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User Topic: Help needed here
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is responsible for her own happiness. You have stood by her and it sounds like you are remorseful and have tried to help her heal from your A. She has also stood by you.

Marriage does not make us responsible for the other's persons happiness. This is a lesson that my H and I have learned the hard way. I am responsible for mine, he is for his own. Together, when we are each taking care of our own side of the street and staying healthy, we can have a great M. You W is unwilling to do this for herself. Only you say when you have had enough. If that time is now, then it is. I don't feel that just because on wears a W, that means we do penance for the rest of our lives. You have tried, she is unwilling to come to the table at this point. R takes two. If you were 6 months out, my advice would be different, but you aren't.

I do think you need to let her know where your at. Have you done that?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4759 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Forever_Sorry
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Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do think you need to let her know where your at. Have you done that?

I have. It seems like she doesn't take me seriously. Its not like I am blindsiding her with the way I am feeling. We talk openly about it. I dont think it will really hit home with her until after I am gone. It was about a year ago when she didnt bother to show up for MC that I realized that it was only a matter of time.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
ophelia24
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Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And love too is sometimes about knowing when it's time to let go - for you and them.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you guys for your support. I know this thread isnt directly related to the pain of my A. Or maybe it is still a residual side effect.
Just know this: It's not worth it. There's a reason God told us not to commit adultery. You lose a piece of your soul. Nothing is ever quite the same. Time heals, you get over the AP... But there's always going to be a part of you that is lost and you will never get it back. Some marriages survive, some dont, but they are changed forever.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
heartbroken0903
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Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just know this: It's not worth it. There's a reason God told us not to commit adultery. You lose a piece of your soul. Nothing is ever quite the same. Time heals, you get over the AP... But there's always going to be a part of you that is lost and you will never get it back. Some marriages survive, some dont, but they are changed forever.

Amen to this.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
SandAway
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Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You lose a piece of your soul. Nothing is ever quite the same. Time heals, you get over the AP... But there's always going to be a part of you that is lost and you will never get it back. Some marriages survive, some dont, but they are changed forever

How true & very well said....

Forever_Sorry, you know what you have to do here. It sounds like you have tried and tried and you have reached the end.

If she honestly knows where you stand and chooses not to work on herself after all this time, you know what you must do.

I can see that this isn't easy for you...


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
longroadhome
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Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe, just maybe, this IS about your A. It sounds like you're very sure that you've done all you can. Is there any chance that this has been feeling like complacency to your BW? You're imposing some distance from her because you can't handle it. Do you suppose that's making her depression worse?

What if she's on the five-year plan? We've all heard that it takes two to five years to recover. You're three years in. You, my friend, are rushing her recovery. She has to do it in her own time, when she's ready. What if she's on the ten-year plan? Not everyone falls into an easily measurable timeline for healing. Maybe it takes her longer. Do you love her enough to support her through that...even if you do file for divorce?. JMO, but that's what you really owe her- support through her recovery.

You see, you do have the right to decide that you no longer want to be married. You don't have the right to:

point my finger at her faults as to why I feel this way and I'm sure that I could justify leaving her to myself

If you want out, own it. Don't sit there and blame her because she's traumatized by your actions. Just have the talk, as previously suggested, and make your decision based on the outcome of that talk. Don't blindside her. Treat her with the respect she deserves. BTW, you can and should offer her support for her recovery from your A, even if you leave. Treat her like the family she is, even after the marriage ends. Show your kids how to handle things honorably.

You have the right to decide the outcome of your life. Just do it with an eye toward what kind of person you want to be.

A good book for both of you to read is "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." Mrs LRH read it and recommends it for anyone contemplating D.

[This message edited by longroadhome at 8:33 PM, May 19th (Sunday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Forever Sorry,

I don't know your story. What kind of A was yours? Was D-Day 3 years ago? What happened after D-Day? Was there full disclosure? Was NC immediate? How did you and your wife try to mend after your A? What were the challenges you guys faced over the past 3 years? Did she have any requirements for R? Did both of you express a desire to R, or was it always in limbo?

Just asking to get a better idea of your story, if that's OK. We want to help.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What kind of A was yours? Was D-Day 3 years ago? What happened after D-Day? Was there full disclosure? Was NC immediate? How did you and your wife try to mend after your A? What were the challenges you guys faced over the past 3 years? Did she have any requirements for R? Did both of you express a desire to R, or was it always in limbo?

oh my! I havent told that story in years. You feel like reading for an hour or two?

It's more like a Jerry Springer episode. We were almost guests on Dr. Phil. Maybe you've watched the show Sister Wives... It was a little like that.

OK, let me simplify it as best as I can. I was in an LTA that started in 2005. I told my BS about it in 2007 (DDay #1) After the whole trickle truth, lies, and a million broken NC attempts during which time OW had another A and got pregnant (She was still married). OW and BS became friends and bonded over 3rd party child. 2008 I had a massive heart attack which brought both of our families together as one sick Brady Bunch sort of sister wife thing. 2009 was spent begging BS to go NC with OW. Finally, in 2010, I went NC with both of them. Of course, without me in the picture, OW had no reason to pretend to be BS's friend (I told BS that she was never her friend, that it was just an excuse for her to stay in MY life) and broke my BS's heart, ripping the OW's 3rd party child out of my families life without warning (we were all in love with the little girl). Having seriously damaged my family, I finally woke up out of the fog and went to work healing and fixing all the damage I had done.
My BS spent the next year or so pining away over the lost friendship and child and has refused any sort of help since then.
We have faced many, many challenges over the last 3 years... financial, relationships with our families and friends are still damaged (many beyond repair), our relationship with each other (we dont sleep together, make love, or go out on dates). We are, however much closer as friends. Very honest with each other...Health problems, depression, etc...

Lets see... so far as R goes. It was a see saw battle at first. She wanted to and I didnt. Then I wanted to and she didnt... I told her I wanted a D... She told me that she loved me and didnt want to live without me. So, we let it go and let it take care of itself. There was no hurry, no one waiting in the wings, nothing to gain or lose by going our separate ways so we stayed together. I wanted more than limbo so I started treating my depression, going to IC, and even tried MC without her. She seems to prefer limbo and is afraid to get help with IC and such. And thats kindof where we stand. There are health problems with both of us and we are limited financially because of it. There is more to the story, but that is the jist of it.

ETA: I was a total self-centered, destructive a-hole for about 4 years. I'll be the first to admit that. IC has really helped me understand why I acted that way and how to deal with it if , in the future, I ever start to go down that path again. I truly and honestly recommend IC for anyone who finds themselves going down this path.

[This message edited by Forever_Sorry at 10:18 PM, May 19th (Sunday)]


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmm. I have a lot more questions, but just wanted to ask these really quickly:

After the whole trickle truth, lies, and a million broken NC attempts during which time OW had another A and got pregnant (She was still married). OW and BS became friends and bonded over 3rd party child.

Why was it that your BS became friends with the OW? Was there a point where she wanted you to stop your A, but you didn't, and she wanted you to be happy and tried to befriend the OW as a form of "acceptance"? Or was there something else? Again, just trying to see the picture of your story. Were there doubts about paternity, and was there a time where you and/or your BW might have thought the OC was your child? Was paternity established, and when?

She wanted to and I didnt. Then I wanted to and she didnt... I told her I wanted a D...

What were the events surrounding this? When she wanted to and you didn't, were you still in the A? Or had the A been over and you'd been thinking about pre-A issues? Or something else? Trying to understand what both your thought processes were, and when.

What were/are your BW's biggest issues with your A? Where did she feel the greatest sense of loss?

When did you figure out that the A was not what you wanted, and why? And what led up to you going NC with both your BW and the OW?

You mention that your BW has been depressed? When did you first notice it? Were there things, including the A, that augmented to it? Was there ever a time where she seemed happy, either without depression entirely or like she was overcoming her symptoms?

Thank you for taking the time to tell your story.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:23 PM, May 19th (Sunday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why was it that your BS became friends with the OW?

OW and I were "in love" and I was leaving the M to be with her. It was at my urging, unfortunately, that they got together and became friends. Then BS started watching OC. and it was all over. My wife has a serious weakness for babies.

Were there doubts about paternity,

No, I'd had a vasectomy in 1997 after our 3rd DD was born. Just in case, I had it checked to make sure it was still working once I'd found out that OW was pregnant. I forgave the OW and was planning to raise the child as my own ... I was messed up in the head.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, May 19th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When she wanted to and you didn't, were you still in the A?

No. I was just sick of the whole situation. I was NC with both of them and was ready to move on with my life without cleaning up my mess.

What were/are your BW's biggest issues with your A? Where did she feel the greatest sense of loss?

The betrayal, feeling like she wasnt good enough for me, the trust was huge. She also has abandonment issues stemming from a messed up childhood.

When did you figure out that the A was not what you wanted, and why?

Deep down inside, I always knew. As I watched my life spinning out of control over choices I had made, the damage it was doing to my children, my wife, my relationships, my career... Nothing that destructive can be good.

what led up to you going NC with both your BW and the OW?

They were both tearing me apart. Ganging up on me. (yeah, I know, I ran away from a situation that I created)Pulling me in different directions so badly that I couldnt see which way to turn anymore. I'd break it off with OW and my BS would get us back together... how fucked up was that? I had to go NC with both of them to save my sanity.

You mention that your BW has been depressed? When did you first notice it? Were there things, including the A, that augmented to it? Was there ever a time where she seemed happy, either without depression entirely or like she was overcoming her symptoms?

This falls into the pre A category. It's been going on since about 1997. Anxiety and depression. Suddenly I find myself in the same situation as I did 16 years ago that lead me, eventually, to make the choices that I did. I wont let it happen again. Her problems run deeper than the A. The A just made it a lot worse.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:25 AM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This falls into the pre A category. It's been going on since about 1997. Anxiety and depression. Suddenly I find myself in the same situation as I did 16 years ago that lead me, eventually, to make the choices that I did. I wont let it happen again. Her problems run deeper than the A. The A just made it a lot worse.

It's a difficult place to be in when a loved one is suffering from issues like depression. On the one hand, we know we cannot control how another person handles their health, but then again, in marriage we're a team so we aim to be there to support one another.

You say that this started for her in 1997... not before? Was there something that might have precipitated it, something that happened? Or the abandonment issues you spoke of catching up? How do you wish you would have handled it back in 1997, when it first became apparent to you?

I'm curious, does she acknowledge her depression or has she ever? What has she said about it? You said that she doesn't seem to want to go to MC or IC... was there a time when she did, particularly IC, to address depression? Or has she ever taken antidepressants? What happened with each of those things?

I have experiences with depression. At the moment I'm not on meds, though plans to go back on soon hopefully... but some of the things that make the illness difficult are: being given the wrong meds repeatedly, not necessarily having the right IC (some can do more harm than good and it can take a while to find the right one), wearing the stigma in general and having people treat you differently, forgetting that you're more than your illness... And that's outside the symptoms themselves, the feelings of hopelessness. It's hard because we have to be responsible for our own healing... and in the case where infidelity is added to it, it can make the "normal" healing even longer because we have depression as well.

Maybe there is another way you and your wife can communicate? What if you two wrote each other journals and read each others' journals at the end of each week? Or what if you two figured out what the best, most receptive time of day is for you two to talk and then did, everyday, until it becomes habit? Does she avoid discussing the A? Do you? I'm guessing, because of the very unusual way the A unfolded - with your BW trying to accommodate it and accept it continuing and you going NC with both BW and OW in the end - that there might be a lot of unresolved parts to it, maybe a lot of silence around it? And that your BW misses the OW and her child... Unresolved issues surrounding it, it sounds like.

Is your BW worried that going to therapy or marital counseling might reopen pain she doesn't know if she can handle?

Thank you for being patient with my questions. I ask because I think most of us, and I'm guessing you as well, would want to know we did everything possible before making such a huge decision to end our M, or at least look at all perspectives. It's not easy to heal. And also, this is doing the work on ourselves to make sure we can be the healthiest version of ourselves we can be, whether married or not.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Forever_Sorry
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Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 2:35 AM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thats a lot of questions...
I wouldnt have handled anything different back in '97. I was loving, supportive, and encouraged her to see a doctor. She was on meds for anxiety...still is as a matter of fact. But the truth is that her past has always been too painful for her to face and after 20 years, I just dont have anything left to give her. I just need to recharge my batteries. I am on Meds for Major depression myself. The Pre A stuff is ancient history now. I'd rather not get into it all over again. Just know that we sorted through it painful memory by painful memory.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
SoVerySadNow
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Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another BS here. Hope you don't mind me stopping by.
I'm extremely depressed and devastated by my H's infidelity. I've been on antidepressants before and they really didn't help me- just delayed thought processes. (That's me, no one should project this.) I can't get his betrayal out of my head. The mind movies are haunting and continuous.
I'm working on myself. He's working on himself and we wil be starting MC when we are ready. This weekend H said he's desperately building a ladder to get us out of the deep hole he threw us into.
It's good and appropriate that he's doing that, but I currently have no arms or legs to grab that ladder he says he's thrown me. My soul is dismembered. And I have no voice to even call for help because I'm too weak and my voice is gone from trying to make him understand. I don't see any way out of the hole right now. I may not get out. That's our new reality.

Are you sure that you've climbed down into the hole you dug and carried her on your back while she heals?

[This message edited by SoVerySadNow at 7:40 AM, May 20th (Monday)]


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Update: I talked to my wife about all of this. She says that she is soo over my A and that it has little to do with her depression. Here is her reasoning:
Because she made my A "our" A and spent a year in the fog before I left the both of them and went NC, she understands the addiction we both had to the OW and her attention. We were in the A together and we left the A together (sort of). We've been completely open and honest about all of it over the past 3 years.. How we each felt when we were with her, the mistakes we both made, and when we miss the extended family and the things we used to do together. Over the last few years it's all faded and we've moved on with our lives.

Personally I think that its all bullshit and that she is sweeping some of it under the proverbial rug. She swears that she's not and that I need to forgive myself... she has.

Her depression comes from other issues. Her weight, her bad health (she has had 2 back surgeries and 2 knee surgeries), her lack of mobility, the physical pain that she deals with every day, the pain meds that she takes every day, and the fact that she can no longer do anything with me...(ie, camping, fishing, having sex, go out, join me when the kids have events... etc.), financial issues, worrying about my pain and my heart... My god, who wouldnt be depressed? She's become a shut in. I feel like a selfish POS for even thinking about leaving her. Illness really takes its toll. Hers for me and mine for her..

I am rambling. I am in a lot of pain today and I refuse to take meds for it.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
mephistopheles
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Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Forever,
As a WH, I was where you are now after three years of working on myself through IC, working on the relationship through MC, and wishing my BW would work on her leg of this three legged stool called recovery. I was seriously considering cutting my losses and giving myself a fresh start. It is now five years since disclosure, and many setbacks and meltdowns later but, Gott sei Dank! We are beginning to make progress. I am so glad today that I didn't take the path that I know I would now be regretting. I broke her but could not fix her. It takes more time than you might be comfortable with but she deserves that measure endurance from you. Hang in there, live your life, but don't give up.

Posts: 52 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
tired girl
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Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ForeverSorry,

This I can relate to with her. I had back surgery two years ago and it did not go well, I was just released from my surgeon last week. I am just now getting back into an exercise routine and have been able to keep up with this one for two weeks. That's a record. Every other time I ended up a ball of pain in a week.

I have had to stop doing everything I love, literally. I am a type A personality, this has been anything but easy. Only thing that has saved me has been going to school, least I can use my mind. Hlessons has had to boot me out of room more than once because I was getting horribly depressed between the pain and what he did.

It sucks, to know that the rest of your life you will live in pain. Not whether you will be in pain, but what is your level that day.

Chronic pain sucks the life right out of you. But she can do something about this, and those pain meds don't help. I am off almost everything, I take one muscle relaxer a day and motrin, narcotics are evil. They have their place, but they will depress you.

She needs to get into a support group for chronic pain. It would help. Just a thought. It isn't easy for her or you. Sending you good thoughts.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4759 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another BS here. Hope you don't mind me stopping by.

SoVerySadNow, I never mind the input of the BS's here on SI.

I am sorry for your pain. Every TT makes it DDay all over again. I did that in the beginning.

I understand and appreciate your perspective on the hole I dug. Thank you for sharing it.


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
Forever_Sorry
♂ Member
Member # 23167
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Where's the like button? LOL Thank you Meph and Tired girl.
I will try to find balance and stick with it, Meph.

And that support group is a wonderful idea!!!


When the pain outweighs the fear, thats when you make the changes.

Posts: 334 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Michigan
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