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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's definitely a positive -- even a breakthrough moment for owning the extent of the damage she has inflicted. A rock bottom moment in AA parlance.

Doesn't mean there won't be challenges to come or that you let her off the hook, but it's a great sign that she's ready to make a change and own her behaviors without blame shifting.

I find it just as promising that your first instinct towards her was compassion, and questioning the validity of it is a secondary/delayed reaction -- a self-defense mechanism.

Says a great deal about your quality and humanity, Sal.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SAL
Wow. Sounds like WW is transitioning out of the fog and the repercussions of what she did is having an impact. I think as she loses whatever feelings she had for OM she is now emphatic towards you and the mess she made. I don't know but from what I gathered here WW's are very protective at first but the emotional dams that they build up have to burst sometime and their guard could come down. I dont think you should fix it ,just allow them to let it out. I would advise not to interfere but let her know it's okay to break down and be there as a safe haven. Maybe this is a crucial first step that will let her know its ok to give more info and give you the answers you deserve to know.
Recently I read a fantastic piece from Dr Phil's new book "life code"
Yeah yeah.... Dr Phil , I know. I hated that guy but infidelity makes you look at shit differently. He has a letter in there addressed to WS that clearly outlines how you feel and what you expect from WS. I would post it but I can't find it on the web. It basically says you disrespected me and if it happens again there are no 2nd chances. The. Goes on to say I am telling you this so there are no misconceptions about how I feel and we totally understand each other. Then says I'm invoking my right as a spouse to have access to your passwords because of what you've done and if you have a problem with that let me know now.
Anyway It is non confrontational and clearly worded. I read that to my WW. She was relieved and vey happy.
I also gave her your line Sal which is pure gold.
Next time you decide we're going to have an open marriage let me in on it.
She laughed. I laughed. I said seriously, don't keep me In The dark, I know I can do better than you did.
Shes my DT after all( dirty towel to the new guys, j/k).
Btw seems like my attorney is tits.
He destroyed the DA. She's pleading to a regular DWI. All other charges will be tossed. No endangerment charges which will probably cause family court to go away also. Her probation will be 6 months. No jail, nothing. Her license will be intact.
My attorney says it puts me in a great position also if I went D because I wouldn't have a problem with custody issues.
So that's all about to go away. I stood by her. Got the situation resolved and put myself in a great position if we go nuclear.
Since the news she's been on cloud 9. Texts of love, I'm special, xo's etc
In life when your handed a crisis you have remain cool, level headed, keep your integrity, and utilize good strategy. I've been playing chess for months. Trying to keep the family together but shielding my kids. Trying to keep her out of jail but take responsibility for her actions and keep myself above the fray. My attorney said I'm golden. Her attorney said he could probably gotten her completely off for another 30 grand but he didn't have a crystal ball to predict the jury and since the endangerment charges were going completely away it's a win. After all she's a stay at home mom.
So that's it for now.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 3:55 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

That sounds positive to me. I haven't experienced it - closest I got is one morning I was stretching and my wife came running in the room sobbing. Like you said - no way it could of been an act. Before she opened her mouth, I had already forgiven her for whatever she was about to say. I could see remorse, and nothing I could tell that there was nothing I could say at that moment, other than to hold her. She had totaled my car - didn't engage the emergency brake fully, and it rolled down our hill into the woods. She wasn't that upset when she totaled me.

Hopefully it's a turning point for her, as WAL mentioned, rock bottom. I'm sure it looks different for everyone.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is she in IC? If not, I would recommend finding a good one.

She is on IC #2, Wert. She's had about 4-5 sessions in total so far, and I understand she had a great one this morning. So there's that - remorse and a willingness to work on her issues.

I find it just as promising that your first instinct towards her was compassion,

WAL, compassion from my end has been in short supply in recent months, for obvious reasons. But it was definitely there last night. Afterwards there was almost a slight guilty feeling about it. That's one of the strangest things about reconciling after infidelity - you find yourself comforting, and being comforted by, the person who inflicted your worst pain. I still love her, what can I say. Thanks for the kind words.

B444, sounds like things are really looking up for you, that's great to hear. If most of us can take a step back and look at the big picture, we realize that we didn't marry a monster or someone who's been a rotten person for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years and managed to fool us into thinking otherwise the whole time. Trying to see my wife outside of the context of a disastrous 11 month period hasn't been easy, but it's getting easier. She's just a screwed up chick with serious FOO issues who managed to live an honorable life right up until March-April of last year, before going off the rails and acting like everyone else in her FOO. Unlike any of them, she is getting counseling and seems to be owning her behavior.

Tred, I'm not in your shoes obviously, but recall seeing something posted by your WW not too long ago that seemed to indicate that she got the devastation she brought on you. The pain she expressed seem real. I hope that's the case.

Thanks to all.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
FeelingSoMuch
♂ Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal, thank you for sharing that post.

My WW says she's remorseful and I keep having the feeling that she's not. What you described is exactly what I'm looking for from my WW.

My d-day is shortly after yours. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that sooner, rather than later, I'll have a similar experience.

R is very hard if you don't think the other person is still defensive. I have been having more thoughts about leaving over the last week -- never had them before.

Your post is encouraging.

Thanks again.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
The hard part: They still work together.

Posts: 465 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is all pretty pro R stuff right here. Good food for thought. My take on the journals would be to read them in detail and let it burn into my memory. I know, 3 years on and not knowing the whole story, I'd ransom a lot to know WHO the mother of my children is. This far out, I remember only the highlights of what I did learn on DDay, and that too if I try and recall them. What was important was what path the inquiry and conversations took once I had that information. Again, this might be my jaded perspective of someone who never quite really got much of the truth, so toss it if its of no use to you. iMHO you can't really reach intimacy unless you know what's happened in YOUR M. Journals might just be the key if your W has a hard time 'remembering' or bringing up points of discussion.

Another point from my 'cautionary tales' catalogues would be that Ws As from 7 years prior to DDay were never brought to light, which eventually led to her second run of As about 10 months before DDay (which is how I ended up uncovering this shit). My point being, in hindsight, had I a glimpse of what she was capable of 9 years ago, had we started uncovering her brokenness the first time round, there is a distinct possibility that there would not have been a second time.

So, to recap, I'd go through journals just to know what/who I am dealing with. If not for her sake (to fix her shit, "mother of my children"), then for mine, to know what I have to heal and protect myself (and/or my kids) from.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal:
That's good news man! Not a vet, but to me seems like genuine feelings are always an improvement over those fake (preserving myself) ones.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd go through journals just to know what/who I am dealing with. If not for her sake, then for mine, to know what I have to heal and protect myself (and/or my kids) from.

This is my take to. How can I make an educated decision when I haven't been educated on the full extent of the betrayal.

Capt. Kirk: Spock, give me an update on the dark area ahead.
Mr. Spock: No analysis due to insufficient information.
Capt. Kirk: No speculation, no information, nothing? I've asked you three times for information on that thing and you've been unable to supply it. Insufficient data is not sufficient, Mr. Spock! You're the science officer. You're supposed to have sufficient data all the time.

That's me right now, an infidelity science officer.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Plus, DefiledRage becomes Spock and pronounces; Observe her actions over time, NOT JUST HER WORDS.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Curious Captain
My WW's POSOM appeared to have been wearing a red shirt.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Couple of thoughts-
1- no way I could keep my hands off that journal for a second. At one point I thought my fWW was using invisible ink to write a journal. I was all over town getting a black light.
Turns out I was wrong. (A side note- how many crazy ass things have we done we never thought we would. I am so pissed that her infidelity has turned me into someone I don't like that much!)

2- If my fWW was sobbing like that I think I would cry too. Tears of joy. Just to know she finally gets it. Don't get me wrong, I would be compassionate, I mean if your reaction to seeing that isn't compassion and acceptance, then what are you waiting for? Why are you still in the marriage? Anyway, glad to hear about that. For me 15 months and still waiting.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 154 | Registered: Apr 2013
Itsgoingtobeok
♂ Member
Member # 37664
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Defile - great star trek reference


BS-(52)
WS-49
married 28 yrs
Kid's -2
A- several
DD- 12-10-12
Starting recovery

"I don't understand the world today I don't understand what she needs I gave her everything she threw it all away" tom petty


Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Los Angeles
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would want to know everything. Even today years after D day. I didn't have that option though.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1160 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to know everything, and I think I got it. Can't see how it could get much worse. My feeling is that I'm supposed to be there when my wife has sex because well, I'm her husband and that was part of the bargain when we said our vows. We're not entitled to sexual secrecy from each other. I also think that fessing up causes the waywards to own up to what they did and to grasp the magnitude of the betrayal.

Besides, I already know what she does in bed. I just wanted her to be truthful with me so we could move forward.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 11:21 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Besides, I already know what she does in bed. I just wanted her to be truthful with me so we could move forward.

I think that sums up why we'd rather hear it from her than end up finding shit on our own.

Somebody once on another forum asked me why I wanted to know, would it matter if she did the whole football team, could I still forgive her and R? I think that's framing the question wrong. More important is knowing she is willing to own up, and, no, there is no honest answer (yes or no) to such a question since you don't really know what you're going to do till you find out. How many of us thought that an A itself (in whatever form) was always going to be a deal breaker, yet here we are. I think putting the BS on the line is unfair when asking "how much do you want to know", the frame of reference should always be "how much remorse is the WS really feeling to let go of the outcome"??

Eta:typos

[This message edited by noescape at 11:50 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 1:42 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444: red shirted by a dikironium cloud creature.

Just how satisfing would it be to issue the OM a red uniform then send him on a landing party knowing there's a 73% chance he ain't making it back. ahhh sweet justice.

FYI googled the percentage of red shirt deaths, I'm not that geeky!


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444: red shirted by a dikironium cloud creature.
Just how satisfing would it be to issue the OM a red uniform then send him on a landing party knowing there's a 73% chance he ain't making it back. ahhh sweet justice.

FYI googled the percentage of red shirt deaths, I'm not that geeky!


I can assure you with 100%. he almost didn't make it out of my world.
Responsibility and better judgement got in my way. He beamed out before I changed my mind.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Btw
Today is an awesome day,not, my WW is taking a plea then we get to meet her probation officer.
Funny how she spiraled so far out of control and here I am still picking her up. I said to her the other day OM was a coward. If he loved her he would never have given up. He would have fought to the end. Turned out he had a girlfriend she didn't know about. How bad is that? You cheat on your family, throw everything away for an AP then discover he never meant a word he said. She thought she was in control and totally got played. What a shitty deal. When do you realize your a loser?
Anyway here I am. I fought for her. I know she's grateful and if she isn't oh we'll. in the gym right now getting my swole on for court. Standing beside her like a dope.
This song came on. Great tune
http://youtu.be/I0-lENIRHaM

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Know exactly what you mean betrayed444. My STBXWW's OM was sleeping with someone else on the side too. My WW felt so betrayed and used by him she had a meltdown of epic proportions. She wanted my sympathy for her plight...all I could do was snicker and say "what did you expect?"


in the gym right now getting my swole on

That's been my savior this past year. Throwing weights around feels soooo goooood!! And it helps to up the 180 to another level if you know what I mean


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cheat on your family, throw everything away for an AP then discover he never meant a word he said.

Yeah, that's gotta suck. How many times has it played out that way though? My WW thought her AP was different. He wouldn't lie to her, she trusted him completely. As if the only one Ensign Rivera would lie to is his wife? I'll never forget the look on my wife's face when she found out that she was just one of his multiple affair partners, and that she really never meant anything to him. I'll stop there as I feel a rant coming on...I haven't used the term "throat yogurt" in context on this forum yet.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
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