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hello. I read a lot about the fog of affairs. But my wonderful WS had an affair with a woman that lasted nearly 5 years, and they were in a relationship where there was true and deep love. They contacted each other many times and day, did romantic things together and honestly felt deep love, possibly like no other love before.

I asked him the other night if she was like coffee ice cream and he just had to have some. He said, no, she was Very Special Coffee Ice Cream; he'd never done this before. He spoke of it like destiny, like this incredible mutual attraction that neither was able, let alone want to, stop.

It's just like he met the woman of his dreams while he was with me. And now he's back; i'm not sure why, maybe it's because she's married. (and not willing to "risk" her family).

Doesn't sound like a fog to me.

Maybe the fog doesn't apply in all situations, but I would argue that no matter how "clear" he seems when discussing his feelings for this other woman, his relationship with her wasn't based in reality. Did she wash his socks and cook dinner for him after a stressful day with the kids?? Does he pay for her haircuts and clothes? Do they share household chores and other responsibilities? No. Their relationship is built only on the "fun" stuff. That's where the "fog" usually comes in to play - when a WS can't see that their relationship with an AP would be very different if it were based in reality.

In fact, I would argue that your WH is in quite a deep fog... he claims he "shared" some deep, meaningful, once-in-a-lifetime kind of love with this other woman... then why aren't they together?? If she felt about him the same way he does about her, then they would be. The fact that she doesn't want to "risk" her family just means that your WH isn't WORTH the risk to her, and he's too blinded by something (fog) to see it for what it is.

(((theagonyofit)))

I'm not sure I read irony or pain in your post. It sounds as if you've entered your H's frame of reference, and I'm very sorry if you've done that. You deserve a whole lot better.

What does 'fog' mean to you?

To me, it's shorthand for being out of touch with reality. In a world where M means monogamy, WSes are in a fog almost by definition.

Love is built on honesty and integrity. During the A, your H was not honest with you, and he didn't show much integrity, if any, in his relationship with you or with ow. How, then, can he or you or ow or any other human being honestly say he gave any love to you or to ow?

I 'love' coffee ice cream, and I love chocolate. I grew up on Eclipse coffee syrup, and it's coffee milk for me, even though chocolate is my favorite food group. An M isn't coffee anything.

He's still in a fog. There's nothing you can do about that, but you can keep yourself grounded in reality. Your H betrayed you and himself. The idea that she is his great love is just a rationalization.

She doesn't want to give up her family? Your H has only a couple of honest choices. One is to give her up; the other is to give you up and spend his life devoted to his adulterous girlfriend.

BTW, is special coffee ice cream's H aware of his W's A? If not, out her.

I get your agony. Feel it and let it go - then you can thrive.

What do you want to do with your H and your M?

I hear you, I feel the same way. My WH shared personal, intimate thoughts with his AP he never shared with me.

I read in Recon to find hope and see if I think I am strong enough to R, but the more I read, the more it hurts.

I know most people believe affairs can never be about love, but I believe a very small portion can be, and I'm afraid that is what I'm dealing with.

Did she fart in front of him? Did he have to bring her toilet paper while she was on the can with wicked diarrhea? Did she ever have to pop a boil in an uncomfortable spot on your H? Did he watch her spread her legs to expose her golden vjayjay and watch a 9 lb baby come ripping out? Did they have to stay up all night with a sick toddler barfing all over the house? Did they fight over how they were going to pay the electric bill when there's wasn't enough money to pay everything else? Did she get to sit there and watch your H's endearing habits - like picking his ear with the end of your favourite pen or scratch his butt when he had a wedgie? Did he have to run out in the middle of a football game to buy her tampons because "aunt Tilley" came early?

Affairs are fantasy unless they lived together like a married couple for 5 years. The fantasy is the fog. And the fact that he described her as very special coffee ice cream is just unbelievably cruel. YOU are the best ice cream there is - and if he doesn't feel that way about you then FTG. You are second to NO ONE agony!

Now call her BH and let him know his coffee ice cream has been smearing herself all over your husband.

[This message edited by NoraLee at 7:14 PM, May 27th (Monday)]

Now call her BH and let him know his coffee ice cream has been smearing herself all over your husband.

In all seriousness now. I'm asking the same thing as ms521 - if it's so incredible then why aren't these two together?

Don't be fooled Agony, if they haven't decided to be with each other (and the chances of success based on a foundation of lies and deceit is not promising would last anyway), then this is the same run of the mill affair as everyone else's you've read about here on SI, that is, fantasy based, ego-stroking, avoidant of the mundaneness of real life, selfishness and not being a grown up.

Still painful for you though, regardless.

Take care

Agony - what's HE doing to make you feel special? How is he earning his way back into your marriage and your loyal, generous heart?

Double kudos on the excellent summation, NoraLee.

Honestly, I don't care a lick for coffee, but hearing an A described in this way has probably put me off trying 'coffee ice cream' for the rest of my life.

I'll echo what everyone else has said from the perspective of someone who's working his tail off to earn a 'f' in front of his 'title': the man is delusional, living in a world of self-imposed lies, even worse because he's not only hurting you, he's hurting himself (both by going after someone who will never be with him and perpetuating his fantasies day after day).

I'm starting to think As are a form of emotional suicide - in the sense that it's usually poor coping mechanisms and/or inflated expectations of life that lead to the individual opting out.

just like he met the woman of his dreams while he was with me.

lol, rotflmao

love of his life, but did not leave you, she did not leave her bs.

out them to her bs, you can do better than your wso. Decide what you want your life (regardless of wso) to be like this fall, next year. Make plans to move towards the life you want.

He spoke of it like destiny, like this incredible mutual attraction that neither was able, let alone want to, stop.

Well, maybe he's just high.

It sounds like a bunch of ridiculousness. Try not to take it heart, even though this early on, it's hard not to. Ignore most of what he's saying.

Your WH is so full of bull, I wouldn't listen to anything he's saying right now. Like others have said, figure out where you want to be 3 months from now.

It's just like he met the woman of his dreams while he was with me. And now he's back; i'm not sure why, maybe it's because she's married. (and not willing to "risk" her family).

He's back because he sees you as option #2. Until you remove that option, he is going to continue to string you along, while seeing OW. Gather up all your proof, out OW to her BS. That may be enough to push her out of your M.

It's soul destroying to hang around, knowing you are the last option. It's even more so when you know that you are willing to wait for them to decide to pick you.

Hang in there.

I've posted on your other topice: I really don't understand why you have this man living in your basement; when he make it very clear he neither lovers or respects you.

It's a very confusing relationship in my opinion, that is far from healthy. I'm sorry you are dealing with such pain and turmoil.

Are you seeing a therapist?

He moved back in as economic refugee non-paying housemate .

No kids together;

Completely independant as to you two every being a couple again, I would end the free housing. How will you ever know if he is attracted to you or your free basement unless you boot him.

Ask him in writing to move out. Pursue with attorney what it will take to evict him. If you want to rent the basement fine, just find someone else.

Stop asking him about his OW, becasue anything he says is likely to be a lie and designed to manipulate you.

NoraLee

Loved it honey.

Classic!!!

TheAgonyOfIt

What ats said.

If my FWH spouted that crap I'd be in the news tomorrow.

HUGS

Laura

What everyone else has said and

Decide what you want your life (regardless of wso) to be like this fall, next year. Make plans to move towards the life you want.

^^^This times 1000!

Your WH is indeed in his own FOG and has his head so far up his ass he doesn't realize it. Don't allow yourself to be pulled kicking and screaming into his delusion with him. I let my WW do that to me for a bit and it just set me back because I was doubting things I never should have doubted abotu myself. I bought into my WW's line of crap about what she had was special with her married OM coworker. They just "got each other". Eventually I realized what everyone else has already said that they weren't living in reality. It was an escape for them because life seemed to be stuck on "hardcore" difficulty for her and she couldn't cope. If they "got" each other so much then why did neither of them leave their spouses.

The moral of my little tale is you have allowed him to use you as plan B. His AP didn't want him so now he is back with you. Set boundaries now and knock his ass back into reality or YOU will be the one that is miserable. He will likely stay in his delusion until something sufficiently traumatic knocks him out of it. In my case I tried reasoning and all the wrong things instead of setting firm boundaries and 180ing until she woke up or I decided to leave.

Oh yeah my WW had ended the A but she was still in lala oompaloompa land in her head so I filed.

Not trying to push you one way or another just trying to tell you not to put up with that love of my life, everything was extraordinary bullshit your WS is spouting right now. That is right out of the handbook so don't believe it. Kick him back into reality and don't settle for a subpar relationship/M because you are worth more than that. You should 180 him until he wakes up if he wakes up at all.

YOU are the best ice cream there is - and if he doesn't feel that way about you then FTG. You are second to NO ONE agony!

THIS^^^^Believe this^^^^this is the TRUTH!

My dear Agony~

Why are you drinking this shitty koolaid your WH is selling?!?

Please, please listen to the folks here on SI.

1)he claims he "shared" some deep, meaningful, once-in-a-lifetime kind of love with this other woman... then why aren't they together?? If she felt about him the same way he does about her, then they would be. The fact that she doesn't want to "risk" her family just means that your WH isn't WORTH the risk to her...

HELLO!

2 and 3)Affairs are fantasy unless they lived together like a married couple for 5 years. The fantasy is the fog. And the fact that he described her as very special coffee ice cream is just unbelievably cruel...Now call her BH and let him know his coffee ice cream has been smearing herself all over your husband.

Is there a reason you have not outed the A to the BH??

4)He's back because he sees you as option #2. Until you remove that option, he is going to continue to string you along, while seeing OW. Gather up all your proof, out OW to her BS. That may be enough to push her out of your M.

OR both of them out of your life, which might not be so bad...just sayin'.

5)I would end the free housing. How will you ever know if he is attracted to you or your free basement unless you boot him.

OMG! You are offering him free housing while he cruelly waxes on about their rainbow skittle-shitting unicorn farting X-tra Lurrveee?!?!? If they are so in Lurrrvee why doesn't the AP put him up for free?!?

Oh please give him his 30 days notice and kick him to the curb. You don't need this kind of punishment for being a loving, loyal spouse.

6) I really don't understand why you have this man living in your basement; when he make it very clear he neither lovers or respects you.

All of that to say that we really care about you. We don't want to see you in agony if you can make some moves that will help you out of your misery.

I get the pain, but I don't understand your tolerance to the pain he knows he is inflecting on you. Sorry but anyone going on about the love shared with the AP to the BS is either socially retarded or unbelievably cruel.

Don't let yourself be a doormat/martyr to these shinanagens.

180 baby!!! Put on those bitch boots, give him that 30 day notice today, and prepare to kick him to the curb!

[This message edited by Getting to Happy at 3:10 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

He said, no, she was Very Special Coffee Ice Cream

I probably would have gone out and gotten some of that Very Special Coffee Ice Cream and smeared it all over his clothes.

I don't even have the words just fuming for you. I won't even say what my WH would have gotten for that.

by saying she was "very special" coffee ice cream, i dont' think he was trying to be cruel, just trying to say that he hadn't done this before but this time he felt something so powerful.

yeah and keep telling me to get a f**king clue. i'm more than happy to listen. of course i also listen to my therapist who understands the complexitites. i wish she's just tell me to get a grip!

[This message edited by TheAgonyOfIt at 6:25 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

Agony

I don't know your whole story but I would hope to hear more regret and remorse from your H.

WTH? No, explaining how special she was will not ever make you feel better about him, yourself or your marriage.

Does her H know of the affair? If not, he deserves to. Why does she get to get out of this mess unscathed? BS

You need to define what is right for you. Honesty, truth and respect.

(((Gently))))

If OW was still interested would he be back? Maybe it's time to see what's behind door #2.

Don't be an option. You deserve better. And NEVER buy coffee ice cream again.

Hang in there. Keep moving.

[This message edited by 1Faith at 6:49 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

TAOI,

Good Morning,

First, it is not my intent to come across as telling you to "get a f**king clue". If I have, I apologize. It was not my intention. I made many mistakes in the weeks (months) after dday. I only hope to provide perspective from a third party removed by distance and emotion. More than telling a reader what to do, my intent is to offer the reader other perspectives, and to help him or her to step back and see all of the dynamics at play. I too well remember the perceptual narrowing that occurred in the stress and anxiety after my dday, and the feeling if I could just fix this one thing or the other, everything else would be OK.

Next, with the end of the month coming up, this would be a good time to provide written notice he is to be out of your basement by the end of June. I would send it return receipt or registered. Sure, he may now see the light and become the best SO ever, but until he is out and on his own independent, you will never know if you were the true love of his life or just the path of least resistance.

There is more wrong within your WSO than just a bad decision to have a LTA. I suspect that if he does the work and IC to understand he will discover intimacy issues and other personality faults that will require effort and time to address. Until he gets a handle on these things, and you have progressed to acceptance and your own healing, you do not need him in such close proximity.

Finally, you have not told us if you have notified the OW BS. If you have not, please do so. He deserves to know, and it is the best help you can give tou your WSO to help him to maintain NC and move forward with his healing.

--Ats