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User Topic: She needs to "Conquer Men"
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi BrokenBill,

From what you wrote in your posts, your WW sounds very similar to my FWW at dday. With FWW it was control, she liked the feeling of control in relationships with men, and sex was a tool for maintaining that control. She also liked “winning” or being better than the OM’s BS.

She also displays all the signs of a Borderline Personality Disorder except for drugs/drinking,

FWW had 7 of the 9 BPD traits, she was never diagnosed BPD but definitely had the traits. FWW has some knowledge of counseling and mental illness, and was very wary of a BPD diagnosis. After 2+ years of work and IC she is better, but the underlying BPD traits, behaviors, and miss-perceptions are still there. When she is under stress she has a tendency to revert back to her old behaviors and thoughts.

She would rather go to the gym or run or (anything) other than share intimacy, make love, give or receive pleasure.

It was the same for us. Sex was very intense and exciting when we were dating, but soon (weeks) after M sex dropped way off. FWW was afraid of having an emotionally intimate connection, afraid she would loose herself if she let anyone (me) inside her defensive cocoon. I now know that we would do doggy style a lot because she could more easily detach from the act and think about shopping lists or the next day’s activities.

Still, it's disgusting behavior. It's not an excuse.

Agreed, an explanation perhaps, but not an excuse.

There is a part of me that wants to understand, be strong and there for her if she is sick, but am i just throwing myself on her grenade?

Yes. I too had to work through this question. I decided I would stay while she was earnestly working on her issues. I was at a point where I felt safe in the M, and there were reasons not to be in a hurry to D. FWW did accomplish a lot and is a different person in her behaviors and thoughts, but she and the M were still not meeting my needs. Last fall we had plans to separate and D, then she lost her job, so we are still together. She says she wants us to work and I can see her trying, but I do not think she is capable of being as open, honest, emotionally intimate, and sexual as I want a partner to be.

As for her: She is not wanting to own ANY of her shit (fog). In fact she's walking around like she just won the Lotto, big smiles and joyful.

It took FWW 6-7 months to own her A. In the first few months after dday she would tell me that she was glad I found out about her As. My having to forgive her for her As made it easier for her to forgive me for being a crappy H. It was another 4-5 months until she decided she really did want to be M to me, and she started the real work to understand and fix her issues.
Does this kind of person need to be almost forced into IC and MC?

No, you cannot force a person to attend IC and benefit from it. All you can do is decide where your boundaries are, communicate them to your WW, and then enforce them. I mentioned above that it was about a year after dday that FWW decided that she wanted to stay M to me and began to do the work she needed to do. This occurred while I was moved out of the house. FWW had broken an agreed to boundary while visiting her family for a long weekend and when I called her on it she challenged me. When she returned home a few days later I picked her up at the airport, dropped her at the house and left. I had already packed my things.

While I was moved out, FWW experienced being separated, arriving to children’s school events separate and sitting separate, being alone in the house. This is when she decided she did want to stay M to me, and began to work on herself in IC and with books. After a few weeks of her doing this, and some “dating”, I moved back into the house. She worked on her issues for over 2 years. I detached some from her and the M during this time and worked on me. She is now much better and healthier, but our M is more companionship than love for me. She still withdraws and detaches when under stress. Sex is improved, but only 2-3x a month.

IF (big if) your WW does decide to own her issues and try to repair herself and the M it will be a long and difficult journey. BPD types are notoriously resistant to treatment, but there is therapy that works. Do not wait for her. You can “not divorce” if you want while she is working on her issues, but work on yourself during this time. Re-invent yourself. I went back to activities I had given up after M, got in better shape, expanded my social network. While FWW worked on her stuff, I got to acceptance and well along on me healing.

There is no reason to stay with a partner who has mental illness and is not making an effort to treat it. There is no reason to stay with a WS who is not remorseful and working to repair whatever led him or her to having an A.

There is rational for “not divorcing” and working on your stuff for awhile after dday so long as you feel safe in the M. By feeling safe I mean your WS is being transparent enough that you are reasonably confident that NC is holding, and that you health and finances are not at risk.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:28 AM, June 6th (Thursday)]

FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4132 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bill I understand you wanting to give R a go, I also can see this from an outsider, and know that you are heading for a big bad world of hurt, if you try to nice her back to the M.

You need to sit her down, and tell her you are willing to R if she does XYZ, make your demands of R very clear, and also make very clear that should she not choose to do these things, or fake it, and hide her behaviors she is currently engaging in that you are done. Be very calm, and clear on these things.

She wants to think that saying sorry is it, and all is well again? No Don't allow her to rugsweep and minimize. Your wife is sick, and needs some serious IC to deal with issues she has not resolved or even begun to deal with.

Keep putting you first, make sure you are eating and sleeping.

(((and strength ))))

Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8684 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
♂ Member
Member # 36178
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a good one. I wonder how many of the men she had sex with felt "conquered" after they ejaculated?

Me - BH 54 years
Her - WS 46 years
DD - 6/13/11 (2 total that i know of)
DD - 14
DD - 11
In R...The long and Winding Road

Posts: 254 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Ohio
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder how many of the men she had sex with felt "conquered" after they ejaculated?

The OM probably felt conquered by her about as often as she felt like she had been f*cked and pleasured by a "Real Stud" afterwards.

They were both using each other to experience their own projections.

FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4132 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
♀ Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted a response today in your how deep and how rotten thread..
I think it applies here too :/
Please take good care of yourself..

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
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Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In her exact words: "I feel the need to conquer men."

I dont think this is simply an excuse but is getting at some of the reasons of why. You might want to explore if she trying to conquer the OM or is she also trying to conquer you.

I think my WW LTA was partially about control / power in our relationship. The loss of control was one of the first things she expressed following DDay. Being able to keep something a secret from me, "outsmarting me", and having the power to do what she wants in the A gave her power / control. Conquer may just be her word for expressing the power / control that she felt.

BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She needs to conquer men because she cannot conquer herself.

Posts: 6643 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The only man she is conquering is you if you stay with her. This is the exact kind of woman I adamantly advise divorcing.

Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
♀ Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken Bill,

If this state by you means - you believe she's still in "affair mode"....then I really have to ask: Why aren't you kicking her butt to the curb, and seeking a divorce?

I know she's taking this game to another level behind a fake attempt at patching things up.

Many of us - BS as well as WS have endured childhood sexual abuse - and we don't, and never have engaged in infidelity, or adulterous affairs.

Has your wife been diagnosed with BPD by a professional therapist? This is a very distrubing diagnosis - that doesn't respond to treatment in a quick, positive way. Are you prepared to live in a marriage with such a dismal outlook? I do understand trying to live a productive life with a close family member with this diagnosis - and I could not even imagine trying to live a happy productive life with a BPD spouse...especially with a spouse who has already cheated.

I'm sincerely sorry for the pain and turmoil you're going through.

Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.

Posts: 6133 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
♂ Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Epic post by atsenaotie. Listen to him.

Endeavor to persevere.

Posts: 408 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
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