He needed to be with me all the time, told me things he never said, I was a "wondrful woman, made for him, he is incomplete without me, I'm a good woman, good wife, mother, etc." All that shouldn't make me uncomfortable, but it was all so much, so close together...ne never spoke that way before.
I was leary. i didn't want to get emotionally hooked and then him change back to his cool, defensive, closed, independent way again....
Well he did. Now the problems seem to focus on sex. He is withdrawn and frustrated again. He isn't honest about his real feelings when we argue,and he won't be honest about them. Everything is my fault again. He is not getting enoughsex, as my libido is low. I don't refuse him, I will make love if I'm not up to it. He doesn't want to make love if I'm not really into it. He gets upset if I don't have an orgasm. I don't feel like having one every time at 53. Just being intimate makes me feel intimate, and complete that way.
Then he gets withdrawn, and doesn't want sex unless I initiate...he sleeps 5 hours a night, and I know he is more tired than even I am. I don't initiate much. When I tried last night, he rejected me saying he was still hurt by something that had happened two nights earlier. It seems like a passive agressive game being played.
Anyone else in R for several years still have these constant dramas? I feel like WH is insecure, wants something more from the M, and isn't getting it. I'm just worn out by all the drama and want peace. His rollercoaster emotions towards me make me feel he is going to eventually just bounce right out of our M and onto another woman alltogether who meets all those dreams he has that I am dissapointing him about.
An MC could mediate for you both. If you don't want to go into MC or IC right now there are plenty of books that could help you. Intimacy and codependency would be the main subjects I would try to learn more about.
We are in R.
Talk to him about your ideal, and then negotiate a middle ground, i.e., weekly date nights; sex twice a week, he initiates once and you initiate once; sleep routines that encourage 7 hours in bed; etc.
Have you both read the "5 Love Languages" book?
It sounds like your WH has unrealistic expectations of your relationship.
Knowing: He is not in IC anymore, he is reading a couple of books...which is a move in the right direction, as he didn't used to read self help books before. We are going to IC, but haven't been in a couple of weeks due to schedule conflicts. We're due to go in two weeks. It is too far out, as so many things are happening that we can't process with the IC.
knowing: Yes, he does want to have a great relationship...it just isn't working out the way he wants...it is as if he doesn't consider that his idea of a great marriage (me jumping at sex every day and having multiple orgasms...my having one isn't enough for him sometimes when it is just fine with me most of the time...even none is fine with me) doesn't consider my needs for a great marriage.
I have tried to tell him what I need: peace, predictablility, ssecurity, less drama, understanding of my own needs and what I don't need not being projected onto me.
Ladies_First: I like your idea of negotiating so we can both have a say in our M, and come to a middle ground where both of us is reasonably happy.
No I haven't read the 5 love languages book...I have it, and it is packed away still, since we moved. I'll put it on my list of things to do.
update: He was supposed to have to spend the night out of town last night for work, but he made every effort to be back in town. I joked with him that I don't know why he would want to spend the night at home given how it has been. He said it was like sleeping at a hotel: the king bed all to himself the night before at home.
He wasn't angry or expressing negative feelings, so I joined him in our bed...no sex occurred, but at least we both said good night to each other. It was difficult for both of us to fall asleep. There is so much going on underneath the surface that you can almost feel it.
I just can't stand how complicated our sex life has gotten. I hate A's and porn.
[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 10:13 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)]
We are almost 2 years out and dealing with some sexual difficulties as well, but more on his end than mine.
Your FWH needs to have a lot more patience with you. It can be frustrating, but like a PP said, you guys need to find a middle ground and start there. Hugs!
Sleeping all the time? No interest?
Just a thought... I don't know your history but that is the first thing I thought of when I read your post.
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl
Could there be depression?
Sleeping all the time? No interest?
We walked tonight so we could talk without interruption. H said that although he fell asleep the other night when I was talking to him because he was exhausted, and that he wanted to have sex when he woke up a couple of minutes later, it is perfectly normal, and that he felt I was trying to dictate things to him, tell him if he can or cannot have sex when he is tired.
I was hurt when that happened, and my being hurt is the incident that caused this thread. I had no right to be hurt, according to my H. I told him, "I am not good enough to listen to, but I am good enough to have sex with."
More than have sex, I want to be listened to...those are my needs. But for him it all turns into sex.
During our walk he basically reiterated that I had a problem being hurt that he wanted to have sex after falling asleep while I was talking.
I told him that I wish he would just be honest with me instead of playing with my head. I wished he would have just said, "Sorry honey, I'm a regular guy, and I think with my dick."
When I said that he retorted "get away from me" and let go of my hand. He walked quickly ahead of me toward our home. I didn't go straight home, I walked and walked and would have kept walking if I didn't have children, and had a home somewhere else.
sigh....he has told me so many times that all guys think of sex many times a day...everything always turns into thoughts of sex....I guess that means all guys except him....sigh...
He has always tried to be different from any male stereotypes, and I used to believe him...until the A and the porn...sigh.
I wish I could just disappear into a puff of smoke and never be again and never was in the first place.
Thank God I have wonderful children who need me and love me. They expect little of me, and just love what I do for them. I just can't help sighing and feeling like giving up on the M. It is more complicated than ever now that he has quit porn and is "fighting back" with me as he calls it. One minute he is honest, the next he is not. Then he comes back when he was not honest and tries to tell me truth, pretending that what he also said the first time was the truth, the 2nd story is just "better" truth.
This is depressing, and I feel like giving up.
HBH?: I am a male, a wayward (working to be forgiven), and I am happy to report that I do not think about sex constantly. In fact, I am much more focused on keeping my job and being responsible for my family than whether or not I'm being satisfied sexually. In fact, my responsibility has gotten to the point where Heart had to force me to go to see a movie with a friend of the M.
So many things changed for me that it's hard to really pin down what caused this shift in my worldview, but I'm not one to look a gift-horse in the mouth. I've managed to alter my thinking patterns, and that makes me happy enough.
I really hope your WS can get his act together in IC. I know my IC has helped me consider a great many things that wouldn't have been obvious on my own. Then again, IC requires being completely open and honest, otherwise IC is pointless.
He has always tried to be different from any male stereotypes, and I used to believe him...until the A and the porn.
I could be wrong but I see here that your H is having a HUGE inner conflict that has NOTHING to do with you, you are just the easiest thing for him to lash out at.
He is battling who he REALLY is with who he WISHES he was and he cannot accept those parts of him that do not line up with what he thinks he should be, his ideal.
I would recommend trying to detatch so you do not take things personally, step back and try to see what he says and does in the light of his inner battle with himself not as a criticism of you.
Also, I would recommend working on boundaries so you can define for yourself how you will handle him and his ups and downs as he works through this (if he continues to work through this of course, he may or may not choose to get on the horse and ride it out to the end, and if he really does finally get real and is willing to see himself fully and accept himself, good and bad fully, who knows where that will lead him and how you will feel about that person)
I could be seeing this all wrong and if so, just disregard.
As for us, we definitely need to find time to get back into MC.
For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot
I'm glad for you and your BW.
Thank you, but she deserves as much praise as I do. It has taken work from both of us to get here. More on that in a moment...
Thanks for telling me it can get better.
It can. The caveat is, however, that it does require both people to make sacrifices and changes. Eventually, these choices get easier from both sides, but it takes time and consistency. From what you've been saying, your WS doesn't show consistency. This, as I see it, is a problem.
He is not in IC. I don't know if he has been reading his books lately. This morning he got up and made a lot of noise, then when I got up and tried to talk, he said, "Oh you're at it again. Let's just play the not talk to each other game. You need to repent." So it is all my fault again...just like pre-A times.
This, especially the last bit, really bothers me. Sounds like someone's still projecting and deflecting ... issues an IC could definitely help cut through.
Reading books definitely helped me, but I worked through them together with Heart. Perhaps you might try working through the books together? I don't know if that would help, but it might force him to actually look at some of these issues that trouble you and him both.
But deep down, he is an average Joe. He has told me and our daughters many times that guys see anything and it translates in their minds to sex....all day long.
But not him....
He came home from work today and has been short, and snotty to me since he arrived. He says I have to "look at myself."
I was going to go to a motel to get away from him, but I realized I don't want to be away from our 3 children, just him. He told me to leave, do whatever I want to do. I told him what I explained above, and that I was going to stay and just be miserable with him, but enjoy our children.
He is very angry I said the thinks with his dick. He says I am the master of insults. I told him I was just stating what he has been telling me and the girls for months...except he think that all his insights about men exclude him.
I told him, "Why don't you just admit the truth, then we (he and I) could have a good laugh, and we could both accept that part of him for what it is." He said I am just mean and again the master of insults.
I think all hope is lost. I didn't say it to be mean, but to cut to the chase hoping he would apologize for the other night and we could laugh the next time he falls asleep and wants sex when he wakes up a couple of minutes later. He is not budging that I am just insulting him and am mean.
I like your idea of reading the books together, but he keeps them close, he doesn't want me near them. He thinks I will use it against him, I guess.
I love him, but I can't stand the constant push and pull game. Oh yeah, he also called me a liar today...he said I am lying about just wanting to be mean.
He just doesn't get how intimate sex is and how much work it is for me...and how aware I am of his sleep deprivation due to long work hours. That combination just kills it for me.
He says he'd rather lose sleep (sleep 4 hours instead of 5) so he can have sex. I don't want him to die early of a heart attack. If he is too tired to listen to me talk, I totally understand. But to then wake up and want sex? I'm just a thick headed, stupid idiot...I just don't get it. Now I'm hating myself again.