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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: perspective please
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Have your spouses said that they wanted to stay with the AP? Or that they preferred them? What are the actions that make you believe they would have preferred the AP?

No. It was never said. But just the fact that there was an AP was what he did to make me think that, to FEEL that really.

I felt his distance at the time, felt his disapproval, looking back now...his comparison as well.

My IC keeps saying. "But he's with you. He's obviously chosen you." She says this like this is supposed to make me feel better. No it does not make me feel better. If I was first choice, there never would have been an AP.

I am sorry, but this is a tough thing for me right now. I am struggling with it. I am angry.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jun 2012
Jospehine85
♀ Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you knightsbff. You expressed what my WH has struggled to say.

As a BS, it is just difficult to keep it in that perspective: we were 2nd to the WS' egos, but not 2nd to the APs.

Reading your note reiterating this distinction is VERY helpful to me.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 894 | Registered: Jun 2012
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Josephine,

I'm glad I could help.

When I read that to my BH he said, "you still chose him over me at the time."

I understand my BH feeling that way but it isn't accurate.

My IC works with me on accuracy in my thinking and it helps me to process the garbage I have to dig through in the work of healing myself.

My BH is working on his healing. I have faith that he will know that he is/was not second to anyone. I work to show him that daily. That's what I can do to help.

Edited to fix typos

[This message edited by knightsbff at 11:01 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
mamak
♀ Member
Member # 35969
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My IC keeps saying. "But he's with you. He's obviously chosen you." She says this like this is supposed to make me feel better. No it does not make me feel better. If I was first choice, there never would have been an AP.

Mine would say the same thing, made me furious. Of course this was the same lady that thought I needed IC (along with the MC) and that WH didn't need counseling at all.....


Me - 37, Him - 34
Married - 12 years
Three kiddos (oldest is mine) - 9, 11,13
DDay #1 - 4/21/2012, Discovered 3 mo. EA (texts, phone calls, nude pics, sexting, 1 kiss)
R - 4/24/12. R going well

Posts: 287 | Registered: Jun 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokensmile,

I am sorry that you are hurting right now. I understand your hurt, and I know it is so very hard to understand that it is not about the person that our spouse's pick. Because it feels that way. It feels so very personal.

I know when I did what I did, it was all about the destruction of myself, the betrayal of myself, it was all about me. The other person didn't really even factor into it.

It isn't about your H has chosen you now, your right. Because that feels to much like a contest. It should hopefully be about him choosing himself, and wanting to be authentic and honest, and fix his shit. And in the process of doing that he remembers how very much he loves you, and how he lost sight of that in this process of losing himself. I hope that is something that is becoming clear to you while you watch your H and he is remorseful. If it isn't, then he isn't there yet, and I am sorry for that.

I hope that you have some better days that are coming up and that this helps some.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
jellybean22
♀ New Member
Member # 38732
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate that feeling. I've used the term "consolation prize" with my WH many times.

He wrote our marriage off, wanted to divorce. That's when the A happened. He and she talked about their future together. With her he was happier than he'd been in years. They ended it before I found out and I still feel like he mourns her and he's with me because it didn't work out between them. And I hate feeling that way.

When things are good between us I can push that feeling away. But when we have a setback, it's right there. I feel like he's here because of the kids or out of obligation to try of for our families or simply because he couldn't have her.


Me: 37 BS
Him: 38 WH
M: 11 years, T: 17
2 boys
DDay: 3/11/13
Status: In MC/R, Retrouvaille graduates

I'm not what I ought to be. I'm not what I want to be. I'm not what I hope to be. But thank God, I'm not what I used to be.


Posts: 43 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Limbo
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jason-

First, I'm so sorry for the pain you're going through. I know that there's little we can say here that will really help. You will come to terms with this in time. Trust yourself first. All we can do is try to explain what we've experienced. It may be similar to what your WS went through, it may not. One thing I am absolutely certain of is this...the A was not about anything you did or didn't do. It wasn't about you, it wasn't directly aimed at you, it was not a statement about who you are. It was all about your WS, their misdirected needs, who they were at that point in their lives and the lousy coping mechanisms they used to deal with that.

Think of it using the old addiction analogy. A substance abuser isn't choosing their addiction over their family. In fact, they need to be told how their addiction is affecting the family and that continued addiction runs the risk of losing their family. In some cases, the addict wakes up and does the work so they don't lose the people they love. In some cases they are too sick to be able to do that. Either way, nobody in the world thinks that the family was lacking in any way. The addict either works hard to recover or they dont.

An A shares many of the same traits as a drug addiction. Its about what the WS is getting from the A. The ap doesn't matter, its about the high. An alcoholic may prefer vodka, but gin will do if it has to. Think of the ap as Boone's Farm and the BS as a fine wine.

The biggest problem is that, whatever it was that the WS needed, they didn't know how to ask their BS for it. Because of some brokeness that's inside of them, they chose to look elsewhere to meet those needs. It was wrong, horrible painful, a shitty thing to do, but it was not about the BS.

Try to remember that if your WS is there, remorseful, trying to R, doing the work, being transparent, learning to communicate openly, then they did make a choice. There was a choice, leave for the ap, or even just to start anew, or stay and fight for the person they truly love. They are choosing to get sober, and they are choosing YOU over everyone else.

Whether that's too little, too late or not is the BS's choice to make.

I'm so sorry your hurting. I hope my rambling at least helped a little.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 12:38 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The A wasn't about how great the OP was. It was about how messed up I was. I know it's hard to fathom, but it's true that my BH wasn't in second place to the OM. He was in second place to my selfishness. There wasn't anything about the OM that was so amazing. He just told me what I wanted to hear when I was in such a broken place that I put that need for validation ahead of everything else.

When I chose R, it was not because I saw my H as second best. It's because I finally figured out that I had to stop hiding, put to rest my fear of abandonment and put him and our marriage first over all of those things.

My fWW said the same thing.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5695 | Registered: Aug 2007
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDK. I feel that if my WW slept with him, felt guilty, then went back the next day. That's a conscious choice of him over me. Everything in her world was second to him. Because only he could get her to where she wanted to be.


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 133 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To the BSes - it has nothing to do with you. The WS did not cheat because of you and the WS is not working on R because of you.

Step back from your own story for a moment and look at the broader range of human behavior when they have poor coping mechanisms. Whether the damage inflicted is verbal abuse or physical abuse or alcoholism or workaholism or violation of any of the marriage vows (love, honor, cherish, forsaking all others), the spouse is absolutely not being considered compared to that coping mechanism for that duration. Your (BS) feelings are accurate on the point. But while your feelings are valid, they do not reflect the WS's intentions.

Stopping engagement in the poor coping mechanism takes a lot of energy. Think of how difficult it is to stay on a diet even when you know it's the right thing to do - I'm not being facetious, just pointing out the spectrum of human coping mechanisms and the energy it takes to change.

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6101 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.


So true. It did not happen overnight.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.

I would add that making the decision to start this process is one of the scariest decisions a WS can make. It's scary enough that many M have failed because of it. my two cents...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you to all those WSs who answered this. You have no idea how much it helped me. My WH has a long road ahead of him before he will even be ready to see this. But, I love him & I intend to hang in there until he does.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
GraceisGood
♀ Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jason, you have gotten some wonderful perspectives to really think about from the FWS in this thread and I hope you are able to take them all in and really process what they are saying.

I see two things here, one is the BS side of things and how we view ourselves and the A, etc and being able to fully step back and to see it all for what it REALLY was, not an easy task nor a quick one. For me the reality of all this still pieces itself together even though I can shake my head in agreement when I read the responses on this thread there are still ah ha moments to be had I am sure, it is a continual awareness IMO.

Second, sometimes this feeling is more than just how the BS views themselves and the A but a "gut" thing. If that is the case (even if it is just a part of this, cause it can all be intertwined and messy ya know) then it does seem your W has some responsibility in this as well.

Your "feeling" right now could be your gut letting you know your W is not or has not done the work she needs to be out of her particular WS mindset. It has been my experience that as a WS shifts their mindset, grows in their awareness, it helps how we "feel" in this area (and I am not just talking feelings here but those deep down gut "feelings" YKWIM), it does not take away the work a BS needs to do, but it puts to rest one aspect that is helpful.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3459 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
cs2384
♀ Member
Member # 34873
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We had a very rough go after d-day. My husband was abusive before and after the affair. I did feel like I was settling with him UNTIL I decided to change me. All through our our ten year marriage I let him bulky me around. I was too afraid to say anything and thought that I was just picking my battle. This went on for ten years until I allowed myself to be in an extremely volatile state of mind and had an affair. Because the OM was so nice to me he really cared about me and thought I was beautiful

A year ago I would have said I was settling with my BH. But really it was me. I had LET myself be hurt and let him treat me poorly. I started placing boundaries and he respected them. There were some growing pains but I found out that ultimately he wants to see me happy, even after all I had put him through. And he realized that he didn't let me have boundaries and appreciated that I still wanted to be here with him. We're both messed up in our own ways. Once we both took responsibility for our own actions things really turned around.

So, no. My BH is definitely not second best. He's still as handsome as the day I married him ten years ago. He works hard on improving himself. He works hard to take care of our family. We have the same religious and political beliefs. We have two amazing children together. We have the same goals for the future. We are trying to be better individually and together. OM can't even compete. . OM is weak and has tried fishing. I find this pathetic as he's 15 years older than me and has 4 kids of his own. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit. What kind of man would treat his family that way? OM is a hypocrite and has major, MAJOR issues. Yeah, my husband isn't perfect. But I'm not perfect either. But my husband has been here despite the hurt I've put him through. Who could ever beat a forgiving man, who is trying?


WW--me 28
BH--32
Married ten years
Two daughters 7 and 8
In recovery

Posts: 87 | Registered: Feb 2012
RightTrack
♀ Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH called his AP ten times a day for two years. He texted her while we were sitting next to each other on family vacations. He called her from my son's birthday party. He cashed in all of our air mileage to fly across the country repeatedly for sex week-ends. What is that? That's a relationship like no other. He's never been one iota that excited about me. I hear what you are saying (and thank you for the WS's chiming in) it just flies in the face of the evidence I see in our phone bill.

Posts: 629 | Registered: Sep 2012
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is that? That's a relationship like no other

It's actually not much different from any other coping mechanism. He avoids intimacy with you and the family. That is his escape. If he had married her, he would still be escaping with another affair or sone other intimacy-avoidant behavior.

It is somehow more acceptable if it's workaholism (some are always on their laptop, even on the beach, at the game, in the den - physically present but emotionally far away) or alcoholism (always biding time until the next drink, again, physically present but not really engaged) or whatever.

To engage emotionally in the here and now is the sea change.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6101 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I add the following to the many insights above: My W & I talk periodically about this. The things my W says in response to open-ended questions coupled with her recognition that her 'relationship' with ow was sick have given me a sense of peace. She's said time and again she prefers me to ow, and she can give specifics.

Ultimately, though, I think this is a question of self-talk and sense of self-worth. IMO the only way to resolve this permanently is to stop the internal messages that destroy self-esteem.

Until I made myself my own first choice, I didn't really hear what my W said.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:21 PM, May 27th (Monday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10345 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
jasonguitarboy
♂ Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At this point, for me, its all just so formulaic. The responses are so standard. Almost cliche at times. Some are more in depth and original and it makes me think those are the ones that are really putting some effort in...

I've heard variations of "my BS had nothing to do with my decision to cheat", well your BS had nothing to do with you remaining loyal, that's for sure. If they were your first choice there wouldn't have been another person in the picture. If we were enough, if we were THAT special, THAT important... you wouldn't have strayed. I do agree that the issue lies within the individual who cheats. I was in the same relationship dealing with my own set of problems and I didn't choose another person. It kinda seems like by choosing to have an affair you are blaming your partner for the problems within the relationship.

I think for most of us BSs this experiences makes it to, at least, the top 3 list of the worst thing you've ever been through or can imagine going through. Its really bad. It changes the way we see the world. It changes the way we think. They say you can't change a person. I beg to differ. Right now I don't feel I could EVER be comfortable in ANY romantic relationship, EVER. That, in itself


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 189 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
RightTrack
♀ Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jason, I'm glad you posted this. This is how I feel and how I have felt all week-end. I've been really depressed instead of out enjoying being with my family. Unexpected Song hit the nail on the head I think with my WH. I'm going to share that post with him. As for the similar way I'm feeling it strikes me that I'm simply not allowing myself to be happy and this is a defense mechanism. Maybe when more time has gone by and the pain of discovery is not so fresh I'll relent.

Posts: 629 | Registered: Sep 2012
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