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He wont propose because I dont view health as importance as he
Suspicious, my heart goes out to you. I just have one thought after reading this entire thread:
Relationships shouldn't be this hard.
Obviously, relationships go through rough patches and even complete devastation (aHEM, why we're all here.) But at this point, you are mentally, physically, and spiritually exhausted. It makes sense, logically, that you're returning again and again to the same behavior/cycle - hell, it's all you've known for the past 4 years. It takes time and practice to change those thought patterns and behaviors. It absolutely can be done, but it's going to take some work on your end.
I think you and he have lost sight of the main issue here - that he CHEATED, and has no interest in helping you heal.
Not to mention...he's MEAN to you.
You're doing great by starting to honestly look at the situation in its reality - keep it up, and hang in there.
Here, lets pretend he does surprise you.
You're at Disney, enjoying your life, hanging out, the Magic Castle show starts, and he has spent a good chunk of his trillion dollars and mesmerized the Disney staff with his singing penis so he can swoop out of the tower on a jetpack and inflate Drive-in Theater jumbotron screens to hover in the air to project his awesomeness for what you know is coming next: his proposal to you!
You say, right there in front of ten thousand people, many of them dressed like princesses and rats and strange creatures whose names escape me, in a laughing voice, merrily twinkling:
Because even if he did all that shit do you really think it'd be about how special he thinks you are? I'd put money on it being about him showing off how awesome he is. If he wanted to show you how special you are he'd apologize for hurting your feelings and give you a hug. Apparently it'd be cheaper to shop for fist sized diamond rings and jetpack proposal settings than it would to just apologize, though.
Stay NC, and if he does surprise you, Just Say No. Like he's heroin without the fun part, just the big diseased fucking needle that will drive you into a chemical freakout.
He wants you broken. Think of marriage to him as a cult. He wants to completely break you and then retrain you the way he wants you to be. No independent thought, no fight left in you ... no resistance to him doing whatever the fuck he wants
If he calls. Don't answer.
If he shows up. Don't answer.
He mentioned on our last convo he was looking at rings an proposal locations
He's manipulating you.
And it worked...because you started worrying about being *surprised* by something.
This guy is BAD, BAD NEWS, Suspi.
Just. Say. No.
Don't JADE: justify, argue, defend, or explain yourself. He doesn't want to hear it. He WON'T hear it.
Wipe this guy off of your *brain-map*.
Its dawning on me that I need to cut him off completely. Forever.
I almost want to let him know so he doesn't hold out hope or try to act like a 'good' boy because there's a chance of reconciling with me. He mentioned on our last convo he was looking at rings an proposal locations and I really don't want him to surprise me with anything. Is sending him a text or email saying there's no hope of us getting back together and I'm moving on a bad move?
I just don't want him showing up at my house with a ring and tears in his eyes. That sounds like my worst nightmare at this point in time.
I have a feeling I have not heard the last from him and he will make this break Impossible. This is a long road ahead. Impossible to break free and won't take no for an answer. (I know from experience - have tried to leave many many times)
He has all my furniture and clothes in his warehouse. And my rommate's mattress. Now we dont need these things until October but it is best to get them now or wait until then?
As you said, you have to cut him off completely.
Then you go on to bargain for four ways in which you can talk to him again!
You already know this, but read it again: YOU talk from the heart, he doesn't listen. There is no "one last time" with him. You already ended it with him and HE DID NOT CARE.
Last time you ended it with him he didn't even listen to you. He simply used your words (and it doesn't matter to him which words they were, break up words or words of love - if you're talking to him at all, he'll use it) to manipulate you into heartrending emails and 5 hour phone calls in which he once again tries to crush your pride and your free will. And that's what he'll do again when you call to "tell him it's really over".
From your other statements - he won't let you go, he'll make it impossible, he'll keep reeling you in - there is one thing you are forgetting. This is not the HIM-SHOW. His feelings do not matter in this situation. YOU are in control of this. YOU are the one who is leaving him. He does not get to "force" you into a relationship against your will.
Do you know what you call an ex boyfriend who won't take no for an answer, who keeps calling and showing up at your front door - tears and ring or empty-handed - despite your forceful requests for him to leave you alone? A stalker. It's illegal.
Do you have a male friend or coworker? Do you have a female friend with a kind husband? If so, regarding your stuff, I would simply tell him that two friends will be available on whatever day to pick your things up from his warehouse. One of those friends should be a man. Not for protection, exactly, but because men like your SO always seem to have a different "act" for men than women. They are usually more threatened by men and wary around them. My strongest advice would be for you to not go with them.
Whatever you decide to do, just know that you have a good support system here on SI and if you feel like sending him a text or email, why not just post it here first and get it out of your system, and maybe that will make it easier not to end up in another run-in with him?
[This message edited by circe at 2:06 PM, April 7th (Sunday)]
This guy is batshit crazy riding the fucking crazy bus with a "i am the president of the crazy club" button on.
I've just read most of this thread (skipping over the tediously long and narcissistic passages from Me-Boy) and I have to say MY BRAIN HURTS.
Suspicious, you've given this freak wayyyy too much ammunition with which to hurt you.
And it's working! Look at how you're hurting!
Sweet Jesus, please, run far and fast, change your number, block him from your email, get a restraining order and get on with your life.
This man won't stop until you are a smoking pile of wreckage.
I disagree about the sick part. Not all selfish, self-obessessed perfectionist, arrogant assholes are sickNo, but some are. Whether he's personality-disordered (sick, though in a way not particularly amenable to change, and usually worsening with age) or an asshole is ...well, tomato, tomahto. Either way, his behavior is sick. Whether he's able to change it is the only real question. Central to change is the desire to change. He is clearly demonstrating that that's not among his plans. So whether he's sick or an asshole is moot.
And Suspicious's response, currently, is sick, too. The good news about that is that she can change; she just has to make the decision to do so.
Suspicious, you are mistaking crisis and chaos for passion, and thinking that this "passion" is a marker for love.
Your interpretation is faulty. He doesn't love you. Not the way healthy people love. He loves how he feels when he manipulates you. He likes winning.
The thing is, relationships are supposed to be partnerships of equals who wish only the best for one another.
This man is not a partner in any sense of the word. He is positioning himself to be your opponent. On a good day, perhaps he relishes the role of benificent teacher. That's not the role of a romantic partner, either.
Can he learn to love healthily? Maybe. But not if he is not strongly motivated to to so--and his behavior and words demonstrate NO willingness or desire (or ability) to do so.
Without very strong motivation, nothing will change. Ever. Are you okay with spending your life with a man who's just peachy with the notion that there's something wrong with you---and who uses that as justification lying and cheating---and blaming you?
Please, Suspicious. Stop translating chaos, crisis, and abuse as love. It may create the same heightened feelings as some of the more positive stuff associated with love, but it's as far from love as you can get.
He does not love you. He loves controlling you.
Once you detach and regain your equilibrium (something you will find very hard to do as long as you are still giving him audience), you will see this very clearly.
If he is unwilling to be the man you deserve, please work to accept this sooner rather than later. He's shown you who he is. Believe him.
[This message edited by solus sto at 6:36 PM, April 7th (Sunday)]
I want you to try something
Buy a new phone with a new number, give all your friends etc your new number. Keep the old one going for this wanker.
Then I want you to go NC for two days, see the activity on your old phone.
ETA: my friend actually did this it helped a lot
[This message edited by lauren123 at 12:07 AM, April 8th (Monday)]
I'm going to post every damn text I get here. Didn't hear from him at all yesterday •. Today this-
I'm going to make an appointment to see a professional. Would you be open to doing a couple of sessions together if suggested?
Did you reply? If not that's great I would of had difficulty not replying!!
All I can tell you is what I would be thinking if that text was sent to me right now. "Thinking" because I wouldn't respond....
Would I have been open to couples sessions a long time ago? Yes. Am I now? Absolutely not! I'm not about to sit in a room and have you use a professional as the next weapon to manipulate me with. I don't need validation that you're a twisted fuck. I know enough. NC NC NC
Feel free to go and read my thread "R may be ending..." I broke away from mine this week. Feels great. Sending strength your way. Good luck. (and a gentle reminder, I still believe you should just stop reading his anything.....stop listening and stop giving him a door to hurt you.)
I am in shock. He never believed in counseling. Ever! And I don't see him even being honest with an ic. He can't even be honest with himself.
And no I am not responding. Nor am I going with him.
Guys I've been reading a ton and I realize he will never ever change. Narcissism IS his personality. And from what I read that never goes away. They are harmful people and I've been in a war zone for years. Sleeping with one eye open, pleadig with him to treat me right, crying, numbing, isolating, going crazy. I realize I can never ever go back to that relationship . It's not healthy for me
I realize I can never ever go back to that relationship . It's not healthy for me
Good, now you're aware. Once you're aware, you can't become unaware. Even if you relapse and return, it'll forever change how you view him. You'll only get stronger and more self-loving from here. Your self-worth will return, and once it does, you'll protect it just as you would your own child. You're worth it. Keep moving forward.
KUDOS on not responding. That's step one of NC. Here's what you can expect now.
1. He'll ramp up his attempts to get you to engage.
2. He'll promise the moon and the stars (e.g.: suddenly willing to do counseling) in order to hook you again. I'll see if I can find the Hoovering thread to bump for you about this tactic.
3. When you consistently maintain your NC, he may turn from carrots to sticks. This can be anything from talking shit about you to friends and family all the way to stalking, threatening, or actually lashing out at you with physical attacks or property damage. And before you say, "Oh, he'd never go that far," stop yourself cold. He could. It has happened many times to members here. There is no such thing as being overly cautious in these situations.
So, all that is stage 1 of NC, and that's likely plenty for you right now.
Stage 2 of NC is removing him from your own thoughts and actions. That's the more difficult part, and it's damn near impossible when he's still actively trying to engage you. But for now, pay attention to your thought processes. Take note of how often you catch yourself thinking about him, your relationship, etc. You will astonish yourself with how much real estate he has in your brain.
Hang in there.
When I get to the sticks portion of texts and emails . The nasty side when he's mad that I'm not budging. I can totally see him going through all his bank statements and add up all the fancy dinners (we did at least one every weekend) the trips, the jewelery, all the things he helped me with financially and saying.
" I spent $93000 on you during the course or our relationship and this is how you repay me?"
That's going to be the hardest stick / branch/ trunk ever bc it's a main reason I stayed for so long
Not bc I'm a gold digger. I make a good living. But because it was very generous of him and I interpreted that as love in my warped mind
[This message edited by suspicious247 at 7:44 AM, April 8th (Monday)]
Since you are getting support here he is seeing the change in you. He knows he's losing his hold on you and he will use whatever trick he can think of to reel you back in. This time it is counseling. Next time it will be something else that will make you say "He never ever believed in such and such but he's willing to do it for ME!" then you'll think he has finally changed so you should at least hear him out.
This cycle will continue for as long as you'll let it. It's cat and mouse. You run he chases. You run and hide and he pulls out cheese to tempt you. You cave and he thinks "Ha. That was fun".
Everyone has a price. He is a successful businessman. He knows that if he keeps offering, you will eventually sell out. The more you wait the higher the offer becomes. marriage proposal, love, attention, children, counseling, fancy trips ... What's next? Maybe he'll offer to buy you a house and tell you that your future kids will live there. I don't know what's next but I know there is more up his sleeve. Why? Because he will win at all costs! It is not in his nature to lose and, in his mind, to lose will feel like death to him. He fears that it will destroy his very soul if you make the final decision to end it. His goal in this game is to get you back so HE can toy with you and break you again. That feeds his power hungry nature and reinforces in his own mind that he is the greatest man ever.
The trick for you now is to see him for who he really is, not for who you really wanted him to be. Imagine for a minute that he didn't have success, power and money. That he just had a normal job with normal devoted friends. That he lived in a normal house and ate what normal people eat. Ask yourself, would I still tolerate this person treating me the way he has for 4 years?
This may be silly -- just a suggestion -- print out some of his really obnoxious statements and our responses to them (especially the funny ones), enlarge them, and tape them to your bathroom mirror. Then tape up your statements re how you're going to ignore him and how bad you know he is for you. Maybe put this a few places around your house, places where you might feel weak. Do you have friends to support your resolution to dump him? Do you have habits to keep your mind off him? (Oh, and start going to a gym that you KNOW he won't go to.) Join a club, start some new healthy habits. (Healthy in mind, I mean.) And maybe go to IC yourself to get the all the toxins you've accumulated over the years from this guy out of your system.
Good luck, and STAY STRONG!
Good for you, susp!!! No, don't respond!!
I totally agree with windowsnotwalls that people like him use IC as yet another weapon. He does not want to go to fix himself - he doesn't think there's anything wrong with him. He wants to go to trap you into a professional agreeing WITH HIM that you are the problem. And manipulators like him can get a clueless IC to eat up the superficial charm, become part of "his team" and then both will turn on you. PLEASE don't go with him, no matter what. Oh it's just the worst. It is part of what happened to me with the partner I had who sounds eerily like your SO, and probably eerily like the NPD/abusers of most people who have encountered them.
I also agree with nik that you need to be prepared for him to up the ante, and shift around quite a bit in his methods to entice you back into the abuse cycle. The only thing you can do to break it is stay out of it completely -NC. No other action works. No conversation, no counseling, no "aha" moment, nothing. Just NC.
In my case, and I know others have had similar experiences, my own relationship with this type of person only ended when he completely shocked me by throwing something at me - hard - when I tried to walk away from an argument. He was NEVER physical before -he was a pacifist, he meditated, he was a kumbayah health nut like your SO, he came from a wealthy family, he was skinny and biked everywhere rather than drive - NOT the profile of a physical abuser. I was shocked when it happened, literally couldn't believe what I'd just experienced. I was so shocked I told my friends, and they took pictures of my back and told me that they would go to the police if I ever saw him again. And so I wanted to "protect him" and "not ruin his future" and that's how I ultimately went NC, so my friends wouldn't report him to the police. Pathetic, right? It's like I escaped through some wormy enabling back door. But within 3 weeks the fog cleared and my reasons for NC shifted to being ashamed I had been with him so long, embarrassed at what it took to end things and disgusted by the thought of him. It took a couple of years to fully recover though.
I think you're stronger than I was though, susp. And smarter. And for sure you have a huge amount of backup in the people of SI and those who have experienced this themselves. My own friends were operating from tons of caring, but not much experience in abusive relationships. I feel like if I had known how typical my pattern was, and how dangerous, and how likely to lead exactly where it ultimately led, I would have been more resolved to work through the pain and end it with dignity, instead of the way it actually happened.
So please take care of yourself. Please don't think "he would NEVER..." fill in the blank. He might. And even if he doesn't go anywhere physical, his verbal, emotional and social manipulation may escalate to the same point. If you can cut it off, mentally, NC completely, just draw a line and hold it, you can avoid a lot of hurtful, harmful moments.
Are you in IC by the way?
Mostly because I was embaraased that my baby sister was marring a guy she knew for one year and Im no where closer at 4 years with mine...
...i could not wait, not one more day, to be proposed to
THis getting married business seems very high on your list of goals.
Do you have others? (goals? Interests?) Can you review them and bring them way up your list, you will need the distraction in the coming days of doing other interesting things that remind you how good life is.
And spend some time counting your blessings. You discovered his solipsism, narcissism, control,and abuse relatively early into the relationship, and before you had got shackled through house ownership, children or any other complicated commitment to this man.
I encourage you to spend some time reading in the NPD thread down in I Can Relate to see how lucky an escape you have had and also to go and post a hello in New Beginnings, there is a great crowd down there who can help you feel excited about your new beginning.
" I spent $93000 on you during the course or our relationship and this is how you repay me?"
If he did pull that on you, you can just smile because you are not a whore, nor are you a slave. A whore would think of repaying in sex, a slave would repay in servitude. An authentic free woman would know that she cannot be bought or sold, her freedom is her natural-born right.
You are a free woman. Hold your head high, Hon!
You're doing great. Your eyes are opening. Stay strong. This is a good path for you.
I had one other thought to share regarding any potential marriage proposal from him. I understand that you're not thinking along those lines now, which is very good. The thought is that if he were to propose (perhaps as art of his plan of escalating to "win"), just have in your mind that it is not a real proposal. In other words, he would break the engagement before you two were ever married. Yes, he might give you a big ring and/or make a big display, but he would not follow through. Why? Because you argued with him again, or he saw you drink a milkshake, or you are too thin now, or you don't understand him the way you used to, or because the magic is not the same, or because of something you wrote in one of your emails, or because ...
Many people on this site, myself included, have had to deal with something you're dealing with, which is, the person we were in love with was not and is not the person we thought they were. Admitting that and embracing it is difficult, but empowering.
I'm very proud of you.