you love and care for -- someone you would give your life for -- wouldn't do the same after all the years invested, or heck even give you the time of day unless you asked for it in the right way...
But eventually, it will sink in - When you stop bargaining and dwelling on the what ifs... when it can't be denied anymore, when the anger has come and is waning... eventually you come to acceptance and start moving forward. Yes, "we" were right - but only because we've already btdt and wear the T-shirts...
[This message edited by Take2 at 2:27 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]
Im going to focus on something people have not yet honed in on...you admitting your (so-called) faults to him. Thats amunition to an abuser. He can and will use it against you directly or indrectly.
If you dont give this up, you will end up believing what he says about you. Spoken from experience, here.
We talked on the phone for 5 hours today. It was hard exhausting emotional. I felt hope sadness despair all emotions one can think of. It was the longest and hardest conversation I've ever had. I don't feel any progress was made either. It was a lot of him sobbing and apologizing then blaming me. I am sucked dry of feelings. I'm just numb now. We left it that he is still unsure of marriage (our fighting being his big holdup - which makes a hell of a lot more logical sense then my attitude towards health. It ended amicably and mutually. We cried apologized to each other for things said, done, hints left unsaid etc. and said i wouldn't wait for him , but if he changed his mind on a future with me to contact me. And only then ...barring a medical emergency. It feels like a breakup all over again and I'm looking forward to the day when I don't wake up with a black cloud over my head feeling no excitement for the day. I don't expect that to come soon, but I need to feel a little improvement so I can feel I'm moving into a direction .
I just want to thank all of you incredible people for reading through my nonsense, giving such sage advice, taking time out of your days to thoughtfully respond to my lame issues. It is really comforting to know there are good people out there who care. This is an amazing group of highly intelligent people who help without asking for anything in return. Ill be forever greatful for finding this forum.
So from the bottom of my heart, thank you all!!! I know ill be ok one day. I'm going to post the last email exchange we had. Not to soloicit advice from anyone, just so I can have this all in one place. I have a feeling I will read this thread 100 times by the time I am done.
Windows thanks for the ebook. I read it last night and it did make me feel better. If anyone else has recommendations for my situation let me know. Looks like ill have a ton of free time on my hands now. Love to you all and if I'm able to help in anyway I'm more than willing . Just shoot me a pm. I've been at this so long, I've turned into quite the little detective.... I surprise myself sometimes.
My email to him
I feel there are some things you need to know about me. My flaws. I am aware of them, after all I am my worse critic and you know that. And Iím not saying I wonít ever fix any of this stuff. But when considering planning a life together, you need to take the ďpresentĒ me not the ďpotentialĒ me.
im bad at remembering to pay bills
i am a messy cook
i like to eat unhealthy stuff and spoil myself at times
i will never get too fat because my father left my mother for exactly that reason. And it has affected so deeply me in ways I can never explain .I have had multiple eating disorders. If it literally kills me, no one will EVER divorce me bc i am too fat. You have no way of knowing how that feels because it didnít happen to you, but this is very very serious.
(because you had mentioned something similar as a term for marriage I went to a very dark place and im not sure im out of it yet)
i will be VERY protective of my kids if Iím so lucky to even have one
i will not back down when i perceive you being unnecessarily mean to me. I will stand up for myself.
i dont fold the laundry perfectly
i am not the most ardent cleaner. I will most likely not clean things to your standards
I like to do things fast and efficiently. I am different than you. You take your time and do things thouroughly. I am NOT built that way. My mind does not work that way.
i will be forgetful
i love salt
i love bubbly things to drink it makes my stomach feel better
i donít love working out
if i have a health problem and medication can help, i will take it.
Sometimes I donít feel like answering the phone.
I need you to think about whether these things are going to make you angry to a point where your mood is affected for an hour or even a week. (think about how mad you got when I didnít keep the doorway clear when moving Ė when I told some people close to me that story they were horrified)
If you see yourself getting angry at these things and them affecting YOUR mental health, then we just arent a match. Plain and simple.
I need you to accept blame. You are not perfect and sometimes you act like you are. Like you can do no wrong and anything that has happened that is wrong has nothing to do with you. You are a master at shifting blame. You need to be accountable. It wont be the end of the world if you did something wrong and you are to blame. I would probably cry tears of joy if I got angry about you for something and you didnít turn and try to make it my fault. You are seriously so good at that.
You really do need work on yourself and you need to admit that. I need to work on myself too. It scares me so much when you canít admit things. If you could just admit that you have some problems it would make me feel 1000% better. Because if you know you have issues then I can live with that. But if you have issues (being controlling is one that comes to mind Ė also needlessly disrepectful) and you deny them completely that is something I cannot live with. not for very long anyway.
i will not be told by another human being what to put in my body or not put in my body Ė obviously not talking street drugs or drinking 7 days a week
if i feel youre not attempting to really understand me i will shut down. You donít want that. You will not be happy if im not happy. There is truth to the age old idiom Ė Happy wife, happy life
i will smack my food at times
I will get animated and talk too loud at times
i will ruin something like a pan or a countertop again
i will be wrong
I will embarrass you at some point
i need a gentle soul who is forgiving patient and understanding and i need you to REALLY think about that and whether you can be that person because i
wont be happy and the relationship will fail at some point if that is not what im getting. I also need to feel that my
opinions, thoughts, feelings are valid and top priority of yours. This is not a wish list, these are my boundaries and cannot go without them. ever.
You have to do some self realization. That you can be very cold hearted and disrespectful. It creates this vicious cycle bc I will not be talked to disrespectfully
without fighting for myself. I saw too much of it growing up and it unleashes a beast inside of me. An extremely mean, angry person with words that can cut deep. I donít want that to ever come out, but
both myself and my brother and sister are this way. and we can really explode when disrespected or pinned in a corner. I have seen myself do it and I have seen them do it
and it is scary for all involved. you have no idea how we grew up and you need to be considerate of that when your temper flares up.
i will periodically check up on things and verify because my trust was broken and i can never blindly trust again. to anyone. that
part of me is gone for good. You should not get angry about it because it just looks like you have something to hide.
it shouldnt faze you that i want to look at something because there is nothing bad to hide.
Im going to do things you disagree with or dont like. because i am not perfect. unless i slept with your best friend or hurt one of your
loved ones, you cannot berate me, make me feel unimportant, or less than good enough. You can get angry all you want but you need to deal
with how you get angry. and silent treatment is not the way. It is a form of mental control.
you like things done your way and i need to be able to do things my way too- i am different than you and i will want to do things differently
you need to care about what i was missing and what you could do to make me feel happier. not only that, because really i tell you without you even asking asking. But you need to LISTEN to me when
I'm telling you what I need to be happier. Love, patience, unconditional love, honesty, quality time, RESPECT. A public promise that you will love me forever.
I am a smart person and I will know if you are listening to me, working on things, or not. I will react acciordingly.
Please please please. This is IMPORTANT TO ME. This is the rest of our lives we are talking about. Our happiness. Our legacy on the universe. Think about these things.
If you still want to get married after youíve thought long and hard, then I am available April 29th to go away for however long you would like. I dont want to plan it myself. I dont want to plan my own proposal. That is not how it should go.
This part is up to you and the ball is now entirely in your court. If saying these things, or after thinking about these things Ė you change your mind. That is entirely ok. What I ask of you is to TELL ME. DO NOT KEEP ME IN THE DARK. iF YOU ARE NOT SURE THAT MARRIAGE IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT NOW THAT IS OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I do feel that is what youíve been telling me both directly and indirectly.
What is NOT OK is not telling me that just because you donít want to lose me. I am ready for the next step, and these are my boundaries. I cant be your girlfriend anymore. Not one more minute. If it scares you to marry me then DONíT. you will be happy without me, please donít think that you wont. Time heals all wounds.
And I will always have a special place in my heart for you