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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: R'ing without knowing why?
MUFan
♀ Member
Member # 38284
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH's IC has released him from counseling. I'm not sure because he doesn't know why he cheated. Can we truely R without knowing why? He says he was just weak and gave into temptation. I think there has to be something deeper than this.
HELP!


Me (35)
fWH (35)- emotional affair that ended after a ONS (1-24-13)
4 kids
"Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
-The Lion King

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2013
idiot85
♂ Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There must be a reason- even if it's just that he has shady boundaries and is weak- there must be a reason why he is this way and why he went down that path.

I'm no expert- it's just a human perspective more than anything else- if a girl makes a pass at me I don't feel tempted in any way- I just think I must be looking good. I hope you know what I mean.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
ms521
♀ Member
Member # 12008
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH and I just started MC and on our very first meeting our therapist asked us both for our "whys." WH doesn't have one yet, but I've fully owned my A and was able to explain my selfishness, my loneliness and the fact that the friendly (at first) attention from OM stroked my ego and made me feel important. I was feeling pretty good about taking responsibility for my actions and understanding the things that led me to cross my own boundaries into an A... but the therapist just smiled and told me that while my reason were all good, they fairly "superficial," and that we would be "digging much deeper than that." He said that his job is to get to a root cause for both of us that we might, at this point, be unable (or unwilling) to see.

WH and I would both tell you we've fully R'd from my affair. He has no triggers, I've earned back his trust, and I continue to just be completely transparent (it's just easier that way - I like having nothing to hide!). So is R possible without knowing the reason? Sure. But one thing our therapist said that hit me: neither of us could promise with 100% certainty that we wouldn't cheat again. In my head, I was like, what do you mean? Of course I can promise that!! But in discussing it further, he said our marriage was still just as vulnerable as it was on our wedding day. And I suppose he's right - as any remorseful WS will tell you, I didn't think I would cheat then. But I did. I don't think I'll cheat now... but, how can I be sure?? Is there something that goes deeper than a simple "I won't do it?" Our MC seems to believe so, and his professional opinion is that we're still vulnerable until we both understand a much deeper picture.


Madhatters.
Me: FWW (STA 2002), now a BW.
Him: FWH (OW1: 2006-2007), now just WH (OW2: 2010-2013)

I will never stop trying... because when you find 'the one' you never give up. (Cal Weaver)


Posts: 429 | Registered: Sep 2006
Knowing
♀ Member
Member # 37044
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow ms521, your MC kicks butt and takes no prisoners.

MUfan, could it be that your WS is aware of their whys but is unable to admit them to you? Just a thought. If that isn't the case then I'd say he needs to find another IC.

People get into As for many different reasons: need for validation, need for attention, personality disorders, sexual compulsion... The "why" is buried under that reason, what happened in their past that made their "need" more important than anything else, more important than their commitments to family and marriage, more important than their values, more important than their integrity?


Me: BW, Him: fWH
Together 12 years
My EA (?) 2005-2011
His STA/PA: D-day: 19/09/12
TT: 08/12/12

We are in R.


Posts: 697 | Registered: Oct 2012
MUFan
♀ Member
Member # 38284
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I wrote him an email regarding what I wrote (easier to keep emotion out of it). He clarified the email that he had sent saying he was weak...she was providing him attention and felt like she needed him when I didn't. Its just hard for me to believe that her ego stroking could lead to this. But I thought he was a much more confident person than what he actually is.
Funny how perceptions are skewed.
ms521- sounds like you have a good MC.


Me (35)
fWH (35)- emotional affair that ended after a ONS (1-24-13)
4 kids
"Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
-The Lion King

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2013
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since you registered in Jan then may I assume he's only been going to IC for maybe 3 months max? That sounds like a really short time for deep insights to happen and the fact that he is weak sounds awfully darn shallow. Now that he knows he's weak, what is he supposed to do with that information--just stop being weak?

Maybe your H is afraid to tell you the deeper issue they actually did dig up. Maybe your insured sessions had been used up. Maybe your H wasn't fully participating and had stopped making progress so the therapist fired him. Who knows, but his answer sounds too much like me saying I can't wear a size 6 because I'm fat. Well, yeah--but why am I fat? Because I eat too much. Well, yeah--but why do I eat too much? Because food comforts me. Well, yeah--but why do I turn to food for comfort? Good question and maybe if I could figure that one out then I wouldn't eat as much. Or I could stop at knowing I eat too much (or that I'm weak with poor food boundaries) and just try harder to be strong. My extra 30 pounds tells you that never lasts.

[This message edited by PeaceLove187 at 12:34 PM, April 26th (Friday)]


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 58
Married 34 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 624 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does your H say he accomplished in IC?


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9773 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
MUFan
♀ Member
Member # 38284
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He has told me that they looked at his fear of success due to his tendency to self sabotauge when things are going well (always been professionally before). How to help me heal and how to respond to my triggers. How to forgive himself for the A. His selfishness and lack of self confidence. How not to be a people pleaser.
He is totally remourseful and transparent.


Me (35)
fWH (35)- emotional affair that ended after a ONS (1-24-13)
4 kids
"Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
-The Lion King

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2013
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does "released from counseling" mean?

How long was he in? This just seems awfully sudden... did you hear this from the IC?

I'm sorry to be all question-y, it just sounds like WH is done digging or something.

Honestly, there's no good "why" that's going to clear this up... but betraying your spouse takes a lot of inner brokenness...

Would he be willing to find another IC that might be more, um, hands on?


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16458 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH had a crap therapist who said much the same. He's now with a much better one who's really pushing him.

Giving into temptation is ridiculous -- we're all tempted and we don't all cheat. If nothing else, he likely has poor boundaries. Has he read "Not 'Just Friends'"? That's a good place to start.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Aug 2012
MUFan
♀ Member
Member # 38284
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We both read NJF. I agree that his boundaries were pretty much non-existant. If he had any he would have never put himself in the position to cheat. We have clearly established boundaries now.
He had 6 weeks of IC.
I guess I just don't see that any amount of brokeness would cause me to cheat. I don't know if any answer to why will ever be good enough to explain why he would do this to someone who he claims to love.
As for released- the IC said he didn't need to see him any more unless something new comes up to resolve.
We do still go to MC. I think I'll work with her on this as well.

[This message edited by MUFan at 3:14 PM, April 26th (Friday)]


Me (35)
fWH (35)- emotional affair that ended after a ONS (1-24-13)
4 kids
"Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
-The Lion King

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for released- the IC said he didn't need to see him any more unless something new comes up to resolve.

6 weeks? Um, no, IMO. I can see 6 weeks for getting over the pain of having his world crash down around him, but I doubt he's changed much in that time. Hell, it takes 6 weeks just to get a new habit going - and he has to identify current bad habits, break them, decide what new ones he wants, and get the new habits integrated. 6 weeks? No.

My bet is that he's still got a WS mindset. It sounds like the problem is that he has lousy boundaries, but he doesn't recognize that yet - because he has lousy boundaries.

My advice is to continue to work on your own healing and to work on your M, but don't commit to R until he starts rebuilding trust in a big way. By not committing, you're demonstrating a solid boundary, and he might learn from that - so not committing yet may be best for him as well as for you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:51 PM, April 26th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9773 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
UndecidedinMA
♀ Member
Member # 33732
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, April 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure because he doesn't know why he cheated.

Then I read 6 weeks? It took my FWSO almost a 6 months to figure out his issues.

He may not know but being weak is not an answer. It takes more to A than to walk away.


ME - BSO
Him - FWSO
OW - DBC Xwife
DDAY 09/14/11 ONS w/DBCxWOW with 4 mos EA
Solidly in R

Posts: 982 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: MA
Theradin
♂ Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, April 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds like he isn't putting in the effort to dig into why he did such devastating things to the one he's supposed to love the most.

If I were in your situation, and you truly felt he wasn't trying to 'get better', truly feel remorse, and give 100% to R, then I would start to emotionally distance myself from my WS, and start following the 180 to get myself on track for being healthy and better without that person. That's just me though.


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
Topic Posts: 14

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