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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Help... :(
permanentchange5
♂ New Member
Member # 36547
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

My wife and I are in about 1 year of recovery. I was the cheater and through therapy both individual and MC, we are slowly, ever so slowly making recovery. I am still sleeping downstairs and we've had ups and downs.

She's had full disclosure for a while now, but recently we've hit a few ruts.

We had a huge fight last night. It would be so much easier for me to just accept everything, all the seemingly unrelated anger and frustration and impatience just for her benefit, but of course this isn't as easy. I understand the times when she is upset and deep down why and even though I follow through with her requests on how to follow through with things, she's still so very angry.

There are fleeting times when things seem to be good, but my wife is regularly impatient, unhappy and angry with my actions especially if I make a mistake of some sort in the house. I'm not really upset by that as I do understand, but I question if we really are in reconciliation.

I am doing everything I can right now through recovery. I am in it for the long haul, but some things are beyond my power to change or control. What came out last night is that she is so sad she married someone who had/has the flaws I did/do. Despite real changes that have finally occurred in my life, even outside of our marriage that were needed, fact is she's upset she married someone who was a narcissist for so long before he understood the source of it all. She told me in blunt words "and yet I married you" Yes I hurt her more than anyone else could. But I don't think we're in reconciliation.

She internally drew her line in the sand that if I cheated, she'd be gone. Well I did and she didn't leave and it just kills her as she feels she has lost respect for herself that she didn't. She knows she is a good person that doesn't deserve this and I think she cannot come to grips with her decision to stay. She's mourning I think that she didn't leave. She resents the good things I do I think as it puts on the table that we're working in a positive direction. And that makes her unhappy as it is a reminder that she decided to stay, instead of leave.

I hope this makes sense as it's just pouring out now.

We both cried last night. Me because I didn't disagree with her. Yes I was a prick for so long, but I can't stand the person I was. For the past year, I am finally focussed in the right direction. For me, the kids and mainly for her. But what am I supposed to do? Agree with all her comments? Or stay and fight for my wife, kids and marriage?

We have therapy tomorrow and much of this will come back and out. But any thoughts would be great.


Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here

It sounds like you are doing the necessary work on yourself. That is very important, probably most important. But...

What are you doing to win her back?

What are you doing to make her grateful she offered the gift of R?

How are you making her feel special?

How are you wooing her?


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Aug 2012
permanentchange5
♂ New Member
Member # 36547
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Chico,

Thanks for the response. You raise a good point. I did for some time try and plan things. We have 3 kids and a busy life and sometimes she prefers to stay in. She's not a movie fan and tires easily (i.e. if we went out for drinks). I have taken her out many times for dinner, but I think that's the extent of what she feels comfortable with at this point.

We're in a tough state as she is quite regularly angry and upset with my actions, especially if I make a mistake of some sort. She makes a point of trying to be distant at times, doesn't want me to touch her, she likes her space. She wooing her is difficult to get my head around when right now, I don't think she would desire it at all.

I tell her I love her regularly, bring home gifts or do small actions in areas I think she can use them. But as I said above, I think these have a negative affect too as they show her my effort, and that reminds her that she made her line in the sand she she didn't follow through on....which triggers anger, resentment etc.... It's just such an awful circle we're in.

We both love our kids, and perhaps that was the largest deciding factor for her.

BS here

It sounds like you are doing the necessary work on yourself. That is very important, probably most important. But...

What are you doing to win her back?

What are you doing to make her grateful she offered the gift of R?

How are you making her feel special?

How are you wooing her?


Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2012
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Permanentchange

Really dinner that is all you could come up with? That is sad so let me help.

First let me explain why as a BS that ticked me off. Most WS woo their AP love and laugh and give a rats arse about what the AP person likes while all along the spouse at home that gave birth to YOUR kids would took half of that attention and delighted. Soooo now get busy given a hoot!

Write her a love letter and put it under her pillow.
Go shop for her (look at her closet for a recent article she wore for size please of kind you are wanting to buy her). If you must get a wrong size get a smaller size.
Does she do the crossword puzzle in the local paper?? If so call them and tell them you are needing their help and do it every month.
Put little phrases in there Love You and insert her name etc.

Has she ever said oh I would love to go there a city or such?? Make it happen.
What did she do before you had kids. Ie crafts or maybe gun shooting matches I don't know what ever. Go there do that with her!! Act like you give a rats ass. Sorry.. But your dinner only well just grabbed me so darn hard.

For instance I got bored with my life recently decided we were going to go RV. Didn't tell spouse bought one (cheap) flew him to get it on our anniversary!! His first time flying too He had no clue he loved it. He hates to do anything but hey I took charge! Take CHARGE!!
Yes you cheated NOW make life changes. How do you want your kids to live. Do they like to camp? I picked up a great RV for $5000.00 Didn't need much and it is something we enjoy doing together! Think together as a couple then thick family and get off the couch and back into her bed!!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and permanentchange the reason it grabbed me so hard is it sounded like my spouse! He wants to feed me and I would prefer doing. Hiking and such... Good luck and we all here can help you on romantic things to do for her! Just give us an insight as to what she likes.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Two great book we read to rebuild our relationship were:

The marriage you have always dreamed of

And

5 Love Languages

If she is not up to working with on this yet try 5 life languages alone. Doing thing for her that reach her. You guys may be speaking he wrong languages to each other.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Aug 2012
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you asked her what she wants/needs to feel safe? How has she answered? What have you done in response? If you're having trouble here, the 5 Love Languages may be a gigantic help to you both.

It's possible she is having trouble letting go of her anger - it sounds like you think so, at least. Have you discussed her anger in MC?

If she's uncomfortable with her decision to R, that's a problem she has to resolve for herself. Is she talking about her discomfort in MC? In IC?

Similarly, if she's upset that she chose you, that's a problem she has to resolve. One would think, however, that continuing to up your game as an H will make her think twice about choosing a do-over....

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:44 AM, May 27th (Monday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi permchange5,

It does sound like you are trying but when you do she resents it, or you get it wrong according to her and when you are constantly critiqued it is hard to show acts of love. I get that. I used to do this to my H. This is something I am working on in IC.

However, I would get on that 5 Love Languages book by Gary right away. Or even just check out his web site by the same name. There is a quiz you can both do. Ask her to do it too.

Really try to speak her language every day for one month. Some new habits need to start taking place with you stepping up to take the lead.

As for your wife....it sounds like accepting love is not a comfortable thing for her at this time. If you are in R, both parties need to work on this. If you work hard and she keeps pushing you away then at some point, you are going to have to revisit what you both really want in life.

Good luck.
LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 11:48 AM, May 27th (Monday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2462 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Permanentchange, do you realize there are stages to R that most BS go through? They are similar to the stages of grief -- denial, bargaining, depression, anger and acceptance.

It sounds like you are are trying to control the outcome. I mean, if you do this or that for your wife you think she won't be angry with you and you are shocked and saddened when she is angry because after all you are trying so hard..... It's a stage of this process. It's going to happen regardless.

Yes I was a prick for so long, but I can't stand the person I was.

Neither can your wife.

I was very angry that I married with narcissist traits (among others) and put up with him being a prick for so long. I told my husband exactly what your wife told you -- and worse. It was part of the anger stage and also part of the bargaining stage I suspect. If I hadn't married him, none of this would have happened. I was pissed at him and I was equally pissed at myself. How could I have been so STUPID?! I suspect you are getting the anger that is directed at you and also getting the anger that is directed at herself.

This is a stage of acceptance that a BS goes through. Before accepting the affair and all that - realizing how much shit we put up with and accepting that we did in fact put up with far too much. It's a struggle to face that little fact too. This may not be all about you at this moment PC, this could be about your wife having to face what she tolerated at the cost of her own self-respect and what that says about her.

There will likely be resentment that you are doing things NOW and didn't or couldn't do these things BEFORE. That life didn't need to turn out this way. You could have done something differently and she could have done something differently.

It took me a long time and therapy to separate my husband now and the changes he's making vs my husband then. It doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't even happen with a year of you being focused in the right direction. And if you really look at the timeline of TT and remorse etc, has it really been as long as you think it has?

But what am I supposed to do? Agree with all her comments? Or stay and fight for my wife, kids and marriage?

Are her comments correct? It's the way she feels and she's entitled to feel that way, you can either accept it or not. You can point out that that was then and not now, but it's hard to argue that you weren't a prick if you were one. And if you disagree, that will probably just make her angrier.
Why do you feel it is an either/or situation? Can't you say you accept her anger and understand it but you are still going to find for your family and you are in it for the long-haul? You hear about WS needing to develop a tough skin and not shame spiral and this is why.

For the past year, I am finally focussed in the right direction. For me, the kids and mainly for her.

To make this stuff stick, you need to be doing this mainly for yourself. If she thinks you are doing stuff just to appease her, she'll see through it.

Do you really understand why your wife is angry and what is behind or underneath all that anger?


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes I was a prick for so long, but I can't stand the person I was.

That 'prick' was only one part of you - hopefully that is becoming clear to both of you.

Personally, I can't see reconciliation encompassing the sleeping separately downstairs thing - how can you two get close if you cannot touch, and breathe together? Be vulnerable together? I haven't read your story so I don't knpw how "heinous' your betrayals and therefore the graph of recovery; but I do know that oxytocin and various other hormones and endorphins are crucial to the re-bonding process.

An antiversary is a particularly incendiary or poignant time - what can you do to make the difference here?


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 5123 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to add about the sleeping apart issue, we didn't do that, but I've read other R couples who did. I had a few days I needed my space and it was very hard for my husband not to panic, feel abandonment, and force his way into my space. Eventually he realized that's the way I needed to work through things.

As far as Love Languages go, it's hard to know what another person wants/needs if they don't express it. Early on my husband and I each wrote a list of 20 things we wanted to do to reconnect and we would choose something off that list to do it together. Sort of a bucket list. We made an effort to connect, some days I didn't really feel like it.

I hope your wife can work on her anger. I needed EMDR and it helped me a lot. It got better.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
permanentchange5
♂ New Member
Member # 36547
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you. Everyone.

You all make fantastic points. Perspective is the greatest tool at this point. I need to hear from others so I can understand.

It is hard to be loving and giving and romantic when I an critiqued and criticized and told not to touch, she wants space etc... I understand why she needs those things, does those things, but my lack of creativity is based mostly on trying to serve her desires at this point. I do want something new for both of us, but right now I strongly feel I just need to be patient.

It does sound like you are trying but when you do she resents it, or you get it wrong according to her and when you are constantly critiqued it is hard to show acts of love. I get that. I used to do this to my H. This is something I am working on in IC.

LA44, you hit the nail on the head. And while I wish neither one of us had our experiences, I am grateful to read your experiences as it makes sense.

I was very angry that I married with narcissist traits (among others) and put up with him being a prick for so long. I told my husband exactly what your wife told you -- and worse. It was part of the anger stage and also part of the bargaining stage I suspect. If I hadn't married him, none of this would have happened. I was pissed at him and I was equally pissed at myself. How could I have been so STUPID?! I suspect you are getting the anger that is directed at you and also getting the anger that is directed at herself.

This is a stage of acceptance that a BS goes through. Before accepting the affair and all that - realizing how much shit we put up with and accepting that we did in fact put up with far too much. It's a struggle to face that little fact too. This may not be all about you at this moment PC, this could be about your wife having to face what she tolerated at the cost of her own self-respect and what that says about her.

There will likely be resentment that you are doing things NOW and didn't or couldn't do these things BEFORE. That life didn't need to turn out this way. You could have done something differently and she could have done something differently.

It took me a long time and therapy to separate my husband now and the changes he's making vs my husband then. It doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't even happen with a year of you being focused in the right direction. And if you really look at the timeline of TT and remorse etc, has it really been as long as you think it has?

DixieDevastated, thank you for this as I think you have nailed where we are, where her and my head is. I love her to death, but again, here comes perspective. You're right, it has not been that long and though I wish I could be evaluated on my body of work for the past year, fact is there is almost 19 years of material I am hoping she puts aside and doing so is unreasonable is that short a period of time.

I do understand the anger. I apologize regularly, I tell her I love her regularly, I do try and think ahead of what she would like. SHe's stressed at work, I send flowers, clean the house, I try and own and think ahead of everything. But sometimes she's angry and hat's all. Maybe because I am grumpy, or maybe because I am being super sweet. It doesn't matter, but I am really ok with this. I guess I just feel we've gone about as far as we can and we've been stuck in this place for a good while now I question if we can get any further. I know she needs a safe, trusting environment and I comtinue to try and provide for that. But sometimes, I am just not able to control, or calm down any anger or resentment and it happens so regularly now that that is what I am concerned about. I don't think she's anywhere close to letting go of her anger and while I understand I fear that we may be a case of failed reconciliation.

Thanks all.


Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2012
faithhopelove23
♀ New Member
Member # 39211
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You also might read up on information on "triggers". As the BS, certain things/saying/times trigger me to respond angry/harsh/pullback, etc. They are not always things that WS would think of. But you know if he seriously asked me and we could sit down and discuss at least the ones I know about, he might actually get a large clue as to how to avoid them and others. But he hasn't tried. He'd rather just ignore his behavior and use the original apology and blame me for still having issues with his behavior.

I found an article called Post-Infidelity Emotional Triggers...you can google it and find it. It was worth me reading and I almost sent a copy to WS......but I honestly don't want to be the one who tells him what he HAS to do (that was one of his reasons for wandering supposedly )


Posts: 11 | Registered: May 2013
Wonderingwhy11
♀ Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the height of my anger stage (at about year after DDay - it lasted that long for me), I would ask my WH why he couldn't tell me what was wrong. Why did he have an A instead of turning to me? I finally got the A was not about you speech - which I do understand now.

I couldn't understand why he wanted to stay married to me. Why did she matter so much?

I used to think OW got to see the fun side of WH. They had mini vacations I did not get because I was home "babysitting" our children, taking care of the house and working while he was on vacation with her- when I should have been there. I thought of all the vacations I wanted to go one but got some reason why we couldn't go or why he didn't want to go. I got the stressed man and she got all the fun. She never saw the real person and it wasn't fair that I got all the flaws and she got the great fašade. Thinking this made me angry. Realizing how selfish WH became made me angry.

It hurts thinking you are in a marriage together for better or worse and they decide to seek escape with someone else and lie to us about it. I would tell WH I wanted to escape but felt I couldn't I had responsibilities. I was angry because I felt I was more responsible. I have been hit on by other men but I would never cheat. I thought he felt the same. It was devastating when I found out he didn't think the same.

How to move forward is difficult. Even though WH has shown change in his behavior (with help of MC) I needed more time to see the change was permanent because I heard it before.

Maybe your BW needs to see the change in you a little longer. She needs to see you mean it by your actions - words don't mean anything. Maybe she is afraid to trust you again. I know this sounds like I am venting but I am trying to give you something a BW might be thinking.

You need to work on creating a new marriage. You need to form a lasting bond together so she knows she can rely on you.

The sleeping apart is not good for your relationship. How do feel close to each other again? How do you recreate the bond?

Keep working on you. She needs to do her work. You both need to work on the marriage. It takes communication, commitment and strength. That is why it is hard to R. Good luck.


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
twodoves
♀ Member
Member # 39181
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a BS who is also a wife and mother, I noticed you said that your wife is too tired to go out and do some things.

What if you took over some of the chores and home, and helped get the kids ready for bed, etc, so your wife will have some energy later on for couples time? Maybe get her some nice bubble bath stuff so she can relax and unwind while you take care of the kids?


Me - BS
Him - WS (N3v3rG1v1ngUp)
Together 7 years, married for 2
He was cheating for 5 years
5 OW
D-days: 4/23/13, 4/27/13, 5/10/13
1 toddler, baby girl on the way in December

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Illinois
Keepcalm
♀ Member
Member # 36234
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a BS who always said I would leave if I was cheated on, I can understand your wife's anger. I am now sliding towards 60, gave up a career at the PO to stay home with the kids, took care of EVERYTHING while he traveled and rose in his career. Worked menial PT jobs (so I was available to when he traveled) when the kids went to school and still work and now take care of my mother who lives with us. AND I AM ANGRY that financially I am trapped with someone who cared nothing for all the sacrifices I made. I am finding it difficult to work past the anger and resentment, especially when I see the special notes and treatment the whore got. So yeah she probably feels trapped like I do.


BS Me 57
WS Him 55
Married 30 yrs
DDay 1/28/2012
I have no idea what is going on

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Virginia
Topic Posts: 16

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