That is all.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
Yes..that's right...not only do I want my WH to be faithful...but I don't want him looking at women and thinking about having sex with them...even if he doesn't make any move towards them.
Yeah, I'm a dreamer too, especially being married to a SA, even if he is in recovery it's a long road for him to completely stop the fantasizing and seeing women as sex objects in his mind.
We all see people we think are attractive. I rarely see real life men, but on TV there are many I would love to see naked and think about how they would be in bed. So maybe I am no better than the men.
I also think it is appalling to women generally speaking (not all) because women generally do not think like that... I can honestly say that I did not start thinking like this until after dday.
I do also think it is somewhat socialized. Why else do you think there are female strip clubs in america with back rooms, lap dances, and total nudity? Sure, I guess there are some male ones, but the strippers are often on stage, are often wearing socks and there is no back room. It is a double standard.
I am not saying that I am interested in having those kind of establishments. I do find it curious though that women can't pay to get rubbed on by a naked man in a back room in virtually every city.
And I am certainly not up on my prostitution laws, but I think women cannot pay for sex with a man in Vegas either. They can with another woman, but not with a man. Why the double standard? I think this stuff has to do with socialization to some degree.
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl
Yeah, I knew that comment might upset some people. As I said,maybe Im super sensitive because of my situation.
Actually your comment didn't upset me at all.....I do actually understand why you feel that way after what we have to go through. I am just a BS with a much different mind set is all. To me cheating has very little to do with sex but then I come from an open marriage background.
The opinions of others on what is cheating and what isn't cheating is not actually important to each of us. The only 2 opinions that matter are those of yourself and your spouse. If you and your spouse feel that just looking at another woman in your mind is cheating then those are your rules and that is ok. For me and my WW, the rules of cheating are just different is all.
If even so much as looking at another woman bothered my wife to the point she asked me not to, I'd make every effort to do so. I can't speak for guys when it comes to thinking since I can't tie a coherent thought process together unless it involves six others and a box of mice, but I don't think appreciating the attractiveness of someone, commenting on it casually and then forgetting about it is a slippery slope any more than anything else is.
I'm not trying to tell you how to feel about it, here. If you find it disrespectful and uncomfortable then for you it is and that's that.
...and judging by the comments on here, I'm a freak of nature for looking at women as fellow humans!!!
Edited to add:
Stillgoing: "appreciating the attractiveness of someone"
I thought it meant in a sexy way- I do appreciate attractiveness- that's human!!
[This message edited by idiot85 at 7:55 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]
Alea iacta est...
And I definitely disagree that it's been proven that women with big breasts are more fertile. Simply not true.
Men like breasts, any size, because it's something uniquely feminine. We don't have em. Some prefer big breasts, some prefer small.
On another note, in defense of those Jr. high men, explain "Magic Mike" or "50 Shades".
that men, when they see an attractive woman think "I wonder what she looks like naked" or " I wonder what shed be like in bed?" And that most guys talk about women like that. That its look but don't touch but its ok to talk about women and what they'd like to do to them.
It's one thing to think someone is attractive in passing. It's another to drool and think, "Yeah, I'd tap that."
Like a new chainsaw. A guy looks over at the display and think, "Hmm, nifty little chainsaw. Oh look, bolts." And he wanders off to the bin of bolts.
Then you have the guy that sees the chainsaw display and it's like a magnet. Bam. He wants to touch it, handle it, smell it, fiddle with the buttons, test the weight. And his wife is tugging on his arm, "George, the flooring is this way."
My wifeis not big breasted nor does she have big hips- every time she's come off her pill- BOOM baby time maybe it's just because I'm Superman though.
LOL - of the three cycles I've been off the pill (and not using back-up methods while breastfeeding) during the course of our marriage, I've been pregnant twice (one miscarriage). So me and my 34Bs have a 66% hit rate of getting pregnant; I'd say fertility is not a problem for me despite my modest chest.
Beyond being possible mental cheating, staring at a woman (or man), undressing her/him with your eyes, imagining what the sex would be like - that's kind of creepy. I mean, yeah, it's normal to notice attractive people and it's normal (I think) to fantasize sometimes but if you're eye-fucking some girl at the grocery store and leering at her tits, I would hazard a guess that she's probably somewhere between offended and freaked out, because chicks tend to notice when they're being leered at.
Male strippers look silly,IMO.
50 Shades did nothing for me...meh.
Now you don't want to know what I've been fantasising about that baby... Let me tell you-the wife has competition. *shudder*
Double standards- just like if the wife bought a rampant rabbit it's a bit of naughty fun but if I bought a 240V Fuckmaster 3000 blow up latex doll with 6 speed revolving foof with non drip collection tray with a built in realistic "that's the wrong effing hole" I'd be a dirty pervert- double standards I say
if I bought a 240V Fuckmaster 3000 blow up latex doll with 6 speed revolving foof with non drip collection tray with a built in realistic "that's the wrong effing hole" I'd be a dirty perver
Fifty Shades sucked. How can something that has the phrase "holy cow" ten times on one page be erotic? I'm reading this sex scene and imagining a holy herd of holy cows standing around watching these weirdos getting it on. Not sexy. I read part of the first book but was unable to finish it as it was terrible.
Haven't seen Magic Mike but all my friends seemed to love it.
If being honest means I'm going to get labeled as a pig or disgusting by some arbitrary gender-based standard of "how things should work", then it's foolish to be honest.
Public sharing/comments are a different issue, but get more at social crassness and boundaries to me than anything else. I don't talk to other men about women I'd like to fuck. That seems just a bit creepy at my age.
Not to mention, talking about fucking a woman is what you do when you don't have the courage to speak up. If you find her that attractive...go talk to her instead of talking *about* her. There's something just a little pathetic about talking about what you *would* do, and never having the balls to just do it.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 9:48 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]
How about people communicate authentically and honestly, and just let the outcome settle itself?
And these are married guys talking about women.... in regards to your last comment.
[This message edited by rachelc at 9:57 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]
4 kiddos in lower 20's
“He has no idea how beautiful the ordinary becomes once it disappears."
Haven't seen Magic Mike but all my friends seemed to love it.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
As someone who had huge breasts in proportion (or out of proportion as the case may be) to the rest of my body at a very young age, I can say the attention THEY received definitely wasn't flattering. I'd put it more on the trauma scale. I heard all the names and was groped on a regular basis, and not just by immature boys my own age but by middle aged married guys too.
It's one thing to think it, another to say it quietly to your buddies but there appeared to be a pack mentality sometimes where one buffoon felt the need to show off and take it a bit further than the others and then go back and try to get kudos from the rest of the group. None of that helped my thoughts on men in general.
I married a guy who didn't act like that. I thought he was one of the 'good ones' and I was lucky. I'd point out a good looking guy or girl, but he'd never comment. Oddly enough he cheated anyway and just kept a lot of stuff hidden. I think keeping stuff hidden can be much worse.
There has to be a healthy middle ground. Actually it's some of the male BS on this forum who have helped my view on men in general.
[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 10:08 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]
As for imagining fucking someone else equating to cheating, I strongly disagree. Unless you want to also argue things like imagining running off to a desert island without any kids to wake you up as equal to child abandonment, there is a distinction between fantasy and reality.
"Knowing is half the battle"
Expecting progress not perfection
The moment you make a man's thought crimes an issue is the moment you cease to have authentic communication with him.
Well said WAL!
Rachelc - I think your original question was do most men think like this. I don't know if most do but enough do that it isn't that uncommon. When I first read your post my initial take was "wow, seams like you have a WH that is really being upfront and honest about his thoughts". I would take that as a positive.
As for if these are bad thoughts that should be "controlled" all I know is if my WW started wanting to control what floats around in my mind I don't think I would be married for that much longer. If this whole affair process has taught me anything it is that I need to maintain myself as an individual as well as someone who is married. As BS we need to have rules to help us feel safe moving with R if that is our goal but we have to be realistic on these rules as well.