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User Topic: That damn pedestal....
toomanyregrets
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Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH here. No stop sign.

Why do we put you on a pedestal, because it's what we do.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 11:18 AM, June 7th (Friday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

because it's what we do.
why?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's my $.02 - I believe EVERYONE is capable of cheating. EVERYONE. I don't put anything past anybody. It's not that I don't have faith in humanity, it's more that I know, with the utmost certainty, that humans are capable of anything - and as a result, I'm not so shocked when shit happens. So, does that mean if INAB were to cheat on me I wouldn't be hurt? Absolutely not - but being hurt and being completely blindsided and shocked because I put him on a pedestal and made myself believe he would never, ever do something like that are two different things. That's JMHO.

I see it here ALL THE TIME on SI. A BS, hurt, shattered, devastated, knowing full well the consequences of infidelity, goes out and has an RA. This same BS will say "I never thought I would do something like this. Never." Well, when I read posts like that, I say to myself, "I'm not surprised you had an RA" - why? Because this BS is also human - just like their WS. This BS made some of the same mistakes a WS made. This BS isn't perfect and whole. This BS has baggage and FOO and all that shit, just like their WS. The title "BS" does not equal saint. Sorry, it just doesn't. That's just reality and I prefer to live there.

Golden MJ. Hi lady.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5050 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cdnmommy
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Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Why do we put you on a pedestal, because it's what we do.

I'm confused by this as well.

Who wants to be married to someone who is perfect all the time? Who wants to be expected to be perfect all the time?

Even now, I don't see myself as belonging there. I deserve and expect FWH's respect for the amount of effort I have put in to reconciliation. After all, I shouldn't have had to do that and did. But to be held up as some kind of an example of BS perfection? I hope not. I have been through every normal up and down, every second guessing. I have said mean things at times out of anger, when I could have stopped myself. I am no more a shining example of a BS reconciling than I was of a spouse before all of this.

I guess I see putting someone on a pedestal as the opposite of respect. It's a bit disrespectful, actually. It says that there are different expectations for you. It says that you are there because of who you are perceived to be, not because of what you do. It's not something you've earned, and it is completely arbitrary. Whoever puts you there gets to decide the criteria and gets to decide what topples you.

No thanks.

I know I have limitations and I have no choice but to live within them, or figure out how to expand beyond them. I want to be married to someone who accepts me for who I am, not someone who ascribes some kind of status to me.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1741 | Registered: Nov 2010
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks TG. Hey luv!
I guess I see putting someone on a pedestal as the opposite of respect. It's a bit disrespectful, actually. It says that there are different expectations for you. It says that you are there because of who you are perceived to be, not because of what you do. It's not something you've earned, and it is completely arbitrary. Whoever puts you there gets to decide the criteria and gets to decide what topples you.

No thanks.

I know I have limitations and I have no choice but to live within them, or figure out how to expand beyond them. I want to be married to someone who accepts me for who I am, not someone who ascribes some kind of status to me.

and this - IS GOLDEN! Love it! excellent cdnmommy!


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
DixieD
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Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWH was placed on a high moral pedestal by everyone that knew him. I was constantly told by family and friends how lucky I was to have him as a H. He is that nice of a guy! I always felt like I should be grateful (and I was), but felt like others didn't feel he was lucky to have me! Lol

Yes, me too. It made me feel inferior. I bought into the hype but at the same time I didn't believe it. I was torn between thinking he was great and part of me knowing he wasn't that great, yet feeling alone in that assessment.

He also bought into that hype.

being hurt and being completely blindsided and shocked because I put him on a pedestal and made myself believe he would never, ever do something like that are two different things.

Yes, being shocked and blindsided compounded the pain. Unlike a lot of WS who have said they thought they were incapable of cheating, I'm not sure I would have said that about myself. I knew I was capable of a lot of shit for a lot of different reasons. But because of the pedestal, I didn't feel my husband was capable of what I was.

Oddly enough, he felt that I was I'm better than him too. We were both wrong.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
MissesJai
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Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

being shocked and blindsided compounded the pain
yes, very true. That it does.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my Lord,
Wh and I went round and round on this. I remember screaming saying "I don't want to be on the pedestal no more, take me off, I never asked to be on it, it is to much to try to never make a mistake or something you feel is not correct".

He took me off and than had his A. I remember him telling me, "you asked to be taken off".

Its all a mind-fuck game to me. Make someone feel inferior so that they are superior. It is okay for them to do wrong but don't you dare or you will be hit with the rath!!

Damn, I hated that pedestal! I like me on the ground and grounded now with my own sense of worth. Not trying to please WH with every breath of my being.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2777 | Registered: Aug 2011
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, I hated that pedestal!
I hated it once I realized I was put on it. Of course, I had to fall off it first - then I was informed I was on it. I had NO say in the matter and that really pissed me off.
I like me on the ground and grounded now with my own sense of worth. Not trying to please WH with every breath of my being.
I completely get this.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
cpacan
♂ New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The title "BS" does not equal saint.

I never said that, I also said I don't mind people, myself included, being flawed or imperfect, whatever that means. So I largely agree with you.

My point was that you can't justify cheating simply by saying "Hey, I never claimed to be perfect" - I do respect those who acknowledge their faults, weaknesses and mistakes and put an effort into growing and improving instead instead of justifying.

You don't need a pedestal to do that.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
tired girl
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Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My point was that you can't justify cheating simply by saying "Hey, I never claimed to be perfect"

I don't think that was ever even close to the point of this thread.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5050 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
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Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never said that
I didn't say you said that either. Where you got that from, I don't know.
I don't think that was ever even close to the point of this thread.
It's not. Not by a long shot.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
cpacan
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Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think that was ever even close to the point of this thread.

Never mind. My post wasn't directed at OP but the comments following it. It seems I can't explain my point very well, so I'll just leave it at that.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
jb3199
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Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hated it once I realized I was put on it. Of course, I had to fall off it first - then I was informed I was on it.

It depends on how high that pedestal is. And I am not trying to make light of your personal situation.

Is it that wrong to admire your partner? To consider them your better half? Obviously, there is a huge difference between admiration and idolization, but I don't see it being uncommon to think of oneself less than superior....or equal....in a relationship.

I always considered my WW the better person. Like it has been stated earlier, my love for her was able to conceal some of the flaws. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. Now if I was blinded by, or disillusioned in some way, that would be on me. But I wasn't. I simply saw her as someone that that I was happy to be part of, and to even strive toward.

Did she fall any further from my viewpoint when she strayed? Not a chance in Hell---because I couldn't imagine anything worse. Whether she was on a pedestal, or groveling at my feet, that type of fall is immeasurable.

That pedestal that you were put on was only revealed to you after you fell. Again, if I am wrong about your situation, I apologize, but I don't believe that you were held to flawless expectations. If that were the case, you would have fallen long ago for some trivial misstep in life. The pedestal analogy, I believe, is put there in an attempt to show and give some sort of definitive measurement to how much the betrayed were hurt.

I believe that it has a stronger impact(and a way for the betrayed to inflict pain) to say that you were held in an almost divine status---and made dire choices.

Again, these are just my ramblings , but ones that I don't believe are that far-fetched.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it that wrong to admire your partner?

I don't think it's wrong to admire your partner or family member. We admire the people who matter to us, we cherish them. But I think sometimes we're extra harsh for mistakes or differences between people - I don't necessarily mean big things like betrayal, I mean things like "Why are you struggling with that? I thought you would have gotten it already..." whether health issues or not knowing a certain skill or just having a bad day at work or at life. Sometimes that stuff can have happened in your FOO... it can make it hard to feel safe to share your issues or to struggle. Or within marriage - having a certain role as the spouse. I think you can admire your partner for being a great parent or a great cook or good with finances... Things we appreciate. But it's a problem when you put the other person in that role and don't want to be involved, when you make it their job... My H does this where our son is involved. If the slightest thing happens "wrong", he gets panicked or angry and says "you should know stuff like this!", but if I'm sick or struggling, I can't ask for help - because he says that motherhood is my job. For most of our relationship, I put a lot of expectations sexually on him because he was more experienced when we met. I was wrong to do that.

Maybe in this thread, putting someone on a pedestal means as a whole person. Means thinking a person is above mistakes or struggles. So it's surprising when a person has a real problem. I think what's revealing is how we handle it when someone we think highly of is struggling. Do we look down on them? Do we decide that it changes our image of them? Do we feel disappointed personally? For me this brings up a whole lot of thoughts about unhealthy patterns. External validation - both to make sure you're still on the pedestal, and then also the fear of failing everyone else trumping the importance for you of looking for the tools you need in order to recover. Shame - that you couldn't live up to expectations, and therefore you are bad, there is something wrong with you. Not thinking for yourself, not trying to find your own answers, instead trying to give what you think is the right answer or what others want to hear. Multiplying insecurities and a sense to prove things to others. While it's good to have drive to get healthy, you also have to learn how to live healthy in the absence of drama, without necessarily being pushed to whatever direction your life is moving. Can't live waiting for the push off from the pedestal or back up.

I think it's different from admiration. Admiration, you can think well of someone, but your opinion of them isn't drastically decreased if they're struggling. You can appreciate their struggle as human, and it isn't something you take personally. But on a pedestal, means acting that a person has failed and disappointed you rather than themselves.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:14 PM, June 7th (Friday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
wincings_sparkle
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Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My view of the pedestal is a little different.

I crawled up on the "pedestal" all by myself.

I interpreted my H's belief in me, his support of me, his love for me and his devotion to me as him putting me on a pedestal. He didn't put me on a pedestal and when I told him (b/4 the A) that I felt that way, he didn't understand. He would just shrug and do that man grunt non-comment thing.


I came to the conclusion that my low self-esteem caused me to project what I thought I should be onto his support. I put myself on a pedestal trying to live up to my own vision of who I was supposed to be.


Yes, my husband loved and supported me, that is what good spouses do. I, in turn, resented him for that support.


I turned it all around and interpreted his encouragement as sarcasm, his support as condescending, his love and devotion as his duty. I felt like his belief in me, in what I could accomplish, were unattainable goals that I couldn't reach. I felt that he would always be disappointed that I couldn't reach those goals.


I felt like I was constantly trying and not succeeding to be who and what he wanted me to be. I thought that he wanted a wife like his mother. (She really is an awesome lady BTW.) You see, I kept trying to reach the top of the pedestal that I created in my own mind.


Here's that stinking perception and assumption thing.


Don't ever "assume" something, communicate instead. It is the only way to avoid making an "ass" out of "u" and "me".


After D-Day, my BH pointed out that I wasn't on my pedestal (key word "my") anymore. He said that he never saw me on a pedestal before and that he saw me for what I was now and that was lower than gutter trash. (This was a long time ago now, almost 7 years. I pulled myself out of the gutter and rebuilt myself for myself since then.)


The only one denying me the right to be a whole person (not on a pedestal, not some conglomeration of outside expectations)... was myself.


That's just me though. A bit of different perception.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, June 9th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You make a good point, wincings sparkle. At some point, whether the behavior is modeled or not, we choose to be on the pedestal. An important realization, because then we can work harder to climb off and unlearn that tendency.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Unagie
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Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, June 10th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is a different way to think about it and one that makes me think about my own situation. Only thing for me is that he literally said he'd put me on a pedestal or rather he said that I was perfect and could do no wrong. Then he said I was bound to disappoint eventually because who the hell was perfect? I remember thinking and saying that what I'd done was more then disappoint but he waved that off and said he didn't even get why he'd put such unrealistic expectations on me, that the pressure to constantly live up to that isn't something I should have had to deal with. I just wish the realization had been made without my actions being done.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2760 | Registered: Oct 2012
cpacan
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Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 10th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ve been bothered with the outcome of my post in this thread, so I decided to re-read the thread. It seems to me we had different understandings of the word “Pedestal” – you see it as “being viewed as flawless”, I see it as “being met with expectations”, and in the middle I guess there is “being met with unrealistic expectations”. Your explanation of the difference between pedestal and expectations cleared that up for me - I apologize for my misinterpretation of your words.

And by your definition; I don’t believe that I had my wife on a pedestal, it just seems that we had different understandings of the agreement we made and expectations to the relationship we once had.

I don’t know if it’s too much of a thread jack, if it is, just say so, but I have a few questions for you about the expectations you have described so well. I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

From your OP:

Had I been told, I would've jumped my ass off of there in a heartbeat. I don't deserve to be up there. Nobody does. Why? Because we're human. We're flawed. We make mistakes. We will disappoint. We will hurt. We will falter. We will fall and the higher we are, the further we fall, and the harder we land.

Isn’t the psychology in this mindset, that when you expect to disappoint, to hurt people, falter and fall, you are also more likely to do so, than if you aim differently – to not hurt people and fall etc.?

From your explaining post:

Here's my $.02 - I believe EVERYONE is capable of cheating. EVERYONE. I don't put anything past anybody. It's not that I don't have faith in humanity, it's more that I know, with the utmost certainty, that humans are capable of anything - and as a result, I'm not so shocked when shit happens. So, does that mean if INAB were to cheat on me I wouldn't be hurt? Absolutely not - but being hurt and being completely blindsided and shocked because I put him on a pedestal and made myself believe he would never, ever do something like that are two different things.

First; I admit that I was totally blindsided, so go ahead and shoot me. I’ve since been working a lot on myself, my view on the world and the people living in it.

I realize that reality is the way each individual views it – I expected her to have my back, and us to be a team for life, her expectations were a bit different. So I seemed to be a good idea to adjust my expectations, since they were obviously wrong (or too high). In the old marriage, I expected her to be faithful, now I have changed my expectations, so that I now expect her to cheat some time again in the future. I don’t know if it’s tomorrow, in a year, in five years from now, but she’ll probably cheat on me again. I can tell you this much – expecting less hasn’t made things any easier.

While the good thing is that I can prepare myself for the day when it happens, get stronger, get more independent etc. the tradeoff for me is that it’s close to impossible to make any plans for a long term committed future together. Something we used to enjoy doing together in the old days. Mortgage plans, retirement plans, plans for savings, holidays, dreams etc. are literally stuck. These activities were much easier and gave us much more pleasure before when expectations were different.

Second; I agree that everyone is capable of cheating – I’ll go even further and say that it’s easy. It’s very common if you ask around, and to many people; it’s quite “normal”, I get that, I even regularly thought about an RA myself like you mentioned.

But the difference is that I haven’t done it - I also didn’t have an affair when opportunity was right up in my face a few times years ago. Why? It wasn't because I was happy all of the time, and it wasn't because I'm flawless or something like that, I just chose not to. So while I agree on capability, I would say that willingness and choices are different from person to person.

Would you say that it’s pure chance that separates those who choose infidelity from those who don’t? Or does it have something to do with different values and expectations?


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, June 10th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you say that it’s pure chance that separates those who choose infidelity from those who don’t?
No, not at all. It very much has to do with
different values and expectations

When I talk about pedestals, I am referring to the expectation placed on me, by another person, that I am to be without fault, every day, all the time. How is a reasonable, fair expectation? And, what if I have NO IDEA this expectation even exists? Doesn't that set me up to fail?
we choose to be on the pedestal
I disagree. I didn't have a choice. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Topic Posts: 40
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