I have said that I will go to therapy and MC. That is effort toward some sort of end. That is a process to see if we both have it in us to move forward in our marriage, to see if we should still be married, to see if you can forgive. No, I am not being a coward. I was going through the first step to see if our therapists even think, like you said, whether we should even go to MC. You have not made your decision. You cited things like whether we reconcile or don't it's going to be very difficult to move forward. You cited in conversations that you don't even know if you can do the work to reconcile or even want to. Your signs to me have all been related to a separation plan. That is now the space you have put us in. I was still in the first phase. I thought we would move in a direction when we had the answer. When when our emotional status is in a better place to make decisions then we would then take the proper steps to move in whatever that direction would be.
We don't even know what direction we are moving in. You cited that you too, have been unhappy for quite some time. I didn't even know this. You didn't communicate that with me at all. I thought you were alienating me due to my family problems. I thought that was the problem or else I would have asked otherwise. So I still have yet to hear what that even means.
And you going to an attorney, real estate agent, valuation appointment has ALOT to do with our marriage. It is what we have built in our marriage. And you are trying to figure out what your rights are, what money there is for you to move forward WITHOUT ME. That has everything to do with our marriage.
You said: I know I am just preparing myself for whatever direction our relationship goes.---- You don't know what your direction is either. How are we supposed to know this when I have gone to 1 therapy session and when you have gone to 2 since the affair has come out.
It is not how I see it. It is what it is. You are moving forward with a separation plan. What you have said to me in texts shows me that I don't stand a chance in redeeming myself.
I have said that I will go to therapy and MC. That is effort toward some sort of end.
You have said you will go to therapy and MC, but you did not say you wanted to. As you said, you “agreed” to it. I made that decision. You can’t commit to No Contact, so you are really not committed to trying to work it out. I would be looking at this different if you had. This may be an exit affair for you. You are quickly moving the context of your communication with me towards divorce - even though you say it’s me who wants it.
You cited things like whether we reconcile or don't it's going to be very difficult to move forward. You cited in conversations that you don't even know if you can do the work to reconcile or even want to.
I am being real and honest. You damn well know it will be hard for me to forgive you. I never said it was impossible. That is being real.
That is now the space you have put us in.
This is the space YOU have put us in. Making a plan for my future is not wrong and I will not apologize for it. I am in the info gathering stages. I did not file for divorce. You are just seeing how you want to see it and can’t relinquish control. I am not doing things the way you want, but rather the way I want and that is OK.
It does not. Our marriage is about you and me and our relationship with one another. It is not at ALL about the money. Material possessions are not important. Again, making a plan. Never said I was putting the house on the market tomorrow, but IF and WHEN that time comes of does not come, I want to be prepared to move forward and not have to start the whole process then.
It is not how I see it. It is what it is. You are moving forward with a separation plan. What you have said to me in texts shows me that I don't stand a chance in redeeming myself.
You have not showed me yet that you even want to redeem yourself. You won’t commit to trying, you are just weighing your options. If you were seriously trying to redeem yourself, then you would drop the attitude and control and commit to NO contact. Instead you act indignant and say things like “I have a right to privacy”. That is not an option if you want this work.
She is bantering with you to get a reaction. She does not appear remorseful in the least more scared of losing all she has.
That is a consequence of her poor choices.
You can't negotiate with a terrorist and you can make sense of nonsense.
Keep it simple and limit communication at this point.
Good luck. Stay strong.
What she's doing is a classic cheater switcharoo.... Instead of taking the blame, doing NC and being part of the solution she's trying to get you onboard with her "magical" thinking... She's trying to buy time to continue cake eating to keep you as her backup plan...
In her mind, she's lost control and the only way she thinks she can regain it is to keep you towing the "us, we" plan as she needs to reclaim the "you" backup plan...
I'd bet dollars to donuts that when she was in the middle of her A and planning her new world of rainbows and unicorns with the OM she was sure she'd keep you under her thumb...
Her thought process most likely went something like this...
"If" I get caught with the OM, BS won't divorce me! He can't because we've got so many ties together like the business and the house... I've got him over a barrel so fuck him.... I've got that backup plan by the short hairs...
Ok, now that she sees you actually moving forward her backup plan isn't cooperating one damn bit... She really thought you'd be there and so she's bringing up the "us,we" crap...
Keep doing what you're doing... Protecting yourself from her destructive actions and thoughts...
You can't trust her...
I know this... If a person I do business with will cheat on his/her spouse they'll cheat me in a heartbeat...
I think it will be better for you, and more effective, now that you've laid it out, to tell her there is no need for more discussion until she ends the affair. Really no point in "exploring" the potential for the M while she is in another relationship. Then communicate only about business and financial necessities until she indicates she is willing to do so. If she cannot do that, file.
I know this is really tough, but the NC with AP is just non-negotiable. Without that, nothing else can happen.
No more long messages. Only short specific ones about finances/business/property that are absolutely necessary.
I wouldn't discuss the lawyer or accountant any more with her. You have tipped your hand, it would have been to your advantage to pursue that without her knowing. That way, you are exploring your options for YOU and not being questioned what your motives are. She may now try to sabotage your efforts (meet with as many lawyers as she can to prevent them from representing you, file first, take all the money and run, etc). Don't include her in any other plans. She doesn't need to know. She only needs to know if you move money, file, etc and that is after you have the legal blessing of your L and after the fact. If she was truly considering R, she would still try no matter what you did, and she's not.
[This message edited by hathnofury at 12:43 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]
Stick to facts and reality.
Fact is that since it’s a marital home you can’t refuse her access or residence. OK – it IS possible that IF you file you could seek residence while the divorce goes through but since you don’t have kids and there is no physical threat to either of you I doubt it will be granted.
You have also stated that you don’t want the house. That IF this ends in D you are offering her option of buying the house. So why hang onto it? Why not simply allow her to move in and you move out? The collateral in the house might enable you to buy her out of the business IF this ends in D.
I would seriously consider giving your wife (well, at least offering it…) what she is asking for.
Look at what she has been telling you over the years:
You are not meeting her expectations. She isn’t happy with you. She has refused you sex. She has refused to be part of a marriage. She has shown she seeks fulfillment elsewhere.
Look at what she’s telling you now:
If she’s allowed to deal with her infidelity on HER terms she’s willing to get professional help to see if MAYBE she could accept you despite the earlier comments.
Look – nearly EVERY WS here on SI has tried to get to end the affair on “their” terms. It’s like an alcoholic that tries to stop drinking without outside help; it WONT WORK.
You have to remove each and every excuse she has for compromising on how she works on the marriage and leave her naked except for the ONLY excuse there should be: She wants to work on the marriage because she WANTS to.
Get that? Not because divorce would affect the job. Not because you have a neat house as a couple. Not because she can tolerate having sex with you every third month. Not because you to would have to make financial compromises… You have to take each and every one of her excuses and refuse it:
“Yes honey. If we divorce we won’t be friends. It’s not that I don’t want to or that I will be your enemy. It’s just that this is what happens when people divorce. I plan on moving on and creating a new life. Look around; how many people do we know that are good friends with their ex?”
“Yes honey. I don’t think we will be working together. There is too much attachment between us and it’s better for both of us to put distance between us”.
“Yes honey. We will have less spending money when we have to pay for separate houses, groceries and so on, but that’s just what happens.”
I’m going to copy/paste from my first post on your thread:
You care too much for her to constrain her. If she is so uncontent with you then you won’t stand in the way of her leaving. You aren’t happy with it but it beats feeling like you are her warden and DEFINITELY beats sharing her.
That you can accept that there might be things you do that could contribute to her discontent. BUT those things will NEVER justify her decision to have an affair. The affair is totally 100% her bad.
If she wants to work on the marriage then she has to tell you so in a clear and concise way. You won’t force her. She doesn’t have any excuse or reason to remain, nor excuse or reason to prevent her leaving. It’s totally her call.
Remove each and every excuse. Leave her standing there with no other reason for being in the marriage other than she WANTS TO.
nothing will change until you change it. Take your life back.
[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 1:29 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]
"Don't tell me who I'm taking action for. MC isn't taking action for us????????? I've already answered your question in re: to no contact. Drop the no contact agreement. I'm not signing anything unless you hand me a divorce paper."
I guess I will give her what she is asking for. My heart is broken.
So you are saying you will sign it if I serve it? Why do I need to drop the no contact? If you weren't having contact it not be an issue? Right? I thought after 17 years together and 10 years of marriage, the LEAST you could do was to commit to stop talking to your lover while we try to settle our marriage. I see you are unwilling to do that now, so what are we even trying for?
I've already answered your question in re: to no contact. Drop the no contact agreement. I'm not signing anything unless you hand me a divorce paper."
^^This sounds like she's just told you what she wants without coming straight out and saying it. She doesn't want to go NC with her AP. I guess the big question is why. Is it because she's still talking to him? Don't be surprised if she comes out and says, something to the effect of "This divorce is what you wanted." or "I've tried to (fill in anything here) and you couldn't see my efforts." Those see to be classic WS lines.
It may be in your best interest to go NC with her. Maybe tell her that you'll only discuss the business and that's all...
D-Day June 12th 2008, D-Day #2 Sept 28th
D-Day #3 Feb 15th & 16th 2010, D-Day #4 Nov 29th 2010
Right now she's either delusional, or she's playing you for more time while she finalizes her exit strategy. Either way, it's not in your interest to engage with her.
I would suggest you continue IC. When the date for that MC session comes around, attend it. If she shows, fine. If not, fine. Just don't let the MC'er or your WW rugsweep or blame-shift or pull any other bullshit about the A. Know your bottom lines and stick to your minimal requirements for R. Lay them on the table early and don't waver from them. You can't control her, but she can't control you either if you don't let her. Specifically, she can't dictate under what conditions the M continues. Either one of you are legally empowered to pull that plug at any time. Marriages only continue to exist by mutual consent. A NC letter is very, very far from being a ridiculous or unreasonable requirement - and even if it were so, you'd still retain the legal right to end the M. Showing up to MC with good information on how assets would likely be divided in case of D will be beneficial for you. It will show you mean business and can provide factual material to discuss productively if R is not in the cards.
You're doing very well so far. Just try to de-escalate the drama, follow the 180, and keep posting/reading here.
Your actions have clearly revealed her intent.
Continue to gather knowledge and treat her like the untrustworthy stranger that she is.
Logically you must realize you are on the D path. When you have all the knowledge you need on your rights and options, file for D.
You can still call the D off if she chooses to change and become remorseful.
One question, what about the OM's and his BW? Did they R or seperate?
"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife
Read the book "No more Mr Nice Guy"
You really need to. In all Communications with your WW you keep going on the defensive, explaining yourself falling for her manipulation and controling.
You need to snap out of it.
Stop explaining your actions. If anything just state your actions, don't explain them, don't argue them with her. Don't fall into her manipulations and controling.
Her refusing to write a NC letter that "YOU" should mail shows Everything. She either has no plan at all to get back to you or beleive you are week and will allow her back regardless of what she does.
There is a common saying in these circomstances. It goes like this: "If you want to have a chance of getting your WS back you need to be prepared to loose Him/Her"
She is still running the show and in the fog. You need to run the show and you need to snap her out of the fog.
The normal actionplan for this is to actually file for D. If she snaps out you can Always stop the D. Filing will give you the answere you want. Either she snaps out and comes begging back to you or she shows her colors. Either way you will be allowed to move on woth your Life.
Another thought I had is she has been talking with someone who has btdt or an attorney. That's why she's pushing to get back in the house because she foun out she can, probably telling her parents that you are working it out.
Have you tracked her? Her denial for NC is bs. Try to keep communication to a minimum and when she asks why you are doing this simply state that she has done nothing to help you even begin to think R is something you can try, NC AND passwords/access to all phone email is a must. She will most likely go apeshit. Just walk away.
Deep breaths. You can do this. You will get through this.
I learned a breathing technique once to help cope with stress, I want to share it because it may help during your accountant meeting - it has helped me keep my cool under pressure before.
It's very simple. You take one slow, deep breath, and imagine that you are breathing in goodness, peace, self control, composure, health, happiness, whatever you need to breathe in at the moment. When you release your breath, slowly, you imagine that you are breathing out all the tension, anger, stress, hurt, disease, anything that feels out of control, anything you need to breathe out at the moment.
So the basic concept is: Breathe in good, breathe out bad. It can help lower stress (and even blood pressure) if done alone for about 20 mins during quiet times, but in the context of a pressure cooker situation, when anything triggers you to be upset in ANY way, allow yourself the space to breathe in and out, that one deep breath before responding. It takes seconds, but can be a self-control life saver.
I hope it helps you. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I know the first days after discovery are such a whirlwind. Stand up for yourself!! I hope things get better for you.
As others have said, you need to 180 hard and stop these long replies to her utter, cake-eating, gaslighting nonsense. So she is willing to go to MC (probably on your dime) while fucking some other man's dick? This is her "working on us" LOL.
Start looking at things realistically and don't get suckered into this drama and bullshit she's looping you into.
When she checked out of the marriage, she checked out of the marital home AND checked out of you giving a shit. PERIOD. If you feel the need to answer her in anyway, keep it to short but sweet messages such as that: "When YOU decided to check out of the marriage, YOU also decided to check out of the marital home AND from any of my attention."
When she is willing to beg for forgiveness, go NC with confirmed NC letter, go for full transparency (all passwords, emails, accounts, GPS, VAR, etc. etc.), as well as IC/MC, only THEN can R even be SLIGHTLY considered.
Do the 180 friend and protect yourself and start taking care of ONLY yourself. There is no way she is going to come out of her fantasy fog bubble if you play into her dramatics of ludicrous non-NC offerings and her obvious misunderstanding that she jumped on another man's dick so SHE has NO say in any bargaining. SHE is the one that fucked up, so SHE is not in the drivers seat here any more and should be served divorce papers immediately (even if you don't divorce) to make it clear where this is headed if things don't change DRAMATICALLY and IMMEDIATELY.
Good luck friend!