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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah she has depression, she was in meds for close to seven years, and stop taking them two years ago because she was sick of not feeling any emotions. Everything was good and there where not any issues. Then the whole fucking a bullshit got blown up and the shit she is going through with her mom which is another huge story all in itself (she owned the house we where living in she went through a divorce, jumped around from a couple houses, each one ending in fights, I invited her to move in with us dday hit, a month later she gets drunk comes into our room gives us a 90 day notice to vacate, just a piece of work) anyways the depression came back, I got her to finally see her doctor about and she got back on meds, and the doctor referred her to a free government metal health thing for coinciding, they played phone tag a couple of times and she still hasn't made an appointment.
Anyways I think that the bathroom part was a lack of insight or thought about boundaries, how ever the hitch hiking and bringing that fuck to my house was goddamn intentional. I mean she would have had to invited this guy over right? He wouldn't have invited himself to stay right??? Unless he was invited he would have just dropped her off and left right? I asked her why the fuck he was still there, says she doesn't know, I aske her if she invited him in, she says no... I call bullshit


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDK, man.
just all seems very strange to me when I try to play it out from my own perspective.
yeah, it does seem intentional, but then why would she try to blame you after, instead of just continuing to blow the situation up. Fucking crazy making trying to dissect this shit!!!

anyway, what's your plan now?


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bring back my old friend detachment and 180 hard, I am done dealin with this shit, I may have finally hit apathy, not sure I really care to much anymore.
The stress of my job which is in the shits because all this bullshit and everything else there just isn't room for this mind fuckery anymore, it's making me sick.

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 12:32 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW,
My wife thinks she was just trying to get back at you. Trying to play the victim, and get some strange when the opportunity arose.

its hard for me to remember sometimes, that different people really do think differently.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if ur done, ur done.
I would be too after that!
I Prolly would've announced to everyone at the party the WW was now in the restroom helping people urinate, if anyone needed that sort of assistance.
And then announced the date/location of my divorce party!


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife thinks she was just trying to get back at you. Trying to play the victim, and get some strange when the opportunity arose.

Don't they always play the victim?
We're the bad guy
They figured our marriage was over
They figured we wouldn't care
We're the asshole
We all know this song
Very convenient to blame shift, redirect, throw some smoke, have a temper tantrum etc....
Crazy is crazy

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I Prolly would've announced to everyone at the party the WW was now in the restroom helping people urinate, if anyone needed that sort of assistance.

Was she looking for tips?
No pun intended

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:44 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

touché


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like how it is plural: Tips.
I am gonna go with yes.

I am just fucking pissed off man.
Probably had a sign for hitch hiking:
Free fuck for a ride home.
It's shame she couldn't get in the house, for both her and me... I have whole fucking tanker full of anger and rage to let loose. Probably better off this way though, don't do my daughters any good sitting in a cell. Although it would have been good for her to see all the fury her actions create.

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 1:18 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: CHEERS TO US

That looks good, jjct. Can't wait to knock back a few beers with you one of these days.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:02 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She does the normal ws bullshit and tries balm shifting it ask why I have been so distant

I hate that I feel like I am pointing at someone else's situation and saying "that's screwed up" (after all, we are all in screwed up messes), but I can't help but see this as enlightening.

Do they evernot use that excuse?

Hell, I was thinking about it earlier today. Mine used that excuse when it was total BS (if I was distant it was because that is exactly what she wanted).

Now, however, I really am distant. Now, I really am supressing emotions.

[This message edited by Later at 3:32 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do they evernot use that excuse?

Everyday I become more convinced this is like some female alien invasion. They all use the same play book.


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They all use the same play book.

My wife cited a lack of communication and intimacy. Which is exactly what she had denied me our entire marriage. Now that she's been caught cheating, I get all the intimacy and communication I can handle. It's crazymaking.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife cited a lack of communication and intimacy. Which is exactly what she had denied me our entire marriage. Now that she's been caught cheating, I get all the intimacy and communication I can handle. It's crazymaking.

Sal I think your the other male.
Mine said that also as well as myriad of many other reasons.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of communication and intimacy. How many of you were 'cardboard cut out' men? I.e no real communication but you were always being ascribed with motives, feelings and reactions? It may have been based on past interactions with you, but eventually turned into a conversation of one and the WWs perception of 'you' in general based off her past interactions and FOO conditioning. An example of that would be DDay itself where she says she 'thought' you'd do this or that, without ever giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I feel as if my entire marriage I've been a cardboard cut out with little similarity to me in person. Kinda goes a long way in explaining the revisionist history. Of course, the AP feeds into that lie but at some point it's all on the WS of constructing an image of you to justify her adultery. I know a lot of WSs might not be like this at all. It may just apply to LTAs where the A was exposed years later.

I know one thing though, that the continual manipulation is based off that 'demon image' of the BS. I don't mean to excuse shitty BS behaviour from before the A. At some point though, there is a disconnect of the BS as a person and the BS 'demon scumbag from hell' who 'deserves' this.

It's compounded by the fact that the WS has a secret life and, in fact, is the one projecting an image of the 'faithful, loving wife' (even if she's doing a crap job of it).

Following on from that, does remorse really allow a fWW to see past that image of the BS?


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow
No escape
That's just it. To justify the affair we are in fact demon spouses. I say this because the "loving spouse" projects an image that all is right with the world. Mine would smile, say the I love you's, put out and do the card board domestic chores. In reality the other face is betrayal and dislike. As mine recently said she liked OM and disliked me.
I never knew. I thought things were perfect. I was asleep. Complacent. I wanted to believe that I guess.
Even love making was rushed or put off. She would be like hurry up or I have to wake up early. Made me miserable and unfulfilled.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Following on from that, does remorse really allow a fWW to see past that image of the BS?

Yes, because part of remorse is recognizing that the way they viewed the marriage (and the BS) was a delusion created to justify the sort of bitter, resentful thinking that led to the A.

(It was, in essence, lazy stereotyping because they didn't want to actually accept the validity and sovereignty of another human being in the relationship.)

That's why whenever a WS shows up here and spends more time talking about their BS and how their BS isn't following the R script or otherwise doing the things the WS wants or expects, I know they're full of shit. Because their spouse still isn't a real person to them -- they're a cardboard cutout who is refusing to follow Little Miss Princess's script.

In situations like that, a BH committed to staying and reconciling is best served by acting as unpredictably as possible on a regular basis. You force her to accept you as your own agent outside of her control. When she makes it clear what she wants or expects as her conditions of R, do some of them and completely ignore others. Pick up new hobbies. Build a life that doesn't include her. Force her todeal with your reality instead of her fantasy of you.

Oh, she'll be a bitch about it and accuse you of game-playing or whatever. Just recognize that she's trying to get you to go back into the cage where she wants to keep you.

Ever wonder why princesses always have unique names, but Prince Charming just gets a generic title? There's some deep chick psychological insight there.

(BTW, most of the content in this post is directly attributable to LadyV, who first developed this theory. She used to always say that the most useful thing a BH could do after D-day was to rock the princesses's boat to constantly remind her that she's not the hero of this fairy tale -- she's the evil witch. She's Ursula rather than Ariel. The step-mother rather than Snow White. Because in all the stories, the true princess is virtuous above all, whereas the wicked other is grasping through connivance and lies for external validation of beauty, youth, and power.)

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 7:04 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of communication and intimacy. How many of you were 'cardboard cut out' men? I.e no real communication but you were always being ascribed with motives, feelings and reactions? It may have been based on past interactions with you, but eventually turned into a conversation of one and the WWs perception of 'you' in general based off her past interactions and FOO conditioning. An example of that would be DDay itself where she says she 'thought' you'd do this or that, without ever giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I feel as if my entire marriage I've been a cardboard cut out with little similarity to me in person. Kinda goes a long way in explaining the revisionist history. Of course, the AP feeds into that lie but at some point it's all on the WS of constructing an image of you to justify her adultery. I know a lot of WSs might not be like this at all. It may just apply to LTAs where the A was exposed years later.

I know one thing though, that the continual manipulation is based off that 'demon image' of the BS. I don't mean to excuse shitty BS behaviour from before the A. At some point though, there is a disconnect of the BS as a person and the BS 'demon scumbag from hell' who 'deserves' this.

It's compounded by the fact that the WS has a secret life and, in fact, is the one projecting an image of the 'faithful, loving wife' (even if she's doing a crap job of it).

Following on from that, does remorse really allow a fWW to see past that image of the BS?


I hate to block quote the whole post, but every single word rang true. I feel like you could have been sitting in my house listening to our conversations.

As for your last question, I swear I asked her whether, given her longstanding views of me, she can really see me differently going forward.

She replied, "she wants to believe."

I told her that is a big concern for me because, if she really believes what she is saying,then she must have had contempt, resentment and hatred for me for years.

It's disturbing on many levels.

- I am literally held responsible for offenses that never occurred, opinions never held, feelings never felt, personality qualities that no one but her thinks I have.

- The passive aggressive tendencies she must have to allowed her beliefs to fester is extreme.

-- In the future, would I have to constantly explain my actions, words spoken or not spoken in order to preempt her from creating this BS in her head? Why the hell should I be the one taking these steps, as though I am the one who was caught having an A?

And then again -- how much of this BS does she really even believe? Is it all a lie spoken with the intent to change the discussion?

Either way, it's not good.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of communication and intimacy. How many of you were 'cardboard cut out' men? I.e no real communication but you were always being ascribed with motives, feelings and reactions?

Kinda goes a long way in explaining the revisionist history.

At some point though, there is a disconnect of the BS as a person

Yep. You really nailed it, noescape. Post D Day, once I was able to piece everything together, I was stunned at the level of disrespect my WW showed me, and I mean even beyond the most obvious manifestation - screwing another man. She texted/sexted him, sometimes literally in my presence. She continued the affair even after our teenaged daughters discovered it. Somehow I was dehumanized during the course of our marriage. And my pain and rage afterwards shocked her into seeing me as a real human being, someone who hurts and bleeds. Who knew? Then I suddenly became a precious commodity that had to be held onto at all costs.

Like I said earlier - it's crazymaking. One thing I'll never underestimate again is the effect of a nutty FOO in shaping a person's character and outlook on life. My wife was a highly functional person for nearly 16 years, then went completely batshit and acted like everyone else in her family. Stupid me for not seeing it coming.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 9:55 PM, June 9th (Sunday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dam Sal, you guys are hitting on all my hot points. It's uncanny.

I don't know whether to be comforted are disgusted by the similarities. Maybe neither - just informed.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
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