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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Is there always a reason for an affair?
hopefullromantic
♀ Member
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, May 17th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just hope that BS's don't get all hung up on the why's like I did. I was obsessing about it, thought it had to be deeper, had to be more. I feel it is more important for me to focus on what my FWH is doing now.

You are right, sister, it is counterproductive for the BS to get obsessive about the whys. I did that too. It wasn't so much that I needed the whys for myself (I have theories) but I thought he needed them to heal. But I finally let go of it. It's not my place to "fix" my H. It's his. Delving deeper for my H might help, but that doesn't mean he can't become a "safe" (a relative term) partner W/O it, and it doesn't mean I should leave him because he didn't do all that I asked. He has his reasons. I love him anyway.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't something deeper for my H. I am convinced there is. Maybe it's not true for your H. Whatever lets you sleep at night.


It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Oct 2007
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, May 17th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But that doesn't mean that there isn't something deeper for my H. I am convinced there is. Maybe it's not true for your H. Whatever lets you sleep at night.
Agreed.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
2yrs+recovering
♀ Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, May 17th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just noticed that a lot of us that have responded here on this post are over 50.

I do not have time for my comment now but this is a great topic.

Thanks,


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
2yrs+recovering
♀ Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, May 17th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nobody "wants" to beat their children. They give into it because they lack a better way of coping with what is going on in their life.

I imagine there are some waywards that feel ok about cheating because their value system sees nothing wrong with it. But I think most cheaters are not okay with it. At least not until they have found ways to justify it because they are doing it, or planning to do it anyway. But before that happens, most cheaters believe that cheating is wrong. It's against their values. There is no justification.

Very good analogy.


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, May 17th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is how I see it, and what has been important to be in my recovery, is that there is a reason.

Now, what that reason is, and how complex and burried, will very. But what I think is critical is that the WS be pushed to at least DIG for a complex answer. It cannot do any harm, because it is an exercise of self reflection and introspection - something many WS's are sorely missing at the time of their affairs.

So whether it is truly rooted in selfisheness (which I think can be delved into as well; WHY are you selfish?), or conflict avoidance, or abuse as a child, etc., doesn't so much matter, as much as the process of digging, and the process of addressing new ways to live in the future. A wayward who just says "I'm not going to do that any more" scares me to death.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
crestfallen
♀ Member
Member # 27993
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Waving hand.....over 50 here and my H just wrote me a note about his A. We are 4 years out and all he can say over and over again was it was like an addiction, he felt entitled, the OW was the vehicle, he hated himself for it and he feels so stupid. And the big one....he was selfish. He has also said in the past it was easy and that she said, just do what I say and you won't get caught( yeah, right!).
All I can say is, he was NEVER punished in any way as a child, nor were his perfect siblings. I do believe him when he said that he just thought I would say "it's ok and give him a little slap on the wrist." Entitlement much? No consequences for our behavior much? Immature much?

Whatever the why might be, someone who understands respect and love for themselves and others would handle issues otherwise.

[This message edited by crestfallen at 8:37 AM, May 19th (Sunday)]


BS-me-57
WH-57
Married 32 years
OW-Mr. Ed ish! Seriously!
DDAY- 2/21/09
TT until 1/10/10
Working on R and doing well!!

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are they ENTITLED to feel selfish? They need to get to that answer.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
KBeguile
♂ Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a point of clarity, I would like to bring up a distinction I made at my most recent IC session:

Selfish is someone who thinks highly enough of themselves that their first thought is for themselves in most situations. In these scenarios, the selfish individual will get merely annoyed at being imposed upon by someone else and will react accordingly (huffing, stamping a foot, etc.). When they aren't treated with the respect they think they deserve to be treated with, their answer is something along the lines of, "Well, what about me?" or "Don't you know who I am?"

Self-consumed are individuals who don't even bother asking "what about me?" and jump directly into manipulating the situation to get what they want, regardless of the outcome for others. The self-consumed person feeds some kind of hedonistic need to be the best/be first in line for everything/have everything he or she wants.

To give an analogy:
A selfish person will get irritated and probably make a sarcastic comment when someone cuts the line in front of them because their own personal sense of time is more important. A self-consumed individual, if not the one cutting, would be outraged at the indignity of being anything less than first, and would try to work the system so that they could cut back ahead in line.

The selfish person will realize that there are others upset by this, but continue to place his or her own needs first. The self-consumed person doesn't even filter in the opinions of the others he or she is affecting. They simply don't matter.

Self-consumed is the nth degree of selfish.

I was self-consumed. I am working on fixing those problems now.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes there is always a reason. Weakness of character.

I think/hope that can change somewhat but it is not easy or fast to change. There are also all sorts of ways to minimize temptations etc but that seems to me to be highly fallible overall.


Posts: 236 | Registered: Apr 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Self consumed as you are describing here Kbeguile, is someone who is displaying a high degree of NPD characteristics. Mind you I said characteristics and not NPD in and of itself. An NPD person takes those characteristics and twists them in god awful ways. It amazes me how often NPD is used here. And how often people are just the average selfish assholes.

There is always a reason why someone feels that they can be entitled to be selfish. Why they can impose their rights over their spouses. If they haven't dug enough to figure that out, that would scare me.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
sri624
♀ Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you know...i have been talking in therapy about this....i am always searching for the "why." everyday really. his answers are pretty much the same as most of the people who responded to this post. thrown in an alcohol/drug addiction in our case.

but at the end of the day....there is no "reason" that will ever make me feel better....no "why" makes me understand it. i think when i first hear the why or the reason...i feel better, but then later...when i am alone...i realize that it made no difference...i still hurt.

what i have come to realize is that sure...maybe it is some deep, complex reason why he cheated the way he did....it has to be for someone to do that. the bottom line is that he did it. and he liked it..and thought he could get away with it...and probably would have continued until he got busted. i think it is just that plain and simple. yes, it is selfish...and a bunch of other things i am sure that have nothing to do with me...it is just the kind of man he is.

whatever it is though...it doesnt make me feel any different about what he did to me.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
R:Last chance

Posts: 975 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
KBeguile
♂ Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tired girl said:

Self consumed as you are describing here Kbeguile, is someone who is displaying a high degree of NPD characteristics. Mind you I said characteristics and not NPD in and of itself. An NPD person takes those characteristics and twists them in god awful ways. It amazes me how often NPD is used here. And how often people are just the average selfish assholes.

Yes, and as I and my IC have determined together, I exhibited a number of traits of both NPD and SA, but I am neither completely. However, the knowledge of what leads me to think and behave along either set of lines is crucial to me being able to control myself and prevent myself from being what I was before.

Make sense?


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
libertyrocks
♀ Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post. (clapping) Oddles and oddles of wisdom, first hand knowledge and most importantly sincerity here.

My 2cents. I know why FWH did it. I was pregnant, then breastfeeding and co-sleeping with both our sons for 3 years while working/commuting 12 hour days. Plus, I wasn't available to go drink and party with, so he found others that were available. He has daddy issues, poor coping skills, and was scared to become a father/husband. He didn't know how to. That's what he says.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 4:06 PM, May 20th (Monday)]


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am also very happy that this thread has not stagnated. I refer to it often to read the many different and helpful points of view.

It is has been something that has bothered me for quite awhile. I had thought that my H's reasons were not enough, that there had to be some deeper reason for the A that neither he or I were getting.

Now I see that his reasons are valid, but that he needs to question why these reasons were even factors at the time. (availability, opportunity, selfishness)

These things made the affair easy, they didn't lead him to make his choices.

Perhaps the question to ask is "Why didn't you want to protect our marriage enough to withstand the temptation?"


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
hobbeskat
♀ Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel the same, that what he says is not enough. He said he was depressed out of his mind, thought I didn't love him so was being self destructive. He said today he would never have done it had he not been so low and that I deserved so much better from him. I did, and he was very low, but it's not enough. He can't just, "get low" and bugger off and have an affair. I need more than that to feel safe.

In the case of the OW, they were already close, it was always going to happen, their boundaries are both shit, and each time they were drinking and on drugs so their inhibitions were lowered. But that doesn't explain the texts they sent or that he masturated over the thought of her.

Ugh, just triggered myself. Sorry. x


Posts: 308 | Registered: Mar 2013
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Liberty, your example is the perfect illustration for a "reason" that is surface. The next step is WHY, instead of reaching out, did he withdraw into unhealthy coping mechanisms? Is he conflict avoidant? And if so, how will he overcome that. Perhaps he is passive aggressive, and if so, what has he learned to overcome those behaviors.

Many of the surface reasons have underlying psychological drivers that can be addressed to hopefully not make us go through this again. Of course there are no guarantees, which is another thing we have to accept. But, there are more questions to ask.

There will never be a "reason" that makes sense. I don't think that is the goal. The goal is to find the driver, if you can, and find ways to address that root cause.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
Topic Posts: 56
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