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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just focus on sal1995. Mine really wants R too. More than once she has said she wants me to fall in love w/her again.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444, I'm not one for taking shots at my wife but.. a couple of months back, not sure what we were talking about, but she says something like "Is it wrong that this fell on the desk and I ate it instead of throwing it out?" I just auto-fired back without really thinking "Not like you haven't had worse in your mouth." She says "Oh snap!" and busted out laughing.

I think if you can go there without malice, that darker shade of humor is a good thing. So long as that's what it is, because the drive to humiliate and shame is a hubris that will only reinforce the anger and keep it going.

Just need to be aware of the source of that humor. It's a short walk from amused cynicism to poison sometimes.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG so where is that tipping point?

Using her as a cum rag, when the chute opened or lets all have a joke at her expense to name a few.

I believe and wholeheartedly support what you said SG in your post, but if you don't think the poison is setting in then I am absolutely in the wrong place.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does that mean in a practical sense when you're living in the same house?

To me disconnecting means no longer trying to win over your wife. In other words, you focus on your needs and those of your kids (if you have any) and thats it. The WW has to show you she is worth keeping around at that point. That doesn't mean be a total ass to her. But she does need to know she's on the short list of things that can go out with the trash if needed. If she chooses to step up and work on her shit at the same time helping you heal, then she stays. If you get the 'woe is me' racket from her then it only makes your case stronger for D.

What frustrates me is the expectation from my WW that I would automatically forgive her and then I could win her back. Completely backwards in my book. When I really put my foot down about what she did she only piled on more shame and blame.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 5:20 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Using her as a cum rag, when the chute opened or lets all have a joke at her expense to name a few.

HL, I think the difference is that B444 is saying those horrible things to us, not to his WW. If saying them to us is helping him not say them to her, isn't that a good thing?

Personally, I think B444 is very well-behaved for a former drill sergeant.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
BHSD
♂ New Member
Member # 39392
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Might as well make my first post in this thread, I have been lurking and reading since my d-day.

The analagy to poison is a good one. In the days following d-day I said several things to my wife that I now cringe at.

Did it make me feel good at the time? Yep. But it also kept me angry and my life revolved around my anger. I could think of nothing else. Once I let that go, things started to improve.

Did she deserve it? At the time I thought she should get worse than what I was doing. If she was a guy I would have punched her in the face. But that behavior just made her "my husband doen't love me, look at poor me" story even more real to her.

Did I deserve to be cheated on? Of course not but that is something I could not control.
My words are something that I can control.

In the end, it was the 180 that made the biggest impact, my moving on-even if it was without her, that made the biggest impact on my wife. She realized that I was going to move on and if she wanted to stay with me she better start working on herself.

[This message edited by BHSD at 5:25 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: December 2, 2012

Posts: 1 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Midwest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What frustrates me is the expectation from my WW that I would automatically forgive her and then I could win her back.

This is the craziest phenomenon! Mine is the same way. I said your gunna have to work to make me love you again because our initial vows are now shot to shit. She had the nerve to say "well what about us working on the problems in our marriage" Seriously what marriage, you threw that out the door. I'm not winning anything back, she's the one that's needs redemption.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 5:45 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not winning anything back, she's the one that's needs redemption.

Exactly! Thats the mindset I have at this point.

To me, once the A happened the M was dead. From that point I re-evaluated who I was married to. If I was single would I be attracted to and want to marry her? Nope! Aaaand she wasn't doing anything to convince me she wanted to work on herself to make it different. I own my issues, she owns hers, and she owns the A... She wouldn't own either of hers. Case closed.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me, once the A happened the M was dead. From that point I re-evaluated who I was married to. If I was single would I be attracted to and want to marry her? Nope!

That's the rub, isn't it? You have to find a way to R with someone who, knowing what you know now, wouldn't marry in a million years. Unless you are a glutton for punishment.

If someone told me right before my wedding that my wife would start screwing another man a few weeks before our 16th wedding anniversary, and not stop until I caught her more than 10 months later (not because she wanted to stop), I'd have headed for the hills. I damn sure wouldn't have helped pay off her student loans, made 4 babies with her, and let her be a SAHM for most of our marriage. Thanks for nothing.

I don't know, maybe I'm overreacting, but not fucking another guy doesn't seem like a whole lot to ask for. I mean, I've managed to not even kiss another woman during our marriage, so it doesn't seem that difficult to me. But maybe it's very difficult for some, which is the reason for that whole marriage vow thing that is now shot to hell.

But here we are, 17 years, 4 kids and a mortgage later, trying to make sense of this mess. What a shit sandwich we've been served.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 5:52 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am glad I am not in the same boat you guys are in. My wife has explained that she did not plan this. Also, I am relieved to know "it" was not what I think. Furthermore, she never meant to hurt me.

I feel pretty good about that.

[This message edited by Later at 6:00 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does that mean in a practical sense when you're living in the same house? Play golf, be aloof, spend more quality time reading on the throne?

Hi Sal,

For me it meant that I often did what I wanted to do, not what I though would be a good activity for both of us. FWW was invited along, but if she did not want to come along I still went. I reached out to establish drinking buddies to meet with and shoot the shit and solve world problems. I was very slow to step in and help if FWW had a problem (flat tire, computer issue, broken watzit). Instead I waited to be asked, and fit it into my schedule (early morning as I am out the door to work I DID NOT have time to address most issues). I separated funding and kept most of my money separate, putting in just enough to the joint budget to be my fair share. I gave myself permission to not feel guilty for not enabling her (yes, I had some of my own crap to work on).

Eventually, after she broke an agreed to boundary, it meant I moved out and did not move back in until she met conditions including sustained and effective IC for her personality trait issues.

For a couple of years we were more like roommates or friends than H&W. Even today, when she slips into her old stress response behavior habits it is easy to just switch the attention off of her and live as though a pleasant roommate.

I can fill my life with friends, work, hobbies, and chores. I have a new and challenging career. I am involved in some exciting volunteer work. I have friends. FWW and I have sex so infrequently that missing that is not really a deterrent to detaching.

FWW also understands she has until the last son is through college, and then I have lost my reason to stay in an unhappy, unsatisfying M and avoid the bankruptcy that would come with D since she is unemployed and house is underwater.

I have most always liked her, we do have fun together. Because of our situation, she is fortunate to have a few years to convince me staying M to her is better than not.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:07 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife has explained that she did not plan this.

Later, I heard something similar. My wife didn't mean for this to happen (sure, massive betrayals are something one just stumbles into from time to time). I'll concede that might apply to screw No. 1, but the next 100 screws probably required some planning and a whole lot of intent.

But she may have a point. The lack of protection and birth control seems to indicate less planning than one would imagine, considering the stakes. Or maybe all the plans revolved around the hedonistic aspect of the relationship, only.

I'm not sure what bothers me the most - the betrayal, or the extreme level of stupidity involved.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RyeBread, atsenaotie, I appreciate your takes on detachment. I'm already doing some of those things, and maybe didn't realize it until now.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 6:18 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

explained that she did not plan this, she never meant to hurt me

Hate to burst your bubble there but "plan" and "meant to" got nothing to do with it. Normal well adjusted people don't just wake up one morning and say "what a beautiful day, think I might go fuck someone other than my H today." Its never planned, doesn't change a damn thing. She still stepped out and gave someone else what she promised only to you when you took your vows.
No one ever means to hurt their spouse...nevermind that's an asinine statement, I'm sure lots of AP's might mean to hurt their spouses. But no one that truly loves there spouse at the time means to hurt them. It's all about those selfish needs and the BS is just an afterthought. The act of an A is just about the most hurtful thing you can do to a person.
Like I said "plan to" and "meant to" got nothing to do with it. The outcome is still the same.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know, I was just mocking the statements because they are so lame. So lame I don't think I even responded.

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lol, good, thought I might have to slap you.
Sorry kind of in a ranty mood today


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG so where is that tipping point?

Using her as a cum rag, when the chute opened or lets all have a joke at her expense to name a few.

I believe and wholeheartedly support what you said SG in your post, but if you don't think the poison is setting in then I am absolutely in the wrong place.

Maybe you are, not my place to say, that's your decision and I am not taking that responsibility because of a thought process I have. There's poison that festers and poison you lance. You know your limits, you don't know mine, we don't know theirs. Guys come here fresh out of dday, a few months after, and need a place to vent.

Yes, someone used the phrase cum rag. It's fucked up, it's a damn disrespectful thing to say, but blowing it out in a safe place among people who understand where that rage is coming from and can get different perspectives on the phrase cum rag as apropos to circumstance is a lot better than walking around seething with the phrase cum rag playing over and over inside a skull, I feel.

I don't know where his tipping point is, I don't know where yours is. I know where mine is.

I'm 3 years out. I can look at that and wince. I'm not 3 months out where I look at it and may think it in some iteration. I've had a lot of time and perspective to draw from, a lot of these guys don't. I'm not going to tell them to respect a woman who just dropped this bomb on their heads because it should be observed from some objective universal position. They're not calling my wife a cum rag, and I'd have some sharp fucking words if they were. I know that rage though, and I know that for some people that shit needs venting into space or the whole system will overheat and melt down.

I think you should use your voice to explain why that phrase is disrespectful and what will happen if continually employed, and do so from your own hard won experience so others can benefit from it, but in such a way that people can explore their own reason and playground of cognizance, not to look on it and say "You are wrong."


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Hard
You taking pot shots At me and the way I deal with my Betrayal?
You don't think it's poison when your wife sits on other men's cocks?
Lies to you. Leaves you with the kids while she out sucking dick?
What makes your way holier than anyone else's. your wife also fucked someone else.
I get it. Your in the land of reconciliation with rainbows and chocolate covered cherries. I get it, some of our anger and the way WE are dealing with it is different than your approach. Maybe some of our post upset whatever balance your building to get past it. You've already said this thread should be strictly reconciliation and damned be those that need some companionship and guidance.
Yeah pal. I'm at 6 months. I'm exactly where the script says I should be. A lot of people are years down the road and still dealing with this shit.
This decision I'm making can affect the rest of our lives. We're only getting older. Make the wrong move and 2 years later perhaps were looking at another DDay. Which by the way seems inappropriate. More like a 9/11.
I'm angry ok. You get that. I can't rage around my house. I have children. I have a good job. I have to be a role model and balance every facet of my day to day life.
My WW did something that flies in the very face of everything I believe in. Everything I work for.
She's been to jail, she's been exposed to CPS, she cheated and lied to my face like it was nothing. I trusted her whole heartedly.
She still here. I still treat her well. She could still be locked up or in a shelter
I want to vent and call her a dirty towel or make a comment on a parachute so be it. Bottom line I celebrated our anniversary like a man. I took her out for sushi afterwards, so what. I bring it Round here where other people know where I'm coming from and allow me to sound off. It's not the worse thing I've read here although it isn't the best but its a safe haven.
I do use humor. If you see it as dark the. That's your opinion but I'm still dealing with TT. Whatever I say is not nearly as bad as discovering what happened. The sanctity that I lost. I don't need you preaching to me about my attitude. I am totally justified in my sarcasm. I have a WW who showed me she has no boundaries. That she is willing to lay down with other men without remorse. I'm handling this in my own way. I'm not being a pussy. I put my foot down and she knows exactly where I stand and I'm taking care of myself. My WW is on probation and that is exactly what she needs to know. I am allowing her to prove herself. I am spending quality time and giving her a chance without letting her see me stoop to a lower level. I am being mature and honest.
Thank god for SI. I can reveal those "remarks" here instead of exposing her to it because I am trying and everyone but you seems to understand that.
Carry on


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not Holier, but have been there and done that just like you and so my posts are to say "Hey, this shit will hurt you long term" that's what I thought the vets do, but most just want to sit around the campfire and one up each other with crude shit. Go for it, if you think Recon is rainbows and chocolate it shows how little you know.

Carry on


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure what your problem is hl but don't try to make it mine. What you're doing is being confrontational and judgmental. If you want to say I'm sitting around farting, fine, now lets move on.

eta:

changed "go cool the fuck off" because it is also, obviously, confrontational and not where this shit needs to keep going.

Also, for humor value:

Carry on.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:21 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7098 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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