When you believe he's finally getting it, then make your choice between D or R. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to decide now. There's no rush. Just because he doesn't get it right now doesn't mean he won't ever get it. And even if he does eventually get it, it doesn't mean you have to take him back as it might be too late for you.
But now, I ask myself, do I need to move forward alone?
You do need to 180, I wish that I had known how to a few weeks ago. He needs to grow up and you can't raise him anymore.
His mom had him at 16 and partied a lot when his dad left her (cheated on her).
Classic, totally classic and completely predictable. He re-created his childhood pain (trying to get his mom to take care of him so he could be a carefree child while instead, she chose to party it up all the time) in an effort to try to heal that pain. You're not out partying all the time, so you can't heal that pain for him. Little does he know that no one other than himself can either.
Dr. Harville Hendrix deals with this exact phenomena all the time in his books. He calls it IMAGO, and it's talked about on SI very often. H and I have done the IMAGO therapy at home using the books and workbooks and it was incredibly insightful and beneficial to both of us. I highly recommend his books and system to everyone.
I am so sorry you are dealing with such an arse!
Look if you have 4 children and one is a newborn you sure as hell don't need a husband that you have to take care of! MY GOD!! He needs to grow the F up!
Kick him to the street till he wants to take care of you and his own children! Sorry but to me that is just as low as a man can go to say he wants someone to take care of him and he has 4 kids!!!! My head is spinning for you!!
You need a real man! Not a teenager..
I can't wait to see what your counselor does for you... Good luck.
He re-created his childhood pain (trying to get his mom to take care of him so he could be a carefree child while instead, she chose to party it up all the time) in an effort to try to heal that pain.
This is really interesting, thanks.
I was reading in the Healing Library and he is saying some of the things that a remorseful WS would say like "it was a mistake", "I can't believe I ever wanted to be alone" and that he doesn't know how he possibly thought that a relationship with her was going to be something that made him happy. He came by Sunday with donuts and gifts for the kids for their report cards (nothing for me though). Still waiting for my F'n flowers and the supposed card he bought me. He told me yesterday he loves me and always has and he thinks we are doing everything right that we are supposed to be doing. ?? He has answered my questions but still does seem to get frustrated with too much at once. I brought up that we need to talk about the way he let her talk to me at the park that day. I reminded him of what she said and he had a blank look and just said "I try not to remember these things".
So frustrating because these are the things that I've cried over day after day and felt completely disrespected over and he acts like he just wants to forget it happened because it was all just a mistake. I still can't help believe it turned out to be a mistake more because of who she turned out to be. Not because he feels bad he left me with our children. I know he thinks taking care of the baby was nothing for me because I had 3 already, I'm a pro. This is how he sees it. He doesn't realize I had to care for our newborn during this horrible traumatic event and becoming severly depressed with anxiety, going back to work on my own..all that! While he was yes, Anewday, pursuing a relationship that he had no business pursuing. He was busy starting up some romantic fantasy while I breastfed and changed diapers all day. I asked him, how many diapers did you change? How many loads of baby laundry did you do? Pointless, he is selfish.
Anyway, I did buy After the Affair and read half but gave it to him. He's 20 something pages in and he said the beginning is more for you. I said yeah, but it's good for you to see what I am going through.
I am so messed up, I don't know if I'm in R or ready to just NC his ass. I know you people are going to think I am not taking your advice..I wish I read these posts yesterday! But I was intimate with him again yesterday. I snuck out while my mom watched the kids to be with him and I felt so horrible going home. I was thinking OMG, is this how he felt lying to me and sleeping with her and coming home not wanting to deal with me or face me? I felt like a cheap OW.
A part of me thinks this is what we need to do to R? I am just making it easy for him, aren't I? I am not respecting myself enough. I am suppressing my anger and hurt to do it and it's only going to hurt me, I know. I feel so lost. I know his head is still stuck in his ass and he's still withdrawing from her and hurt me and is not the man I want, yet I still do this.
A part of me wants him to know what he missed and what he will be missing if we D. And also kind of "reclaiming" in a sense I guess. I know it's immature but I feel like I'm doing it to get back at her. And him.
[This message edited by Jewlz at 1:53 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]
I know you people are going to think I am not taking your advice
That is all it is...advice. We don't live your life or walk in your shoes.
One of the really great things about this site is that for the most part we aren't judgmental.
Oh, sure we all have opinions, we all have each other's back and we all want what is best for our SI friends.
But in the end. It is your life. Your choices. We are here to pick you up, cheer you on, make you think and give a (((hug))) when needed.
It is still all very new. Although you have been through so so much. It is still new. Each new hurt starts the healing process all over.
Remember the timeline for healing post I sent you? Your feelings will vacillate all over the place for a long, long time.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Try to take one day at a time and follow your instinct. If you think he is truly remorseful, not regretful (BIG difference) then we will be your biggest cheerleaders rooting you on to healthy healing and true reconciliation.
All that have followed your story and gave you advice simply want the best for you and your children.
Take it one day at a time. Tread lightly, verify everything and know we are all here for you.
Better days ahead.
1Faith, you have something there, he is regretful, probably not remorseful. He is alone and just wants some normalcy back. He is "not sure this relationship will give me what I need".
Basically, he was unhappy in order to go to her, she turned out to be a waste of time, but he's still unsure of us. So am I. Time.
He is "not sure this relationship will give me what I need".
The next time he tells you he's not sure your M can give him what he needs, tell him YOU ARE SURE that you're not getting what you need from it and therefore must move forward with your own healing independent from him. And, by "independent from him," you mean no contact except for issues concerning finances and children.
Stop creating a competition between you and OW in your head. She doesn't compare to you and never will. She's probably in the literal backseat with her next victim while her children take the metaphorical backseat to her drunken sexcapades. How can you think she's "won." She was the loser from the start. She didn't "win" your husband - he's not with her - and even if she did "win" him, right now he's not much of a prize. If you really want to "win," you need to come out of this stronger and better than you were before it all happened. The only way I can see that happening, as an outsider looking in, is if you remove yourself from the disaster zone and begin re-building on your own for a while. Both your husband and OW will realize what losers they are when they see the new Jewlz - whether you'll care about what they think at that point is a completely different story.
She didn't "win" your husband - he's not with her - and even if she did "win" him,
We understand that you L your H....or you wouldn't have M him, or had his children, or suffered so much while he left. There is not condemnation for loving, or for wanting to be with him.
You are probably having some HB going on. But you're putting the cart before the horse. By your H's behaviors, he is not in real R...he is just putting on a bandaid so he doesn't have to hurt...so are you, in a sense. If you decide you don't want to R later, you'll feel like an idiot for doing what you are doing right now.
If your tenderness and love are helping him realize how wrong he was about you, and that he was an idiot, and are helping bring him out of the fog, then keep on seeing him.
His not bringing you even small gifts, and saying things that sound like he's still not sure don't seem to be good signs. It seems that he misses the children, but not you except when he wants to get a sexual release.
Please don't lie to your mom. She seems to be such a loving support. You're a grown woman. You don't have to sneak around, and she doesn't deserve to be lied to either. If she doesn't like your going to see your H, then she can reassess her role in your life right now. Allow her that respect.
You take care of yourself, and don't do anything that causes you to have to hang your head in shame. You want to come out of this with your self respect intact.
When he says he tries not to think of the unpleasant things, he sounds like he is trying to make you rug sweep. So what if he doesn't want to think about unpleasant things, if he caused them, and you are still suffering because of them. He sounds regretful, not remorseful. He is slowly getting it, but he has a way to go until he truly gets it.
[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 6:24 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]
The things he's saying to you are emotionally abusive. Telling your wife you'd need to fall in love with her again and are unsure if you can after HE cheated on YOU? Not ok.
I think it's time to go No Contact. Just do it for a week to start. Have your Mom hand the kids off and if he has questions about the kids have him call her. Just do it for one week. It will help you clear your mind, step back, and see everything for what it is. .
I'm in R and my FWH is in IC. A whole sh*tstorm of family issues has come out from his past. The bottom line though is he's ultra needy. There is no person on the face of the earth who can give him the ego stroking he needs. I sure as hell can't. He needs to figure out how to get past that and cope. Your WH needs to do the same, otherwise he'll cheat again.
And I hope this makes you laugh. My FWH has been 100% remorseful. He started buying me flowers. It drove me crazy! I was like "flowers is going to fix this?" One day he came home with them and they were in cellophane and I took them and started swatting him with them. I was yelling "oh my God, stop buying me flowers!!!!" I was actually laughing while I was doing it but I was serious. So the flowers might not help :)
We're all here for you and no one is judging. But I really think a week of NC, spending time enjoying your kids, maybe get a spa treatment - read a good book! Just do something to detach from this and get some rest. Do you have a babysitter? If so maybe go out to lunch with your Mom. Just focus on you for a week. Then come back to this situation and see how you feel. Hugs to you - you need a break.
You're a grown woman. You don't have to sneak around, and she doesn't deserve to be lied to either.
So right, I know, I feel terrible and I plan to talk to her about all of this.
Thanks so much Cliffside, the flower story is great, I did laugh!
Ok, I want to do this and go NC, but how do I do this? Do I just start ignoring him and texts or do I tell him that I need time to myself? Last night, my son called him and he didn't answer or call back but this morning he texted me good morning and then asked if I would consider going away with him and the kids in August!!?? On my way home yesterday also he asked how my day went (second day in a new office, my company moved to a bigger site and there are hundreds more people around, new faces). So I responded "pretty good, fun". So he responds that I know I am the hottest thing here right? I guess to see my response and I said IDK, there is some competition and he came back with "bullshit, ur da shit". Yeah, like a teenager but I think he was just being silly but I replied with "Heads can turn all they want. I'm still married. That actually means something to me."
He destroyed that security we had and I want him to realize that he lost a faithful beautiful woman. He's always been, especially in the beginning of our relationship, very jealous! Even though he never had to be. He never understood that or trusted me because he is a cheat and liar so he thinks like that.
The next time he tells you he's not sure your M can give him what he needs, tell him YOU ARE SURE that you're not getting what you need from it and therefore must move forward with your own healing independent from him.
I love this! I can't wait to use this!
Thanks so much to all! He ropes me in and you all slap me back to reality.
What hurts the most right now is that he was able to fall in love with a woman that had no respect for our marriage. He liked that?! He pursued a woman who knew his pregnant wife and went after him? It's so F'd up. They are both like immature dumb teenagers to me. Falling in love within such a short time. Loving someone you obviously don't know anything about. If he loved her, he would accept the whiskey and partying and everything. He was so sure about her that he brought our children around her so soon, it's so sick and he needs to figure out why he is so emotionally immature. My friend who is a psychologist says, he wants what he wants when he wants it. He tells me that I need to think about me and stop thinking about him. I am learning and it is shocking me just how hard that is for me.
Regarding NC, it would be respectful of you to let him know you want to go NC. You would want to be treated with the same consideration. Let him know the amount of time you need to be NC.
What hurts the most right now is that he was able to fall in love with a woman that had no respect for our marriage. He liked that?! He pursued a woman who knew his pregnant wife and went after him? It's so F'd up. They are both like immature dumb teenagers to me. Falling in love within such a short time. Loving someone you obviously don't know anything about.
That ought to answer your questions. It answered a lot of mine.
Tell him he is to hand the kids off to your Mom (if she's willing) and only contact her about the kids. Tell him not to text you. You don't need to be mean-spirited or anything just say "Look, this has taken a toll on me and I need some time to myself. I need a break".
I am nervous about it but it is the right thing. I feel like it will make him want to reach out to someone else but I know that if he does, he just doesn't want us back bad enough. It's going to be fine for me either way.
PS He is in arrears and I have not gotten any CS still.
He is in arrears and I have not gotten any CS still.
Not that I am trying to give you more to worry about (sorry).
I don't think your H was "in love" with the OW. Honestly, it sounds like he can't love anyone but himself. He just enjoys being chased, taken care of, and having fun. He knows how to take, take, take. But, not how to give.
Honestly, HE wants to fall in love with you again? It should be the other way around. He betrayed you, you should want to fall in love with him.
Maybe, you guys can make it work again. Who really knows. You are a better women than I am. I would have so much resentment, that I could not work through falling in love again.
He speaks so matter-of-factly about the whole A and how he felt about her. I am not sure if that is a male thing, but it seems to me that he feels he was entitled to the A. It seems to me that he is waiting to see if you can live up to what he wants and needs. I would worry that he has another A, when he comes across another women that has her shit together. (just because of the way he talks about the fact that he wanted the A)
From most on here...the WS are shocked at their behavior, feel some disgust in themselves, the A just happened. It was a mistake(hate that word)choice. They don't seem proud of it.
Your H seems woe me...I wanted out...I wanted an A...I just picked the wrong women.
Don't beat yourself up for loving him. You always had...he had time to start falling out of love (though I insist he will never love anyone but himself)with you.
There will come a time when you will no longer feel so "in love". You will always care, you will always love the man you thought he was. But, one day you will realize that you no longer care to chase after him. You are still new in all this. There will come a time when you will think, "Why am I chasing this man? Is he really worth it?" That is when the pain will change. That is when you will feel disgust and possibly contempt. That is when you can really think about what to do. When he begins to do all the chasing. That is when you can sit back and have him win you back. Then start to focus on the weak links in the M.
For now, he is a one way street.
[This message edited by hopefulmother at 11:36 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]
I can hold my head up high and look at myself in the mirror with dignity.
It is almost a year for me, but my fWH is doing everything right. He feels horrible and remorseful.
I still feel indifferent due to the betrayal. I care about him and love him. I am not "in love" and can envision being without him. I am in limbo. I am willing to work on it as long as he is. For now, it is a waiting game.