And we really do care.
As long as you mean "what does it matter?" for the details only.
The real issue is that your wife may not be actually remorseful yet. Some WS will feel regret for getting caught but continue to "justify" what they've done.
This is why we are concerned about you "rugsweeping" and trying to move on.
Some of the crap she said to you was definitely "foggy." When she said you needed to fill her heart, for example. THAT is evil, fog-speak for I did "what I had to do."
If she doesn't find true remorse, she will hurt you again.
Maybe not today. Maybe not for years. But, unless she is willing to dig deeply into her true reasons - NOT convenient excuses - but the real broken parts of her that allowed her to think ANY of this was okay...
I hope you stay strong. I hope she is remorseful. Confessing the whole ugly truth is one way of starting the path to true remorse and healing.
That is why we keep hammering the point.
I hope these two weeks will give you and her both clarity of direction and that you are both willing to do the hard work that is ahead.
Please do not blindly believe she is 100% committed yet. Trust but verify.
I disagree with most here about whether or not she had vginal sex. I think you are hung up on this as well to make you both feel better that she actually showed some restraint. I think cheating is cheating. She lied to you and lost your trust. She did something very intimate outside your marriage that she doesn't give to you (BJJ with a swallow). I think the reason to know if more happened is so that she can be trusted and he provides full disclosure. Ask yourself if he had sex with him will it chage your decision? Is that a deal breaker? You have to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with her or not. This book will help.
I will say that hings get better every day but it takes time and if not easy.
The thing is, in my experience, if you don't get all of this out and get all of your questions answered, then you're not really gonna move one. What you're choosing is obviously better than what you have now. But not knowing will always seem to nag at you, and there will always be a intimacy barrier between you. If I could go back 3 years I would get all of my questions answered truthfully before deciding to reconcile or not.
The thing is, you can't R without the truth. Your right, it may not matter that she fucked the guy, but it DOES matter if she is now willing to be truthful in EVERYTHING. Without her being truthful about everything you can co-habitat but you will never have the real marriage that you want and deserve. Truth is the foundation of forgiveness and for you two being able to work through this. Do you really want to reconcile with her if she is still lying to you? If so, I would gently suggest that you examine your thought process and understand what is driving your desire to R at all costs.
Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger
The trick --- and it is VERY difficult, when things seem better-- is striking the right balance. You need truth, but perhaps not all the details.
Secrets and lies-- and your wife *is* still lying, either to ptotect you or herself-- create a barrier to intimacy. Not sex, but emotional intimacy. Without this, you're roommates or, if you're "lucky," friends with benefits.
Is this how you want to live, knowing that the lack of emotional intimacy increases the odds of repeat infidelity?
You don't have to decide today, or tomorrow, or anytime soon.
You just owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself.
[This message edited by solus sto at 12:51 AM, May 13th (Monday)]
..i definitely know your pain.
..the fWW and bf did the same for 18 years..
horrible fucking mind movies.
no pain quite like it!!!!!
I think her and Mr. D had a lot more going on than you know of. Heís getting a divorce and will be free? I think they may have talked/planned on being together in the future, another page from the cheaters hand-book. Thatís why she said that. She wanted you to throw her out, then you would be the BAD because of that and she could sneak around easier with Mr. Little Dick.
You made me laugh, you are 41, who would you find? That is young.
I was 52 and married for 26 yrs. and traded-in for a much younger model. But I would rather BE ALONE THAN BE WITH A CHEATER!!
Use your anger right now, let it work for you. No drinking, think of your future, you are stronger than you know. Itís all about you now.
I thought I'd be really sad to see her go and I was but as soon as I walked away, I started to feel better. I got in the car and the further the way from the airport I got, the more relieved I felt.
Time apart will help you understand the anger you're feeling.
Anger is ok, and it is ok to express it here. You won't heal by keeping it bottled up.
Keep firm on the NC and she may lose her interest in OM and come out of the fog.
Good luck calkid, you are doing well, this is awful.
[This message edited by traildad at 7:28 AM, May 12th (Sunday)]
Shes said more than once lately, "man, I'm never doing this again. And I don't ever wanna go through anything like this again."
Remorse looks and sounds completely different.
One thing I find very, very unsettling and worrisome about your situation: that your wife is telling all of her friends the same tale, then having them report to you, "Yep! She told me the exact same thing!"---and your subsequent conclusion that what you're being told must therefore be true.
This is NOT normal behavior. It's not typical, and it's worrisome because it crosses ALL kinds of boundaries. It is disrespectful of you, to report to others for their participation. It turns friends who MIGHT have been trustworthy friends of the marriage into people she will need to excise from her life, should you reconcile, because they were willing to conspire with her to minimize her affair. And ----quite frankly--it's just plain creepy.
These are not actions of a remorseful woman. They are actions of a desperate woman. And desperate does NOT translate into, "great candidate for R." Why? Because she's not desperate for you to know the whole truth. She's not desperate to help you feel better. She's not desperate to heal the damage she's caused and build a stronger relationship.
She's desperate to save her ass.
How about this: just STOP. Just stop discussing the affair, its consequences, your future together.
And instead, detach a bit.
Read the 180.
Then carry it out.
It's hard, but do the best you can. If you break it, start again.
If you can only apply some of the aspects, do that.
But put it into action, as best you can.
Really, you have nothing to lose. At this point, you do not have a marriage. You have a still-lying wife who's still engaged (the Facebook thing? that's breaking NC) in her affair, if only emotionally. Emotional will lead to contact, if "Mr. D" permits. Given that he's a scumbag, this is likely. But if not, there are lots of Mr. Ds in this world.
If she's still got Mr. D in her head and heart---creating a FB page for a kindergartner to access him!---then she's NOT remorseful. She's NOT focused on repairing the damage she's done. She's NOT feeling one iota of empathy for you.
It is early days, and she may well reach remorse and empathy. But she's NOWHERE NEAR either at this point.
Let the little bit of detachment the 180 affords give you some clarity. You are currently crazed. Your view is very distorted. You are seeing what you want to see, not what is there.
It's time to look at things through new eyes.
In the meantime, let your wife feel---just a little---what life without your constant engagement (because, bro, your current frenzied behavior is giving her what is referred to as secondary gain; though it's not the attention she would have liked, ideally, it's attention----and she's getting off on it) might bring. Let HER figure out how to be a healthy woman satisfied with her life. Let her learn that this deep satisfaction with life has nothing to do with the other people in her life, but rather with HERSELF.
Focus it on YOU. Read the 180. Put it into action.
Do not engage in discussions of the future. If she speaks to you, respond pleasantly but briefly. Occupy yourself with other things, even if you don't feel like it. Be less available, less needy, less desperate.
What you might find is that the marriage you have is NOT one you want.
What you might find is that the marriage you have CAN be repaired.
What you might find is that the marriage you have CANNOT be repaired----and that, shockingly, you don't want it to be.
It's really amazing, what a little detachment and observation can give you. Right now, you're ....spinning your wheels. I know. I did it for months longer than I should have.
As long as your wife cherishes her secrets and lies and PROTECTING HERSELF more than she values you and your marriage, you don't have a marriage.
You will not be able to reconcile with a woman who lacks both remorse and empathy. Ever.
Will remorse and empathy surface over time? It's as likely they will as not.
So step back. Observe. STOP TALKING TO THE CREEPY FRIENDS WHO SHE'S USING TO CONFIRM HER TALE, and watch her actions. What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to demonstrate her investment in the marriage? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to rebuild trust? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to be transparent? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to show you that she is willing to do the work to become a woman you would be proud to remain married to?
We both know you don't have answers to those questions yet. You haven't looked for them because you've been shocked, then panicky---just plain frantic--to convince yourself that it's not "as bad" as you think.
Accept that it is. Accept that there's likely much, much more---more, that she will hopefully reveal of her own volition.
If she does not, that gives you very important information about the direction your life will take. You will spend more years with a woman who prefers to allow secrets and lies to form an impenetrable barrier to the emotional intimacy required for a satisfying marriage (and is therefore far more vulnerable to continued or repeat infidelities). Or you will reach, over time (and this may be months or even years), the conclusion that this is NOT the marriage you want, the wife you want.
You are concerned about being a quitter. But it takes TWO to reconcile a marriage. She already quit. Any successful reconciliation starts with a commitment to NC, complete honesty, and transparency. Though it may take time, remorse and empathy will follow--unless your wife is not capable of forming these. (You don't give any indication this is the case.)
I hope you see them soon.
I hope you develop the presence of mind to really honestly assess the situation as it is, rather than how you wish it were.
And I hope you get yourself into IC so that you can gain the strength you need, the confidence in yourself, and the deep satisfaction YOU deserve---all of which comes from within.
[This message edited by solus sto at 8:45 AM, May 12th (Sunday)]