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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Letting go, but so nervous.
SAR681
♀ Member
Member # 36285
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really don't have anywhere else to discuss this where people will understand. So, your feedback is much appreciated.

We had our first MC appointment since D-day #2 on Tuesday (I had decided that my priority was IC until then). One of the issues we have been battling is that although fWH is doing great with the here and now stuff (complete transparency, etc.), I have concerns that he's not doing enough to gain insight on what went wrong. I would also like to see him doing his own research on ways to repair our marriage. He is reading Not Just Friends, but he's not making it a priority like I'd like to see. In IC, my counselor likened it to him putting a band-aid on it, while I want to clean the wound out.

Our counselor says that I need to let go of the control. She said that even though fWH SAYS he's willing to do whatever I need, that I can't drag him along, forcing him to do things my way. This absolutely makes sense, but it's terrifying!! FWH has a history of thinking everything is fine so long as I'm not moping around the house.

So, I think I'm going to make another MC session for 6 weeks (which is the next time we'd have the opportunity to go together) and hope that he's done SOMETHING. I don't WANT to split up, but can't continue having my needs overlooked. I'm scared. :-(


BW Me, 32 FWH - Him, 33
Married 9 years, together for 14
3 Kids: 5 yrs, 3 yrs, 18 months
MOW - my "friend"
DD#1 July 2012, admitted to an EA
DD#2 1/14/13, finally admitted to PA

http://endureevolve.blogspot.com/


Posts: 122 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Somewhere in Middle America
IGaveItMyAll
♂ Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would also like to see him doing his own research on ways to repair our marriage.
Did you tell him this?? I have a similar issue. Even though my WW is in IC she doesn't go as often as I would like her to and when she goes is really the only time I see her work on herself. I too want her to do research, read books and dig deep. You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make them drink. I just recently told her if she wants to help me heal the best thing she can do is to work on herself. But I think its important you tell your WS this. They can't read minds. Sometimes I think she is scared what she will find when she really digs. So I hope everyday she does. I feel your pain. My WW made an appointment for next week and is going to start going every week. I have also decided I am going to offer her the time to take for herself as much as I can (She is raising our D who is a toddler and works so time is often hard to come by)


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lucky
♀ Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 1:01 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hmmm.... maybe not 'drag' him along, but certainly having requirements met, and as such I wouldn't call it dragging along.

R is give and take, and a hell of a lot of it, BUT, having a voice in what you need, want, require etc., is part of helping you heal, him heal and the marriage to survive.
.

I would also like to see him doing his own research on ways to repair our marriage. He is reading Not Just Friends, but he's not making it a priority like I'd like to see

Gently. Step back and do give him a bit of kuddos, he's doing a hell of a lot more than most, less than some... Mr Lucky never read a single thing, not one single thing, and yet we are 8 years out, happier than ever, healthier than ever... I too was impatient with him, I wanted to snap my fingers and have him get on the ball with figuring out his crap.

I think I just don't like the wording your MC (?) used in 'giving up control'.


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
heforgotme
♀ Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our counselor says that I need to let go of the control. She said that even though fWH SAYS he's willing to do whatever I need, that I can't drag him along

This is a HUGE issue for me. In our "old" life, follow through was a big problem for him. And I explained to him from the beginning how it would be critically important to this process.

He is stalled on reading How to Help your Spouse Heal and hasn't posted on here yet. I have to practically staple my lips shut to keep from reminding him.

He does lots of other good stuff, but this is really important to me. Follow through makes me feel like I can count on him. For most of our marriage I couldn't, and I need to be able to know I will be able to in this "new" one.

Fingers crossed.......


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1083 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
What2Thnk
Member
Member # 37863
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our counselor says that I need to let go of the control.

I think I need to do this too. But, I haven't been able to.


Me (BS) 42 - Him (WS) 43
DD #1 7/19/10 2 year LTA EA/PA w/MOW - HSXGF#1; DD #2 6/6/12 4 mo EA (PA?) w/HSXGF#2; DD #3 12/15/12 3 week EA with random stranger. A whole crapload of gaslighting, minimizing, blameshifting, rugsweeping and TT.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your counselor's advice about letting go of control is kinda spot-on.

It is the difference between him doing what he needs to do or just checking off the items on *your* list.


You're probably nervous about it because you, on some level, understand that he doesn't *get it* and is going to mess it up without your giving him the *white-board* version.

I am not, and have never been, in R....so I can only offer you *conjecture* here. (but I have LOTS of experience in dealing with an unremorseful and *let's just rugsweep* WS)

Take a bit of time to think about your non-negotiables. Tell your WS that in order for you to feel *safe* in the marriage, he needs to do <x.y.z>. Be detailed about what you want. Be specific about what you need. Have concrete boundaries in place. ie: if you contact OW, you will have to leave the family home....or *if I find that you've lied about <whatever>, then <insert consequence>.

Lay out what you need in a very detailed fashion and inform your WS of what will happen if you do not receive what you need......and then leave him to it.

You can show the horse the water. Heck, you can even force the horse's head into the trough....but if that horse won't *drink it*, then there's nothing more for you to do.

It is a very scary place to be, no doubt. Either your WS will *step up* and start dealing with the situation that he created or he won't. If he does--> wonderful, because now he's giving you something to *work* with. If he doesn't? Well, then it's time to move away from the *emotional destructor*.

You deserve to be in a relationship/marriage where your needs are just as important as, and equal to, your spouse's.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8087 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Counselor is spot-on.

Two differences to keep in mind.

First, the control we THOUGHT we had in our marriage was NEVER there. We never can control another person. No amount of affection, gifts, date nights can control another person.

Second, the control over ourselves is absolutely critical.

One of MY issues is that I feel I have to be working intensely on an issue to get it resolved. As I go through MC and IC I am starting to really understand that MY way of coping is not the ONLY way of coping. And, truthfully, my go to way of coping is not always healthy for me..and that I need to find more ways to cope.

And with regards to my WW...as I suspect is the case with many WS...she is very internal.

Example...I will read a thought inspiring paragraph, digest it for a few minutes, then want to share it. My wife can read a whole book....digest for a week or more...then share her thoughts. I sometimes project myself into her and fear she thinks we are all better. This is wrong...I know that...but they way she process s and changes is very different then mine.

If it is different it is not as effective. This is an UNTRUE thought I have had. If you have a similar thought...check it! Visit with your IC about it.

My point is to try and be patient as your WS learns to change their coping mechanisms. For many of us...that requires US to change OUR coping mechanisms.

At times I dont very much feel like changing! Afterall I did not chose to bring an A into our marriage.

But I do love my wife, and she loves me.

We are in the worst part of our marriage...when the vows said for better or worse.

True R is a learning process...just like riding a bike. No one is a natural at this...we will fall. The key is to get back up and enthusiastically try again.

Hang in there SAR681...you are normal...this is scary...but you are growing into a stronger person each day.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:03 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4009 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Knowing
♀ Member
Member # 37044
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he in IC? That's where the real work happens. That should be a priority. MC is helpful but it's not enough to address the real reasons he had an A and lied to you for so long about it.

It's easier to fix an M than it is to fix a person. Maybe if you saw him working on himself, you might feel less of a need "to control".


Me: BW, Him: fWH
Together 12 years
My EA (?) 2005-2011
His STA/PA: D-day: 19/09/12
TT: 08/12/12

We are in R.


Posts: 698 | Registered: Oct 2012
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sometimes project myself into her and fear she thinks we are all better.

^^^^This is my problem, only he truly does think we are all better----that we don't need to talk about it anymore,that he doesn't need to look at anything or find out why he did it. He's just happy-go-lucky, back to his old life.

But I need to let go as well. I recently read on here that "I can't change him, he has to want to change himself."
I can push & push, but it wont work.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:25 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Reality
♀ Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SAR, thank you for posting this! Wow, this is all so apt. Thank you, everyone, for taking time to post, to share situations, and help everyone along.

It's such a shock to see people go through the same horrible things. It's awful to know other people live in the same pain, but it's such an amazing resource to better understand the real picture.

We're in exactly the same place with our spouses. I'm the one doing the research. I'm the one buying the books. He still floats away from the reality of it, even in the face of people telling him he has to prioritize this.

I feel so helpless, so looked over, yet again. I don't want him to be here because it's the easy thing. I want him to be here because this is what he wants and that he will fight for it, at least as much as he fought to be absent and involved with other women and escapist activities.

It's all true that it has to be internal for them. It's terrifying to know the true probabilities of them choosing to do this for themselves, when all past experience points to the fact that they... won't.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
SAR681
♀ Member
Member # 36285
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you tell him this??

Yes, I told him. He assured me that he would work on it. And I do believe that he was sincere when he said this, but he easily forgets things when it's not something that specifically interests him.

Is he in IC?

...sort of? We are both seeing our MC for IC as well. He has said that he doesn't mind counseling with her and that she knows her stuff. But for example, I made an appointment for him after he assured me one night that he was going to, but didn't. Then he complained that he wasn't ready. He said that he was working out a theory in his head and wasn't fully ready to discuss it yet. He has a tendency to close off - which has been part of the issue. But, our counselor even mentioned "If you get to the point that you think talking with another person will help, you can make an appointment with me."

If he TRULY is doing the work internally, that's fine. But the counselor suggested that he find a way to let me know where he's at - whether it's journaling (which would be my preference) or checking in with me regularly. But, I'd like to see some indication that he's doing SOMETHING productive.

I recently read on here that "I can't change him, he has to want to change himself."

I think I'm going to write this on a sticky note and put it on my mirror.

Deep breath.


BW Me, 32 FWH - Him, 33
Married 9 years, together for 14
3 Kids: 5 yrs, 3 yrs, 18 months
MOW - my "friend"
DD#1 July 2012, admitted to an EA
DD#2 1/14/13, finally admitted to PA

http://endureevolve.blogspot.com/


Posts: 122 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Somewhere in Middle America
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm the one doing the research. I'm the one buying the books. He still floats away from the reality of it, even in the face of people telling him he has to prioritize this.

I feel so helpless, so looked over, yet again. I don't want him to be here because it's the easy thing. I want him to be here because this is what he wants and that he will fight for it, at least as much as he fought to be absent and involved with other women and escapist activities.

Wow, are you inside of my mind? This is exactly what's going on in our house.

In fact, I posted about WH's escapism yesterday in R forum:"Topic: When a spouse is not present in the marriage "

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=494278

I wish healing us was more of a priority to him than his games, & that he put as much energy into it as he did with OW.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Reality
♀ Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mcher, thanks for the link! I read it and, yeah, different addiction, but same ole song.

My husband obsesses over pretty much anything fantasy: books, games, particular actors/characters, etc.

Both times he was involved in the intense EAs,

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=494273

it was about people peripheral to whatever circumstance had been addicting. A new prestigious internship? Fantasy time and acting out with co-workers. Stressed about school? Obsess over an on-line game and cultivate relationships with groups of women also in the game.

If there's stress, discomfort, self esteem issues - you know, LIFE - that's his trigger to immerse in fantasy and literally create a world where our family doesn't exist. I don't exist. The kids don't exist.

It doesn't matter what the addiction is: sex, drugs, alcohol, sports. The behaviors are all the same. I read my first book on the addictive personality the week of DD#2 and it floored me. It was like reading a book specifically about my husband.

It's so hard to find statistics for successful addition rehabilitation. There's such a propensity for "falling off the wagon" whenever things get challenging.

I really, really, hate this club we're in. Don't think less of yourself because you're a functioning, reasoning person who wants to fix a serious issue. That's not the problem. The problem is that the other person involved isn't.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Reality)))
just read your link. I am so sorry for all the pain your H is putting you thru. Sending you strength


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Reality
♀ Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mcher, right back to you.

I keep reading everyone's tags; giving details about separation versus divorce versus reconciliation. I wish I had something definitive to put there. I guess I'm here in Reconciliation because I think that's, even functionally, all that can happen right now.

I'm supporting him financially. I'm his only "real" contact. He can't go to his family; heck, he's staying with mine.

If it works for you, SAR, keep us updated. I'm rooting for you. All my best wishes for him to be closer to the man he should be for you.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
SAR681
♀ Member
Member # 36285
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much, Reality. I read your post and I can relate to so much of what you said.

I will say, that he's no longer completely detached from the family - as he was before. I think that he just doesn't see the benefit of dwelling on the bad (the past) and wants to focus on the good (the present/future). But, I'm not going to be comfortable moving beyond the past until we've learned all that we can from it.


BW Me, 32 FWH - Him, 33
Married 9 years, together for 14
3 Kids: 5 yrs, 3 yrs, 18 months
MOW - my "friend"
DD#1 July 2012, admitted to an EA
DD#2 1/14/13, finally admitted to PA

http://endureevolve.blogspot.com/


Posts: 122 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Somewhere in Middle America
RockyMtn
♀ Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blakesteele - that post has got it going on, sir. I like this part the best:

If it is different it is not as effective. This is an UNTRUE thought I have had. If you have a similar thought...check it! Visit with your IC about it.

I think what I struggle with sometimes - and probably SAR, too - is that when people process differently, perhaps more internally or at a slower pace, or in a less organized, less urgent fashion - it sure feels lazy. It feels like stalling. It is a really fine line and hard to determine. Is this how you feel SAR? Or are you certain he is stalling/avoiding consistently?

I also think there is something to be said about, you know, accepting that certain things aren't going to work for the WS. Maybe he's not a reader. Is it worth forcing that one (and it is just one) way of processing R? But when there is a compilation of non-work, i.e. no books, no IC, no digging into the whys via journaling, message boards, etc. I feel that there needs to be some combo of stuff being pursued, but I think its a lot to ask for everything (going back to blakesteele's point that different does not mean ineffective). But if there is no movement on any front - that's worrying. So what is he doing for R that you think is positive? Anything?


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
SAR681
♀ Member
Member # 36285
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think what I struggle with sometimes - and probably SAR, too - is that when people process differently, perhaps more internally or at a slower pace, or in a less organized, less urgent fashion - it sure feels lazy. It feels like stalling. It is a really fine line and hard to determine. Is this how you feel SAR? Or are you certain he is stalling/avoiding consistently?

Well said. I don't know for certain that he's stalling or avoiding - my concern is really that historically I have joked that he has "the memory of a goldfish" - unless of course, it's something that interests him - then it consumes him completely. So, I do believe that he has good intentions, but I need some follow through!

I also think there is something to be said about, you know, accepting that certain things aren't going to work for the WS. Maybe he's not a reader. Is it worth forcing that one (and it is just one) way of processing R? But when there is a compilation of non-work, i.e. no books, no IC, no digging into the whys via journaling, message boards, etc. I feel that there needs to be some combo of stuff being pursued, but I think its a lot to ask for everything (going back to blakesteele's point that different does not mean ineffective). But if there is no movement on any front - that's worrying.

Yes, yes, yes!! I think a part of it is that he views psychology as common sense and therefore doesn't believe that an "expert" would know better than him. But, even so I would be happy with journaling or even discussions on what's going on in his head that I don't have to initiate.

So what is he doing for R that you think is positive? Anything?

Honestly, he is ROCKING the "present" stuff. Complete transparency - he installed a GPS program on his phone and encourages me to check it. He has given me all of his passwords and told me how he got away with stuff previously. When I expressed concern over his work email because my only access to that was on his phone and he could easily delete anything questionable before I saw it, he put his work email on my phone too. When I questioned him about an email that disappeared from his inbox and was not in the trash, he took a picture of the computer screen at work to show me that it was in the trash (I wasn't worried about it based on the sender and topic, just fishy that it disappeared). When my alarm went off from the GPS program telling me that he was within a certain mile radius of OWs house, he video messaged me from his phone to show me that he was where he was supposed to be. When I tell him that I'm triggering, he does what he can to support me. He has answered any question that I've asked. And (as far as I know) he has maintained NC.

BUT, I have major reservations moving forward until he does the work on his past - not matter what his method is! :-)


BW Me, 32 FWH - Him, 33
Married 9 years, together for 14
3 Kids: 5 yrs, 3 yrs, 18 months
MOW - my "friend"
DD#1 July 2012, admitted to an EA
DD#2 1/14/13, finally admitted to PA

http://endureevolve.blogspot.com/


Posts: 122 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Somewhere in Middle America
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, April 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But, even so I would be happy with ..... even discussions on what's going on in his head that I don't have to initiate.

What if WS is not a talker ?
( & also does NOT want to read, journal,go on discussion boards, etc., & is not interested in IC because "he doesn't have anything to talk about" )

So I have NO idea what is going on in his mind? To me, it seems like he never thinks about it.
He is doing most of the other stuff (transparency [not enthusiastically], scheduling dates once a week, continues to go to MC once a week )


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Topic Posts: 19

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