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The last couple of weeks I thought WH had been withdrawing emotionally again. So a couple of days ago I asked him to think about why. Tomorrow night we're supposed to go out with some colleagues of his for drinks, so that I can get to know them. So I said I needed to know tonight, so I know where I stand.

He told me a few things (about why he stayed) and it became apparent that he only talked about me in the past or future tense, and the same with our M. So I asked him a really scary question: "Do you love me now, with all my faults? Not some theoretical person I might become in the future, but all of me as I am?"

You see I'd already answered this. That I love him, all of him, even his faults, as he is right now, but yes, I need change for the future too for our M to be safe. And that if he chose to leave, I'd still love him but love him enough to let him go.

He took a while to think. He said that he didn't love every bit of me but that he did care for me. So I told him he needed to think about what he wanted to do (as in whether to stay). First of all he tried to get me to make the decision, but I didn't let him get away with that. Then he said he should go. Then he said he had only stayed for the children (something that I had told him from the very start was NOT enough for me).

I was devastated, went to our room and cried because my heart was breaking all over again. WH went to his study, got a suitcase and started packing. I phoned a friend who was in the middle of putting her children to bed, and she said she'd ring back.

Then he came in and told me that he'd think about it for 24 hours and let me know tomorrow evening. Then he went out for a walk.

So I phoned my old pastor and asked for him and other to pray. WH came back. Got WH to phone his parents and explain why I wasn't going round to visit in the morning (he told them we're having some more difficulties and we're deciding whether to stay together or not).

And then I suggested that WH take the day off tomorrow (so that he can think). So is he? After all, this is our M.

No. He's got to do a handover in the morning, so he'll take the afternoon off. SERIOUSLY?

He'd take a whole day if he was sick. But for our M?

I am beyond hurt and angry right now.

((((Fidelia)))))

Are you sure he hasn't taken the A underground...this is very cheater-speak IMO.

This has ILYBINILWY written all over it.

This wasn't exactly addressed in your last post, Fidelia.

I know it's scary to think that it's still happening... it would be easier to pretend he's just confused.

It just plain doesn't sound like that. Don't trust that what he's saying is what's really happening. You're opening yourself up to even more hurt.

(((Fidelia)))

((( Fidelia )))

I agree about the ILYBINILWY speech - just hasn't come right out and admitted it.

I'm so sorry.

OK. I went downstairs and said:

"I'm going to say something to you. I don't want your answer straight away. I want you to think about it and I want you to be honest with me. Are you still seeing OW2 or contacting her, or flirting with or seeing another woman"

Than I came back upstairs. And having typed all of this out, he's not come back up.

Not a good sign, is it?

Good for you! That took courage. What does your gut tell you?

And what did he do or whom did he call on his "walk"?

I don't want your answer straight away. I want you to think about it

Oh lordy - music to many WS's ears, "I get time to work on my answer?"

Not a good sign, is it?

Well... you gave him a lot of wiggle room, I don't think you're going to hear what you want.

[This message edited by Lucky at 5:53 PM, April 25th (Thursday)]

I agree. Giving them wiggle room is like giving them more rope to hang themselves with.

So he said No and No. But that he did see OW2 on a train a few months back (she didn't see him) and he should have told me.

I said "It's not about should, it's about what you wanted to do, and you didn't want to tell me"

I went downstairs for a glass of water. He came back down and I told him to sleep in his study tonight.

I came back upstairs started getting undressed and he walked in and I stopped and said I was getting dressed and to close the door. A few minutes later he knocked. I opened the door and he said (with a sad look on his face)he just wanted to wish me a goodnight. I automatically said "Goodnight" and then stopped and said "No. It won't be." And closed the door.

So just me tonight. This is going to be a very long night. I have a headache already.

Oh and I told him earlier that if he leaves I'm filing for divorce on the grounds of adultery and to not contest it.

I love him so much. But my gut says, how can he not know if he loves me after this long? My gut says, if he has to take a day to think about it, then I probably have my answer.

I have worked so hard at this M, but he doesn't seem to see that. It has been so painful allowing myself to be vulnerable and being hurt again and again. I now am starting to believe that he is regretful, but not remorseful. I suspect that if he leaves, he will not continue IC because I think he was just doing it to keep me happy, and not for himself.

Why has he put me through all this for 8 very long months?

Then he came in and told me that he'd think about it for 24 hours and let me know tomorrow evening. Then he went out for a walk.

Whoever he called on that walk has the answers, sounds like he's waiting for word from an OW about whether it's safe to leave you - will her door be open?

No. It shouldn't take a day to ponder if he loves his wife.

He is cheating again.

I am so sorry (((Fidelia)))

But that he did see OW2 on a train a few months back (she didn't see him) and he should have told me.

This is step one of the Trickle Truth where it will eventually come out that he's still cheating.

On some planet they think that if they give you a grain of information you will accept it as enough of a confession to stop pushing.

I'm really proud of you for asking. I'm ashamed of him for still putting you through this. Think about what you love about him - good times aren't a reflection of love. Commitment. Truth. Consideration. THESE are what love is made of.

I'm so sorry for you Fidelia. You knew, on some level you knew.

Sending you prayers and strength to get through this. (((Hugs)))

oh honey I am so sorry.

Your posts scream what a wonderful generous and loving person you are.

Take care of you and focus on your kids.

We can't change them - the change has to come from them.

Sending hugs and prayers your way.

Oh goodness, I'm so sorry. I'm not in R, but I'm responding because this is so very similar to what I went through in limbo/false R. I absolutely agree with the poster who talked about TT and the train comment. The same thing happened to me. He would "forget" to mention a meeting at work that she might be at, or some reason he had to send her an email. Yeah, that's because they were still in the A. The distance, everything, rings a bell. He was totally underground for more or less the whole time.

I know this is not the D/S forum, but I gently suggest not to let him call the shots. You are worth far more than letting him decide whether he loves you as an excuse to eat cake. Your gut is telling you what's going on. Take action. Take your power back.

(((Fidelia)))

IMO, it doesn't matter if he's in another/the same old A or not - his answer to your basic question shows he's just not a candidate for R.

And make no mistake: the problem is his, not yours. He could be loving; he's just choosing not to be.

It's not safe for you to love him. The 180 is your friend here.

I know this is devastating - if you take care of yourself, you'll get through this and thrive.

BTW, kudos for asking your question - it's the single most critical question for BSes who want to R. It's not your fault he came up with the wring answer. He's projecting his problems onto you.

(((Fidelia)))

It seems to me that he has been looking for ways to blame this on you from the beginning. And if I remember the story correctly, you were unlucky enough to run into a MC who validated him. I'm just grateful that you never seemed to fall for their line of bull.

That you could give and give and give the way you have and he could make those ice cold comments to you is just beyond belief.

I don't think he has made any progress. I don't think he wants to. It might be time to think about what to do next.

I would send you strength, but I think you already have lots. Use it for YOU this time.

xo

Thank you everyone. At the moment, I choose to believe he's not still in the A. I know that I may be wrong. He certainly didn't phone anyone on his mobile phone while he was out walking.

Late last night I relented and let him come back into bed (not for sex!) and he held me. He talked about how awful he is and what awful things he has done and how he can't believe I can love him because he can't love himself. And he kept saying sorry. I told him that love is not just a feeling, but a choice. That I have chosen everyday to love him. That he chooses who he wants to love. That he made bad choices for a long time and did bad things, but that they don't have to define him, they don't have to be who he is because he can make different, new choices.

We talked for a while, mostly I cried, he cried, whilst we were holding each other. And I thought, this may be the last time I am ever held like this. And this morning our youngest came into bed between us for a cuddle, being really sweet. And I had silent tears running down my face thinking this may be the last family cuddle that we have. And my eldest missed out.

BTW, I am taking my power back. I believe that WH is passive, if not passive aggressive (he doesn't agree). I feel like he wants me to make the decision for him to leave. In fact he tried openly to do that. I want him to know that if he chooses to leave, it is 100% his choice, just as the A was. But if he does leave, I will be filing for divorce as soon as I can. No limbo land or yoyoing if he decides to go.

I am so very sad. I believe that marriage is for life and that was what I committed myself to when we got married before God. But I can't keep WH promises for him.

What is so very sad, is that as a vicar, I don't believe that vicars should remarry after divorce. I also don't believe in sex outside marriage or in starting relationships with someone who you don't have at least some thought of marrying.

If he goes, I will never be held by someone in that way again. My sex life and romantic life will be castrated at the grand old age of 36.

What's also really sad, is that my FOO is pretty awful with a NPD dad and sister and a family that collude with them. I know that they love me in their way, but it's an unhealthy love. WH was the first person to choose to love me fully as I am. Now I feel that I am not a loveable person. I have given him so much love, despite all he has done, and yet he's not sure if he can love me in that way, that there are some parts of me he cannot love. I know that's more to do with him than me, but it hurts at the deepest level.