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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: RE: wXH's visitation email. Seriously?!
GrievingMommy
♀ Member
Member # 28127
Question  Posted: 9:12 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RECAP: WXH lives with wife #3 (not OW) nine hrs away for almost three years. He has seen then for a total of six days in the last SIX MONTHS (total of two times back to town). Two weeks ago he Skyped with them for the first time in six months even after getting a few texts here and there stating that the kids really want to talk to him. And now nothing again. He hasn't been to town to see them since Dec 23rd. He has not once sent a text or email inquiring how his children are. He's also abandoned his four older children.

According to the divorce decree, he gets the kids a total of one month in the summer - need not be consecutive. The dates must be agreed upon by both parties (so he can't just demand dates and I have to let him have them).

We went through some MAJOR separation issues with DD4 stemming for them being away a lot last summer, so bad we involved a psychologist. She has made vast improvment since they came home Sept 3rd. And he now has had voluntarily way less contact with them now than even last year. Even the psychologist told him that he needs more contact with the children even if it's just Skype as they can at least talk to him and see him. So he's not a 'stranger' to them. Obviously he didn't listen.

I sent him an email a couple of days ago giving him a deadline of April 20th to get back to me for what he wants for his summer visitation....knowing it could be as soon as the beginning of June so I need to to know. He didn't take too kindly to that. lol Being a NPD asshole that he is, I'm not surprised. I told him back in January that my vacation with them is two weeks in August starting the 5th. I even asked him then if he had any idea so I could possibly book around his. No reply from him.

So now I need to formulate a reply. I will be telling him (among other things) that due to DD4's psychologist recommending that she not spend long periods from home, two weeks at a time will be the limit.

Here's his email:

GM,

As for my summer parenting time, no where does it state that my parenting time needs to be for two 2 week periods. It does, however, state that I have one month during the summer. I have told you previously that I would let you know specific dates and times when I had a better idea of my schedule. Due to recent circumstances, my exact schedule is unknown as to exact dates, which is why you have not heard from me prior. Therefore, at this point, it seems best to set up parenting time towards the end of the summer, tentatively.

This brings me to my next point. At four years old, DS4 and DD4 are in (pre)-pre-school; therefore, since at this point their schooling is not mandatory, that and such activities, including sports and your vacation time does NOT take precedence over my right to parenting time with the children. However, since the one month of summer is to be mutually agreed upon, I leave you the option to decide between either mid-July to mid-August OR the month of August in its entirety. Prior to any notice from you of any reasonably necessary specific summer dates where the children are unavailable, I have given you my availability (to the best of my knowledge and ability) to choose from. Therefore, you can work around my parenting time for optional or recreational scheduling as you so choose.

wife #3 and WXH


So this asshole expects me to give up my vacation time (Aug 5-16th) with the children? Sorry dude, the PTO schedule is done for the entire summer and filled up. There will be no changing it. What a prick.

Now I'm working on a reply...

[This message edited by GrievingMommy at 9:15 PM, April 8th (Monday)]


Me - Now 36 y/o
WXH: Now 45 y/o and 18+ hrs away -NPD asshole now onto wife #3.
My sweeties: 5 yr old B/G twins. 90% custody (or more) since 14 months old.
D-Day 4/4/10 PA('s?) & EA's - D'd 7/11

Posts: 1691 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Upper Midwest
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry GrievingMommy, but for some reason this made me laugh out loud:

At four years old, DS4 and DD4 are in (pre)-pre-school; therefore, since at this point their schooling is not mandatory, that and such activities, including sports and your vacation time does NOT take precedence over my right to parenting time with the children.[/quote]

He's just so awful and pompous! He sounds like my STBX's long-lost brother! I think I've actually received emails with those exact words.

Good luck with your response!


Posts: 1701 | Registered: Oct 2011
tesla
♀ Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear NPD Asshole,

Your logic is so convoluted in its verbal form that next time I would greatly appreciate it if you included a diagram. I'm afraid the heights of your intellect are dizzying.

Sincerely up yours,
GM


FTG.

um...seriously now. I don't have experience with the NPD (my ex-shat is more of a BPD) but I'd just shut the fucker down by asking the advice of my lawyer on it and then sending the response based on that. Who cares if he has to wait a few days to hear from you?


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4656 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
reelingbuthealin
♀ Member
Member # 22025
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't respond for about....a month. Then when you do, respond with your lawyer's blessing.

Do you have a copy of the email where you stated that you were taking vacation August 5 - 16?

Attach a copy of the psychologist's opinion stating that your daughter does not recognise him as anyone other than a stranger and should not be left alone for long periods of time. If he insists that it is necessary that she does, copy his obnoxious words, letter to letter, stating that 4 year olds don't have anything important to do, so he can change his schedule instead of them.

Make sure to never speak to this fuckhead. All coorespondence must be in writing. Be professional at ALL times.


I don't hold grudges, I just have a great memory!

Behind every woman who trusts no one, is a man who taught her to be that way!


Posts: 833 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: No mans land
FirstLoveGone
♀ Member
Member # 25957
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am constantly amazed at the douchebaggery our XSs can dish out when it comes to their own flesh and blood. It absolutely astounds me.

The email from your XH sounds like something mine would write as well. He is always trying to fit DD into his schedule as opposed to him trying to fit info DD's schedule. Un-fucking-believable!

Your XH can go pound sand. You have the recommendation from the psychologist as well as an agreement saying she does not have to go there for a month at a time. The schedule needs to be mutually agreed upon so he can shove his demands up his ass. My XH also does not know the meaning of "mutually agree upon."

Seriously FTG.


Posts: 1271 | Registered: Oct 2009
peridot
♀ Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure someone will come along to help you word an email.

I just wanted to mention that you have a therapist telling you it would not be good for the kids to be with him for a month at a time. I would use that in your response.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4782 | Registered: Feb 2008
dmari
♀ Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, April 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boy that was hard to read what a fucking moron!!

Of course, you should use tesla's email with this advise from reelingbuthealing Don't respond for about....a month. and I totally agree with FirstLoveGone The email from your XH sounds like something mine would write as well. He is always trying to fit DD into his schedule as opposed to him trying to fit info DD's schedule. Exactly.

I'm sorry you have to deal with such a arrogant asshole.


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2234 | Registered: Oct 2012
devistatedmom
♀ Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Next year, don't remind him of the deadline. Then when he does send his demands, oh, sorry, we didn't hear from you by the deadline, I make plans for xxx xxx and xxx weeks.

You don't have to make sure he remembers dates and gets his time. He's made it clear he only does what convenient.

I say don't reply. Until after the 20th.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5513 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:06 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree. Don't remind him anymore..ever. If he doesn't email you by the deadline,then he forfeits his visitation. My ex used to pull this all the time..he was to let me know by May 20,and if he didn't,I was under no obligation to let him have the kids.

I have the feeling if you stopped reaching out to him and trying to get him to be a father,he will just quietly go away. Which is probably best. No father is better than a father who ignores his children,doesn't visit them,can't even call them on the phone,etc.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7499 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Amazonia
♀ Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know the lawyer wife wrote this, right?

I would go with something like, "while the MSA does not state that your parenting time needs to be for two 2 week periods, if you will refer to the email sent by Counselor on DATE, you will see that this is in the best interest of the children. Additionally, if you refer to my email dated XXX you will be reminded that I have already booked plans for the children and I for August 5-16, and they are unavailable those dates. Please consider these conflicts with your request and let me know how you would like to reschedule."


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13756 | Registered: Jul 2011
Dreamboat
♀ Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is my reply to this asshole:

Dear NPD idiot,
As I have previously informed you, I have vacation plans from August 5-16. Please see the attached email from Jan xx, 2013 informing you of my plans. These plans cannot be changed or canceled at this late date.

Last summer DD4 suffered from significant separation anxiety during her summer visit with you. Her issues were so significant that she has been seeing a psychologist, firstName LastName. Ms./Mr./Dr. LastName has suggested that DD4 spend no more than 2 weeks at a time away from home to avoid future issues. Please see the attached recommendation from Ms./Mr./Dr. LastName. Also feel free to contact Ms./Mr./Dr. LastName to discuss this further. His/Her contact information is: xxxx

Given these parameters which I have previously communicated with you, neither of your suggested visitation times are viable. Please review your schedule and determine when you would like to take your visitation time with the children within these parameters. If I do not here from you by xxx xx, 2013 then I will assume that you plan to forfeit your visitation for the summer of 2013 and I will plan accordingly.

Regards,
GM


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17639 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
HopeImOverIt
♀ Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeesh, your Ex is pompous.

Does your MSA give a dealine for when you have to set up the summer schedule? It should have. Unfortunately even though you think a deadline of April 20th is reasonable, I don't see how it's legally binding on him. I don't see how waiting for it to pass helps anything unless that deadline is in the MSA.

Also, a well-crafted MSA should have a method of resolving the issue when the parents don't agree. I think that mine says I get my way in even years and Ex gets his way in odd years, or something like that. Too late for you, but could be a warning for readers who are still negotiating their divorce.

From his point of view, given how far away he lives, it's a lot of travel time (and expense) to have the children come for two 2-week periods rather than one 1-month period. How will they be getting there and back? Summer is still some time away so he could make the effort to skype regularly and get the children used to the idea of coming for 1 month.

Again, he's a jerk. But I would try to focus on the idea that your children have the right to get to know their father.

I would talk to the psychologist and ask him/her to write a letter to your Ex with recommendations about how to make the summer visit less traumatic.

As jerky as your Ex is, I recommend you focus on your kids and try to figure out how they can have the best possible summer experience with their father.


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 263 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's NPD and he's married to an attorney, so you need to proceed cautiously. You say that his vacation dates need to be mutually agreed upon--what about yours? Also, the deadline you set--is it outlined in the decree or did you choose it unilaterally? Finally, the psychologist's opinion is not part of the decree. It sucks, but you really need to get all of this hammered out.

See your attorney and make sure you have all of the T's crossed and I's dotted. It sounds like you are doing a good job of this, but you're not dealing with a normal human being.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20228 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Heavy Sigh
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Member # 34243
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like Amazonia's response of sticking to facts EXCEPT that I wouldn't add the part about assuming he is forfeiting his visitation time, because then that looks to outsider (mediator? judge?) as if that's been your goal all along. I would also remind him to step up talking to the kids via skype so he won't be a stranger? That this isn't about kids as his "property" or asserting his rights in a feud with you regardless of how kids are affected, but about kids' well-being and tender feelings.

He can split his weeks early July late August or whatever. Remind him that when the kids are older and know him better, a full month won't be an issue with you.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 9:00 AM, April 9th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Dec 2011
Amazonia
♀ Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wouldn't add the part about assuming he is forfeiting his visitation time

I never said that?


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13756 | Registered: Jul 2011
little turtle
♀ Member
Member # 15584
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At four years old, DS4 and DD4 are in (pre)-pre-school; therefore, since at this point their schooling is not mandatory, that and such activities, including sports and your vacation time does NOT take precedence over my right to parenting time with the children.

I don't understand why being 4 years old XH's parenting time comes prior to a scheduled vacation with their mother. The divorce decree says the summer vacation time must be mutually agreed. It doesn't say XH will give XW 2 options and XW must choose one.

I like Ama's response. Short and to the point.

What happens if you guys are unable to come up with agreed dates? Is there a default plan?


Failure is success if we learn from it.

Posts: 4185 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: michigan
GrievingMommy
♀ Member
Member # 28127
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies and email ideas! Ama, I don't think she meant you said it, she just put the two ideas in the same sentence.

Unfortunately, we don’t have a cutoff deadline for when he has to submit when he wants the children. I was just hoping he would get on it so I can plan things for them this summer. It was worth a shot and kinda worked as we’re now starting to work all this out.

Yup, I have a copy of the email from mid Dec stating that my deadline for requesting PTO for this summer is looming (mid Jan), so if he has any idea when he’d like to take the kids, I’ll try and work around it. If not, then we’ll hope for the best that his dates will work. No reply from him. I also have the text from January 25th stating my vacation dates and when the children will not be available.

I have contacted DD’s Psychologist to get a copy (or e-mail) stating what she told me. Hopefully she will. It just might be enough for XH to do what is right for DD or at least not keep fighting it. Either way, a month straight will not work for me no matter what.

I haven’t been after him as much as I could be for not having communication with the kids. But I feel I owe it to my Littles to at least let him know they want to talk to him. It falls on a deaf ear and he ignores it.

HopeImOverIt, he has to pick up and drop off the children for his visitation. He used to come to town to see them a lot more and he used to talk to them more. That all changed when he got remarried. He chose to move nine hours away almost three years ago, all the while knowing his six children lived here.

But I would try to focus on the idea that your children have the right to get to know their father.

Of course they have the right to know their father and I have done EVERYTHING in my power to make that happen. HE is choosing to ignore his children. I can’t make him Skype. Been there done that and got nowhere. I tried to get him to Skype before he came back for Christmas since he’d have them for three days and hadn’t seen them in three months…..nope, he couldn’t be bothered to.

I recommend you focus on your kids and try to figure out how they can have the best possible summer experience with their father.

This is a given. Of course I want them to enjoy their time with their dad, however this has nothing to do with that. It's all based on my children's wellbeing. I will not jeopardize my daughter’s progress and risk a relapse and see the terror in her eyes or the terrified screams when she’s left alone (or thinks she is because she can't see me) or thinks I’ve left her. Sperm donor, er I mean, father be damned. If he was doing all he could to be in their lives, like Syping for example, and doing what is best for the kids and staying in the present for them then maybe it wouldn't be such a huge shock for the kids.

I think I'll call my atty and see what she says about it.

It's not like I'm limiting him to a few weeks to pick from. He has all of June and July into August that he can have them. We don't have a fall back plan if we don't agree. I guess time will tell.

He will be severely pissed when I tell him that I am not giving up my vacation days with my children. Too fucking bad asshole.

FTG

[This message edited by GrievingMommy at 9:16 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]


Me - Now 36 y/o
WXH: Now 45 y/o and 18+ hrs away -NPD asshole now onto wife #3.
My sweeties: 5 yr old B/G twins. 90% custody (or more) since 14 months old.
D-Day 4/4/10 PA('s?) & EA's - D'd 7/11

Posts: 1691 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Upper Midwest
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, April 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GM, you are dealing with dumbasses. Go on your scheduled vacation and have a great time.

we don’t have a cutoff deadline for when he has to submit when he wants the children

Irrelevant. You *called* Aug 1- Aug 15 first. Way back in January. He is SOL.

he gets the kids a total of one month in the summer - need not be consecutive. The dates must be agreed upon by both parties

If that *need not be consecutive* is written into your agreement, then you're probably *golden* on this. If he wanted 4 consecutive weeks, then that is what he should have put into the agreement. He didn't. Too bad, so sad. Even the term one-month is vague(ish)....how does that *play out*? It could be 3 days each week for 10 weeks, right? That's 30 days....which equals a *month*, right? Or is it based on one of those 31 day months? A pain-in-the-ass L can get you all bogged down in the semantics of *what does a *month* mean.

your vacation time does NOT take precedence over my right to parenting time with the children

I'm coming in with the *semantics* again. The children not having school does not technically constitute *vacation* time as far as custody goes (in my state anyway). There is a specific clause in my custody agreement that allows Sultan and I X# of *vacation* days with the kids. <--Those *vacation* days will trump the normal visitation schedule. Regular school breaks for the kids don't count as *vacation* days.

You have proof that back in January(?) you *scheduled* time with the kids in August. He can either work around that, or he can force you both to spend money in court....only to hear the judge tell him to *pound sand*. Tell him to take you back to court.

Actually, DARE him to take you back to court. He's got a track record of being a *craptastic* dad. Yea, dude.....PLEASE.....go and attempt to *plead* your case to the judge.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8034 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
GrievingMommy
♀ Member
Member # 28127
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, April 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks gonnabe. When writing up the papers, I had them add that about it not being consecutive so he couldn't force it down the road. Now I'm glad I had them add it!

I was wondering how it would work as far as the 'month' went. Is it for 28 days or 31? I won't fight him if he wants them for 31 days.

That is interesting about the 'vacation days'. I've never heard of that before!

No matter what, he will see the proof of my notifying him about my time with the children in Aug!

Definitely SOL in my book.


Me - Now 36 y/o
WXH: Now 45 y/o and 18+ hrs away -NPD asshole now onto wife #3.
My sweeties: 5 yr old B/G twins. 90% custody (or more) since 14 months old.
D-Day 4/4/10 PA('s?) & EA's - D'd 7/11

Posts: 1691 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Upper Midwest
Crescita
♀ Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, April 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd play it dense. You are totally on the same page.

"Great, since you are available from the middle of July through the end of August, and I already have plans with them the first two weeks of August, they can visit with you the last two weeks of July, and the last two weeks of August."


Posts: 3399 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Topic Posts: 20

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