Some real good points there.
Which is where the fucking injustice of all this infidelity bullshit hits the hardest. The WS doesn't "get needs met" and instead of: 1) working on themselves to be an adult about it and take responsibility for their own happiness and 2) working with the BS to try and resolve the thornier issues (not all issues can be resolved though and that's just how life is-lump it), so they decide to blow up everybody around them for shits and giggles, and the BS is supposed to work with them now to 'fix' the M somehow?
Why can't they put 1/10 of the emotional energy into the M and their H's that they can into maintaining and hiding an A?
A's have a big advantage - no mortgage, or dirty diapers, or utility bills, or alarm clocks going off at 6:00 a.m. - marriages just aren't that sexy. And that whole commitment thingy is such a drag.
WAL, wert, SG et al say all this stuff so much better than me
I would never say that my M is BTE, at least not at this point, but honestly, due to what I place high values on in a M(trust, fidelity,respect)its doubtful that BTE is even a possibility.
Fixing M issues alone only gives a surface veneer of things being OK while the bubbling mass of lava seethes underneath
"Fixing M issues" became a delaying and avoidance tactic for my X. I got to the point where I would not discuss the M. At all. Since she could never cobble up the introspection necessary to address the broken thing within her, well, I'm sure it was frustrating for her, but I could not allow myself to manipulated anymore.
In a very real sense to me, there was no M to discuss anyway. It was dead. She killed it.
(We could have had a new M, but she couldn't be Remorseful, Transparent, Honest, and NC - none of them)
Besides, 'M-talk' for the unremorseful is another trip down the rabbithole of this false narrative:
I was not that unhappy in the M.
To FWW’s thinking that was proof that she was being a good W.
OTOH, she was miserable, and that was proof that I was being a bad H and did not love her.
A custom-made mindworm for the white-knight guys, yes?
I will never read that book again.
Thanks for the new terms:
POSER & swole.
I started back up too, so it's too early to feel it in the gym, but I do feel somewhat swole in the morning.
There is also a file which I found through SI, though the link is gone now (i've created a new uplink); its a study cited in the new therapist magazine with an article by Tatkin going into some detail about how an avoidant acts in their primary relationship. Found it very relevant to my W.
(Note: I'm posting it up on dropbox, if its in violation of SI rules, could I ask a mod to please remove the link and apologies in advance)
I half agree with the conclusion, though. Unless I didn't completely understand it, it seemed to me that the author's view was either:
A) That the primary dyadic relationship should be remodeled to 'work' with both actors' attachment styles. (Which, if true, is the part I disagree with)
B)That both partners should work towards achieving secure-autonomous attachment styles...which I'd imagine we phrase round these parts as "fixing your shit." (individually)
I don't get the impression that the author was saying that treating the symptoms of the affair are not important, but that until the attachment styles issues are worked through to a healthy model, you're basically just treading water. Overall, I lked it.
[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:01 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
Since she could never cobble up the introspection necessary to address the broken thing within her, well, I'm sure it was frustrating for her, but I could not allow myself to manipulated anymore.
thanks jj, getting there...
The reason is obviously because most affair recovery programs are focused on fixing the M without too much attention paid to inherent brokenness (of both WS and the BS), which is also why here on SI, you'll find the advise that MC is pretty pointless until the WS recognises and starts working to fix herself/himself. Fixing M issues alone only gives a surface veneer of things being OK while the bubbling mass of lava seethes underneath as atse pointed out.
That is great stuff and its the reason to keep pressing a WW to fix their shit.
I feel myself being in this in between space. I am becoming more comfortable living there. This stuff is not all or nothing. My W is working, but a life time of forging poor coping skills and messed up internal dialog is hard very hard to over come. I can see her looking for answers though. The rub for her and I think for me, is there is this life thing going on at the same time. Meaning, 3 kids, school, work, and toilets to clean. These aren't excuses but instead easy ways for hedgers and people who are prone to use avoidance as a soother to avoid. The rub for me is talking about these things consistently and ensuring through that dialog the work is being done.
There is this messy space between listening and demanding progress where many of us get lost. There is a resentment that I even need to be working on this crap that burns deep in me. I need to let that go - not for her, but for me.
My W doesn't blame the M for her A. It's not just lip service, she takes it on herself. I can see it. Trying to clean up that mess must really suck.
In recent pages I have been referred to as a 'vet' and used in the same sentence and WAL, SG, etc. I am 1.5 years out from d-day. I ain't no vet. I struggle daily with resentment, fear and pain. My internal dialog has improved massively. Introspection has defined me for the last year or so. I am not being self deprecating, but instead honest, in saying that their are many moments when I want to run, hide and give up. The struggle is never over.
For me the truth of being a BH is realizing that my W, while a part of the equation, is not the answer. I am. I am the only puzzle that I can figure. The only problem I can solve. As long as she keeps working and talks to me about, my take it what matters.
take it easy fellas...
FWW, OM, and I are all marathon runners (FWW and OM were running buddies -- that is how they met, etc. etc.). Anyhow, I am much faster than OM.
We heard through mutual friends in the running club that OM just ran a ridiculously embarrassingly slow marathon this past weekend (in part because he's become a slobby fat bastard).
So, on the one hand, take that you fat SOB. MY all time slowest marathon (in which I had to walk three separate times) is still FASTER than your fat ass ever has or ever will run a marathon (and is easily 1 1/2 hours faster than your recent pathetic performance).
On the other hand, it doesn't change the fact that you fucked my wife.
Don't really need responses, just wanted to vent...
I think that the vast majority of R'ing BHs will find themselves in more of companionship M than a dough eyed head over heals in love M.
true, IMO, and I dunno why.
I was head over heels for this woman for years, now I feel very little for her-we get along, sleep in the same bed, but it's just not there anymore. She is the mother of both my fantastic kids, and I just dont feel love for her like I did.
64- I know exactly what you mean. My WW has been travelling this week, which usually triggers the hell out of me. Not this week. I have not called her once to check up. Today she said what a great week it has been for us.
She is mistaking my apathy for healing.
[This message edited by slater13 at 10:18 AM, June 6th (Thursday)]
My OM was worse than yours....aside from being a fat slob...he wasnt into anything other than being a couch turd. My fww is a runner...has run a few 26.2s...but not obsessed like myself...she used that obsession as an excuse at first...
But 26.2? That's incredible to me.
Same here. I ran almost a quarter-marathon last Saturday (6.3 miles, personal best) and have been patting myself on the back all week. I can't imagine 26.2 miles. Greg, LG, my hat's off to you as well.
[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 11:46 AM, June 6th (Thursday)]
My biggest issue is trying to work out a schedule that works well with the different types of exercise.
My legs are always slow to recover from weightlifting - takes at least 2 days of rest before I am comfortable running after I lift.
As far as confronting, I am all in favor of it. I know most are not -- but I need it for myself. I even told her she was free to come along and see for herself what a cowardly little bitch her really is.
[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:08 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]
I am 6'1 and 245.....I look like a circus bear on a toy bike during Tris....
but Ill say this...any 26.2 or 50K I run....It looks like 400 scrawy people running from the angry giant in the back of the pack.....lol