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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Betrayed,

I remember discussions and emails like that too. Explaining how I was wrong in my interpretations then refusing to tell me the facts.

I also got a lot of what an abusive and awful H I was early on.

180 and detachment is your friend.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's a catch 22
Of course I'm going to get angry, I'm not a fucking robot. I'm listening to the day our marriage died. Of course I may react in a negative manner. The narrative she writes puts all the blame on me. I abused her. I neglected her for years. She liked this imbecile a lot. The dweeb that was around for a couple of months. WTF is that? She didn't like me. We all heard this. The same alien mind fuck. I don't have to list the finer points of the husband I actually was. Constantly working overtime buying her gifts, cars, Harley Davidsons, Louie Vuittons. Why do I have to validate myself?
Conversing with her, as witnessed above, consists of contradictions, love, twisting the knife, and insults.
It's almost like sailing a boat through a storm, I have right the ship. I'm off balance right now. I've lost my bearing.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

180 and detachment is your friend.

I agree with Ats on this...it might just be time to detach and work on you. Get your sea legs back, focus on the horizon. Don't play the "I'll tell you something if you promise you won't get mad game". That's bullshit.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444 - I am sorry you are going through such a brutal time right now. I agree with what the others are saying about the 180. I think it may be time to concentrate on yourself, on your kids, and things that make you happy. From what you've said about your wife, she sounds like a really toxic person to you right now. It may be time to turn away from her. If she comes around and makes a recovery, awesome. If not, so be it. You can't let this marriage destroy you. You'll get through this, one way or another. Hang in there.

Posts: 4557 | Registered: Dec 2010
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for trying to grasp WTF just happened to me today.
She hit me hard and I was floored. In addition to the new confirmation, the lurid details while inciting " I just passed out and woke up naked in his bed"
To the "it's all your fault. I liked him a lot but not you" bullshit"
Sprinkled with " I love you and needed you last night " nonsense
How the fuck can a guy compete with this estrogen laden psychological mind fuck bullshit?
This is like the movie Alien
I should probably just blow her wicked ass right out of the hatch.
She's right, she lost everything and is in no position to dictate anything.
I've learned a lot about strategy. Many schools for tactics. Certified in verbal judo. But I have NEVER graduated a class in this betrayal, I love you but it's all your fault I killed the marriage but I want to reconcile but I can't be honest with you because your weak bullshit.
I need a lift back onto my feet today.
I want to seem like I don't care about this without looking like a dick. I want to not allow this shit to bother me but it does and I apologize for monopolizing the board.
Thanks

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444:
Just PM'd you about what we were taking about last night with the BP and probabtion issues.
Didn't want everybody here to have to sift through a massive post. However I'm more than happy to share if anybody is interested.

now you can continue to tell people that I am crazy etc.

I was typing that up and didn't see you had posted this. Exactly what I predicted was going to happen. After you read the message you'll understand exactly how hard this part of it can be.

I can't trust you.
Ohh the irony.

Not sure what to advise here. You might just need to step back for awhile. Take a breath.

I know that back to dday feeling. Last weekend after prodding from me I found out that on one occasion I had been out sitting in our car. All the while she was in the building making out with the POSER. Subconscious had pieced it together, just need me confronting her to get it out. Wanted to tear my skin off, just had it crawling with disgust. Why can't they understand the tt is just as damaging as the acts of the A themselves?


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are times in this whole recovery process where it is to your benefit to have this stock response in your arsenal:

"I'm sorry you feel that way. I have believed that you were a sensible partner in this relationship who could discuss things and make decisions in a rational manner, but I see now that I was mistaken."

And then leave it at that. This is one of those games you win by not playing. You know she's full of shit, blame-shifting, and living in a fantasy of entitlement and (well) stupidity.

BTW, your wife really needs to stop texting. She presents like a rather dim-witted 15 y.o. drama queen via text. I'm assuming she must be pretty hot, because when she's glowing at an apparent wattage that dim, I can't imagine any other way that she'd attract a decent man unless kidnapping and extortion were involved.

I'm hoping it's just her text manner, but her recent run of decisions have me questioning that benefit of the doubt.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444-

Let me add another WTF. My fiancee (diff than current W) had bipolar issues and she also cheated on me. I recognize the behavior all too well. Stay safe. My Fiancee did some crazy stuff like waiting for me in a dark room to come home. Or she wasn't there when I went to sleep, but was there when I woke up, staring at me, watching me sleep. (Seriously, almost made me wet myself). Today it is verbal insults or making things up tha never happened, but it can escalate. Quickly. Heck she has even gotten physical with you at least once already (I think I remember reading that).

All I can say if you want the M without all the drama, her episodes need to get under control. She needs a psychiatrist.

FWIW - Alcoholism is a very common amongst BPD from what I have read and a professional will not consider that anything unusual. There are plenty of meds that won't interfere with sobriety.

The crazy needs to stop. Only a professional trained in this area is going to help.

You decision is if this is your problem anymore or not. No one is going to blame you either way. It is clear who's fault this mess is.

Take care. You are strong enough to do whatever path you decide, but working on both options while hoping for it to magically work out is what is killing you.

My .02.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WDD3S ^^^^^^(on page 30)

(a little late to the party, this thread is moving fast today!)

[This message edited by stilllovingher at 12:31 PM, June 7th (Friday)]


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444 it seems to me that she is trying to bait and manipulate you into 1) feeling empathy for her when really it should be apathy right now and 2) trying to get you to blow fucking top.

Man I feel for you bro, I really really urge you to 180 hard bud even it is just for a week or two, step back and focus on YOURSELF, do some shit for yourself man, take in some car shows, catch a ball game take your kids to the pool or a park and just hang out, and stop holding her fucking hand financially, I don't mean to be a dick but the bike and the bags and all that other fancy shit you have bought her, dude that doesn't mean shit anymore.

I can see that your tired 444 and worn out. You need the 180 to decompress and let your mind sort itself out while not dealing with this for a couple of days or weeks, cause man you need it, it's just like working out bro, you need some recovery time, think of your brain as your quads, you don't go out and blast out 5 sets to absolute failure two days in a row, you rest them.

I really don't post much because I never really have anything to add that hasn't been said but in this case bro you NEED TO REST YOUR MIND!

Chin up bud take this time for yourself


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed444,
Not to be cliche here but I think WAL hit on something...At this point you need to have some canned responses that don't engage or encourage the verbal diarhea she is spouting. Her words are only hurting you at this point and it doesn't look like she is remotely ready to truly own her choices. Time to protect yourself mentaly and emotionaly too.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444

I don't chime in much on the BM thread except to throw in an occasional WWS or to try and get Tred to comment on how handsome I am. But this shit your going through is fucked up.

She is living in crazy town and trying to get you to move in with her. Stay the fuck out of that neighborhood. 180 is your friend here. To whatever extent you can, IMO, disengage and get some damn breathing room. All I am reading in her texts are "it's your fault." That's classic WW bullshit.

Pissed off for ya.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the record: "I'm sorry you feel that way" is straight out of the acknowledge-without-validating-poor-behavior handbook the clinical staff uses at the psych facility where my wife is an RN.

It's like designed by psychiatrists and mental health professionals to make people's heads explode.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

180 and detachment is your friend.

I agree with Ats on this

And I agree with ats and Tred on this, B444. When I commented yesterday I don't think I had the whole picture. She's not owning her behavior, but is shifting the blame on you. She's practically saying "If only you hadn't been a rotten husband, I wouldn't have felt the need to run around on you behind your back. I'm a good person now, but you're still an asshole." She wants to rugsweep her behavior and wants you to get over it already.

180 and detachment seem to be in order, my friend. I'm so sorry you are going through this, but maybe she'll come around when she stops feeling sorry for herself and realizes that she's about to lose a good man.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, your wife really needs to stop texting. She presents like a rather dim-witted 15 y.o. drama queen via text. I'm assuming she must be pretty hot, because when she's glowing at an apparent wattage that dim, I can't imagine any other way that she'd attract a decent man unless kidnapping and extortion were involved.

I'm hoping it's just her text manner, but her recent run of decisions have me questioning that benefit of the doubt.


WAL
Thanks for responding. Your correct on all counts. She is hot but this situation is breaking her down. She's gaining weight, breaking out on her face etc. one of my biggest irks are the low life's she chose.
My daughter and several others compare her maturity as that of a 16 year old. I know there are some childhood issues but it seems like she stopped at 15 or 16. She acts as she texts. She's ate the fuck up. Constant drama. As soon as she thinks I'm good to go its back to her again. Attitude, depression, selfishness. Shit I just got a text that she was in target. I didn't respond. I knew it would be about wanting something. Life carries on in her world until the next crisis in 5 minutes.
I'm too damn easy. I don't know bow I got to this point. I wish with her I could let it roll off my back. Be unaffected. Let it go. Not have needs. I allow myself to feed into it. I'm invested in it. I'm co dependent. Kids are involved.
Before I left for work this morning I put on my military uniform. My 6 year old said " dad I'm so proud of you, I love it when your a soldier, your so cool".
He made my day. I'm certainly not acting like a soldier inside. I'm trying to be strong for him but it hurts. I know he would want me to do the right thing. I don't have a clue what that is. Seriously. It's like I e jumped on a grenade and I'm in intensive care.
My WW is dim. She had her cake. She enjoys the havoc. Of course she has paid a huge price. Her honor, integrity, freedom. She has a criminal record and a case from CPS. She's not even supposed to be at the house but I flew her father in as an authorized supervisor.
And again she's not hot enough for me to put up with this shit.
And those she was with didn't deem her special enough to continue pursuit. They split without another word. Surely they saw that she was a train wreck. No scruples. She slept with them almost immediately.
She has maybe a couple of friends, the rest are pissed.
My daughter and family hates her.
Why do I stay? Fear of letting go of the fairy tale? Fear of raising my kids alone? Day care expenses? Pity? Love?
Why do I accept this abuse, listen to how it's my fault. She says I have a poor victim attitude.
IDK. This day sucks
To the rest of the world I have my shit together but the loss of her loyalty is difficult to deal with.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:47 PM, June 7th (Friday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the record: "I'm sorry you feel that way" is straight out of the acknowledge-without-validating-poor-behavior handbook the clinical staff uses at the psych facility where my wife is an RN.
It's like designed by psychiatrists and mental health professionals to make people's heads explode.

in that case, often, unintentionally, it works as designed.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I'm sorry you feel that way"

I think the nonclinical version of that is "Sucks to be you."


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't chime in much on the BM thread except to throw in an occasional WWS or to try and get Tred to comment on how handsome I am.

Don't do it, Tred. You'll hate yourself in the morning.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I'm sorry you feel that way"

Quickly followed by "Now can you tell me why you feel that way."

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to go back to drilling holes in skulls to let the evil spirits out. Or Unleash the Leeches, let them suck the demons out.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, great responses so far and I lost the $%#%& post I was composing, but if it adds anything, here goes;

B444, word for word, exactly the same PA control mechanism, it's all crazy making and gas lighting. You're just chasing whisps, I did this for over 2 years not knowing what PA personalities are like and not knowing I was being abused and manipulated. It stops when YOU want it to stop.

The whole, "see, I can't disclose b/c you can't handle it" and "you only want more ammo" -- all the same lines, almost verbatim.

She also basically wanted an agreement to R as a pre-condition.

It's all down in the WW play book word for word... Ignore it.

I know it's hard, you're getting pulled between logic and emotion. And you keep hearing 180 and don't know how/where to start because you want/wanted a chance at R, the 180 might imply you're moving on. Not in the least, the 180 is all about you and here's a few logical, practicable steps I had to take to reach some semblance of clarity (took me over a year and multiple attempts at what I thought I needed to do to attempt R that I finally started getting the gist, so keep at it)

First; grieve the M you thought you had. Grieve and mourn the loss of the perception of your W and the M you never had. The hardest thing is to give up thinking our past was not what we thought or was, and its ok, it's gone and you cannot change that, so grieve it and accept that it cannot be changed, ever.

Second; recognise who/what you're dealing with. This is no longer someone you can trust any WORDs from, only ACTIONS matter. And if someone is showing you who they are, believe them. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that she feels little or no remorse for the pain she willingly inflicts upon you. There is no team here. Sure, you share kids, a house, some sex, finances and some history, but that doesn't make a team. As long as you see her acting in hurtful, manipulative and blame shifty ways, you're under no compulsion to act as a team player. We all want hope, and yet hope is what is paralysing you from action. Acting to protect yourself and your kids (and finances).

Third; that action doesn't have to be threats of D or S or whatever. It's all about you as many have pointed out. Small steps. Hang out with the boys, plan trips with them. Go out with friends, fill your calendar. DO NOT ENGAGE in conversations, texts, emails etc... Classic baiting tactics are to express love and affection (throw in some sex) then open up some blame shifting, end with abuse. Some WSs do this manipulation instinctively, probably down to the PA push/pull dynamic, you won't know it but its manipulation and abuse and you'll feel it but can't put a name to it. Stop trying, it's her problem and she can see an iC about it. Your concern should be to get better for yourself and your boys. Getting better wont start as long as you keep engaging.

Fourth; stop internalising her messages. Yes, M problems exist in every M and yes, you should own them. BUT none of them have any relevance to what is going on right now. NO M problem justifies an A. The A blew up the M. Her one and only tactic is to keep hitting you with her justifications to convince you (and more, herself) that her shitty choices were, well, justified. Just Block out that noise, religious references and past grievances do not a remorseful wife make. Again, stop trying to educate her on that. Every time you respond to her negative message withOUT the kind of response WAL gave, you'll confirm to her that you've internalised her message; I.e. validated her shit choices (which she knows are crazy but she needs validated so she can feel better about herself at your expense).

Fifth; it's not about demonising her or being her saviour, it's about protecting yourself. No more hurts. Period. Broken NC? That's a new hurt. Abuse or controlling behaviour=new hurt, comparing you to AP=new hurt. That's no grounds for R. It doesn't matter how much faith she has found, if she lacks the basic humanness of humility and courage to face the awful choices she keeps making, she's actively hurting you without remorse. Let her know (if she doesn't already know) what constitutes continuing hurtful behaviour (deception, TT, lies, manipulation, not owning her shit, not being apologetic and not treating you like a god for keeping her) and then do a hard 180. From what I read here, that may be a forgone conclusion, as in, forget the list and hard 180.

Sixth; as can be learnt from the sage advise here; let not your M define your life. There is so much more to you. Now is the time to go out and get that muscle car/motor bike you always wanted but sacrificed for all your other 'obligations' (I did, thanks to WAL (all his fault) and I love it charger RT, yeehaw ), now is the time to go on fishing trips or a day out golfing or whatever it is that you've been putting off for years. By all means, obsess about it and discuss it with your friends, just be sensible though

If you really really really think you can do "something" about her/for her. Just get a copy if NJF (Shirley glass) or print out a few of the pinned posts out at wayward (the four h's, Joseph's letter, the lifeboat) and leave it at that. One time deal, don't follow up. Leave the resources lying about or given to her BUT expect nothing. Don't check up on her, don't ask her if she's read them. You already have 2 wonderful children to take care of.

Hope some of this helps


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