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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

antiquated belief that daddy is optional and mom controls custody

Antiquated is right. She abandoned both her marriage and her children, should be viewed as giving up her rights. Not all mothers are the nurturers of the family. Some are absent and some are down right negligent. That should be recognized. Time for the paradigm to shift on this one, or at least be considered as no longer tried and true.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone just said to me, "Happy wife, happy life." I wanted to punch the speaker in the mouth. I am also so sick of the sitcom trope wherein the dads are lovable idiots, and the moms are the tread-upon family brain. Bull. Shit.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am also so sick of the sitcom trope wherein the dads are lovable idiots

my wife says that all the time now

back when I first joined, WAL said two important things that stuck with me:
that chicks don't have the market cornered on this relationship stuff like most preach they do.

and more importantly but unrelated...

BS's spend way too many years fixing problems that only existed in the cheating mind of their WS


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, that is just pure gold there in the last 2 pages!!!!

wish we could sticky stuff up for newly BM's, some kind of redirect right at JFO

I remember practically begging for W to "get it" (yeah, delusional) in the DDay aftermath, if for nothing else (i.e. accepting all the blame for her crappy decisions) then "just for the kids"...

BS's spend way too many years fixing problems that only existed in the cheating mind of their WS

THAT is blinding clarity... WWS, we are not worthy .... etc... I'm sure WAL is tired of it by now.

[This message edited by noescape at 7:21 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

P.S. "for the the children" hence my nickname....

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Random question. Is there anyone else who is convinced that their WW did not have a confidant?

I am, I know a lot of people are pissed because their WW told friends etc. I understand that, However, I have to tell you that it is troubling to believe that someone could go through the A, dday and the aftermath and not talk about it with anyone.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am fairly confident that my ww didn't have anybody to confide in, she has a very small circle of friends and all of which I am pretty sure would not have given their support to her fuckered thought process. Now I could be dead wrong as that is not a question I have asked, but not like I would get a truthful answer in the first place.

It's good to see your still around SG, you've been pretty quite the last little while. I really enjoy your no bullshit, don't beat around the bush wisdom.


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure if she did or didn't. Too much TT. I know her brother knew a bit when it started but she denies telling him more. I also feel that some of the APs were confidants in themselves. Besides, most of her time/thoughts and life have been spent in image management - why risk that image to "get it off her chest"???

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@thinkingclear, I certainly didn’t mean to insinuate that anyone is a “desperate pussy” if they decide to R. That’s just the way that I felt about myself after a year and a half of banging my head against the wall.

dday3302011
I think I understood your point correctly and I certainly respect the choices that you've had to make. My apologies. I was trying to be cute and use everyone's thoughts to compile my own interpretation.

I have gained so much knowledge and understanding from this site. I take away something of value from every single post. Where else can you get almost immediate feedback on your thoughts from people from all stages along this horrible journey of 'Surviving Infidelity'. Whether it is BS, WS, those reconciling or reconciled, divorcing or divorced, just found out or seasoned veterans. My thanks and humble respect go out to you all.

64fleet

what do you do if that is impossible?

Excellent question to which I have no answer. My objective thus far has been to determine for myself what I believe my 'ideal' goals to be. Kinda hard to get somewhere if you don't know where you're going. I think I'm getting my ideal R visualized which is a large step from where I was just a few months ago.

Not sure what the future holds. It's hard for me to think in absolutes anymore. I would have bet my life that I would never have to deal with any of this. I would have bet even more that I wouldn't even have thought about giving my WW a second chance before it happened. I can only say that everyone here has to decide for themselves what they are willing to accept or not accept. In my opinion, it's kinda worthless to try and predict what you would do until the time comes and you're faced with making that decision.

I just continue to take in as much as I can and work it over in my head until I can come up with my own understanding and then just maybe I'll make the 'right' decision for me.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife did have an affair confidante, a woman who knew about the affair pretty much from its conception. My wife used that woman as cover during the entire affair. She was the one my wife was constantly texting, so I was told, and she was the one my wife always seemed soooo eager to see on Friday nights (how stupid am I?). I made my wife go NC with her, and she complied.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 9:46 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@thinkingclear. No apologies necessary my friend.


Image management

Fucking love this. It really describes xWW's entire existence.

If I got the chance to change my unbelievably lame and generic username to something better now that I've had to live with a shitty name for over two years, it would be one of three things, ApocalypseNow, DesperatePussy, or ImageManagementConsultant.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, at first I though you guys would be as big of losers as I am....

Seriously though, you guys have meant a lot to me. I would say more than you can imagine, but I know I am not the only one who feels this way.

You truly are a bunch of insightful guys who understand what family is supposed to mean.

[This message edited by Later at 8:45 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys going to shift gears a bit...

I appreciate your thoughts on what is 'good enough. I saw my IC today. Figuring out what I want extends well beyond M, R, and WW.

Now about what triggers me the most: when I see a sexy, attractive, married woman my age. It's a weird feeling. I take critical notice of attraction when before I probably got accustomed to me being a guy checking out girls and not thinking about it. When I notice the attraction, I imagine doing what OM did, going after her, like I am an OM. I then feel a combination of desire and disgust, as this behavior would be disgusting, and what kind of woman would be the booty call for a married man... then I realize well that's my WW. Trigger.

Kind of a weird projection, resentment, nausea, lust type thing. Thoughts and/or pshychoanalysis anyone?

ETA: this thread is downright good...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:07 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mc I would think that what you are experiencing is an odd combination of the primal vs the cerebral.

Siimilar to the way there is anxiety over wanting to fuck/ protect ones WW and ripping her throat out


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, June 13th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, at first I though you guys would be a big of losers as I am....

We all lose in life some times. Some times it's our fault but not when it's infidelity. Regardless, it's what you do after you lose that will tell if you are a loser. And even then you can still change.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1160 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC:
One thing to consider is that us BS's are always questioning what could possibly be so good in an A that our WW's were willing to throw everything in their life away. That question is in almost every post in one form or another. Its like a cruel joke that there is something so awesome out there and us that are loyal to our vows must be missing out on something. I mean how else do you explain having so little regard for your spouse and in some cases your children. It must be incredible to forsake your children. I mean they traded unconditional love for a piece of candy. Surely that piece of candy has to be the greatest candy ever made...right?

All of us betrayed, those of us that feel that pain, that hurt, know that is not true though. The pain caused is not worth any candy, no matter how good! Doesn't mean the seed of that question isn't planted though. Thats why revenge A's happen. You know the truth though, and you certainly don't need me to tell you this. If your still married and want R, those women have nothing for you. The disgust and values I now attribute with my WW are not things I ever wanted attributed to my character.

I have noticed other married women but for a different reason. I look at them and my inner dialogue starts saying things like:
She looks happy, I bet she's not cheating on her husband, I bet she would never cheat, I bet she goes homes and loves and honors her husband, I bet she's not always playing games trying to manipuate her husband, I bet she's a normal functioning wife, I bet her husband never has to analyze every word and action for its ulterior motive, I bet she understands unconditional love, I bet when she makes love to her husband she really is making love and nothing else, I bet her husband will always feel a special bond with her and only her, I should have married her, how come I'm not lucky enough to marry someone like that.

Doesn't matter if any of that is true or not. At least its a possibility, because I know that none of those things are true with the marriage I have. The fantasy of being married to someone with those qualities has been killed. My wife's infidelity killed it.

WAL: sorry about that third paragraph, another giant red F. The SI editor won't let me create bullets though, so yeah it's not my fault

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 2:57 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 3:24 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, at first I though you guys would be a big of losers as I am....

We all lose in life some times. Some times it's our fault but not when it's infidelity. Regardless, it's what you do after you lose that will tell if you are a loser. And even then you can still change.

In the end we are all gonna lose. Nobody gets out of this world alive. Getting knocked down is meaningless. It's all about maintaining your dignity and getting back up.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:29 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nobody gets out of this world alive.

You're only saying that because nobody ever has.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read of two who have (gotten out alive).

wal, I love your use of 'antiquated'. Could write a whole book on the (at least) 5 decade-long effort to emasculate men.
Advertising works or they wouldn't do it.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, sorry to poke my head in late but wanted to speak to this:

I didn't get a lot of defensiveness, impatience, etc. from my xWW. What I got was a lot of unknowns. A lot of "I'm not sure's". A lot of "I wouldn't have done it if we had a better marriage". I also got a lot of TT. A lot of "he didn't ask so I won't tell" and a shitload of a lack of forthcomingness. (that's not a real word but I like it)

The other thing I got was to be in the driver's seat of R. I like control. I like to fix things. xWW knew that. She took her place in the passenger seat and complied with everything I asked for. Granted she only complied in her unfuckingbelievably passive resistant way, but at least internally she could check the box next to "he asked for it and I did it". The real problem was that she was simply complying and I was giving her more credit than she deserved.

In reality though, she wasn't trying to fix her shit. She was right back in her comfort zone of passive control, and I was too fucking stupid to see it. But I kept reading here, kept feeling like something was missing, kept trying to understand just what the fuck I was dealing with.

I really don't think it's a good idea to give your WS the drivers seat in R, simply because of this. The point for a lot of folks in R taking the wheel is to regain control and to have a say in how things move forward. I think it's good for a lot of WS also simply because it's a clearly defined way to see how they can help things move forward.

The problem here IMO isn't that you were the one steering, it's that you accepted compliance for participation. In the moment it can be hard to see what the difference is so it's not so easy to say that if you'd done something differently you'd have a different perspective on what to accept in the moment there. You said she wasn't defensive or impatient, but the things she did are classic defensiveness and impatience - blameshifting, TT, etc. You said it yourself, you gave her credit she didn't deserve. You wanted to see something that wasn't really there.

Laying out boundaries of what you need and want from your WW and having a goal or plan for yourself - taking the wheel so to speak - is not a bad thing. Expectations that your WW will go to a doctor or a counselor and read what she needs to read to grow into a person who will participate with you in life aren't things that happen organically by passing control over and letting her steer the R-Vehicle, and I can't really see the analogy as useful in any other way because steering something implies control of the direction it's going.

You knew the direction you wanted to go, she failed to meet you there. If she had been capable of doing that on her own - *that* is when the A would never have happened. She demonstrated she is incapable of steering your recovery by showing incapable of steering your relationship. She was drunk driving and crashed the car. Taking the keys and telling her she needs to sober the fuck up or you're kicking her to the curb is about the sanest possible thing you could do there. Not accepting the "I don't know" and "It's your fault" is part of taking control and steering - laying your your boundaries and sticking to them.

If she lies.. well, it's not something you have control over until the truth comes to the light.

I think we all react to this situation in a fear response. It goads a fight or flight - I think every single one of us has been launched into that adrenaline zone and panic survival to some degree - and attacking your wife is just not acceptable. So it's fear management and situational control in a constant state of danger, and that shit is a hard place to make good calls. Getting out intact and sane and protecting as much as you can is an optimal result.

Don't give up control of your ride, IMO. If she doesn't like where you're going just make her get the fuck out and walk.

eta:

Also -

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, looks you crooked in the eye, and asks you if you paid your dues; you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have you paid your dues, Jack? Yessir, the check is in the mail."

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:11 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

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