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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: R roadblocks
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Question  Posted: 7:29 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm having a hard time because WH never brings up the A or shares insights into his behavior. I have lots to say, and he listens and often agrees with my analysis, but it's feeling more and more one sided to me.

He will answer direct questions about the A, but never starts the discussion or volunteers anything.

We went to a wedding on Saturday. It was (of course) triggery for me. We had a two hour drive by ourselves both ways, and WH never brought up the infidelity subject.

I've told him over and over that I need him to show some leadership in our recovery. That I need him to break the ice first because otherwise I can't help but feel like he doesn't want to go there.

So, I squelched my frustration, but snapped on Sunday night and brought it up. He told me that he had been thinking about the A the whole time at the wedding and feeling terrible about it but didn't know what to say. He promised to bring it up in IC on Monday and then we'd talk.

On Monday he came home from work and we were all about the kids until bedtime. Then, I expected him to finally bring it up, but he just talked soccer (we both coach). I was too weary of feeling like his therapist to call him on it.

Then, he wanted sex so I told him I didn't feel like being intimate physically because he is sending the message that he doesn't want to be intimate emotionally.

He insisted that he is willing to talk about the A and surrounding issues anytime and is always ready. Sigh. I told him again that to me that sounds like "blah blah blah" until he shows me by actually bringing up the discussion and having something to say.

So then he felt awful, and said he's a failure at R in addition to all the horrible things he's done, and that I don't understand how messed up he is from CA. He feels so embarrassed etc. Pity party.

At least this is helping me realize how the A was not about the marriage or me. This man is still a child in many ways. I am tired of being wiser and stronger than my husband! I do have hope that he'll be an equal partner someday . . .

What do you guys think? Am I being too hard on this guy who is just now facing the fact that he was emotionally and physically abused and abandoned by both of his parents?

Does he need an new IC? How could he go to the IC with this specific problem and then come home and not address it with me? For the amount of money we're spending, you'd think he'd at least have some practical opening sentences: "So, it must have been hard to go to a wedding."

He's done all the initial R work: Read both Helping Your Spouse Heal and Not Just Friends. NC, transparent, no TT.

Ideas?


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are about 18 months out. Up until very recently I got little or no proactive work from fWS. She was very compliant with any communication or any other requests. This caused so many arguments. I wanted to see effort to feel like I was worth it to her

She is still not taking the lead. I just don't think it is her personality. She has taken her own path to healing and it shows. Just because it isnt happening my way doesn't mean it isn't happening.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2647 | Registered: Aug 2012
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can only say that my fWH never brings up the "past", as he calls it. He is so ashamed and humiliated that he would rather never think of it.

That said, he does talk to me in depth after his IC and will bring up when we need to communicate better or work through an issue. He is really trying not to withdraw, and instead will insist on my remaining engaged until I feel safe. He will go to MC anytime.

I settle for him being willing to talk when I want to. But I do need to remind him not to tell me to focus on the present ( that chaps me).

I must say the "pity party" would annoy me, but we really can't understand. Just like they can't understand what hell we are going through.

I will guess that you are wiser and stronger partly because your H is still partly a damaged child, and his development has been stunted. My IC thinks that my H has grown into a teenager emotionally, but still has a long way to go.

My H was complaining after MC about how he was always the one apologizing ( nonaffair related) and I reminded him that I learned about emotional intimacy and he had not. That he was going to be getting it wrong more for awhile. It was not 50/50. He had to agree.

I guess I'm saying I would cut him a little slack! Not a lot, but a little!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1765 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
shortee126
♀ Member
Member # 35803
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I often feel the same way about my WH. I often bring up the affair to pick it a part and make sense of it all to me in my head. He will never bring it up and when I have asked him in the past why he does not bring it up he explains that he is just trying to focus on moving forward together. He does answer all of my questions even if it could be painful. He also explained that when he does think about it he feels really bad about what he has done to his family and feels terrible about the choices he has made. This is all good however, it does not help for me to feel as if he is doing any self work.
Are you in MC where you could bring this up with a neutral person that may be able to bring some light on the subject? I some times things H will not bring it up because he knows how damaging this whole thing has been to me and bringing it up would only hurt me further.
I like what Chico says that just because it is not happening the way that we expect it does not mean that it is not happening.
I can see the changes that H has made but I also some times feel that we take steps back some times.
I think that it is very brave of you to go to a wedding! I do not think that I would be able to have gone to a wedding at this point in our recovery. Sending you big hugs!!!!


BS- 35
WS-34
married 11 years together 17
DD- 5/27/12
He walked out on me and the girls 5/26/12
Recovery started 9/15/12

Hoping for Serenity, Courage, and Wisdom!!!!


Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: New York
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey SG: My H does not bring up the A either but he does answer all questions, and listens intently when I comment.

The other day he said something revealing and I said, "THERE! Great! I NEED to hear stuff like that bc I didn't know you were there in your head."

He is being remorseful, loving, attentive, and he says I am sorry, tells me its just us and that he is repulsed by his behavior. But he does not bring it up.

I think 6m from D-Day he is completely stunned by what he did and is struggling to figure it out.

I just asked him if he would join SI or at least read some threads. I would chose a topic to discuss and he would choose one to go over. He agreed.

My IC said that I will have to be ready that he may not be on side with my take on a subject and just to be sure that I can handle that. She said, "it might be clear to you and you might want him to see it as you do, but he may not and you will need to accept/respect that." Good point Doc.

[This message edited by LA44 at 8:31 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She has taken her own path to healing and it shows. Just because it isnt happening my way doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Thank you, Chico. You're right . . . my way isn't the only way. WH is just so competent in his career and absolutely a leader in his field. I forget that he's not an experienced expert in relationships!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, June 4th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is so ashamed and humiliated that he would rather never think of it.

catlover, this is my WH, too. I feel like his level of embarrassment and shame isn't healthy for him . . . maybe he could bring up those feelings in IC.

He is really trying not to withdraw

WH kept saying that last night . . . that he is trying so hard not to run away from this. That he has always denied or suppressed negative things.

I will guess that you are wiser and stronger partly because your H is still partly a damaged child, and his development has been stunted.

You're right. I'm so impatient! It's like demanding that a child do something that's not developmentally appropriate. I think I could challenge him without rushing him . . .

I learned about emotional intimacy and he had not.

That's the heart of it right there. I will cut him an inch more slack as he learns .


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Knowing
♀ Member
Member # 37044
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our biggest obstacle in R was that I thought I was "better" than my fWH. Your "stronger and wiser" comment struck a chord with me.

Just like we resent our fWS' opinions that we should be further along than we are/over it/not bring it up/stay in the present, the WS resents/senses the superior stance we take.

fWH and I had a huge fight recently (ruined date night) about how I can't force my fWH to heal on my schedule and how I was trying to control his process. The nerve! after all he's put me through?... I couldn't believe my ears!

But... Just like your situation, the big stuff is being done IC, MC, reading, NC, transparency, no TT...

I had to really listen to my fWH, listen to what he was saying... Listen as an equal... He wasn't fighting R he was just fighting for his right to heal at his own pace. That's when I realized that I really am co-dependant. (Codependant No More, by Melody Beattie is a good book)


Me: BW, Him: fWH
Together 12 years
My EA (?) 2005-2011
His STA/PA: D-day: 19/09/12
TT: 08/12/12

We are in R.


Posts: 698 | Registered: Oct 2012
UKlady
♀ Member
Member # 39058
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am tired of being wiser and stronger than my husband! I do have hope that he'll be an equal partner someday . . .

I said EXACTLY that to my H last night! We had a really hard day yesterday and I am so relieved to read exactly my thoughts here!

I think our WHs have had a similar A situation sailorgirl and I look for wisdom in your posts. My H is brilliant at the R process so far in as much as NC, transparency and looking after me but now I wonder what the future holds.


Me: BW 45
Him: WH 48
Married: 6 years, together 9 years
D-day: 3 January 2013 - he confessed.
A: June-Dec 2012
No children.

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
brokenniceguy
♂ New Member
Member # 39195
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've told him over and over that I need him to show some leadership in our recovery. That I need him to break the ice first because otherwise I can't help but feel like he doesn't want to go there.

I have the same feeling and have said about the same thing. I'm really becoming aggressive with communicating the need but still left wanting more. Part of me thinks I should have kicked her out (or still should) just to put the ! on the need for leadership in the rebuilding process.

In a recent MC, I came to the realization the reason I need this is because I don't trust her. I trust the A is over, but I don't trust she is honest with her feelings and communication (a LTA and 6 months of TT laid the foundation for that mistrust). If I have to keep asking and poking for action, this trust can't be rebuilt. I've told her it helps me when she initiates conversations on the A and owns what she did with out me having to bring it up.

Still not there, but good to read your post to know others struggle with this too.


Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2013
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's early UK Lady. Hopefully he will get there. My H is 6 months from ME finding out and 18 months since he ended it. But since I found out the fog is clearing...he is opening up more. Like Chicho wrote:
Just because it isnt happening my way doesn't mean it isn't happening.

For now, go by his actions. Remorse? Kindness? Generosity?

Keep talking. Even if you have to initiate it brokenguy. You can also say things like,

I was thinking about this post on the SI site - tell H/W about the post - what do you think about that?

So, yes. While its still you bringing it up the real test is, is she/he willing to go from there? If the answer is NO, then I say you have a real nasty roadblock in your way.

Oops! Didn't mean to QUOTE all that - just the little sentence that Chicho wrote.

[This message edited by LA44 at 10:49 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a Fww and I am also a BS so I am going to come at this from both sides.

As a wayward I can tell you that lifelong patterns don't change overnight, they just don't. It took me a year to just get to the point where I fully realized it was me that was the problem, where I absolutely grasped that idea to my core and became very single minded in changing who I was. I feel it was at that point that I became fully remorseful and could be ok with dealing with my H's pain and not try to deflect it.

As a BS, my H is very CA, he has done tremendous work this past year to work on that. He works with his IC on it, but he has ordered and read a lot of books on it. If your H isn't doing this, I would suggest it. Reading marriage and infidelity books are great but they aren't going to tell him why he has an issue with CA. I can also tell you that my H being here on SI has been one of the things that has helped him the most. His emotional intelligence has grown by quite a lot, he gets things in a way he didn't before.

You can't push along his healing at your pace, but you can request to be let in on the process and I would recommend that. I did it with my H and he has done it with me. Keep asking him to come forward, it is very difficult for someone with CA to do this, it takes practice.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shortee, you asked:

Are you in MC where you could bring this up with a neutral person that may be able to bring some light on the subject?

We were going to MC, but now WH goes by himself for an extra IC session. The C's favorite line is, "You can't make sense out of nonsense." He thinks I should stop questioning WH over and over because the answer is always the same: WH's thinking was disordered. He was panicked and confused. Therefore, he acted in ways that make no sense.

My gut feeling is that peoples' actions do make sense once you gather enough information. So, I'm trying to get WH to help me understand him.

Maybe we need to try an MC who specializes in survivors of child abuse. Is there such a thing?

I think that it is very brave of you to go to a wedding! I do not think that I would be able to have gone to a wedding at this point in our recovery. Sending you big hugs!!!!

Thank you! This was WH's niece's wedding, so it was a must go. Honestly, the part that was the hardest was WH not verbalizing anything about the trigger.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LA44,

The other day he said something revealing

Yes--this is it. I want him to reveal himself to me. I want to understand how he was feeling and what was motivating him. We are so different because his parents damaged him badly, but I still feel like I'm capable of understanding him.

I think 6m from D-Day he is completely stunned by what he did and is struggling to figure it out.

This is my WH, too. The shock wore off faster for me because I had known for a year and a half that something was deeply wrong with him.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Knowing,

Our biggest obstacle in R was that I thought I was "better" than my fWH. Your "stronger and wiser" comment struck a chord with me.

You know, my comment made me uncomfortable, too, because it sounds so superior. I thought about it a lot though, and it's true that emotionally I am stronger than WH. My self-worth is solid and his isn't. I shouldn't have used the word "wiser" though . . . I meant that I have more experience with healthy relationships.

Neither of those things makes me superior. I'm just luckier in my FOO. I'm better at somethings and he's better at others. In fact, when he's not stressed, he's more intuitive than I am, better able to read people, and more patient.

I will be more careful to point out his strengths and avoid thinking that being born into a loving family makes me superior.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKlady,
I'm so grateful to the people of SI for validating my feelings. Infidelity would be so crazy-making if I had to manage it alone.

My WH has really been a model of R. But I still have to feel all these emotions, and he needs to step up more as he grows and gets stronger through books, IC etc.

Best wishes


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It never ceases to amaze me at what I get out of reading in this post! I can totally identify with every one of you! There are so many things to deal with huh?

Since my SAWH saw prostitutes (still don't know when it started) he says he just doesn't remember all the details. He says he just wanted the sex, got it then moved on the next one hoping it would be the one that would fulfill that void in his life. We are having the kind of conversations now that we have never been able to have in the past but, it came at such a tremendous price!

He says he has a hard time looking in the mirror but is really trying to focus on being a better man which in turn should, theoretically, bring us together at some point. Quite honestly, I'm torn about my need for the information and dragging him back to place he wants desperately to forget.

It will never make sense but, hopefully, if we can keep on track, we will learn the things that will help us establish our truths and be where we need to be. I keep telling myself this but, wow...just wow. What a painful journey!


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 762 | Registered: Apr 2013
meplusfour
♀ Member
Member # 38958
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"You can't make sense out of nonsense... WH's thinking was disordered. He was panicked and confused. Therefore, he acted in ways that make no sense

Thank you for this advice. Last night, I was asking WH about what he was thinking at certain times during his A, what his thought processes were and how he was able to reconcile his A with his life with me. WH was surprisingly inarticulate (as he is a lawyer and very good with words) and when he was able to give me an answer, the answer was completely nonsensical. I need to accept that there are some things that will never make sense to me, that will always appear to be irrational and in order to move forward, I will have to let this go.

Thank you again for sharing this.


BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 388 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
Zayda1
♀ Member
Member # 35387
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*sigh * 13 months out and I still can't get WH to be proactive. When I bring up his affair he nods in agreement, answers my questions and looks around or at the floor.

I desperately need to see his emotions. I want him to be proactive. He can't (or wont) and I have asked him over and over again and nothing changes. It is so frustrating when you tell them what you need but they still don't understand.


Married 9 years, together for 11 years
2 children (7 years & 4 years)
Discovery of PA 04/15/12 (It only lasted a "couple of weeks" but it still shattered my world.)

Posts: 468 | Registered: Apr 2012
Topic Posts: 19

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